Feels like ignition

[Meukowi]

Bought this o ring kit and found good fit rings for the needle seat, believe it was nr 4 or 5. also nr 2 was perfect fit for the float assembly 'leg'. however they are NBR, it should endure gasoline and oil, but time will tell.

So i finally got to drive the bike after days of rain, and it feels almost perfect, acclerates good, idle works! Switching to correct main jets  did it, thanks buddha for that. Hope i dont need to open dem carbs anymore for years 🥴

Btw, heard a high KLONK noise in the engine, like metal hits metal hard. It happened only once on startup, nothing happened tho, started up and ran normally.. maybe its just the age

Starter clutch. If it keeps happening - don't wait, that metallic hammering will cause the alternator rotor to disintegrate.
Cool.
Buddha.

okay, so repair or maintenance? never opened starter on a gs. What could have caused wear on starter clutch?

[The Buddha]

okay, so repair or maintenance? never opened starter on a gs. What could have caused wear on starter clutch?

Its crappy quality sort of. Its also not a great design - 3 roller Sprague type - but after mine lasted 40K I cant even truthfully say that, BTW it is also the same part on a 86GSXR 1100 and those also last about as long. If you got 25K+ its pretty much the norm.
Commute bikes that get started a lot have it go sooner. So does using thick as molasses oil - which I certainly did. That issue is why I went back to 10w40.
Cool.
Buddha.

[Meukowi]

okay, so repair or maintenance? never opened starter on a gs. What could have caused wear on starter clutch?

Its crappy quality sort of. Its also not a great design - 3 roller Sprague type - but after mine lasted 40K I cant even truthfully say that, BTW it is also the same part on a 86GSXR 1100 and those also last about as long. If you got 25K+ its pretty much the norm.
Commute bikes that get started a lot have it go sooner. So does using thick as molasses oil - which I certainly did. That issue is why I went back to 10w40.
Cool.
Buddha.

ok.. thought so too.. was about to try 20w50 this summer for maybe smoother gear change, changing asap to 10w40 then.. BTW, did some quick googling about this issue, i copy paste the information i got:

"the problem was caused by the crank speed being too slow on start-up. That is, the relatively slow cranking speed means that the timing of the spark is too advanced, and if ignition occurs too far before TDC, the crankshaft reverses direction and it kicks the starter clutch in the teeth."

I've done the timing advancer in the wiki, might this be a side effect? Probably adjusting the timing to stock, just in case. (never noticed any performance difference anyway) just wanted to  work on my bike.

[The Buddha]

Timing ? hell no. That would be a misfire very easily detectable as a misfire. That clunk on the left side is definitely cos you have some teeth marks on the driven gear and some flat spots on the rollers.
Its not instantly fatal. Run the bike till you hear it next time - left side bottom on the alternator = dead giveaway starter clutch. Ignition is irrelevant.

Cool.
Buddha.

[Meukowi]

Timing ? hell no. That would be a misfire very easily detectable as a misfire. That clunk on the left side is definitely cos you have some teeth marks on the driven gear and some flat spots on the rollers.
Its not instantly fatal. Run the bike till you hear it next time - left side bottom on the alternator = dead giveaway starter clutch. Ignition is irrelevant.

Cool.
Buddha.

ok, i ordered the basic repair kit, pretty expensive (50$) for springs and 3 rollers. Heres the link i found with similar problems that someone got: https://www.theflyingbanana.com/starterclutch.htm

[The Buddha]

It used to be $28 ~15 yrs ago - yea ridiculously overpriced even then. Look at the gear for too much wear and teeth marks etc.
Ideally you should get a new gear as well, but those things I am sure are NLA. See how bad the wear is. It may be fine. Mine was barely useable, I pulled one off a busted one if I recall.
I also did that to a savage - so no idea which one I did what on.
BTW I also made a sliding hammer to pull that rotor off, now lost in the ether of my life.
Cool.
Buddha.

[Meukowi]

well took those crankcase covers off, any ideas to take the bolt from alternator rotor?  the teeths on reducing gears were nice, no problems there.

[Meukowi]

well took those crankcase covers off, any ideas to take the bolt from alternator rotor?  the teeths on reducing gears were nice, no problems there.

nvm.. impact wrench did the job easily, now to take the alternator off for the starter clutch repair..

[The Buddha]

well took those crankcase covers off, any ideas to take the bolt from alternator rotor?  the teeths on reducing gears were nice, no problems there.

nvm.. impact wrench did the job easily, now to take the alternator off for the starter clutch repair..

Used magic to remove the duplicate - but the alternator rotor was what needed a front axle off a kawi Vulcan 750 and a sliding hammer. That axle is a common one - 17mm I think - 1 size larger than the GS IIRC, but the sliding hammer is the important part - look into those dent pullers and see what threads they got (probably some sae crap)
Someone I know (from 10+ yrs ago) had modded a commercial dent puller sliding hammer to get the rotor off - anyone remember who ? And what they did ?

Cool.
Buddha.

[Meukowi]

well took those crankcase covers off, any ideas to take the bolt from alternator rotor?  the teeths on reducing gears were nice, no problems there.

nvm.. impact wrench did the job easily, now to take the alternator off for the starter clutch repair..

Used magic to remove the duplicate - but the alternator rotor was what needed a front axle off a kawi Vulcan 750 and a sliding hammer. That axle is a common one - 17mm I think - 1 size larger than the GS IIRC, but the sliding hammer is the important part - look into those dent pullers and see what threads they got (probably some sae crap)
Someone I know (from 10+ yrs ago) had modded a commercial dent puller sliding hammer to get the rotor off - anyone remember who ? And what they did ?

Cool.
Buddha.

hmm, on sleds during winter i used to put water in the hole, seal the bolt with plumbers tape, and tighten it.. let it be overnight, magic happens.. works with grease too, dont know would it work in this case.
Dont have any hammering tools on hand, probably going to test that 36mm spacer and swingarm axle.

[The Buddha]

LOL water does your work. Good luck 36mm spacer and tighten the bolt ? whats the 36mm spacer going to do.
I don't remember the GS's setup. What's the thread of the bolt that you took off with the impact wrench.

If its much smaller than the axle - you could try a spacer etc and tighten the axle onto the crank with the spacer preventing that direct contact - use a soft metal, not some hard as the dickens chrome vanadium steel or something.

Cool.
Buddha.

[Meukowi]

LOL water does your work. Good luck 36mm spacer and tighten the bolt ? whats the 36mm spacer going to do.
I don't remember the GS's setup. What's the thread of the bolt that you took off with the impact wrench.

If its much smaller than the axle - you could try a spacer etc and tighten the axle onto the crank with the spacer preventing that direct contact - use a soft metal, not some hard as the dickens chrome vanadium steel or something.

Cool.
Buddha.

yeah meant that, haynes manual got that trick, and believe adidasguy has video of it, theres 2 size threads in the crank axle, outer ones for removing the alternator and inner to tighten, the swingarm axle got correct thread size for it, the spacer just pushes the alternator off. or should, have heard that theres been good tight ones.

[The Buddha]

So if you put a penny between the 2 and put the axle in and tightened the thing - you'd push the rotor off the crank ?
I'm not sure I can even remember such a setup, but then again I had a sliding hammer I had made anyway, it comes off easy with my freaking 20lb sliding hammer.
Cool.
Buddha.

[Meukowi]

So if you put a penny between the 2 and put the axle in and tightened the thing - you'd push the rotor off the crank ?
I'm not sure I can even remember such a setup, but then again I had a sliding hammer I had made anyway, it comes off easy with my freaking 20lb sliding hammer.
Cool.
Buddha.

yes, something like that, im sure you can you talked about it in a ~18yr old thread.
Just checked the price for sliding hammers, one 13lb hammer goes for $160, cheap ones at $50 range(4-5lb). Nnnope, not going to spend anymore on my bike, this years budget gone over alrdy after that starter clutch problem. Have to find another way..

[Meukowi]

ok, axle + spacer did the work and some heat ofc. but it doesnt look too bad? maybe the problem isnt there afterall, theres no hit marks etc.

[The Buddha]

Look on the gear where these rollers "bite" onto.
Also pull the rollers, pins and springs - if 1 is broken - that's definitely your problem. If not - well it may still be your problem.
Cool.
Buddha.

[Meukowi]

Look on the gear where these rollers "bite" onto.
Also pull the rollers, pins and springs - if 1 is broken - that's definitely your problem. If not - well it may still be your problem.
Cool.
Buddha.

a little update here, new springs n rollers inside,  a little worried on the alternator, i dont have tool to hold it still for correct fastening torque, so i just impact wrenched it with threadlock.

the paper gasket were a pita to get off, had to sand it down with dremel, nothing really bited onto it. If someone has same problem so theres the solution. One question tho, should i oil the new paper gasket? someone said here that its easier to take off in future, but in my experience it makes the gasket very brittle

[The Buddha]

I usually glue the gasket to the cover. Never heard of oiling it. Use gascacinch (which is rubber cement) or that 3m purple gasket maker stuff.
Cool.
Buddha.

[Meukowi]

So i've got now a 'tick' sound, imo it comes from the right side of engine, and when it ticks (only when cold engine) rpm drops few houndred rpm, sometimes stalls. Any ideas..?

[The Buddha]

So i've got now a 'tick' sound, imo it comes from the right side of engine, and when it ticks (only when cold engine) rpm drops few houndred rpm, sometimes stalls. Any ideas..?

It sounds like its rich - sorry I missed this post. Rich jetting when revved from idle will rev, then drop below the set rpm before coming back up to set rpm. Sometimes it will stall as it drops below the set rpm. You nay have 1 cyl richer than the other. Right likely.
Cool.
Buddha.