LED Headlight Bulbs

[MaxD]

Checking out the LED headlight discussion here, it seems to be a few years old on a subject where the technology is changing and the best practical LED bulbs for the GS500 probably change over time.   

The LED's are over twice as energy efficient as the halogen H4 bulbs (around 25 watts vs 55/60), so they don't load the electrical system as much and let the battery stay at a bit higher charge state.  I've noticed on my bike that if I idle it periodically over the winter to try to keep the carbs cleaned out that just idling with the headlight on actually depletes the battery.   

The issues with just a bulb swap seem to be that the light pattern thrown by an LED can be different than the halogen, so the stock reflector does not always properly focus the light, and that the LED base may be longer and take up more room among the wiring.   

The JP Cycles parts website gives this list of their H4 headlight bulbs, including LED, they claim will fit GS500. 
https://www.jpcycles.com/2001-suzuki-gs500e/headlight-bulbs

They offer 9 different LED bulbs they say fit the GS500 (2001 version on this page), at prices from $35 to $80. 

I was wondering if any of the members have tried any of these particular LED headlight bulbs, and could comment on how they worked out. 

[ShowBizWolf]

I can't remember, do you have an E or an F ?

When I had the stock E headlight on my bike, I loved the "Native H4" bulb from advmonster.com. IIRC Bluesmudge uses a bulb from that site as well in his F (the R3, I think).

I know that both of them aren't listed on their site anymore... but they have newer versions of them. I personally wouldn't hesitate to give one a try if I needed one.
http://stores.advmonster.com/headlight-replacement/

[MaxD]

ShowBiz, thanks for the quick reply.  I have to say that in that picture you just posted, your hair then really did look like Liz Montgomery's.  If they ever need a Samantha look-alike in Vegas, it could be you. 

I checked out the new link you just gave, and they do have an "Native H4R2" at $55, but are currently out of stock.  Is the word "Native" here meant to imply they have done their homework to provide a light pattern similar to the halogen that will work nicely with the stock reflector?

I would certainly pay extra for the right pattern, but it may also be that one of the lower cost ones out of this large set of choices has an even better pattern.  In my business (electronics), it often happens that a part at 10X the price sometimes has worse characteristics for a particular trait. 

My bike is the 2001 "E", which for that year is often just called GS500 with no suffix. 

[ShowBizWolf]

Awe, thank you so much!! Liz has always been a sort of hero to me... always adored her and would have LOVED to have met her.

It says on the site that the Native H4R2 has been superseded by the "Budget H4". In the past when they have improved on another product, I've noticed that they leave the older one listed for a while... and I think it's because of the reviews (which are good).

Not sure about the meaning behind "Native" but I did read up on the site when I was looking at LED bulbs years ago. I found that they specifically set out to create bulbs that would work in a halogen reflector setup.

It's good to know you've got the E headlight bucket. I'd definitely recommend giving that Budget H4 a try... especially for the price!

The only reason I don't still have my Native H4 is because that bulb did not work at all with the gsxr headlight I installed on my GS. It was awful and I was really disappointed... so I sold the Native bulb with my stock E headlight. I'm super curious about the Budget H4 bulb... I'm tempted to buy it and try it out to see if it works better in my gsxr housing than the Native did.

I learned a lot when I was doing all that fussing around with bulbs and headlights and aiming etc!

[MaxD]

Showbiz, for your 2004 GSXR, JP Cycles has several LED replacements for its H7 halogen that they claim will fit.  They are not lighting specialists, but their website is good for filtering parts they claim fit particular bikes.  What they have is at the below link.   

https://www.jpcycles.com/2004-suzuki-gsx-r1000/lights

If you want to ask their advice, their phone number is 800-318-4823.  They have a form on the website to connect up via e-mail. 

ADVmonster is not showing a phone number on their website, but they do give an e-mail and say they do live chat.  So, I'll try to talk directly to them and see what they say. 

It's funny us grown-ups getting so interested in these little details on the bikes.  But...it's fun to get into. 

[ShowBizWolf]

Heyy, thank you for the info!!

I have the H7 spot taken care of (the gsxr housing I have uses 2 bulbs) with a LED bulb from superbrightleds.com. I imagine it's not the best option out there but it works well IMO. It's the H4 spot that I have filled with a regular bulb atm.

The Native bulb didn't work because the gsxr housing threw the light everywhere... made the light scatter like crazy. I have comparison pics from back when I was trying to figure out which bulbs I could use.

ADVmonster got back to me quickly when I had questions in the past... hopefully they are still that fast to reply to people. It sure is fun to get into the little details!

[The Buddha]

Ooooo nice watch this space - a LED conversion into the stock E and 01-02 bucket coming soon - direct fit, no cutting, welding drilling etc needed - with minimal cutting + drilling needed if you want the stock adjustment functional.
Really ... Hard at work ... till china virus bit us in the A$$.

Cool.
Buddha.

[MaxD]

Great Buddha, looking forward to hearing the details on that. 

[The Buddha]

The LED bulbs in the stock headlight bucket really only work in the case of very few bikes. Honda VTX1800 and the fury are the only ones I know of. It needs to have a nicely deep parabolic reflector to work.
There isn't a bucket with a LED assembly I know of on the market, so I am making a bracket to fit a 7" day maker. Those headlights are easily available on ebay and bracket will let you put it in the stock headlight bucket like a stock bulb and fit all the electrical wiring and BS like stock and - basically plug it in, bolt it in and run it. If the adjustment is required for inspection in your state, you'd have to cut that piece out and drill 2 holes in it and bolt it onto the bracket - Let me get a prototype made, and I'll do a production run, but the virus gotta quit first, my machinist isn't taking in new anything and he's running his old orders only, just keeping his shop open after sending all his employees on furlough cos business dropped off a cliff. I am low priority, cos I wont make him the 1000's they'd need months to keep a machine shop in business. Worse yet, the GS is in the other house, so I started on the bolt - same idea different bracket cos its  5.75".
Cool.
Buddha.

[MaxD]

Buddha, it sounds like you want to make that into a real business.  It seems like a promising idea.  That business "Tank Lining Services" I mentioned earlier says that they average 80 tanks a day for their porcelainization service, mostly older bikes.  He said they are working 7 days a week, so they seem to be doing over 25,000 tanks a year.  Most of that same population of bikes would be candidates for an LED headlight upgrade.

If your product was selling for $150 to $250 each depending on bike model, the available market seems to be in the range of $5million per year retail.  Maybe outfits like ADVmonster and JP Cycles would like to feature it on their website, with you selling to them in wholesale volume.  If you are averaging $20 net profit each on that business model, your upper end is $500k a year.  Half that and you are still doing great.     

[The Buddha]

Dude you're talking big $ but its a square piece of steel with 4 "ears" and holes - that's the Yamaha bolt one - The bracket for the Yamaha I'll probably sell for under $25.
The GS bracket I am targeting $20. If its the collar kind - which is a ring type bracket with 4 holes and 1 weld - if the guy says the weld is more $ than cut and bend, I may go to the 4 ear square piece on it as well. Likely $25.

I'm really not doing any real size of business like you're talking about, the reason being, each bike needs a different bracket, the same GS bracket AFAIK - only works on a GS, maybe a Bandit 400, maybe a couple others.
The bolt bracket wont work on my savage even though they have the same size headlight. The savage guys have made a bottom carrier bracket and use that to fit a Harley headlight. In effect fixing the problem by throwing that $200+ at it. In any case, the headlight is off ebay - I'll post links to it when I'm done, I paid $25 or so for it. Bracket should be $20-25 and ship, Lets see how many I can make.

I actually hate those clamp on brackets that will allow you to slap any chit on anything. A lot of people don't care for that bit of slapped up chit look. BTW my bigger problem was that a hard mount (I used a different type of clamp on) blows headlight bulbs, much like if you fit the GS gauges with a hard mount (a lot of katana FE swaps were done that way) you start having gauges rattle themselves to where they flutter and vibrate themselves to death.

Cool.
Buddha.

[MaxD]

OK Buddha, if you get a chance to put up a drawing we could understand more clearly.  But, below are a couple of drop in solutions that may be providing an effective way without any mechanical mods. 

Some of these things are > $200 for higher end bikes.  Some intended "universal" solutions are cheaper.   The below link is for a $90 LED based DOT approved total bucket solution from Amazon. 

https://www.amazon.com/MOVOTOR-Motorcycle-Headlight-Background-Universal/dp/B083YX2J7H/ref=psdc_318323011_t2_B01MS8NK62

Looks pretty nice, three 5-star reviews is a limited review set, don't know off hand how it handles the turn signals. 

Here is a little Youtube review of a couple of H4 LED replacement bulbs, which seem to be designed to work in the existing bucket and reflector, and thus compete with custom solutions like you are considering.   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOVrV-l75-U

He reviews two LED bulbs on a Hawk 250.  The second by DZG is better in terms of both installation and light performance.  It is mechanically compatible with an H4, as the electronics and the cooling fan are in the front of the bulb (inside the reflector).  It just drops in the H4 mounting collar, taking up no extra room or requiring any other mounting steps in the bucket behind the collar.  The Amazon link to this $25 best seller is at:

https://www.amazon.com/DZG-Motorcycle-Headlight-Conversion-Warranty-1/dp/B07BTTFN1S/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=3FJ2RKSHJEYYX&dchild=1&keywords=dzg+h4+motorcycle+led+headlight+bulb&qid=1590437948&sprefix=DZG+%2Caps%2C174&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExM1hJSlFRVjRRV0VLJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwOTMwMDcyQUpJSFUwS1RaMVFTJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA2Mjc4MDgyRjQzUFkwMjE3RExNJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

There are currently 529 reviews of this LED replacement on Amazon, with 75% of them being 5 star.

The main concern I would have is certainty of it fitting.  The total length is 3.73 inches.  The Amazon fitment check here only calls up Suzuki CARS for this specifically motorcycle LED H4 replacement.  DZG does say on the Amazon page that it does not fit the 2001 suzuki intruder 1400, 2008 Suzuki KingQuad, 2007 electra glide, triumph street triple and husqvarna 701 enduro.  DZG says they will advise on if it fits, though I am not immediately able to find their contact info.   There is a detailed physical dimension drawing right on the Amazon page, so disassembling the bucket should allow a reliable dimension check. 

They quote the service life as 30,000 hours, it only burns 50% of the power of the H4 (30 watts) while putting out twice the light, and their "Near 100% H4 drop in compatibility" on both physical fit and light pattern is great product definition.  It's $25 single or a two pack for $40.  If this apparently well working and cheap solution fits the GS500, it may be pretty hard to take a custom solution to the market that involves mechanical mods.

Until looking at this a little more closely, I did not realize how many companies are competing in this LED upgrade business for bikes, cars, jeeps, and trucks.  It is probably tens of millions of dollars in annual sales, maybe over $100mil, probably directly employing 20 to 50 engineers working on good solutions. That makes it pretty hard for a little guy to penetrate. 

[Bluesmudge]

Keep in mind; a lot of these LED companies are just re-sellers of mass produced Chinese products .

ADVmonster for example is just reselling stuff you can get for 1/10 the price on Alibaba direct from China if you are willing to do a volume order. ADVmonster does have nice wiring harnesses but the lights themselves can be had all over Ebay, Amazon, etc. I have purchased through ADVmonster.com with the mindset that the premium $ they are  charging for a cheap product is in exchange for them weeding through the utter crap to find the halfway decent crap and then putting it all in one place in English with a halfway decent customer experience.

I like my H4 LED bulb from ADVmonster but wish it was closer to halogen in color temperature. It has that super-blue "I monkeyed with my bike" look. I only run the LED headlight bulb (plus everything else LED) so I have enough power for LED driving lights and heated grips.

The other issue is that we have no way to know if these cheap lights meet DOT standards even if they claim to. Like how some motorcycle gear manufacturers got caught saying their gear was CE approved when it was really just the color dye fastness meeting CE approval and then slapping a big CE tag in the garnet so the purchaser assumes its been safety tested. No adherence to the CE impact ratings for armor or abrasion resistance.
Maybe some aspect of that light meets some DOT standards but The United States Department of Transportation is not an approval agency and will not approve products. In the past, USDOT has sternly warned manufacturers that claim that their products are "DOT approved;" the correct language is "DOT compliant." When a product says DOT approved you should already be suspicious.

I would feel more comfortable with "SAE Certified" products as I imagine SAE are more likely to go after products that have unlicensed use of that certification.

[The Buddha]

A drop in H4 "LED" will work, but not give you better illumination. The GS'es reflector is the wrong shape. It may be brighter in spots, but its likely to leave a few darker spots where the stock one lit up a little better, and that missing spot may ne really important. Brightness and location count.

Those clamp on with ears and whatever and those oblongoidpentagon shape shells look stupid and those ears looks retarded and cobbled in someone's backyard. Right up there with side mount license plate types.

Rest assured, I will not be selling any more than maybe 3 of these brackets cos I would piss off any one who might want to buy these and would rather buy the clamp on ears and side mount license plates as a package from someone willing to flatter them.

But I will not fit one of those on my bike regardless on make/model, and the headlight I would fit will have the proper dispersion pattern, have full adjustability and will look like it came from the factory that way.

I have an LED headlight on my bolt - yes I didn't use those retarded ears and it fits like its stock and is adjustable too - except its a poor dispersion beam with a poor cut line - it will illuminate a 1' wide spot a mile away, but not the car's a$$ end 30 ' from you. You really have to have the correct dispersion pattern as well as higher brightness. I cant show you, because I don't have GS and I don't have bracket - I am still working on them.
Its a piece of flat steel with a few bends in it. If it costs over $20 - you'd make it. If you're paying me for the idea - well I'll post a picture of it - you can just rip off the picture and make your own. The light itself will be a ebay link for a Chinese headlight. I am not making the headlight - I am just making it fit a GS like the stock light does.
I'm more into it for the creativity and the idea that we can have a better solution. If my guy makes a few of these and makes enough $ to want to work for me another item, I'll be fine.

Cool.
Buddha.

[MaxD]

Blue, sure some of it is junk and some can be good.  I've got a $400 Chinese oscilloscope in my lab that has served me well for 5 years and that is better than anything American until you get up to 3X the price.  On the other hand, I read a story a year or two ago about the management of a Chinese company being imprisoned because they were using wood sawdust as filler in baby food, and some babies were starving.  That's why I am trying to figure out what might be a good solution here.  I'd be willing to pay a generous price for a solid solution, but it seems quite hard to uncover. 

Buddha, when you say your bracket is for a Chinese headlight, does that mean:

1.  Bulb and reflector that go in stock bucket, or
2.  Bulb, reflector, and new bucket that replace stock light.

When convenient for you, when you have one ready I'd like to see a drawing of the metal bracket and how that works, and also get the identity of the headlight you plan on so I could read about it. 

I went and read the negative reviews on the DZG, the 18% out of 529 that are less than 4 stars, and they are mostly early failures and some complaints about not fitting.  There are also a few complaining about the light "fogging up" the clear cover (probably water getting in).  There are very few that complaints about the light pattern--just a couple that say the high beam is not that different than the low beam.  The white color seems to be universally liked. 

It seems DZG has a good concept here, with drop in compatibility and a light pattern and light color that are well liked.  But, they are having some quality problems.  I like the idea--just wish they would put $10 more quality in it so that the failure rate was much lower.  Also, though they say they will help you with checking fit for particular bikes, I can't find their contact data. 

I posted the question on Amazon about whether it fits the GS500, and also posted a separate question asking what is going on with the quick failures.  DZG does directly answer a lot of these questions, so maybe they will these.   

[The Buddha]

The LED is sealed beam. Its got a heat sink and it replaces the stock reflector - Its similar to a daymaker. Look up 7" daymaker. I'll post a link if you cant find it.
Cool.
Buddha.

[The Buddha]

Oh crap - the good news first - The led assembly leaves a lot more room inside the stock bucket so its not as hard to cram all the electrical crap back in.
Bad news - the collar idea wont work. It has to be a flat plate with ears bent in it and I need an extra ear for the adjuster - only option now.
Cool.
Buddha.

[The Buddha]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/333528641360?_trksid=p2380057.m570.l5999&_trkparms=gh1g%3DI333528641360.N36.S1.typeWATCH_ITEM_ENDING_SOON.R1.TR2

That's the one I bought.
Cool.
Buddha.

[MaxD]

That seems to say 280 watts.  If that's right, does that mean equivalent to 280 watts of halogen light power (about 70 watts DC), or it actually draws 280 watts of DC power?

If its 280 watts DC, that would seem to take some electrical system upgrades on a system designed to support a 55/60 watt headlight.  Even if its 280 watts equivalent, that would seem to be on the edge of the stock electrical system ability (assuming the system is near capacity stock). 

In any case, it's sure lighting up the road to strap up one of these Jeep lights. 

[The Buddha]

LOL, if the lumens was converted to halogen equivalents its some ridiculous number like that. BTW I suspect its for the pair and maybe even running high beam. But 280 watt draw from the chintzy wiring it has is going to make the thing a smouldering mess in no time flat. I suspect its of the order of 20-30 watts of actual draw. 2-3 amps.

The impressive thing is - how cool it looks when not in use, as well as the perfect V shaped pattern with that clear cut.

My goal is to let the light shine (no pun intended) and have it with all the functions as stock. Hopefully I get some movement shortly.

Cool.
Buddha.