Simple Shock Question (I hope)

[profile_deleted]

So I do try to utilize the previous forum posts and the Wiki to answer these questions but after poking around I can't seem to find a definitive answer so here goes. 

I'm looking to raise the back of the bike by one inch (to match the raised front on the Scrambler project).  I want the extra clearance and to maintain the stock geometry.  I also want a bolt-on option that won't require a bunch of hardware switching, modification, etc...  It seemed at first like a Katana shock (not sure of the compatible model years though) was an easy solution but a few posts seemed to suggest that such was not the case. 

So... can anyone who has done it confirm definitively that it is a bolt-on option that will do the trick?

Alternatively, any other solutions (not suggestions) for achieving this with the stock shock?  Yes, shorter dog bones would work (in theory) but again, where to get ones that are compatible?

Also, I don't want a remote reservoir (sorry, another parameter...lol)

Thanks in advance for your collective wisdom and guidance!   

B.   

[The Buddha]

Katana 600 shocks between 89 and 96 and 750 shocks from the same period do this in the simplest way possible.
750 ones have a cable with a plunger of sorts to get the rebound dial adjusted, but you can toss that bracket and cable and use the thumb wheel.

Believe it or not - This puppy is $7 and $14 shipping and looks like it works - so maybe even the 97 and later does -
https://www.ebay.com/i/401817976841?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=401817976841&targetid=883666369579&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9010442&poi=&campaignid=9426322714&mkgroupid=95066757065&rlsatarget=aud-622524042478:pla-883666369579&abcId=1141016&merchantid=131375965&gclid=CjwKCAjw26H3BRB2EiwAy32zhW5tPdoaS2U29uyTTsom8kzQ-mmpBCxsOfkiEihlr-1zeBVnFAKphxoCIIwQAvD_BwE

What you need to look for. Rebound adjuster on top - that's what separates a Kat from a say GS500 shock.
The clevise on the bottom is deep - like that one in the pic - if not, you need to shave your knuckle unless you had an 89 with the cast knuckle.

98 also seems to look the same - essentially you find almost any Suzuki that has that form. I ran a GSXR 750 pre remote shock on mine. Same deal except it was upside down with the rebound dial in the clevise. Bandit 1200, RF600/900 and a few others also fit the bill. But katana crap is literally the cheapest you'd find I'm sure.

Super clean 92 -
https://www.ebay.com/i/273636629861?rt=nc&_trkparms=aid%3D1110001%26algo%3DSPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20160908110712%26meid%3D2b988197fc9f472aaaea7e8a70922a47%26pid%3D100677%26rk%3D12%26rkt%3D30%26mehot%3Dnone%26sd%3D392547502256%26itm%3D273636629861%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2386202%26algv%3DDefault

These things aint going for much at all. And a near perfect shock if you ask me and that was when I used to be 250+lb
Also remember it barely stances higher when unloaded. Much of the increased ride height is when loaded as compared to the stock. Yea piggy back is BS if you ask me, remote reservoir ones are too much, like those 89-95 GSXR 750. Freaking jack hammering your spine.

Cool.
Buddha.

[ShowBizWolf]

The Katana shock swap is one I haven't done (mainly because of my lack of weight)... so I can't personally confirm it will do what the wiki says it will do.

I have 1" raising links that I've been wanting to try out with the stock shock some day (I had them installed for a short time with the R6 shock I tried out). I got the idea for the links + the stock shock from iamhiding's build thread here: http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=69916.0

They aren't too hard to find, I bought mine on eBay. Certainly a "bolt-on" option! Here's an example:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/B-Jack-Up-Kit-25mm-Dog-Bones-Suspension-Linkages-for-GS500E-GSF500F/223098198460?hash=item33f1b059bc:g:sFMAAOSwGUpcB6EM

Hope that helps!

[profile_deleted]

That is awesome. You guys both rock the house! It's funny, I already had a couple of those shocks in my watchlist...  just wanted to confirm fit. SBW, I am baffled as to why those dog bones even exist... lol. I've always been familiar with the idea of lowering the bike for shorter riders but had no idea there would actually be a bolt on aftermarket part to raise the back of the bike. Since that seems like the easiest fit I'm going to pick up a set of those as well as a shock. Then at least I have the option to do either.

Again, thank you both for your quick response and expertise. This just demonstrates how useful and awesome this forum is!   

B.

[The Buddha]

In all these cases watch the knuckle vs clevise clearance, and especially if changing dogbones.
BTW if you find a cast katana knuckle - and it says 33c on it - Its likely the same as the 89 GS one.
Cool.
Srinath.

[mr72]

I have a katana shock like this. I put 0.90 kg/mm springs up front with the forks lowered flush with the top of the actual triple. Whole bike is raised about an inch or so not counting the bigger tires, and much less sag so basically no bottoming even back when I was 235lb. Works great.

[profile_deleted]

I have a katana shock like this. I put 0.90 kg/mm springs up front with the forks lowered flush with the top of the actual triple. Whole bike is raised about an inch or so not counting the bigger tires, and much less sag so basically no bottoming even back when I was 235lb. Works great.

Perfect.  That is exactly what I am doing... even down to the tires.  Can't beat real world intel!

B. 

[mr72]

Fair warning, the 150/70 rear and 120/70 front shinko 705 tires coupled with the higher center of gravity make the handling very interesting. Almost unstable feeling even with tire pressure dialed in (41/38). But it feels the same in a water crossing or gravel as it does on pavement.

[profile_deleted]

Fair warning, the 150/70 rear and 120/70 front shinko 705 tires coupled with the higher center of gravity make the handling very interesting. Almost unstable feeling even with tire pressure dialed in (41/38). But it feels the same in a water crossing or gravel as it does on pavement.

"Interesting" is a concerning choice of words... lol.

Guess I'll find out soon.

B.

[The Buddha]

I have the Kat shock, I have a Kat 600 FE and am running 150/60 I think on 4" rear on a Bandit 400 rim and its running a Michelin some or other. No interesting nothing - in fact that setup is the best handling GS I have ever run.
And I once had a Lindemann FE and the GSXR first gen shock on that bike with 140 rear of a lot of different makes. That was the most precise thought to steering bike I had ever ridden before I got the MZ. The current GS will kill my MZ - but I also have the MZ on a as it came to me basis not as I built it.
How much that matters No idea.

Cool.
Buddha.

[mr72]

The Shinko 705 are reputed to be more round-profile and therefore more "fall into turns" or as I'd call it very sensitive to tiny lean inputs than other tires of the same size. By going with 150 rear and 120 front it makes this even worse on the GS500 wheels. I seriously considered tube type 130/80 and 100/80 but didn't want tubes. Now I think I would have been better off. When I first mounted them I put them at 33F/36R pressure and it was almost scary to ride. It was borderline unstable. Now I think I have it at 38F/41R and it's much better, but still very different.

Anyway, before I had a 140/70 Michelin Pilot Street Radial on the rear 3.5" wheel and it was infinitely more stable. In fact I put that same tire along with the Pirelli Sport Demon 110/70 front tire from my GS right onto my Triumph and the thing handles gorgeously. It is astronomically different between the two bikes.

The tires stick fine and it corners fine but coupled with the higher CoG it's not at all confidence inspiring on thee road. It is however extremely maneuverable at very low speeds. But once you are going 25+mph it just requires you to ignore the unstable feeling and trust the tires. It's a really crazy feeling riding it.

[The Buddha]

Yea Mine are Michelin pilots but I'm sure its a 150-60/17 or something - on the 4" wheel it sits nice and does not pinch at all. Likely 140 on the 3.5 is the same way. 4" was made to take up to 160 IIRC. Suzuki put that on a bandit 400 which they made for 1 year and neglected the GS before and after it.
Cool.
Buddha.

[profile_deleted]

In all these cases watch the knuckle vs clevise clearance, and especially if changing dogbones.
BTW if you find a cast katana knuckle - and it says 33c on it - Its likely the same as the 89 GS one.
Cool.
Srinath.

So does that mean I can "upgrade" my steel knuckle on a 2004 GS with one from an '89?  Not that it is a big deal, but that is some pretty ugly looking linkage on the newer bikes.

[Bluesmudge]

Yes, you can put the much nicer looking '89 knuckle on any GS500 including the '04+ F models.
I recall that the '89 knuckle shape causes problems with the R6 shock (another common upgrade for riders under 190 pounds) but should be fine for the Katana shock.

Btw, I have the Katana 600 Shock (pounder coated white by The Buddha years ago. Still going strong) and really like it. Bike sits only ~1/4" higher unweighted but a full inch higher with me on the bike. Good cheap upgrade for the GS500. I paired it with .90 sonic springs and it seems perfect for me at 195 pounds + full set of hard luggage. The bike also handles heavy loads like passengers and camping gear without any drama.

[mr72]

yeah I'm also on the katana shock, 0.90 Sonic springs and 195 lb. That's how Suzuki should have made this bike for the typical American male rider imho.

[profile_deleted]

OK, so then the next logical question seems to be can you use the katana knuckle on the GS?

[Bluesmudge]

Buddha seems to think so. Odds are it would fit since the bearing ID must be the same size. What would it buy you though? Is it also fancy looking?

[profile_deleted]

Buddha seems to think so. Odds are it would fit since the bearing ID must be the same size. What would it buy you though? Is it also fancy looking?

I was more concerned about the geometry of the knuckle when it comes to fit.  The katana is aluminum vs. the steel one on the GS so better looking and no rust.  I bought a Katana shock off of eBay to do the upgrade (hasn't arrived yet) but the seller included the knuckle as well, so I was hopeful that I could use it too.  I guess I will find out next week.

B. 

[The Buddha]

The GS 89 knuckle is called a 33c casting - I am not sure if the katana knuckle is also 33c. If it is, well, its the same part.
The Kat 600/750 and the GS had a lot of overlap in the rear end, wheel, and didn't they have the same SA as well as a few other parts ? Brakes, arm etc.

Cool.
Buddha.

[The Buddha]

Sorry neither first gen nor second gen katana knuckle is a 33c. But the shocks are all deep clevise on the 600 - so the steel knuckle will fit that without mods.
Cool.
Buddha.