High Speed Riding Skills

[Hi-T]

I have finished the bike.  Last weekend I swapped in the Progressive springs, katana rear shock and put on some new radials- HOLY CRAP!!  There is a huge difference in handling!  It used to be that I had to fight the bike to take high speed freeway bends- now I have to stop the bike from turning too sharply and running of the road.  

Basically it feels like I can ride the bike harder.  But before I get too crazy, I'd like some info on handling the bike at higher speeds- especially where and when to shift my weight on the bike in taking turns.

Are there any GOOD books on the subject?  Are there any recommended drills that I can try to get a better feel for my limits.  I've learned alot from first hand experience.  But with some skills I'd rather learn and practice off someone else's first hand experiences.

Later

[octane]

Pick up Keith Code's, "A Twist of the Wrist". There are 2 volumes covering different aspects. Both are good.

[richard]

Out of curiosity, how much of that do you attribute to the suspension and how much to the radials?

I have done the progressive mod (with fork oil 15w change) and put on a katana rear shock (as probabaly everyone remembers  :x ), but when Kerry and I got the wrench out I also figured out I'd been riding with low tire pressure and filled that.  Now I feel like my bike turns far nicer than it used to, but I can't tell how much is the suspension and how much is the air pressure that I'm not used to.

Do Radials by themselves make a significant difference for riding feel?  I think I'll probably try some after my front tire wears out, but I'm curious.

[Frost]

what kind of radials do you have on?

[aslam]

Proficient Motorcycling by Hough

ASLAM.

[Hi-T]

The rear is an Avon 46 (Azaro? or sumthin) 140/80 zr17.
The front is a Pirelli Dragon 110/70 zr17.

Now, the suspension makes a huge difference in how the road feels and I don't have to worry about the bike bouncing, like it used to, over bumps and such.  I don't feel the bike dive under braking and there's no more "clunk" when I hit gutters or small pot holes.... but the tires...

You can feel a big difference in how they stick to the road- I used to be afraid of leaning because the farther on the sides I got the more the bike felt like it would wash out.  The bike also leans much easier- the shape of the tire is more evenly rounded and the tire "feels" stronger on it's side than my old bias/ply.

The rear radial is also a little taller and wider (and you notice it the second you get on the bike) (my center stand is almost useless) - couple that with the Kat shock and the riding position has chaged and feels more aggressive.

I give alot of credit to the tires- I trust them more but not 'cause I spent more money on them.  I can feel a definate difference.  I spent 160 for both (including shipping and mounting).

Rember Richard that you don't want to mix radials with bias-ply.  That's why that tire I gave you had so much tread left... and if you ever want to try my ride let me know.

[richard]

I would love to give it a try.  Tonight I will be putting a new BT45 on the back of mine, Kerry having already given me the warning about mixing radial/bias-ply. =]  I won't be buying new tires until these wear out (another 10,000 miles or so) but I am definitely curious as to the difference in "feel".  since it sounds like other than the tires the suspension on our bikes is pretty close to the same, it would be very interesting to ride the two and get a feel for how big a difference the tires make.

Maybe sometime down the road a bit you, Kerry, and I can get together one saturday for a group ride somewhere and we can do some experimentation while we're at it, or you could stop by during lunch or something. =]

[Frost]

wow...i think you're the first one with the AV46...
does it fit perfectly?...and does it make the seat higher?...
any changes in riding position?...

[pantablo]

-keith codes TotW II is the better one. theres also a better book by Nick Ienatsch called Sport Riding Techniques (I think).


-radials ARE that much better. I had done my suspension with stock tires but when I swapped to good Sportec M1's (150/60 rear) there was a night-day difference in my riding. It really is that much difference. Some may be mental too-you trust them more, at least I did.

-I have the av46 140/80 on the rear. good tire but I cant get used to the deeper tread blocks squirming when accelerating from a standstill. Good grip though. supposed to have good wet weather grip but cant confirm. taller than stock and wider but still fits fine inside the brake stay arm, less clearance though. it barely fits inside my bandit 400 hugger too.

-suspension and tire upgrades should be MANDATORY first upgrades before anything else as it makes SUCH a difference. It is totally worth the expense.

[Hi-T]

I think the avon is sweet.  the tread IS fairly deep and are cut wide- but to be honest, I can't feel the tire squirm...

The tire fit's perfectly on the rim and in the bike- no clearance issues.  However, i did cut the back of the fender off- made it easier to install the tire by myself (and we all know it makes look faster).  It is bigger and it does raise the back of the bike- if the Gs is already a little too tall for you than I wouldn't suggest it.  But otherwise, I love the new feel.

[Hi-T]

Every mod has it's place- I choose the performance mods first (exhaust, filter, Jet kit, advancer) because I want the extra power to pull me through downtown.

But the tires and suspension are the icing on the cake.  I can honestly say I want ot keep the GS another season.

I've spent a total of 500 dollars suping up the bike - $3000 less than most other sport bikes and still have the insurance break.  Gotta love the gs.

[Frost]

hey pablo...you're my size...
have you ever been on a raised GS?...can your feet touch the ground?

anyone who's 5'7" with any problems with a raised rear?

[pantablo]

I'm 5'6, 30" inseam.

I started with the gsxr rear shock-raised by about 1-1.5" in rear. For an idea how far it raised, put your bike on its centerstand. Note the clear distance from ground to tire. On my bike, with the gsxr shock the tire was *just* barely off the ground while on the centerstand. Left me not quite on my tippytoes but definitely not flat footed. More like half-flat foot.

Rode lone time like that. Now with the avon it went up a bit again but I havent really noticed the difference at my feet. I have noticed the difference in how the bike turns in and how stable it feels compared to the old M1 150/60 I had.


bottom line: my feet do touch the ground but I do not flat foot. Perfectly comfortable that way.

[tkm433]

I have finished the bike.  Last weekend I swapped in the Progressive springs, katana rear shock and put on some new radials- HOLY CRAP!!  There is a huge difference in handling!  It used to be that I had to fight the bike to take high speed freeway bends- now I have to stop the bike from turning too sharply and running of the road.

Later

by installing the katana rear shock it most likely raised the rear of the bike by about an inch and you also installed a larger rear tire and it also raised the rear of the bike.  By doing this you in turn increased the head angle of the bike which makes the bike steer quicker than the stock set-up.  Yes, the nw tires might of given the bike a better ride and grip but most of your change in handling is due to the change in the rear ride heigth which increases the steering angle which makes the bike turn in quicker.

[pantablo]

ah, sure...throw some logic in the mix why dont you...

[octane]

hey pablo...you're my size...
have you ever been on a raised GS?...can your feet touch the ground?

anyone who's 5'7" with any problems with a raised rear?

5'6", 29" inseam. GSX'R shock. No problems touching comfortable, but I can't flatfoot.

[gsJack]

-I have the av46 140/80 on the rear. good tire but I cant get used to the deeper tread blocks squirming when accelerating from a standstill. Good grip though. supposed to have good wet weather grip but cant confirm. taller than stock and wider but still fits fine inside the brake stay arm, less clearance though. it barely fits inside my bandit 400 hugger too.

Squirming is not due to the rear tread depth, Pablo.  It is due to the tread pattern as reported by Bike mag a year or so ago.  The AV46 has a 6.6mm deep tread and the tread depth on the two Z2 rears I used was 8mm.  No low speed wiggle or squirm with the Z2's.  

I'm planning on the AM45/46 combo on the 02 this year unless I try the AV49/50 sport tires to keep the rear lower with the 150/60 tire.  My 02 came with a big 130/90 rear and I'm having a little more trouble each year getting my leg over with my ever increasing arthritus.

To ALL, the rear OEM tire is 24.1" OD and the 140/80 AV46 is 25.8 OD and will raise the rear about .85 inch.  I have to consider bike heigth now like a short person.   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  Fortunately, I am happy with the handling of the GS's with the Progressive springs and radial tires and don't have to raise the rear more with a diff shock.

[Frost]

what are my choices for radials?
Z2/Z4
AV45/46

anymore?...i'm short and don't want to raise the rear that much...

[gsJack]

what are my choices for radials?
Z2/Z4
AV45/46

anymore?...i'm short and don't want to raise the rear that much...

F/R       OEM rear 24.1" OD

Z4/Z2   130/80 rear OD=25.04"    raise rear about 1/2 inch

AV45/46  140/80 rear 25.8" OD    raise rear about 1"
D205       140/80 rear 26.1" OD      

The 150/60 rears not approved by mfg for 3.5" rims.

Sportec        150/60 rear 23.9" OD  rear about same as OEM
Contiforce    150/60 rear 24.1" OD    
Pilot Sport    150/60 rear  ??            
AV49/50       150/60 rear 24.3" OD    
Diablo          150/60 rear  ??            

Also three 150/70 rears approved for 3.5" GS rim

Z4/Z4              150/70 rear 25.43" OD raise rear about 1/2"+
Contiforce        150/70 rear 25.3" OD
BT010/BT020    150/70 rear 25.3" OD

If I think of more, I'll add them.  I was planning on the AV45/46 rears for this year, but am now considering AV49/50 for lower rear.  They won't wear nearly as loong as the AV45/46 tires.  

Remember Pablo was not happy with his 150/60 Pilot Sport after it was worn and went to the AV46.   I had that falling feeling Pablo described with a GT501 front and a Z2 rear and quickly adjusted to it.  Try at your own risk!    :lol:  :lol:  :dunno:

[pantablo]

Squirming is not due to the rear tread depth, Pablo.  It is due to the tread pattern as reported by Bike mag a year or so ago.  

Funny, I remember reading that it was the big tread blocks and deep grooves between...whatever it is I feel it squirm and I dont like it.

Tire rolls from vertical to cornering very nicely but in straight line the bike feels unstable (ONLY compared to my old 150/60).