Hello,
I recently bought a bike off of ebay and did some work on it and got it to turn. The only problem now is that I am a new rider, I have taken my classes and got the license. But it seems like I am having a hard time learning smooth transitions of changing gears, going up and down. Because of this, I have been worried about taking it out in actual traffic, please advice. Some quesitons I have and I hope to find some answers here.
1) When gearing up, I let go of the throttle, squeeze the clutch and lift gear up once and start releasing the clutch and then start rolling on the throttle.
2) When gearing down, I just squeeze the throttle and go down simultaneously.
3) I always have a hard time stopping, if I am in a high gear, do I have to come down all the way to the 1st gear or can I just stop with my breaks and not worry about gearing down all the way?
4) I am confused as to what Prime is on the bike, it seems like the bike starts and runs only when the choke is on and the fuel is set to prime and not on. Is this how it is supposed to be?
Yes, I know my questions are basic but I would like to understand them completely before I actually try riding on a street. All advices are appreciated!
concrats on the bike :thumb:
1. your just about right on that one. as your pulling in the clutch let of the throttle. dont let off the trottle and the pull in the clutch as 2 seperate movements. its just one.
2. learn to let off the trottle, pull in the clutch then down shift, get that smooth before you try and learn to blip the throttle.
3, come down with the gears, start slowing up well before you have to stop, if you just use you brakes you'll be sitting at the light trying to get from 5th all the way back down to 1st before you can take off, try to use your gears as much as possible to control your speed.
4. prime. is where the gas comes directly from the tank into the float bowls, with the help of gravity. as opposed to reserve or run witch uses the vacume to pull the gas down, only use prime if you have drained your bowls and need to refill them, or if you have been on a very long ride and there isn't enough gas getting to the carbs.
good luck :icon_mrgreen:
3) I don't engage the clutch in every gear when coming to a stop. I think that would seriously damage my stopping ability. I do, however, click down the transmission so that I'm in a good gear for the speed I'm going, in case I may need to take off in a hurry. For example, let's say I'm going 60mph in 6th gear. While I'm braking, with the clutch disengaged, I'll click down to 5th when I reach 50, 4th at 40, 3rd at 30, etc...
You definitely don't want to be stopped in 5th gear. You'll have to rock the bike or feather the clutch to encourage it to go down to 4th and 3rd. (3-2-1 can be done while stopped, in my experience.)
Quote from: Chuck on June 13, 2006, 07:27:09 AM
For example, let's say I'm going 60mph in 6th gear. While I'm braking, with the clutch disengaged, I'll click down to 5th when I reach 50, 4th at 40, 3rd at 30, etc...
Sorry, I'm not sure if I understand. Do you mean you downshift without the clutch? or are you holding the clutch in and downshifting without releasing the clutch in between shifts?
Downshift without releasing the clutch, you hold it in the whole time. You're basicly making your self able to drop the clutch and go if nessary.
Mitch, I don't agree with your holding in the clutch. When you downshift, release the clutch and let the engine help with braking. Otherwise you end up with hotter brakes (and possible rotor warping in certain conditions), and quicker brake wear.
QuoteYou're basicly making your self able to drop the clutch and go if nessary.
If you do that in the wrong RPM range, you could lug your engine or worse than that, lose control when you slow down too fast from sudden engine braking.
All around bad idea. imho :dunno_white:
I'm with Chuck. If "engage every gear" is the only method one knows ... one is gonna find themselves hosed sooner or later. Stuck at a stop in too high of a gear, or worse - unable to take evasive action after having to scrub off speed fast in a traffic situation. I guess it's a fine method if you always have the luxury of stopping at your leisure (which is when I use it) ... but "stuff" happens.
I don't recommend riding your brakes down a miles-long hill, but stops aren't generally prolonged enough to risk overheating the brake components. I'll grant the "quicker brake wear", but reducing speed is what brakes are for.
How many folks who drive cars with a manual transmission "take it down through the gears" every time they stop, or slow for a turn?
Quote from: KerryHow many folks who drive cars with a manual transmission "take it down through the gears" every time they stop, or slow for a turn?
Er, sometimes I do. Usually I don't if it is 55 to 0. I will use 2nd to slow once I get down there though, that way I can keep going if I need to. Otherwise I have to hit first, which is really tall(I think that's right) and useless unless I'm stopped.
As for the bike, I try to follow the same idea, but usually go all the way to 1st, then either leave it there, or go back up.. (yea.. I don't really remember which gear I am in.)
+1 with kerry, brakes are made for stopping. i'd rather replace pads (and even rotors) than rebuild the engine.
on a leisurly stop, the brakes are in no danger of overheating since they're not being taxed heavily. on a hard stop, i'd rather focus my attention on modulating the brakes and not on matching revs.
besides, engine braking = using rear brake. you have finer control over the rear wheel brakes than with engine braking. and each time you shift you change the amount of engine braking you're getting.
as for being smooth, it takes practice! keep in mind that motorcycle clutches are wet, and are made for slipping. not like those on cars. use clutch slip liberally to help you be smooth. when starting from stop i slip the clutch for a second or two, and on downshifts especially i slip the clutch for a bit to make sure i'm coming into the correct gear.
practice practice practice, and slip the clutch.
For normal road riding its fine to click down a few gears at a time so long as your not doing it in a way where you release the clutch and the back wheel locks or you get a huge decrease in speed as the engine braking slows you down fast.
When im on the track i always work up through the gears without the clutch but thats because i have a quickshifter. On the downshift i always engage in each gear to make sure i have maximum braking (using engine as well as brakes) If you disengage and coast you are not utilising engine braking and are in danger of locking your wheels. Especially as you get bikes with more power. Performance bikes shouldn't be knocked down several gears at once as they will probably lock up and cause a skid if you don't release the clutch just perfect.
Quote from: oramac on June 13, 2006, 10:37:56 AM
When you downshift, release the clutch and let the engine help with braking.
Your brakes don't need help.
Quote from: Mitch on June 13, 2006, 10:13:31 AM
Downshift without releasing the clutch, you hold it in the whole time. You're basicly making your self able to drop the clutch and go if nessary.
That's it. :thumb:
I kinda do a mix of the two... if I'm coming to a more gradual stop, or coming to a stop that I may or may not have to really stop (like a light that just turned green and there are cars in front of me that haven't started moving yet) , I brake with the front and rear brakes and downshift and release the clutch for each gear. My logic for this is it ensures I'm always in the gear I want to be in if I ever need to accelarate. (I never know what gear I'm in, I just make sure it is in the power band at all times, so saying 5th for 50, 4th for 40 so on doesn't work for me) I also look at is as if you click all the way down to first gear, then decide you need to go quickly and just drop the cluch out of panic at 50MPH you'll lock up the rear wheel and possibly crash.
On the other hand, if I'm coming to a stop that I know I'm gonna have to stop, I pull in and hold the cluch and click down through all the gears as I brake.
When I'm just controlling my speed, like going down a mountain, I only engine brake by putting it in a gear or 2 lower then I normally woud for that speed.
this guy is only just learning to ride. dont start him off with bad habbits straight off.
use all your gears to slow you down. dont double shift. you shouldnt be going that fast that you require to do that.
always use your clutch.
when you have mastered all those rules then you can do what ever you want, at least you have some where decent to start from.
MSF will teach you those things! :thumb:
Quote from: scratch on June 13, 2006, 12:22:03 PM
MSF will teach you those things! :thumb:
Yes, and the MSF never taught me to engine brake. The brakes are much stronger than the engine.
Quote from: hmmmnz on June 13, 2006, 12:20:22 PM
this guy is only just learning to ride. dont start him off with bad habbits straight off.
I agree. I'm a noob myself but feel that it would be dangerous to coast with the clutch in. But what do I know?
Quote from: che mike on June 13, 2006, 11:10:27 AM
as for being smooth, it takes practice! keep in mind that motorcycle clutches are wet, and are made for slipping. not like those on cars. use clutch slip liberally to help you be smooth. when starting from stop i slip the clutch for a second or two, and on downshifts especially i slip the clutch for a bit to make sure i'm coming into the correct gear.
practice practice practice, and slip the clutch.
What exactly do u mean by "slip the clutch"?
Quote from: Dorianfes on June 13, 2006, 03:34:34 PM
What exactly do u mean by "slip the clutch"?
this is what i mean:
http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2950&SearchTerms=clutch
long post to follow, but you asked :)
"
I'd just like to chime in and say that sometimes having learned how to drive a manual transmission makes it HARDER to learn how to ride a bike (properly, at least)
I was very good with a manual transmission (in a car) before I started riding motorcycles. I learned on a manual transmission. I had several jobs where I had to drive manual transmissions, and I racked up well over 200,000 miles (a significant amount of which was in heavy city driving) on various manual transmission vehicles.
The problem I had was that when I leanred how to drive, I was taught not to "slip the clutch". It was drilled into my head that it would wear the clutch out. I was very good at shfting smoothly but keeping the clutch in the "friction zone" for the least possible amount of time every time I shifted.
That may be well and good for cars, which have dry clutches and flywheels to keep the engine spinning, but on a motorcycle, that uses a wet clutch (to minimze wear) and most bikes don't have a flywheel, it doesn't work very well.
I actually did fine with my starts in my first MSF class, but I had a real problem with low speed manuevers, and taking off on hills.
My original MSF instructor didn't do a very good job in teaching me how to propely use the friction zone...
I really didn't learn how to use the friction zone until was well into my MSF instructor's course.
When I teach classes now, I will often ask students if they've learned how to drive a manual transmission, and if they were taught not to "slip the clutch". I would say that out of the students with manual experience probably 1/3 say they were taught not to do this.
Although the basic mechanics are the same, the technique for shifting a motorcycle is different... there are many low-speed manuevers (parking lots come to mind) where you really must use the friction zone to be smooth and in-control. You actually need to "ride the clutch" during the manuever to keep the engine more in it's power band and to be smooth.
One technique that I've started using is "the count":
As you ease the clutch out, you count. Each number represents how much you are squeezing the clutch. 1 being completely squeezed, 5 being completely released. A "normal" start may be something like (okay, maybe a little exaggerated):
1 - 2 - 3 - 2.5 - 2.75 - 2.75 - 3 - 3 - 3.5 - 4 - 5
As you can see, you ease out to 3, and maybe detect that the engine is lugging slightly, so you squeeze in a little, then ease slowly out as the bike builds up speed. What it sounds like you're doing is when you detect the engine lugging, you're releasing the clutch... which causes the bike to die. Rolling on the throttle *might* help a little, but you should be able to get a bike rolling with almost no throttle... I would focus on getting the clutch control down first, then add throttle in as you feel more in control.
"
(the last few sentences are replying to a previous poster who was having troubles stalling from a start)
and a follwup post:
"
I didn't know you were a Rider/Coach, Tom. Congratulations!
This was a wonderful way to show your clutch lever usage:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 - 2 - 3 - 2.5 - 2.75 - 2.75 - 3 - 3 - 3.5 - 4 - 5
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A NORMAL shift should be, in my opinion, more like:
1 - 2 - 3 - 3 - 3.5 - 4 - 5
The hesitation being when you feel the friction zone just starting to bite.
If when I'm at '3' I find that somehow I am in the wrong gear, then it would be more like:
1 - 2 - 3 - 1
followed by a double-up or double-down shift to get the right gear in place and then:
1 - 2 - 3 - 3 - 3.5 - 4 - 5
Nice educational tool, Tom!
What I especially liked about your post was the way you made sure to explain that it was *your* advice and not that of the MSF and not you speaking for the MSF. Having an MSF certification, as we both know, does not make a person all knowlegable but assures that he/she has the fundamentals down pat. You done good!
"
im not saying at all not to use your brakes, or that you should use your gears to slow you down.
im saying match your gears/revs to your speed when your braking.
Quote from: hmmmnz on June 13, 2006, 04:43:30 PM
i'm not saying at all not to use your brakes, or that you should use your gears to slow you down.
i'm saying match your gears/revs to your speed when you're braking.
I agree with this. When slowing, I'm braking (both brakes obviously) and starting to go down through the gears. I will click down a gear, let the clutch out, feel the drag slow me slightly, cluch in, click down another etc. while still braking. Throttle mostly closed at this point. Usually I don't do this for every gear - the last two I'll just click down holding the clutch in as others have mentioned as I'm reaching a stop. Things that change this are: if I'm expecting a light to change, or it has already changed but there's a line of traffic forcing me to slow down, then I won't coast at all - I'll always be in gear ready to go.
The advice about shaking the manual tranny habit (cars) of getting off the clutch as soon as possible is great advice. I managed to ace my MSF maneuvers without learning that, but it has came naturally after while.
Other comments: ROLL on and off the throttle as smoothly as you can. Don't let it snap shut or yank it wide open. Squeeze the clutch rather than pulling the lever. Picture yourself squeezing one of those stress balls rather than pulling a switch. It's that kind of motion.
When going down through the gears brake FIRST, then shift down. If your going down a gear (or two) to accelerate then roll back the throttle some as you let the clutch out (smoothly).
You shouldn't need the PRIme for regular starting and driving.
Learn all the above skills in your neighborhood during quiet times of the day before venturing into traffic. I racked up 50 miles on local streets before hitting the highway. Do lots of stops and starts. Then start practising with signals etc. Work on smoothness not speed. Once you're smooth the speed will come.
Oh and just in case the picture (avatar) is of you, remember to wear a helmet while you're doing all the above.
Good luck.
C.
Hmm....I rode today and seems to be getting better, I guess it's just a matter of practice. A bit confusing, but advices did help! Thanks everyone! and yes I did hit the books to get a better understanding.
what exactly is dangerous about coasting with the clutch in and in the right gear incase you need to go?
Seams to me you're taking more of a risk or messing up and wearing out clutches faster, by engine breaking everytime.
Quote from: Mitch on June 14, 2006, 06:44:23 AM
what exactly is dangerous about coasting with the clutch in and in the right gear incase you need to go?
Seams to me you're taking more of a risk or messing up and wearing out clutches faster, by engine breaking everytime.
I believe the argument is that if you don't have it in the right gear for your speed (which you'll know if you let out the clutch lever) then you risk not being able to get out of the way or the rear tire breaking loose.
Engine braking does not wear stuff out to an extreme degree. Motorcycle engines are much higher performance engines than a car due to high rpms etc. . . You are ment to use engine braking just as if you are taught to drive a car they teach you it is unsafe to coast because engine braking helps you slow down. You shouldn't coast with the clutch in for long periods of time. That will in the long run do you more damage than letting the engine brake. Engines are designed to do it.
Quote from: Kasumi on June 14, 2006, 08:23:59 AM
Engine braking does not wear stuff out to an extreme degree. Motorcycle engines are much higher performance engines than a car due to high rpms etc. . . You are ment to use engine braking just as if you are taught to drive a car they teach you it is unsafe to coast because engine braking helps you slow down. You shouldn't coast with the clutch in for long periods of time. That will in the long run do you more damage than letting the engine brake. Engines are designed to do it.
I tell people this all the time. Engine braking is taken into serious consideration when designing the engine and its fuel system. People seem to think it's bad because it makes a lot of noise. So unless you're driving around in a WRC race car with turbo anti-lag and intentionally shoot flames out your exhaust everytime you engine brake, engine braking is almost harmless.
Also look at it this way: you get BETTER gas mileage coasting with the clutch engaged then you do with it disengaged. So next time you're going down a hill, downshift, let that clutch out, and stop riding your damn brakes!
i have been using my gears to slow me down....find it works well and as mentioned b4 its good idea to let the engine slow you down...............
my advice from newbie to newbie
listen to the oher users, they have been much longer with more riding experiance
:thumb:
There are two damn good reasons not to engine brake:
1. Your brake light doesn't come on!
2. You're not practicing correct stopping technique. You should always use both brakes so that in an emergency, that's what you do automatically. By grabbing the clutch, and using both brakes, you're doing what you should do in an emergency stop. That way you are more attuned to how your bike will behave. You know how much rear brake you can give. You know how fast you can increase the front brake.
1 is easy to compensate for. 2...not so much.
Quote from: Mitch on June 14, 2006, 06:44:23 AM
what exactly is dangerous about coasting with the clutch in and in the right gear incase you need to go?
Seams to me you're taking more of a risk or messing up and wearing out clutches faster, by engine breaking everytime.
It's not excessively wearing out the clutch or the motor to engine brake. If you do it jerkily it's putting stress on the driveline, but I don't think anyone is advocating that.
C.
Quote from: Egaeus on June 14, 2006, 09:43:19 AM
2. You're not practicing correct stopping technique. You should always use both brakes so that in an emergency, that's what you do automatically. By grabbing the clutch, and using both brakes, you're doing what you should do in an emergency stop.
Not all cases of slowing down are emergency stops. I don't know about you, but I slow down gradually and early for 95% of my stops, just like I would in a car and I do so using a combination of brakes and downshifting, just like I do in a car. When I'm braking I always use both brakes. As you point out, that's an important habit to get into. But it is not correct technique to coast to a stop from highway speeds.
C.
Exactly. Plus you use engine braking and a combination of engine braking and brakes when coming to a completle stop. Thus your brake light would be on. Are you saying when you come into a corner which is a touch slower than the one you just went thru that you disengage the clutch and brake using brakes only then reengage and go round because that would be lethal. If the corner is a touch slower i let the engine slow me down.
Like I said:
Quote from: Kerry on June 13, 2006, 10:54:58 AM[engine braking is] a fine method if you always have the luxury of stopping at your leisure (which is when I use it) ... but "stuff" happens.
I simply encourage riders to learn to shift down during a stop even if they aren't able to engine brake through every gear (due to an unexpected fast stop situation). Few things are ever "all or nothing" - I do it both ways, depending on the circumstances.
Speaking of all or nothing, I wonder which approach would cost more over time. (
Fuel + engine wear vs
brake pads + rotor steel) I don't expect an answer on this, just a thought question.
Thanks for the explanation. Yeah...I've only drivin' manual cars (I like the extra control you get). I had the exact problem when trying to turn while going really slow. Trained not to ride the clutch, but I guess I need to break the habit. So when you guys are riding through the twisties I'd imagine you're revving in medium/high range and using a lot of clutch/engine breaking for control right? I mean you wouldn't want to use brakes while in the twisties....right?
In the twistes alot of engine braking is useful and using the clutch to smoothly change gear although i rarely use the clutch as im actually going just for changing gear. Its harder to use brakes in the twisties as your forever lent over when it becomes impossible to use front brake and the backbrake can only be used gently if absolutly neccesary thus you can use engine braking to a certain effect.
The question was about stopping, not slowing down in the curves.
Fine, when stopping you use your engine braking and a combination of your brakes. As i come to a stop i will be changing down a few gears using the engine to slow me down. When i get to about 2nd im usually at the junction (i don't wana spend the previous half a mile changing down gears to come to a full stop at a junction) but the combination of engine braking and brakes brings you to a safe stop possible in second where you just click down into first. If when you were coming up to a junction and you were in 5th and you pulled the clutch in and started braking, the first thing is you begin to lose the giroscopic force for the speed your at (you become unstable) second thing is if for any reason you need to get the hell outta there you let the clutch out and find your either in too higher gear so you have no power whatsoever or your in too low a gear for your speed and you lock the rear wheel up. In any instance engines are designed to give the effect of engine braking. You should utilise it not try and avoid it, especially on motorcycles they were designed to use it.
Quote from: Kasumi on June 15, 2006, 02:14:23 AM
...and you were in 5th and you pulled the clutch in and started braking, the first thing is you begin to lose the giroscopic force for the speed your at (you become unstable)
You made a completely sensible post that stands well on its own, and then added this BS tidbit. :laugh: Totally unnecessary. Your bike becomes unstable because your engine is not spinning as fast? I'd buy
less stable, not
unstable... like 2% less... I've ridden around with the engine off (downhill of course) and haven't noticed any reduced stability.
I agree with you that the engines and drivetrains are designed for this, and you should not avoid engine braking because you're afraid of breaking stuff.
The only thing I disagree with is the idea that
you must engine brake all the freakin time. And that's what it sounds like a lot of folks are saying. There's a time and a place for everything, and sometimes things are not appropriate for other times and places. That's ok.
The only reason I respond to nitpicky things like this is that there's a lot of newbies on the forum, and I don't want them to learn all these crazy "old biker's tales" that give them too much more to think about than simply driving safely.
Engine braking has to do with:
- Keeping in the right gear for the speed
- Making simple slight speed adjustments where brake levers are not necessary
- Slowing down if you have plenty of time
- Slowing down if your brakes have failed? :o
- Probably a bunch more sane, rational things
Engine braking has
absolutely nothing to do with:
- Saving your freakin clutch
- Saving your engine, valves, crankshaft, chain, etc...
- Saving gas? :cookoo:
- Saving your brake pads, rotors, etc... :laugh: :icon_rolleyes:
- Saving face in an internet argument
- Preventing government mind control
- etc...
Let's just be clear on what things are true, and what things are handed down by kooky old bikers and mechanics.
Quote from: Kasumi on June 15, 2006, 02:14:23 AM
if for any reason you need to get the hell outta there you let the clutch out and find your either in too higher gear so you have no power whatsoever or your in too low a gear for your speed and you lock the rear wheel up.
Are you so out of tune with your motorcycle that you don't know about what gear you're supposed to be in for what speed? And do you not know how to blip the throttle?
Quote from: Egaeus on June 15, 2006, 10:01:20 AM
Are you so out of tune with your motorcycle that you don't know about what gear you're supposed to be in for what speed? And do you not know how to blip the throttle?
That's why in my original post, I said I follow my speed with my gearbox without letting out the clutch. Maybe I'm just "in tune." If I want to get up and go, I'm always in the right gear, I don't need to let the clutch out every gear to confirm it for me.
+1
I mix it up... I engine break from high speeds, but at low speeds in 3rd, I usually drop to first and do a blip to make sure the gears are all in place, then stop. When stopping faster I tend to skip gears - if I don't, blipping is almost unnecessary. Idano, what I do has just become kind of automatic. Around here I get a LOT of stop and go experience.
Egaeus:
Excuse me i ride on the track im plenty capable of riding a motorcycle. And have you forgotton this is about a newbie riding and we were cutting the blipping of the throttle out for later. I have seen many first time riders pull the clutch in when coming approaching a roundabout and when they go out onto the roundabout they let go of the clutch and find they havn't got in the right gear and get stuck in the middle of a roundabout. Im going on what ive seen not what i think could happen. By making sure you go into most gears you can at least ensure your in the right gear when you approach something which requires you to accelerate again.
Again, you're talking about navigating turns, not coming to a stop. They are completely different situations. The only time I ride the clutch is when I plan on coming to a complete stop.
Pulling the clutch in when coming to a stop reduces control significantly, reduces braking effect, increases wear on your brake pads, wheras engine braking does not. Its unsafe if you have to for some reason speed up again. Have you tried stopping without coasting and using just your brakes. Try it, you'll find you stop alot better and alot easier with more control.
Quote from: Kasumi on June 15, 2006, 03:14:04 PM
Pulling the clutch in when coming to a stop reduces control significantly,
Control of what?
Quote from: Kasumi on June 15, 2006, 03:14:04 PM
reduces braking effect,
Absolute BS. You can bring both tires to a dead stop with just brakes.
Quote from: Kasumi on June 15, 2006, 03:14:04 PM
increases wear on your brake pads,
True, but not significant.
Once again, I have to ask why people insist on adding BS arguments as fluff to their main point?
I'm not going to even argue your main point, which I think is a valid opinion, but not one I agree with. Stick to that and we don't have to argue about engine braking and brake pad wear!!! :2guns:
Here's how I stop:
Roll off the throttle
Apply brakes
When engine speed starts to get in the useless range, squeeze the clutch
Begin to downshift into more appropriate gears as I slow down
Stop, left foot down.
brake pad wear is a serious issue if you live on the side of a mountain like me, although not so much for just normal stopping... for example: both my car and my moms car are manual, I engine brake and don't use my brakes when going down the mountain, whereas my mom, and most people, ride thier brakes all the way down. If she waits more than a year to replace her pads, she'll need new rotors too. I on the other hand go 2-3 years between changing my brake pads, and that's more preventive than needed.
Right, you never ride your brakes down a mountain. Not only will that use up a lot of brake pad, it could possibly overheat your brakes and make them stop working as you roll down that mountain out of control. That would suck, too. At the very least, it can make your rotors warpy. Not good. And kinda expensive.
For normal stopping, like a stop sign or red light, I use my brakes the whole time, 90% of the time with my clutch in, 10% of the time bringing the clutch out and blipping once in a while if it's a leisurely stop or I want to make vroom vroom noises. (Someone needs to admit they do it because it sounds cool, not all this safety and brake pad silliness.) After 10,000 miles I still have 1/2 my factory brake pads left, and when I kill them completely I won't mind paying $30 for the new ones.
/signing out
Il stick to how i ride it works well. This argument isnt worth it especially when again its gone off topic and yes my opinons are a contributions to that. It will end up in the TF.
Been riding a lot, took all the suggestions from here and I think I am finally getting it. I rode about 20 miles today with having much trouble with shifting. Also breaking seems to be a peice of cake now.
Well, I hope you learned something from the frank exchange of opinions. :)
Quote from: adam on June 16, 2006, 01:06:14 PM
Been riding a lot, took all the suggestions from here and I think I am finally getting it.
That's quite a feat. Suggestions were all over the place. I'm glad you weren't scared off. Stick around and keep posting. :cheers: