GStwin.com GS500 Message Forum

Ok, it's anonymous, so lets be honest.  Don't vote how you feel now, vote how you felt when you first hit the books as a freshman.... excuse me... fresh-person  :icon_rolleyes:

It is fall again, and as I wander through a sea of teenagers acting like TOTAL IDIOTS for the TENTH time in my life, I begin to question most people's motivation for going to college.  IMO, college is quickly becoming the new high school... everybody gets to go and as long as they don't rock the boat too much, they are allowed on through and get a sheep-skin.  Professional distinction occurs in graduate school or the workplace these days.

But that's just my opinion, lets get some data.  The results will be published in the GStwin Journal of Higher Education. ;)

Note: I realize that the GStwinners of the world don't accurately represent the chuckleheads I'm dealing with from day to day on campus, but lets see what happens anyway. [/i]

I will give you my full perspective when I get a chance, but for now I have to spend my time getting ready to teach.  I'll check back when I can.

and i plan on returning for architecture. heh im 31 now id be one of the few on campus able to buy alky legally :laugh:

I wanted to go to college so I could learn to be an engineer, to learn enough to get into grad school and earn my Master's, thereby allowing me to get a well paying job so I can buy things and live comfortably. :)

I am surrounded by those idiots that you're talking about and I totally see what you mean by the "new high school" comment. Some stuff is barbarically easy, but there is other stuff that is still difficult if you don't put the time in.

I didn't go for a number of reasons:

...I didn't have cash and loan/grant paperwork is...well...it's paperwork.

...I don't like people.  College is a bad way to get away from people.

...I like working.  College is a bad way to fill in that time between working and sleeping.

...I couldn't think of anything to go for.  College is almost obsolete now that the internet is main stream.  The only thing the internet hasn't done for me is tell me where the clitoris is...of all things...

Didn't go, but I'm making enought so that my wife doesn't have to work and we live comfortably.

Went to DoD school's and the coulselors there don't really tell you about grants, student loans and stuff like they do here in the states. 

I'm sorta of a work-a-holic.  Been working sense I was 15, if I have more than 2 day's off from work I start going crazy looking for stuff to do.  And besides more than 24 hrs with the wife and I'm ready to head back to work.  :laugh:   

^ditto.  20 hour work days...all of them.

What a nice memory- all of the high school children in college.  I was always amazed at how many of them would come out of the woodwork come test time.  As if showing up only for the tests would be some benefit to them.... And the incessant chatter throughout the class session from the few that did show up....:dunno_white:

I guess I'm just hyper-sensitive to it this year because I'm teaching a lab section.  This means I am going through a week of teacher training, which consists of going through the labs, discussing class policy, and swapping horror stories of students who think they deserve a passing grade for a lousy effort or who spend more energy complaining about the work they are assigned than they do actually working.

I'll be honest, when I first went to college I knew I wanted to get that degree and teach some day, but I did also enjoy staying on mom-n-dad's payroll for another 4 years.  Spending ten years in college has taught me many things, one the most important of which is that a college degree alone tells you very little about a person.  These days if you have the money and the time, a college degree can be had by almost anyone.

I went because it was just what you did.  That and I wanted to keep playing basketball.

Vtlion -  I know exactly how you feel about all the kids coming in. 

Imagine your town of about 60,000 people.  Now overnight, imagine 60,000 more people moving in.  That's what it's like right now in State College.  Idiots that don't know where they are going so I curse everytime I ride/drive to work, freshman too fast too furious rides trying to prove themselves by cruising Beaver, never being able to go out to eat, waiting in line for 10 minutes anywhere you go.  This list could go on and on.

Quote from: AlphaFire X5 on September 05, 2006, 10:04:12 PM
I wanted to go to college so I could learn to be an engineer, to learn enough to get into grad school and earn my Master's, thereby allowing me to get a well paying job so I can buy things and live comfortably. :)

+1 to the T

Every year the freshman amuse the hell out of me for the first couple months.  On friday and saturday nights they stick out like a sore thumb; wandering up and down the streets trying to figure out where these parties are they keep seeing in the moives, acting goofy as hell.  Girls are the worst; the get all dressed up like they're going to work the corner, wander around in these big freaking packs, then get so stupidly drunk because this is the 3rd time they're drank in their entire life, then gladly take off their clothes for anyone who asks.  Talk about in need of attention

Most people grow out of this... sooner or later

Quote from: LimaXray on September 06, 2006, 05:59:32 AM
Every year the freshman amuse the hell out of me for the first couple months.  On friday and saturday nights they stick out like a sore thumb; wandering up and down the streets trying to figure out where these parties are they keep seeing in the moives, acting goofy as hell.  Girls are the worst; the get all dressed up like they're going to work the corner, wander around in these big freaking packs, then get so stupidly drunk because this is the 3rd time they're drank in their entire life, then gladly take off their clothes for anyone who asks.  Talk about in need of attention

Most people grow out of this... sooner or later

Good gravy, I agree 100%.  Especially the girls part.

College is funny.  As everyone gets older and has spent a few years at their school, they become positive that the freshman are changing and are becoming more and more worthless.  I've been here more years than I care to admit and I'm pretty sure we acted the same as freshman.  Some people will get kicked out, the rest will grow up and someday complain about the freshman.

What I am getting sick of...the motorcycles.  EVERYONE here rides a race replica.  We have 80 motorcycle spots at the engineering building alone.  Two years ago you might have seen 40-50 bikes at the busiest time of the day.  Now you can find at least 10 motorcycles waiting for spots because they are all full.  I'm telling you...it seems the days of the supersport street legal motorcycles is going to end.  Too many kids getting their hands on death machines at the age of 19 with no real experience.  Flip flops, t-shirt and shorts to match your flashy 100hp bike is a MUST now.

-Turd.

Speaking of the Little Apple, you guys almost shaZam! the bed this weekend!

M - I - Z. . .

Z - O - U!!!!

Went with a career in mind, and every intention of behaving myself.

When it was all done, I started what has become a great career, made lifelong friends, and drank waaaaay more than the recommended daily allowance.  Oh - I learned to love hockey.

GO GOPHERS!@@@

Over here your collage is our University. But just now im in my final year of high school. Il be 18 when i leave. But anywhos we have to start deciding what we are going to do when were leaving. Tonnes of people are going to university. Its just rediculous. Im not going on pure principle 1st and the fact school doesn't suit me second. I don't agree with the way the system is now. Everyone tells you you wont get employed unless you have a degree whereas most jobs don't ask for a degree. So everyone just goes to unversity wastes a tonne of money on tuition fees, housing, food, all that whilst not earning a penny (possibly they have part time job) just to get a degree for a job. I chose to not go, as well as my girlfriend and a few others i know on pure principle that we can prove we can get just as good-a-job without having to go. A few of my friends are moving onto payd work in accountancy firms doing apprenticeships and on the job training. I am heading to the air traffic control collage in bournemouth and my girlfriend is joining an estate agency as a trainee. Funnily enough we have had no support from school to apply to do these things whereas they said they would. The school is supporting those who want to go to university by helping them fill out the forms and get good applications written up.

Its a stupid system and basically you come out in debt without a guaranteed job having just spent years of your life there. Plus everyone goes and gets a degree relativly easily so surely having a degree is soon going to become not good enough. Everyone will have to have a phD next so they can prove they are better than all those people who can get degrees. I understand why people go, and everyone says its about the living away from home, meeting new people and just having a good time. If you are willing to put in the effort you don't need to go. And their are other ways of leaving the nest and making new friends.

I was in KC all weekend and haven't even payed attention to what happened in the football game.  I'm not really into football.

-Turd.

Quote from: Kasumi on September 06, 2006, 08:49:28 AM
If you are willing to put in the effort you don't need to go.

This might be true in your line of work, but I am in mechanical engineering and you simply cannot get into the field and work your way up without the degree.  You can work your way up from being a shop manager or something like that, but you will never be a high level engineer without your PE license.

-Turd.

Quote from: Turd Ferguson on September 06, 2006, 09:05:06 AM

Quote from: Kasumi on September 06, 2006, 08:49:28 AM
If you are willing to put in the effort you don't need to go.

This might be true in your line of work, but I am in mechanical engineering and you simply cannot get into the field and work your way up without the degree.  You can work your way up from being a shop manager or something like that, but you will never be a high level engineer without your PE license.

-Turd.

+1

I'm a computer engineer. Try getting a high paying job with Microsoft or Intel or AMD without a college degree. Sure, Bill Gates did it with a high school degree. But I guarantee now he's gonna want the guys with degrees working for him. And college != debt. I'm in my second year and I've paid cash for everything by working construction jobs over the summer. That's another reason I'm in college. I got sick of working 12 hours a day 6 days a week just to make $1200 a week. I'd rather work 40-50 hours a week on my laptop and make $2K. Granted, I won't do that right out of college, but within a few years it's very doable.

basically i came to college cause i didn't want to work construction or in a mill of some sort for the rest of my life.  Didn't help that my parents didn't support me at all but then again that is why i moved out when i was 16 :laugh: :laugh:.  Computer Science is what I graduated with and I am still stuck in tech support land, all be it a good paying job though.  The job after this one i am either going to shoot for IT management or a programmer, we shall see...

Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on September 05, 2006, 09:13:41 PM
and i plan on returning for architecture. heh im 31 now id be one of the few on campus able to buy alky legally :laugh:

Just don't go hitting on the girls.  You don't want to be that creepy old guy.  :icon_mrgreen:

If I'd gone to college right after high school, the education likely would have been wasted. I put myself through college "later" in life. I always knew I'd go, but I wasn't sure when. I think a big part of the reason I went is precisely because a college degree is what a high school diploma used to be. I didn't want lack of education holding me back (and not just from making money....from earning a living at something I actually enjoy, too...something that's more than "just" a job). I also wanted to set a good example for my son.

I was very much involved with the education experience as a whole, and I met mostly others who were as involved, so I really didn't run into too much foolishness (and/or I avoided it  :icon_mrgreen:). My "study buddies" ranged in age from 17 to 19 (with an occasional oldie in his/her early 20's), but I never felt weird, and the youngsters were very accepting of my oldster self.  :laugh:

I enjoyed school, and I'd be a professional student if it paid better!  :thumb:

Quote from: pandy on September 06, 2006, 03:37:45 PM
a college degree is what a high school diploma used to be

Whoa. What? You're telling me you used to get out of high school ready to go into the NRE field? Wow.. the times, they have a changed since you graduated high school in the 30s, eh? :laugh:  :bs: :icon_mrgreen: :cookoo: :laugh:

Yeah, I don't agree with any of that, Pandy.  Maybe you should be more specific about what field you are talking about.  Personally, I think that 85% of the majors offered here at my school give people amazing skills.  To match those skills with just a high school diploma would take 10+ years in the field.  I've learned mountains of things getting my degree and I didn't learn shaZam! about engineering in high school.

-Turd.

Quote from: NiceGuysFinishLast on September 06, 2006, 04:00:18 PM

Quote from: pandy on September 06, 2006, 03:37:45 PM
a college degree is what a high school diploma used to be

Whoa. What? You're telling me you used to get out of high school ready to go into the NRE field? Wow.. the times, they have a changed since you graduated high school in the 30s, eh? :laugh:  :bs: :icon_mrgreen: :cookoo: :laugh:

I agree that some departments at certain schools really instill great skills on their students, but as a gross generalization, many students seem to show up looking to do as little as possible to get the degree.  I realize that this is nothing new, but the older I get, the less patience I have for it.  It seems that the sciences and engineering are somewhat more immune to this attitude, but not completely. 

College is a business.  Many students pay tuition and expect a degree in return rather than an education.  I have witnessed professors passing a student who clearly deserves a failing grade simply because the student threatened to take their case to a higher athority where they know they will get the 'dissatisfied customer' treatment instead of the 'stupid slackass who is reaping what they sow' treatment.

From what I have seen and heard, pre-meds are the absolute worst.  Many of them only care about the grade.  They are so focused on the numbers for their med school applications that they miss out on alot of great learning.

'cause having a job as a household furniture mover SUCKED!!  I missed playing music, so I majored in it.   :thumb:  I've been teaching it eight years now.

I went to college to become a mechanical engineer, only because simply working on things was never enough to satisfy me. I wanted to how it worked, why it worked and how I can make it better. I have paid my tuition myself along with rent ect,ect, by working two jobs in the summer and one in the school year, thank god I got a good paying internship otherwise I would not be on this forum(either no bike ,or no free time).

Now that I am almost graduated I see how annoying the freshmen are, but I was just as stupid, and there are pictures to prove it. Plus the roving bands of drunk freshmen are good eye candy.

In terms of  college being the next high school, I disagree, unlike high school, college is what you make of it. Sure you can graduate with a degree, but there are so many more aspects of college that make it a far better learning experience(I think that is what you go to do right?)

Looks as though I need to clarify. I wasn't comparing the education one receives in high school as being comparable to the education one receives in college. Far from it. But.... many years ago.....20's? 30's? Yeah...back when I graduated....having a high school diploma was enough. I don't believe it is anymore, in many cases.

Many companies today look for a college degree where that wasn't the case 50 years ago. That was the intent of my statement, but I obviously didn't express myself very well. Almost all of the positions I've had in my lifetime, the first thing that's sought on my resume is what sort of degree I have...not whether or not I have a college degree. Skills, schmills...these companies don't care. Right or wrong, it doesn't matter. It's simply a reality at many companies.

I absolutely believe that getting a college degree is important, and that a high school degree generally isn't enough, DEPENDING ON THE FIELD ONE CHOOSES. Have I qualified my every word enough yet?  Personally, I think everyone should have access to free/extremely low-cost higher education, whether it's for career reasons or for personal enrichment. I think the experience one gains in college is invaluable, both in personal relationships and in knowledge. That's why I busted my butt getting my degree.

It's rather a rite of passage that one goes from a naive, wide-eyed freshman to a more-worldly (hopefully) individual who's ready to enter adult life ( :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: I know this statement is pretty funny in some cases).

One statistic I read while I was still in college was that only 25% of the U.S. population had a college degree, and I remember being absolutely shocked that it was such a low number.

Do I think high school = college in experience and education? Duh. Of course not. Do I believe that it is as important today to have a college degree as it was to have a high school diploma 50 years ago, absolutely. Do I think it depends on what field one is entering? Certainly. Some professions require trade school, some require college degrees, some require life experience, and some require advanced degrees. I believe that higher education expands our choices. Others believe that anything beyond high school is ridiculous if you don't have an idea of what you want to be "when you grow up."

I think college is an excellent place to go to grow up, and it's my hope that I see everyone afforded this opportunity during my lifetime (without having to go into lifetime debt doing so).

Gotcha Pandy...I thought you were saying that a college degree doesn't really do much for anyone.  You were actually saying that many people consider it a MUST when looking to employ someone.

I agree 100%

-Turd.

Ohh my bad, I read that wrong too.

I agree, its a world market now, a high school diploma means nothing

I guess I need to go back and get a *graduate* degree in communication...  :cry:  :laugh:

Today was such a crappy day that I'm not surprised that I made even less sense than usual....  :cookoo:

I've been doing this college thing for over 15 years now. I have various degrees and am working toward a PhD now, and I've been teaching college freshmen for the better part of 10 years now. Now my experience is a bit different than some because I teach in a school of nursing so most of my 200 plus students each semester came to school with a plan in mind, unlike the undecided's or general college of arts and sciences people.  Have they changed? Yes. For one, the caliber of student I get now compared to even 5 years ago is different. Most of my students now are in the top 5% of their classes and are very serious about their educations. Granted I also see more of a sense of entitlement among some of them as well in the sense that they have never gotten below an A in their entire lives and expect the same here (but this is not the majority).

One thing I have noticed in the past few years is that student's are much more aware of the costs associated with college and the debt's that they are incurring. VT you can probably attest to this (being a lifer like me), but when I came to college in 1990 as a freshman, I didn't really have a concept of what it meant to sign all those promissory notes. Let's just say at this point I owe more for my education than I do for my house.

As to why I came to college. I knew I wanted to get out of my hometown. There was nothing there aside from working in one of the two grocery stores. I had this ideal in my head that I would go to school and increase my own knowledge and I wanted  to add to the overall knowledge in the world in some way. It's been an amazing trip and it still continues. I always knew that I wanted to teach and my job now is the best thing ever. I get to teach, and am constantly reading and learning. Plus I get to dissect cadavers on a regular basis, which is really cool.

So to sum it all up. Freshmen are somewhat different now. Many of them are better prepared for college than many of us probably were.  It's still hard. It's still alot of work. You might be able to get through some lower level undergrad classes by showing up to tests or doing half-assed work, but the upper level classes will still weed out those who are just here to have a good time from those who want something more. 

Jake

Awesome post Jake.

-Turd.

yeah, I started my college career in the college of business at Radford.  After my freshman year I decided to give it one more semester because i didn't like the general load of that college, as in to easy and boring, and the other students were at college cause either they had to go, parents paying, or came for the parties, still parents paying.  I finished all my course work in class and never had anything to do afterwards so of course me and my roommate drank and had a good time.  Then i switched to computer science and man did that crap stop at the drop of a hat, but i was happier and actually felt challenged. 

yeah, well said jake42

I went to college because my parents just always expected that I would go to college after high school. I was fortunate to have a great public high school in town...I can truthfully say that my first two years of college (University of California) were easier than my last two years of high school. Got a BS Computer Science, made mucho $ in the dot-com boom in San Francisco, then had to leave for the obscure hinterlands of Southern California.

[NateDawg]
>basically i came to college cause i didn't want to work construction or in a mill of some sort for the rest of my life.  Didn't help that my parents didn't support me at all but then >again that is why i moved out when i was 16  .  Computer Science is what I graduated with and I am still stuck in tech support land, all be it a good paying job though.  The job >after this one i am either going to shoot for IT management or a programmer, we shall see...

I once was a programmer, but the intense all-nighters leading up to deadlines really suck. Now I'm in tech support for a software comapany, and loving it. I'd recommend trying as many jobs as you can, finding the one you like, and settling in for the long haul.

[Pandy]
>I wasn't comparing the education one receives in high school as being comparable to the education one receives in college. Far from it.

Generally, I agree, though I have worked as a subordinate to someone without a college degree--someone who completely outclassed me as a programmer.

Quote from: LeChatNoir on September 08, 2006, 10:13:09 PM
Generally, I agree, though I have worked as a subordinate to someone without a college degree--someone who completely outclassed me as a programmer.

I have a friend like that, but he didn't learn to program in high school.  He learned on his own.  High School doesn't teach you much of anything.

I strongly dissagree with any suggestion that University is a waste of time. Ok its true to say that these days a degree is seen more as a measure of intelligence rather than knowledge in a particular field. Example, If you wanna get on as a management trainee at McD`s you need a degree, dont matter what in .......just have one! Ok there are plenty of jobs for unskilled, skilled and trade/vocationaly qualified individuals but certain jobs are just not open to you unless you are a graduate. Furthermore there are jobs that unless you have studied at Uni you wouldnt have a clue about, like medicine, research and engineering design. Companies depend on graduates who have specialist knowledge in a particular field that can often only be gained at Uni.  I did 2 yrs at Uni then got a job with a well known multi-discipline and multi-national engineering co` and after 6 months they sent me back there for a year. University is definately NOT a waste of time, major organisations must have educated people on board to progress and make a profit and survive and ultimately the financial rewards are there for the individual who can fill the requirements. I certainly wouldnt have the lifestyle I do now if I hadnt taken the university route 20 yrs ago and it is actually my ambition to give up my present career and become a lecturer within the next 10 yrs. I would advise anyone fortunate enough to be in the position to be able study at Uni .......TO TAKE IT!!! without hesitation

Quote from: sledge on September 09, 2006, 04:27:53 PM
I strongly dissagree with any suggestion that University is a waste of time.

I don't think anyone is arguing that college itself is a waste of time.  The sentiment is more that it is a wasted opportunity for many who are accepted and would do the minimum or Buddha Loves You and moan to administration rather than work harder to pass the course.

For some careers, college is not required.  In this sense, yes, it is poorly used time to spend 4 years on a GenEd degree if you want to be a plumber or some other skilled vocation that you won't learn in this type of school.  I doubt many of us could afford to sacrifice 4 years of income (let alone tuition money)  just to spend that time in college. 

Still, I agree that the experiences are always valuable IF they are used as a chance to grow. 

My comments were in reply to Kasumis posting in which he claims the University system is ridiculous. Thats a fair comment and one to which he is entitled to. Things were a lot different 20yrs ago when I went and now the individual pays, that wasnt the case for me......I even got a grant to go. The fact you will be in debt after graduation shouldnt put someone off. I have been in debt since I left for Gods- sake, mortgages, family, endless bills etc.

If i had to pay for all four years of college...it would cost me $220,000 not including books...tell me that isnt rediculous...

Quote from: sledge on September 10, 2006, 06:14:22 AM
My comments were in reply to Kasumis posting in which he claims the University system is ridiculous. Thats a fair comment and one to which he is entitled to. Things were a lot different 20yrs ago when I went and now the individual pays, that wasnt the case for me......I even got a grant to go. The fact you will be in debt after graduation shouldnt put someone off. I have been in debt since I left for Gods- sake, mortgages, family, endless bills etc.

When I was Kasumi's age, college would have been completely wasted on me. So much was going on in my young life that education just seemed beside the point...it seemed pointless. Fortunately, life straightened itself out a bit eventually, and I did complete my education (for now...who knows what degree(s) I'll go for in the future).

My own son took some time off from college, but his employer is now paying for his education, so he's back at it (and I'm a happy mama!!!!!!!). Sometimes these things reallyl work out.

There are SO many good reasons to go to college, and personal enrichment (if one can afford to get personally enriched without going personally broke  :laugh:) is just as valid as any other reason, IMHO. I hope my GS son changes his mind eventually. ;)

And I completely agree with sledge where he suggests that it's not a bad thing to go into debt getting one's education. Ask any financial planner, and I think the answer one will generally get is that education debt is GOOD debt (my student loan interest is 4%, and it'll be 3% soon). I consolidated, and the payments are low. Making payments consistently is excellent for one's credit history, and one will rarely find money offered at such a low interest rate. Now, having said that, it's also best to borrow as little as possible. Work as much as you can without affecting your schooling, and borrow as little as possible. It can be done! :thumb:

Think about this, if no one was dedicated and commited enough to follow a career path and study at university, within a generation there would be no....doctors and dentists, lawyers, management professionals, teachers, scientists, clerics civil-engineers etc etc etc. Within 2 generations we would be falling back into the dark-ages.

If they taught you waht you actually needed to know for those when you first went to school..or spent the entire time teaching you things (say for medical start you doing stuff related to actual medical stuff right away and spent 8 years teaching you concepts and medical info) Instead of the crap they make you go through for no reason..theyd never make money and thats what its all about...its stupid....

I have to disagree.  A broad background isn't a bad thing.  If you decided you wanted to be a doctor and did nothing but learn biology, then how would things like MRI machines and artificial hearts have ever been developed. 

My suggestion would be to take off the blinders and look at reality.  Colleges don't have a stranglehold on information, although I'm sure they would prefer it that way.  You can learn just as much, if not more, by spending 4 years in the spare bedroom and the garage gaining and applying knowledge.  It's a question if dicipline.  Either you have it or you don't.   

The problem with the basement approach is that you don't have anyone to guide your learning; people who have the experience that you don't.  It's like my friend the programmer mentioned above.  He got interested in firmware design.  Specifically he wanted to design a controller.  He could tinker, and design something that kinda' worked, but he didn't have the theoretical background to understand it.  He wanted to design a PID (proportional integral derivative) controller, but he didn't know Laplace Transforms.  He couldn't understand Laplace Transforms because he didn't have the prerequisite Calculus and Differential Equations background.  Without that, it's difficult to design an effective controller because you don't have the ability to model the things you are controlling.  Without being able to quantify their operational characteristics, you can't design a controller for it effectively.

Those are applicable concepts though...thats why I said CONCEPTS AND INFO...now you tell me why id need a damn philosophy or economics class to save someones life? Or why one of the best colleges in the US doesnt offer sign language as a language option especially when one of their largest programs is pre-med (you MUST be fluent in at least a second language before you can graduate despite your major)

Quote from: Egaeus on September 10, 2006, 06:11:25 PM
The problem with the basement approach is that you don't have anyone to guide your learning; people who have the experience that you don't. 

That's why you have to learn to network.  I'd rather learn from people out in the field who are actually DOING it than hearing some rusty old instructor wax on about something he's never experienced.   :)

Quote from: GeeP on September 11, 2006, 06:11:35 PM
That's why you have to learn to network.  I'd rather learn from people out in the field who are actually DOING it than hearing some rusty old instructor wax on about something he's never experienced.   :)

College isn't for everyone! There are many ways to learn, and being an apprentice of sorts is one of them (that's how I learned glass blowing). I'm not disciplined enough to learn loads of info on my own, so college worked for me!  :)

Quote from: pandy on September 11, 2006, 06:16:17 PM

Quote from: GeeP on September 11, 2006, 06:11:35 PM
That's why you have to learn to network. I'd rather learn from people out in the field who are actually DOING it than hearing some rusty old instructor wax on about something he's never experienced. :)

College isn't for everyone! There are many ways to learn, and being an apprentice of sorts is one of them (that's how I learned glass blowing). I'm not disciplined enough to learn loads of info on my own, so college worked for me! :)

Nor is an apprenticeship (in lieu of college) suitable for every profession. 

Quote from: Egaeus on September 13, 2006, 08:24:07 AM
Nor is an apprenticeship (in lieu of college) suitable for every profession. 

And the "stating the obvious" award goes to.....Egaeus!  :thumb: :laugh:

Quote from: pandy on September 13, 2006, 09:35:31 AM

Quote from: Egaeus on September 13, 2006, 08:24:07 AM
Nor is an apprenticeship (in lieu of college) suitable for every profession. 

And the "stating the obvious" award goes to.....Egaeus!  :thumb: :laugh:

Except that it seemed that the opposite was being argued earlier.  Personally, if I'm charged for murder, I want someone who went to law school to defend me, and if I need an operation, the person operating on me had better have gone to medical school.  I'd rather fly in a plane designed by someone who's gone to engineering school.  Sure there may be one person in a (multi?) million who can learn those things in their basement, but I'm not going to trust my life to them....

If there's an apprenticeship for becoming a lawyer that makes law school obsolete, please send the info my way! (And I'd prefer the one-year program, please!)  :icon_mrgreen:

You can take the Louisiana bar exam and practice law there without going to law school.

I think I've heard that one can do that here in Cali (or that was the way it was in the past)..... but...then I'd have to study...  :bs: I'm not ready to study more yet....  :o

Quote from: Onlypastrana199 on September 10, 2006, 06:47:36 AM
If i had to pay for all four years of college...it would cost me $220,000 not including books...tell me that isnt rediculous...

I'm not sure how the hell you got that figure so high, I know Colgate is right up there and I'm paying 45k/ year. Well, I'm actually not paying that much because of masses of financial aid, but thats another story... Yale's telling me 45,850 including room and board... I know you're not a math major but I don't see how that gets you to 220k.

Anyway back on topic, I think that the college experience depends a lot on the type of school. My school is about 2,800 students, and I'm really happy that I ended up in a liberal arts school. There aren't really any people going to college as a step to getting a job they know they want, but more people who enjoy learning and actually want to be there. I don't want to overgeneralize of course, we are D1 so a lot of our athletes are dumb as hell, but the non-meathead sports still have a lot of smart, motivated people in them. The thing I really like about liberal arts is that I had no idea what I wanted to do before I came in, took classes in a bunch of areas, and figured out what I was interested in. I felt like I had total control the whole time, and didn't have to worry about switching schools or anything to study the things I wanted to. I haven't learned anything directly applicable to any career, but I've learned a lot of skills which are pretty relevant to work of any type. Critical thinking, analysis, other hard to define but handy skills. Pastrana's posts seem to be directly challenging the idea behind liberal arts schools, and I disagree with her. I think that a philosophy class or an econ class will help her understand better how the world works, in a nonquantifiable but ultimately useful way. Besides, you find things that you enjoy. Colgate stuck me in a Middle East class and I found out that I really enjoy studying it. My philosophy classes have been really interesting, as have my political science classes. Its hard to understand wtf is going on in the world without a broad background that crosses disciplines. I'm sure that your sign language experience is irritating, but you can hardly condemn an entire system for a small failing like that.

I'm in a different position now because I'm taking the LSAT with the intent of eventually going to law school. I'm planning on working for a couple years but I have to admit that my motivation for law school is largely to put off the real world. Also, I like money.

Colgate still has all the usual crap with freshmen coming in which has been so appropriately addressed already, but once they figure things out they get cooler. Here the school doubles the size of the town as well, but luckily the freshmen are too clueless to know where to go. And they can't get into any of the bars.  :laugh:

I just wrote a f'ing dissertation on the subject only to lose the connection....fak.

Quote from: pandy on September 11, 2006, 06:16:17 PM
(that's how I learned glass blowing).

I had forgotten that Pandy blows glass.  :icon_mrgreen:

Seriously, thats pretty sweet. I watched some people do it out in Montreal, pretty amazing the control they had.

That was many moons ago. That's the hardest I've ever worked! :o I think I still have the first dorky little bud vase I ever blew. It looks like a first-grader's art piece ... from the reject pile.  :icon_mrgreen:

Quote from: pandy on September 18, 2006, 10:51:36 AM
That was many moons ago. That's the hardest I've ever worked! :o I think I still have the first dorky little bud vase I ever blew. It looks like a first-grader's art piece ... from the reject pile.  :icon_mrgreen:

Still though i have seen glass blowers at work and it looks very interesting and hard cause you have to heat the glass to the perfect temp.  thats cool pandy :thumb: