OK Israel is fighting in Gaza against muslim radicals. This is Jews Vs Muslims. And has been on since 1967 is the current format right.
India is fighting Radical islam militants or atleast investigating them from the attacks a month ago. Hindu's vs muslims from 1949 in the present format.
Needless to say US is fighting radical islam militants in Afghanisthan and Iraq. Basically Christians vs muslims since 2002.
The USSR did somehting similar but US supported the muslims then. Commies vs muslims from 1980-1988 or so.
So really are muslims the problem. Trust me, it takes a lot to offend a hindu into a fight thanks atleast in part to Gandhi.
Other than this, muslims are fighting with each other (sheites wanna kill sunni's and vice versa) and fighting Kurds.
That is lets count here, 3 billion Christians and jews, 1.5 billion commies, 1 billion Hindu's. 5.5 billion people. Isn't that Idiotic. How can you fight against every other religion in the world. If it was purely religious wont there be a massive christian vs Hindu or Jew vs Hindu or Buddhist vs christian or this or that.
The thing I have noticed about Islam is - if you dont agreed with their point of view, its natural to turn to terror. Its a natural extension of the religion (its in the Qu'ran - how to amass an army and how to do this or that) and as such it is in the case of a country its part of the constitution and part of their foreign policy. Plain and simple. You lose an argument cos your stand is incorrect and you should pull a gun and shoot the one that argued with you. That in a word sums it up.
BTW India has started a troop build up on the border with pakisthan after proving that Pakisthan's Intelligence agency had a part in the attacks in India causing pakisthan to pull its troops off the border with afghanisthan. The natural side effect of this was the strike that killed Al Qaida leaders hiding in Pakisthan. Getting pakisthan to remove troops from fighting terror in the afghanisthan area has advanced the cause of the US fight against Al Qaida. As in they were protecting them and now that they had to be deployed against India, the terrorists were left without cover.
In the case of Israel, I just hope they can re occupy Gaza and west bank, they seem to be the only country that is making serious gains in the fight against radical islam.
Cool.
Buddha.
I agree with alot of that.... as non PC as it is. Being PC is way overrated.
Political correctness is based upon a belieif that is fervently enforced by the media that believes that "it is possible to pick up a turd by its clean end".
I think that is someon's sig on sv650 forum.
Cool.
Buddha.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
I must not have read it too good when I went there.
The whole text is -
'Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.'
Its the SV1000 site.
Cool.
Buddha.
Agreed 1000% Buddha.
I get a kick out of people who say we must negotiate with radical muslims.
It's impossible to negotiate a compromise with someone whose sole goal is to see you dead.
That's all they want. Period.
As bad as it sounds, the only choice is do you let them kill you? or do you chose to live?
BeSafe
PJ
Quote from: PuddleJumper on January 09, 2009, 01:44:36 PM
Agreed 1000% Buddha.
I get a kick out of people who say we must negotiate with radical muslims.
It's impossible to negotiate a compromise with someone whose sole goal is to see you dead.
That's all they want. Period.
As bad as it sounds, the only choice is do you let them kill you? or do you chose to live?
BeSafe
PJ
+1000
Well, you know they think if they die in their Jihad that the will get 23 Virgins in the here after. What they forgot to tell them is that the Virgins will stay that way! Wouldn't that be a just punishment for the guys 23 hot girls they can never have.
Sorry, still drugged from my nine day hospital stay!
Mary
and people support the , radical muslims in this country, err in gaza that is. gripe about israel, yet say nothign about the people in gaza launging rockets INTO israeli cities, or their suicide bombers, err homicide bombers. some in certain groups in this country applaud them as heroes. the radicals want those who are not liek them , dead, and well it wil be a never ending fight. most muislims are fairly peaceable people as ar emost christians and most athiests etc. a very small percentage are the exact opposite. almost liek the 1% rule in biker gangs
Hmmm, interesting post. I agree with quite a lot. I don't agree that "muslims are the problem" I would say that organised religion is the problem, I mean when did atheists or agnostics invade anyone or start a crusade? The problem is people who are sure that they are right! They are the people that start jihad or crusades, people who are less than 100% cetain don't start wars do they?
India and Pakistan have been squaring-up to one another since Ghandi and Jinnah went for partition when they got the brits out in 1948, if it's not Kashmir or the Sihks it's some other point of friction, settle it with a best of five test match series (cricket) much more entertaining and cheaper than a nuclear war.On current form India should walk it so cheer up Buddha.
p.s. with a handle like Buddha, what about Buhdists? they seem to preach tolerance which is a great way to celebrate everyone else's festivals and as far as I am aware don't want to kill anybody, perhaps there is hope for religion after all, but probably not much. Atheism - one life - live it to the full 'cos there aint no more.
Quote from: Cal Price on January 10, 2009, 04:51:31 AM
Hmmm, interesting post. I agree with quite a lot. I don't agree that "muslims are the problem" I would say that organised religion is the problem, I mean when did atheists or agnostics invade anyone or start a crusade? The problem is people who are sure that they are right! They are the people that start jihad or crusades, people who are less than 100% cetain don't start wars do they?
India and Pakistan have been squaring-up to one another since Ghandi and Jinnah went for partition when they got the brits out in 1948, if it's not Kashmir or the Sihks it's some other point of friction, settle it with a best of five test match series (cricket) much more entertaining and cheaper than a nuclear war.On current form India should walk it so cheer up Buddha.
p.s. with a handle like Buddha, what about Buhdists? they seem to preach tolerance which is a great way to celebrate everyone else's festivals and as far as I am aware don't want to kill anybody, perhaps there is hope for religion after all, but probably not much. Atheism - one life - live it to the full 'cos there aint no more.
see cal that seems to blame it on religion in general, but it seems as though a group, christians muslims etc , a small percaentage. not all religiopus ar eliek this. but many in the non religious communities seem to think otherwise. not saying you are this way. but it seems to be a general find on most forums or in many group discussions. most religious are going to be some odf the most compassionate peopel one could want to meet. same with the non religious. , but a select few seem to tarnish that image
Cal Price: It would be much easier to justify killing somone using atheistic beliefs than using Jesus' teaching. Anyone who actually understands Christianity will never start a crusade or anything like it. Violence and forcing religion isn't anywhere near what Christ taught. Sooo.... yeah you can quit being afraid of us now ;)
I don't think anyone thinks Muslims are the problem. It's the Radical Muslims that are the problem.
they even kill their own if they make a mistake.
Besafe
PJ
Weston, I aint afraid, I just don't have much time for religion(s)
As an atheist i am quite prepared to believe that a man called Jesus existed and was a charismatic leader/teacher/preacher and I'm sure what he taught about the way we should behave towards one another was sensible, I have no argument with that. on the other hand look at what has been done by his so-called followers over the years, the evil and the harm done by "christians" as well as other religions as well.
Like I said, enjoy your life, you only get one.
Anyone seen the Morgan Spurlock film: "Where in the world is Osama Bin Laden" ? Though not the focus it definitely touches on the fact that most Muslims are very peaceful and considerate people. It also has a segment with a group of Hassidic Jews attacking Morgan and his cameraman without provocation before Israeli 5-0 breaks things up.
Quote from: Cal Price on January 10, 2009, 07:03:36 PM
Weston, I aint afraid, I just don't have much time for religion(s)
As an atheist i am quite prepared to believe that a man called Jesus existed and was a charismatic leader/teacher/preacher and I'm sure what he taught about the way we should behave towards one another was sensible, I have no argument with that. on the other hand look at what has been done by his so-called followers over the years, the evil and the harm done by "christians" as well as other religions as well.
Like I said, enjoy your life, you only get one.
his so called followers, NOT FOLLOWING. all groups of believers, and non believers have done this. most who follow a teaching of one religion or another, will not do these horrible things. you may not have time for religion, that ill respect. but amny of us do. those of us whom are religios as far as i know arent killing anyone or starting wars, so that basically kills the religios are responsible for... line. like weston said, radical ( insert group of believer/non believer here) religious, and onn religious radicals have started wars, and athiests too. but we all as human beings, can live by one of gods teachings, and do well to do so. love one another. ( and no not in a sexual nature either. lol)
.
Hi,
This is just one of those "pass around" emails that you sometimes get. I don't know a thing about the origin but the point is quite accurate and astute. I've edited it just a bit to take out the "send this email to everyone you know" parts.
Thank you for your indulgence,
BassCliff
********Begin Quoted Material**********
German friend of mine sent this to me, thought it a good read....
A man, whose family was German aristocracy prior to World War II, owned a number of large industries and estates. When asked how many German people were true Nazis, the answer he gave can guide our attitude toward fanaticism. 'Very few people were true Nazis,' he said, 'but many enjoyed the return of German pride, and many more were too busy to care. I was one of those who just thought the Nazis were a bunch of fools. So, the majority just sat back and let it all happen. Then, before we knew it, they owned us, and we had lost control, and the end of the world had come. My family lost everything. I ended up in a concentration camp and the Allies destroyed my factories.
We are told again and again by 'experts' and 'talking heads' that Islam is the religion of peace, and that the vast majority of Muslims just want to live in peace. Although this unqualified assertion may be true, it is entirely irrelevant. It is meaningless fluff, meant to make us feel better, and meant to somehow diminish the spectra of fanatics rampaging across the globe in the name of Islam. The fact is that the fanatics rule Islam at this moment in history. It is the fanatics who march. It is the fanatics who wage any one of 50 shooting wars worldwide. It is the fanatics who systematically slaughter Christian or tribal groups throughout Africa and are gradually taking over the entire continent in an Islamic wave. It is the fanatics who bomb, behead, murder or honor-kill. It is the fanatics who take over mosque after mosque. It is the fanatics who zealously spread the stoning and hanging of rape victims and homosexuals. It is the fanatics who teach their young to kill and to become suicide bombers.
The hard quantifiable fact is that the peaceful majority, the 'silent majority,' is cowed and extraneous. Communist Russia was comprised of Russians who just wanted to live in peace, yet the Russian Communists were responsible for the murder of about 20 million people. The peaceful majority were irrelevant. China's huge population was peaceful as well, but Chinese Communists managed to kill a staggering 70 million people. The average Japanese individual prior to World War II was not a war mongering sadist. Yet, Japan murdered and slaughtered its way across South East Asia in an orgy of killing that included the systematic murder of 12 million Chinese civilians; most killed by sword, shovel, and bayonet. And who can forget Rwanda which collapsed into butchery. Could it not be said that the majority of Rwandans were 'peace loving'?
History lessons are often incredibly simple and blunt, yet for all our powers of reason we often miss the most basic and uncomplicated of points: Peace-loving Muslims have been made irrelevant by their silence. Peace-loving Muslims will become our enemy if they don't speak up, because like my friend from Germany , they will awaken one day and find that the fanatics own them, and the end of their world will have begun. Peace-loving Germans, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Rwandans, Serbs, Afghans, Iraqis, Palestinians, Somalis, Nigerians, Algerians and many others have died because the peaceful majority did not speak up until it was too late. As for us who watch it all unfold, we must pay attention to the only group that counts; the fanatics who threaten our way of life. Lastly, anyone who doubts that the issue is serious and remains silent is contributing to the passiveness that allows the problems to expand. So, extend yourself a bit and pass this on and on and on! Let us hope that thousands, world wide, read this and think about it, and pass it on before it's too late.
So true.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph [of evil] is for good men to do nothing."
Edmund Burke.
" If you know you are going to be in a gun fight, Make sure you have it in the other guys house"
Louis L'Amour
BeSafe
PJ
It not the religon itself that is a problem. It's the manipulation of religon for political gain and personal power that is the problem. It's weak minded people clinging to the hope that Osama, Obama, your priest, a cleric, a oman, a shaman or any one of a thousand other shills can fill the empty spot that seems to be in nearly everyone. What better way than to convince them they and they alone will be going to the happy hunting ground and all others are inferior sloped headed dolts.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not aginst spirtuality. What I am dead set aginst is the holier than thou crowd that looks down on those who do not believe the same as them. The being that set our little experiment on Earth in motion could not be nearly as intolerant as these clowns make it out to be. These snake oil salesmen just keep their flocks on a leash with a very simple con. Things will be better when your dead if you kill this or donate that or build another thing for me...errr God/Allah/Johova/Kalie/Oden/Zuse/the Great Pumpkin.
This is knee jerk reaction, any policy or regional analyst will tell you the people who become radical Islamists come from f'ed up places and situations. If those situations didn't exist for whatever reason, there wouldn't be such a problem. If it wasn't radical Islam, somebody would start a Pakistani Crips gang and it would all go downhill from there.
aye there have baan radical ( insert group here) since there has been groups of people. and unfortunately i dont see this ending any time soon
Been there, done that.
Some of you come close, but none of you have a clue, as usual. Not your fault.
So sad to see everybody always grasping at ways to interpret this, and always coming up short.
I could tell you guys so much, and you'd forget it in 5 minutes. But, what does it matter, when you're can just lock your door, right?
But, what do I know...
This is the forum where guys feel comfortable alluding to themselves as vigilantes because they don't like their neighbors, of course.
Such big talk; such little people.
So... I dont really know what your trying to say. Here is what i got from it: I know more than all you guys but im not going to talk about it...then somthing about vigilantees and neighbors.
light travels faster than sound. this is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak. :thumb: :laugh:
I sorta will agree with Cal's point. The part he's not explicitly saying is this ... atheists usually are governed by a moral code. Its almost as if their internal consciousness says, "you've given up the fact that there is god you moron, now you better be extra nice or you're going to a double secret hell".
And they cant say, "die in the name of allah you infidel".
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: jserio on January 13, 2009, 11:38:54 AM
light travels faster than sound. this is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak. :thumb: :laugh:
:icon_lol: :tongue2:
Quote from: Weston on January 13, 2009, 09:37:11 AM
So... I dont really know what your trying to say. Here is what i got from it: I know more than all you guys but im not going to talk about it...then somthing about vigilantees and neighbors.
Yeah, I actually do know more. This guy agrees:
http://www.amazon.com/Sleeping-Custer-7th-Cavalry-Embedded/dp/0809326728 (http://www.amazon.com/Sleeping-Custer-7th-Cavalry-Embedded/dp/0809326728)
He was an inbed with my unit when we led OIF I.
Here's a few more guys that agree with me:
http://www.amazon.com/Generation-Kill-Evan-Wright/dp/0425224740/ref=pd_sim_b_3 (http://www.amazon.com/Generation-Kill-Evan-Wright/dp/0425224740/ref=pd_sim_b_3)
http://www.amazon.com/No-True-Glory-Frontline-Fallujah/dp/0553383191/ref=pd_sim_b_4 (http://www.amazon.com/No-True-Glory-Frontline-Fallujah/dp/0553383191/ref=pd_sim_b_4)
(We bailed those guys out. Marines whine when they start getting shot at.)
http://www.amazon.com/Chasing-Ghosts-Failures-Soldiers-Perspective/dp/B0017I0KWC/ref=pd_sim_b_1 (http://www.amazon.com/Chasing-Ghosts-Failures-Soldiers-Perspective/dp/B0017I0KWC/ref=pd_sim_b_1)
Your reponse, and others like it, are exactly the reason why I don't bother telling you more than I do.
The type of folks that think they know exactly what it's like when your LT tells you to take out a car full of "terrorists". Then they turn out to be a refugee family, and you watch a little girl fall out of the back seat.
Or when you spend a night taking headshots on "terrorists" hiding in a wheat field, and they turn out to be farmers hiding from our tanks.
Or you watch a grown man stand in front of a tank with just an AK, and realize he's a braver son of a b1tch than you are. But, you shoot him anyway. Then, the liason tells you afterward that Iraqi soldiers families were held captive until they had shot at least one full magazine.
Then, you come home, and watch people treat everyone in the exact same manner, except without rifles, every single day.
People don't have a clue about the things I've seen, and don't really give a crap, anyway. Just keep going to church, and listening to what the guy in front tells you.
I await another snappy retort.
I will say that was a much more compelling post than your first. I understand that war is a terrible terrible thing. I don't think you understand what the guy in the front preaches in my church. Its far less political or war related than you may think. I'm not sure what you mean by "the same things without rifles" though. Are you saying that we are just the same as radical islam here? Or that Christianity is the same principle as radical islam? Because its not.
Yes, it's exactly what I'm saying.
Saw a guy in another platoon blow up an entire bus of refugees with a HEAT round. He laughed about it for weeks, kids running around like cartoon characters on fire. Southern baptist bible-thumper.
Knew another guy that loved to hit taxis, even after we told him they were refugees trying to get out. His platoon sergeant thought it was hilarious.
My first real firefight was outside of a little farming town. Farmers trying to fight a troop of tanks with rifles and crappy little Russian mortars. Maybe you'd have done the same thing, if some other country's tanks were rolling through your town? Their wives were picking up the bodies at 3 in the morning with wheelbarrows and donkey carts, walking right through lines of fire. CO thought it was great to call in A-10's, dropped two 500 lb bombs on them, wives and all.
They say that radical Muslims like to hide in crowds so they won't get shot, and yes, they do. I've seen it. Didn't seem very radical to me. Seemed more like somebody that's scared. Saw the gunner try to shoot him, anyway. So, which is more radical? A guy in a tank getting shot by a guy in with an AK? Sounds pretty brave to me.
At the time, we all thought these things were acceptable, too. Saying that a farmer's shovel looked just like an RPG, just so you could win a headshot competition. And on, and on, and on.
So, what's the difference between an American soldier and a radical Islamic terrorist, or any other kid trying to live up to what his society tells him to do for respect? We do what we're led to believe.
But, don't listen to me.
Listen to vets of all the other wars we've had.
Quote from: wladziu on January 15, 2009, 08:52:01 PM
So, what's the difference between an American soldier and a radical Islamic terrorist, or any other kid trying to live up to what his society tells him to do for respect? We do what we're led to believe.
But, don't listen to me.
Listen to vets of all the other wars we've had.
If you've seen the Band of Brothers series, this point is made really well in the last episode when a captured German General addresses his troops for the last time.
My truck was almost hit by an IED, the second time I was there. Still have a piece of shrapnel from the crater it left, got it sitting on my bookshelf. I'll take a picture of it, if you want.
They blew the thing too early. So, I wasn't just some hippie hiding behind a few feet of armor.
But, who am I kidding. You guys know more than me and the other vets.
Hence, my first seemingly cryptic posting.
Guess it isn't really "bright", as the guy said, to hope someone might listen.
And, to that other British kid that was talking on that other thread about refugees from Kosovo "invading" his town. I was sent there a month after my wedding. Our mission in Kosovo was one of the only things in the military that I was actually proud of.
Unless there are mass burial pits scattered around your region or all the orphans live in the town garbage dump (living off of dead mules and horses), then why complain about people leaving such conditions? Inconvenience?
Women and their babies dying because the hospitals won't let them in to give birth, because they're not Roman Catholic (and thus, unclean). People getting killed in retaliation, and so on, and on, and on. But, that's all over, now. Hope it didn't inconvenience you too much, or your "clean" town.
Quote from: spc on January 15, 2009, 09:16:38 PM
If you've seen the Band of Brothers series, this point is made really well in the last episode when a captured German General addresses his troops for the last time.
I can't watch those shows anymore, but I can imagine what you mean. Wish people would listen to stuff like that. But, I didn't before I became a vet. Guess I can't blame them.
I realize it's hard to listen to that type of thing, when you think your ideals on the matter are what keep you safe. Especially when we're being told so many opposing points by so many respected people. It's hard to question them.
But, one day you might get to see a buddy's brain matter on the road, getting run over like pieces of a dead squirrel. Or dogs fighting over some guy's arm. Or a little girl laying face down on a highway with blood on her dress, wishing she'd get up and run away because it would mean your buddy's aren't as evil as everybody else.
People do extremely cruel things to each other every single day (like I said), even in the stupid grocery store. Whether if it's with a rifle or a car, or just treating each other like crap. It's the same crap, for the same reasons. Just trying to squeeze out a little place where you and your family can live in peace, have enough to eat and keep yourselves clean. The screwed up part comes when people (especially teenage/twenty-something boys) try to earn respect. Or, when people think they deserve a little bit more than the other guy.
First I'm sorry that someone " saying they are a Christian" did not represent what Christ wants us to be. I try my best to be a humble person because I am not a good enough person to enter heaven on my own. Honesty, I don't think there is a soul on this planet can say I have never done wrong. If you have be the first to throw a stone at me! I attend a Southern Baptist church and while I cannot speak for everyone there I know many of them walk the walk instead of talk the talk. You know it is not just the soldier that sees tragedy. I've been shot at and once was almost choked out with my own stethoscope in the back of an ambulance. I've had to hide behind an ambulance while a raging husband shot his wife in front of me and I had to watch her die because I could not approach 'till the police arrived. After the four hurricanes hit Fl in 2006 I had to walk the woods and drag out the homeless people that died because they didn't think a shelter would take them in. But, we signed up for this we knew what the game was and yeah we have to live with the consequences and the rewards that came with our chosen profession.
I tried to walk this journey alone and it did not work. For so many years I held hate for God because I could not comprehend the senselessness and bad in this world. I mean why would God give me parents that tried to kill me! Or why did I get heart failure at 21. Why because it made me who I am. It took me almost dying in an ICU bed with noone who knew me for hundreds of miles away to realize I was not alone and that there was an unconditional love that no human could ever give me. And it was Christians who took me in when I could not make it home. They didn't know me but that didn't matter they said "never turn away a stranger because it could be angels you are hosting". When I was 25 I first stepped into a church. I was always told that you gotta dress up, you gotta act a certain way, you gotta do certain things. As I stood there in shorts and t-shirt weak, hurting and well dying. The preacher walked up to me and asked why hadn't I let Him in. How could he have even known that no one even knew me in that small town. And while I had bargained with God in the hospital bed this is when I let the anger go. The Pastor wanted to do baptism right then because there is no time like the present. I informed him that I just had a defibrillator implanted and could not be immersed. So, we did it in the Kitchen sink! I promised that when I got back home I would look up a church and start going. Well, we know how life goes I left there in September. In March I was back in ICU with heart failure yet again. I was on my last car payment but could not make it so they were trying to reposses it. While I was trying to figure out what I was going to do I got a call from a pastor at First Baptist of Kissimmee he said that someone from Lake City had called them that I needed a good church home and if I wanted to come in and talk. I explained to him where I was. He asked what could they do to help me " my last car payment would be nice!" I didn't know what I would do without a car probably die cause I wouldn't make it to my doctors. He said when I get out to stop by the church. When I got out I'm like what do I got to lose. I came in spoke with the pastor and they cut a check right then and there for a person they didn't even know. So, I've been going there ever since. When I lost my insurance a physician at the Church saw me for free and got me my heart medication.
So, while I have met many "hypocritical Christians" my life has also been saved on many occasions by real Christians. I just wish that my actions show those of a real Christian. We all fall short of God but it is a good feeling to be forgiven.
I apologise if I offended anyone but I don't like to be stereotyped either!
Mary
agreed, im a southern baptist but i do NOT go our of my way to ffend people or even try to. ive seen vbloodshed, ive been part of a volunteer rescue squad, , in my town. i had to retrieve a headless body from the river from a guy trying to cross a railroad bridge, and then find his head, that was f%$king nasty, first time i ever saw something like that, and tbh i lsot my lunch
That's awesome Mary. Couldn't agree more. wladziu, I'm sorry for what you have seen from so called Christians. I'm not going to say that were perfect, but if someone is truely following Christ's teaching, you would hear more stories like Mary's and see less things like your friend that blew up the bus and laughed about it. I understand that people do stupid hurtful things to each other all the time;(Its refered to in the Bible as our sinful nature) but that is why we need God. He helps us overcome it.
aye wladziu, what your friends did, was not christian like, not at all. basically it was like what weston said. i like the saying, let ye who is sinless cast the first stone. and after many years ive yet to see any rocks flying
If you believe Christianity helps you be a better person, then that's awesome.
However, there's a certain loophole that I'm severely aware of:
http://www.akroaterion.org/Newsite/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14&Itemid=44 (http://www.akroaterion.org/Newsite/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14&Itemid=44)
In case you don't wanna read the entire thing; if you're a soldier following orders, "Thou shalt not kill" does not apply to you.
About halfway through OIF 1, I was having a real problem with this. As the article says, should the correct terminology be "murder" or actually "kill"? And, at what point does it become murder, if both soldiers are equally standing up for themselves? I could go on, but I'm sure that no one wants to hear it.
See, these are not things that most people bother (or care) to think about, because it doesn't really concern them. But, it's very real to me.
This applies to the conversation, on the subject of radical religions. Apparently, I don't have the vocabulary to convey my thoughts the way I'd like, which is part of my frustration. Not just you guys. Plus, I'm a Quaker, which is even more frustrating nowadays.
Quote from: nightrider on January 12, 2009, 09:27:47 PM
This is knee jerk reaction, any policy or regional analyst will tell you the people who become radical Islamists come from f'ed up places and situations. If those situations didn't exist for whatever reason, there wouldn't be such a problem. If it wasn't radical Islam, somebody would start a Pakistani Crips gang and it would all go downhill from there.
This is absolutely correct.
100%
fun bags and taters
If it's not readily apparent from the situation over the past few years, trying to control this dynamic with police action and violence just "stirs the pot" even more. Round and round we go, so to speak.
Not to be esoteric, but there are other ways of going about it.
And, in my opinion, those are the things we should be talking about.
Actually, on our Wednesday night services we are discussing this. We started studying the book of Judges. I guess the first question I asked the pastor is why would God tell the Isrealites to Kill the Philistines. he said that for many years God had tolerated their false worship and vile ways. For fertility they worshipped a god named Baal and the "sacrafice" was to have sex with a prostitute in the temple. So, because they defiled God and his word it was their punishment. They killed 10,000 and cut off the thumbs and big toes of the Kings. why the toes and the thumb because without the thumb they could not pick up a sword and without a big toe they could not run away. So, why were the Isrealites later punished in Judges because they disobeyed God by not killing the Philistines. So why was that so bad. Because, then the Philistines intermarried and passed on their paganism to the Isrealites and they disregarded God so then they to must be punished but then this was after many generations of non obedience.
So not everybody lives their life in a shell and not think about what others go through. BTW why did you pick the military as your career if I was this conflicted about it I would have at least waited to make this choice.
Another thing my Chaplin friend talked to me about before I became a Christian that made a lot of sense. He said think about this if I'm a true Christian that means I live a just life, I do good things for people, and am a good citizen. If I'm right at the end of my life I will go to heaven and receive a new body and be with Christ. Now if I'm wrong then I die at the end of my life and that's it I still lived a full life. Now what if I'm a non-Christian I will still probably be a good person do good things and the sort and when I die that's it. Now what if I'm wrong and a non-Christian when judgement day comes and God looks at all of my inequities I am then doomed to hell because no human is sinless. So, as a Christian what do I have to lose nothing? If I'm non-Christian and there is a judgement day what do i have to lose? Everything.
Now that's not why I became a Christian but to a logical person it makes a lot of sense.
Mary
Quote from: Toogoofy317 on January 16, 2009, 12:06:16 AMBTW why did you pick the military as your career if I was this conflicted about it I would have at least waited to make this choice.
Covered that in a previous post. Then I started getting hallucinations from my moral structure breaking down. Shot a guy in the liver and realized I had fun doing it. Bye bye, psyche.
Pretty typical.
so you did that, and then said " f%$k this im done"?
Not exactly.
My platoon sergeant tried to leave my tank crew after our fuel pumps quit. That's strike two.
I stuck a piece of wire in the control system to jumpstart the pumps, but I'd forgotten which was the right hole. One in about 50 or so chance (50 slot panel) that I'd be electrocuted. Said goodbye to my wife and family in my head, told my crew that it was great serving with them.
f%$kers didn't bother saying thank you. Strike three, and I'm done.
Meanwhile, my platoon sergeant (same guy as above) got a Silver Star for "rescuing a soldier from a burning tank in a firefight". I watched the entire thing: no firefight (friendly fire incident, documented), soldier crawled out under his own power while this jacka$$ stood in front of the tank and yelled at him for being "too stupid to get out with the rest of his crew" (his words). SFC Camacho. Quite a guy.
Lives somewhere in Puerto Rico, now. Real hero :icon_rolleyes:
Edited for sounding like a little b!tch. Haha
I thought you were asking why I got out. Nevermind.
No, I shot that guy about halfway through. I kept fighting; didn't want the people behind us to get hurt in their little humvees. Somebody accused me of trying to sound pompous about that, but it's what I did. The best thing I could figure out to do.
Sucks pretty bad to have to keep shooting guys, though, when you're worried about being a murderer.
Hence, why I feel qualified to speak about radical Christians.
Much as I've been b!tching on here, I probably need one of these:
http://www.vagisilkit.com/kit2/index.shtml (http://www.vagisilkit.com/kit2/index.shtml)
My opinion is this. Religious beliefs aside, anyone who thinks it's a good idea to blow themselves up is a fundamentally flawed human being.
Quote from: godzillaburritomeat on January 17, 2009, 01:06:40 PM
My opinion is this. Religious beliefs aside, anyone who thinks it's a good idea to blow themselves up is a fundamentally flawed human being.
Not counting Kamikaze pilots etc, a bomb installed on a person who blew herself up - This was first done by an Sri lankan tamil tiger in 1990. That single act cost them the sympathy of Indian population. They killed Rajiv Gandhi who was the Indian Prime Minister at that time.
Religion had nothing to do with it.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: The Buddha on January 19, 2009, 09:45:56 AM
Religion had nothing to do with it.
That's why I said religious beliefs aside. They weren't the first to do it by a long shot, and they won't be the last. Religion really has nothing to do with it, it's the indoctrination by someone they hold great respect for (though who on earth would respect a guy that says "Go here and blow yourself up" when HE obviously isn't going to do it, seems kind of moronic to me. But hey, I'm an American so what do I know eh? :dunno_white: ) I think they'll eventually wipe themselves out though. There's probably as much hate for the different kinds of Islam as there is for us.
Quote from: The Buddha on January 19, 2009, 09:45:56 AM
Quote from: godzillaburritomeat on January 17, 2009, 01:06:40 PM
My opinion is this. Religious beliefs aside, anyone who thinks it's a good idea to blow themselves up is a fundamentally flawed human being.
Not counting Kamikaze pilots etc, a bomb installed on a person who blew herself up - This was first done by an Sri lankan tamil tiger in 1990. That single act cost them the sympathy of Indian population. They killed Rajiv Gandhi who was the Indian Prime Minister at that time.
Religion had nothing to do with it.
Cool.
Buddha.
"The first modern suicide bombing occurred in Iran in 1980 when 13-year old Hossein Fahmideh detonated himself as he ran up to an Iraqi tank at a key point in a battle of the Iran-Iraq War."
Wikianswers
Actually another attempt of suicide bombing occured in WWII. This was one such attempt:
Just a week after the failed attempt of March 13, Maj. Gen. Rudolph von Gersdorff volunteered to kill Hitler with a suicide bomb while the Führer inspected captured Soviet arms and equipment. Gersdorff planned to hug the Führer and explode a bomb in his greatcoat, but Hitler rushed through the exhibit before Gersdorff could detonate the bomb.
If it would have worked I think he may have been the first.
Mary
These may be teh first DOCUMENTED cases. perhaps there were those that never were seen/reported/documented?
I guess if you wanna go waay back Sampson could be considered a suicide (while technically not a bomber) killer. It is stated that he killed more in death than in life(book of Judges). So I guess it has been going on for millenia.
Mary
Sorry I actually forgot what I had heard back them. It was the first instance of a head of state assasinated by suicide bomb.
BTW muslims do some other ridiculous things.
You've heard of arranged marriages. The Indian style arranged marriage (hindu) has been much misconstrued, but typically they dont decide at the time they are kids or at any time before the people to be married hit what is called a marriageable age. Then they use a horoscope to match up to the other person. They also do a socio economic religious match. They also have a character match, like they wont marry a grease monkey like me to a clean freak like my wife. Or a drinker like me to a non drinker like my wife, or a scam artist like me to an honest abe like my wife ... or a liar like me ... you get the idea.
They dont want to look like beggars compared to the other person's family or vice versa. They also match future desires and decide if it works. Then the bride and groom to be meet, possibly just 1 time, maybe more than 1 time. They do get time to talk to each other in private a little. Then they decide with the final over rule being from the bride or groom. Its a marriage where a lot of arrangements including meeting is done before they meet. Ironically There is a lot of choice, no one is locked in till they are done meeting and talking. Agreed you dont know what a person will be like with just that, but its not as blind as its implied by the media. And on ocassion if the boy and girl decide to get married anyway and declare to their parents, they sometimes go through all the other steps in a way so as to peek into their future and see if any hiccups are comming down the road. They sorta believe in that horoscope business very deeply. Nice scam, and there are some serious software packages and this and that to do this. Really insane. Also in a lot of cases they match many people for 1 person in the span of a few months. The first ones who agree all the ones after that are cancelled.
I have seen muslims who actually are from say bangladesh who marry through a entirely blind arranged marriage someone from Morrocco. That is weird, even though I am well aware of the arranged marriage, but marrying someone you've never met from another country you've never been in is really weird to me. Maybe they have a crazy horoscope that really can very perfectly match to anyone in the world. I dunno.
And they also have dowry, and its not paid by the bride's family to the groom ahead of the wedding as used to be Hindu custom. Even though this has been effectively abolished, the new thing is that the bride's family drags the groom to a high end clothier and get tailored suits etc with cost no object type BS. Excellent, since I bought a $30 suit at an after christmas sale and took it to India. Booya, they were out 35 bucks, come on, the tie was 5 bucks.
The groom pays the bride's family after they spend the night together. If that's not weird, I dunno what is.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: The Buddha on January 20, 2009, 11:18:52 AM
marrying someone you've never met from another country you've never been in is really weird to me.
Kinda make you wonder about our country though, one of the guys in my old platoon was considering a mail-order bride...wonder if he ever did that.
Is the demonizing of the left hand common anywhere other than Islam?
Another thing, this wierd thing they have about NOT sitting on a toilet. They'll stand on it and crouch down. More often than not, missing the spot they're supposed to be aiming >:(
Left hand isn't demonised in India. We however dont use it for much cos its usually used to lets just say ... well ... in the bathroom.
And the hole in the ground method ... well you cannot sit on that ... really. It used to be the norm in countries without a full sewer system. They also cannot miss cos ... well, its where ever they hit that is the toilet. Open air baby ... you dont want to be down wind of that for sure.
I dunno what that is with respect to islam. Maybe they all are in the non indoor plumbing category ?? :dunno_black:
Cool.
Buddha.
Lmao you can so sit with the hole in the ground method. One of my platoon sergeants had this nifty chair he made with a hole in the middle, so yes you CAN :icon_razz:.
Dude ... only cos he needs it. They dont sit per say, they squat.
Cool.
Buddha.
I'm just sayin. :icon_lol:
Back to the original topic, the Israelis will probably kick their arses. You really shouldn't mess with them. They're gangsta :2guns: :2guns:
Note to other countries: Dont shoot missles at Israel. lol
i did the west bank think in 90 and i tell u those bastards are f%$king annoying, the arabs. palestine shmalistine i say send them to jordan