Embryonic stem cell research! Let's get crack-alackin' on growing our own organs, replacing the skin on critically burned little girls, and finding out what else we can do with those little gems!
Maybe one day women won't need to feel guilty for shacking up with the "bad boy" with muscles and a fast car, and then dumping the load on guys that go to church voluntarily! One wonders if a market will be started...
Sluts might one day be proud to say that "abortions tickle"!
All hail embryonic stem cells!
Discuss amongst yourselves, filthy monkeys. Riding around on your filthy two wheels.
Frustrated much ... w-lad.
BTW yea yea yea they say its the schnitz ... but you do know of cases where its not worked right. Cancers return, often more dangerously and several others.
Promising yea, but dont freaking come near me with that thing at this time.
Maybe in 20-30 years.
Cool.
Buddha.
Hey! Stop raining on my parade!
Besides, everyone on this forum has had (or is currently fighting) cancer. It's a natural human occurrence that normally gets resolved by natural-killer cells without making it's way to the lymphatic system. Ask an oncologist.
Time for me to do some research. Figure out which segment of the population most enjoys having their little bastard offspring sucked out of their rotten bleed-holes. Maybe they'll finally approve the take-home kit for Wal-mart drug aisles!
This could really take off! Better drop your condom shares!
"Next on Maury!
Shaneqqwa sold her fetus, but she's still making her loser boyfriend pay child support!"
I'm gonna start printing bumper stickers for strippers:
"This car fueled by stem cells and broken dreams"
If I have ESC's applied to road rash, could I qualify for dependent tax credits?
Maybe I could finally realize my hopes of researching large mass biological batteries.
Will trailer-park teenagers soon become the most influential segment of the population?
Will pimps now be funded under the Public Health Institute, as Supply Officers?
A tough one: If the pope is ill with a fatal condition only curable with ESC's, would he commit suicide by not allowing treatment?
even as a christian im somewhat stoked about this. BUT ive got reservations. if the cells are pulled from non viable embryos, then i can support it. but ive got reservations abotu other means. such as abortion
Given that there likely won't be any change in the abortion laws, shouldn't some good come from the situation?
I'm catholic and personally, I don't give a shaZam! what you do. If the kid comes out crying and you terminate it, you're a murderer, if it's not breathing on it's own just don't involve me in the process. Not my problem, not my place to impose my beliefs on others. Except for communism, I will f%$king kill the next communist prick @$$hole I meet that wants my f%$king tax money so they don't have to work.
Quote from: spc on March 11, 2009, 12:10:29 AM
Given that there likely won't be any change in the abortion laws, shouldn't some good come from the situation?
Yeah, it should. I'm just trying to start sh!t.
Abortion fights are funnier than watching Kimbo get knocked out.
In about 4 years, I'm gonna have to assist a few abortions. Oh, happy day. :icon_rolleyes:
I don't have a problem at all with stem cell research.
I have a problem with tax dollars funding it. Let's get one thing straight...there has never been a ban on the research. There has only been a ban on federal funding for it. And you know what? That's good. There is nothing that gives the federal government the power or authority to spend our tax dollars subsidizing a private corporation to do the research they want to do. If someone wants to do the research, by all means go ahead. But fund it yourself.
Some things will get killed by lack of federal funding. If feds wont fund anything at all then it is a bit more even playing field. Even so ...
Honestly the problem with democracy is the same as the problem with funding wihtout federal backing. The minority will get crushed.
The majority can vote to take away rights for the minority, and federal govt is needed to stop that. Same with federal funding and private funding.
Debilitating diseases that afflict the minority will be ignored for curing the discomfort of the majority.
Few dollars will go to any of the causes and they will just die.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: The Buddha on March 11, 2009, 08:47:03 AM
Debilitating diseases that afflict the minority will be ignored...
Not true at all, simply because of the profit incentive we have in this country. The person who finds a cure for those diseases is going to rake in the cash as a result. The desire to make a profit off the discovery is what drives innovation...not the goodness of their hearts. Sure, there are some people out there who truly do things just to help. But the vast majority of innovators and inventors do it because they recognize that the ability to offer a good or service no one else can means a big pay check. If there's a big pay-off waiting in the wings to whoever finds a cure, someone will find that cure...with or without tax money.
Ever heard of the National Institutes of Health? Funded by congress and responsible for authorizing grants responsible for staggering amounts of research?
We're not talking about gov't funding here, we're talking about fetus guts.
Come on, folks. Nobody's interested in a nation based on Christianity is sponsoring research on babies?
Ready..... Fight!
Sorry pal, I'm not for it but I will not set here and fight with you about it.
For me if I am going to fight with some one it will be about salvation.
All the other stuff are side issues.
and this is a MC fourum :cheers:
cafeboy
Quote from: wladziu on March 11, 2009, 10:24:35 AMWe're not talking about gov't funding here, we're talking about fetus guts.
Nope...try again. Your fight-picking skills need some work.
Quote from: wladziu on March 11, 2009, 10:24:35 AM
Ever heard of the National Institutes of Health? Funded by congress and responsible for authorizing grants responsible for staggering amounts of research?
We're not talking about gov't funding here, we're talking about fetus guts.
Come on, folks. Nobody's interested in a nation based on Christianity is sponsoring research on babies?
Ready..... Fight!
Isn't europe also christian predominantly, how come they are mindlessly going on through with it.
Isn't by the same token vaccination voilating the same religious beliefs.
We're trying to run a planet with 7 billion that was designed for 1 billion or less people. Sorry, some of this is going to go toward the majority, as well as some species which are going to die.
Find a safe and gradual way to run it down to a manageable 4-5 billion and we'll automatically start seeing life as precious. For now its cheap and its eating up our resources.
Cool
Buddha.
china does that with Pop control. and we see where that is going lol
It's a win-win for me.
Either you guys fight over nature's practical joke (and I get to laugh), or you don't (and I don't have to read it)!! :D
There's absolutely no right answer, yet people take up arms about it. No one sees the humor in that?
You're so right, CafeBoy. You're exempt, homie.
Quote from: wladziu on March 11, 2009, 08:43:25 PM
It's a win-win for me.
Either you guys fight over nature's practical joke (and I get to laugh), or you don't (and I don't have to read it)!! :D
There's absolutely no right answer, yet people take up arms about it. No one sees the humor in that?
You're so right, CafeBoy. You're exempt, homie.
Hey wladziu, forgive my ignorance , but what is as you put it, " natures practical joke"? if i may inquire
Sorry, this is done on my PSP.
While I'm pretty much against abortions for the mere fact that you can't keep their pants up.
I do believe we should have a choice. In my instance my OB/GYN told me if I tried to have a child it would either kill me or irreversible heart failure. Or the fact I have a fifty percent chance of passing it on to my child.
I also have genetic problems. So, I should be excited about and I am we can use adult stem cells though. Because if we use undesirables today. Damn PSP 2Bcont
Mary if i read correctly, the purpose of the obtaining them from embryos is to get them before they become heart liver eys or ( insert part here) cells. i could be wrong though. and you and your psp lol i was wondering why you werent on messenger. lol, i hadnt thought about teh psp. i never could get on teh messengers on my psp either unless i used the web based ones
Yeah, nature's practical joke!
Cells with such great potential for health and healing, hidden inside embryos. To further our advances in health sciences and our future, we must destroy our future and any advances that particular sacrificed life might have made.
None of you see that it was inevitable that we'd come to this point?
It's like wrapping the toilet in plastic film. It's inevitable that your spouse is gonna wake up and use it at some point in the morning, most likely groggy.
We're just as groggy. With our theological disagreements nowadays.
So, yeah, a practical joke.
I was trying to see how many people on the forum would fall for it.
Cause, if you argue that "God doesn't like abortions" - then why'd he make stem cells so powerful, then make them the building blocks of unborn babies?
If you argue and fight about "choice" - then, you're extending the jugular of your morality.
It's absolutely ridiculous!!!
Either way, you're right and wrong, at the same time. And, any choice you make has you feeling like crap.
On the one hand - we're killing ourselves. On the other - we're killing ourselves!
So, yeah, sounds like the perfect practical joke.
Arguably the rich are saving themselves at the expense of the poor, and they will eventually starve the world.
Cool.
Buddha.
Adult stem cells are harvested from bone marrow. So, they have yet to get their assighnments either. Biggest difference from what I read is how many generations they last.
Can't get refrences with PSP.
Mary
my raising taught me life was precious, and you deal with what you're dealt.
abortion and stem cells fall into the same group for me: it's not something for -man- to decide.
Quote from: ohgood on March 13, 2009, 07:32:26 PM
my raising taught me life was precious, and you deal with what you're dealt.
abortion and stem cells fall into the same group for me: it's not something for -man- to decide.
+1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
aye thats where my issue is. id have a hard time advocating playing "god" :icon_confused:
I mean when are we playing God? @ what point a blood tranfusion or a heart transplant, or the AICD controlling the heart. I guess when transplant reenters my life there will be much to pray about and am confident HE will guide me.
Mary
Quote from: Toogoofy317 on March 14, 2009, 02:11:51 AM
I mean when are we playing God? @ what point a blood tranfusion or a heart transplant, or the AICD controlling the heart. I guess when transplant reenters my life there will be much to pray about and am confident HE will guide me.
Mary
Mary thats the question that tears at me, how do we know if we are playing god as i pu tit, or if god was gguiding our hand /brain/soul to do something? or if someone was going around god/trying to be god, how does oen know this?
Not to piss in any of the fanboys' Cheerios here first thing in the morning, but...
http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=44943
QuoteObama Signs Law Banning Federal Embryo Research Two Days After Signing Executive Order to OK It
Friday, March 13, 2009
By Terence P. Jeffrey, Editor-in-Chief
President Barack Obama (AP Photo)
(CNSNews.com) - On Wednesday, only two days after he lifted President Bush's executive order banning federal funding of stem cell research that requires the destruction of human embryos, President Barack Obama signed a law that explicilty bans federal funding of any "research in which a human embryo or embryos are destroyed, discarded, or knowingly subjected to risk of injury or death."
SEC. 509. (a) None of the funds made available in this Act may be used for—(1) the creation of a human embryo or embryos for research purposes; or (2) research in which a human embryo or embryos are destroyed, discarded, or knowingly subjected to risk of injury or death greater than that allowed for research on fetuses in utero under 45 CFR 46.204(b) and section 498(b) of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S.C. 289g(b)). (b) For purposes of this section, the term ''human embryo or embryos'' includes any organism, not protected as a human subject under 45 CFR 46 as of the date of the enactment of this Act, that is derived by fertilization, parthenogenesis, cloning, or any other means from one or more human gametes or human diploid cells.
Quote from: murf425 on March 11, 2009, 05:14:27 AM
I don't have a problem at all with stem cell research.
I have a problem with tax dollars funding it. Let's get one thing straight...there has never been a ban on the research. There has only been a ban on federal funding for it. And you know what? That's good. There is nothing that gives the federal government the power or authority to spend our tax dollars subsidizing a private corporation to do the research they want to do. If someone wants to do the research, by all means go ahead. But fund it yourself.
100% Agree. I believe it should be a privately funded project that the libs can set up if they so desire.
Christ. Right back to the politics and name calling, person that calls people fanboys yet has a Colbert avatar.
The funding doesn't prohibit buying real estate, building, and furnishing equipment for a lab which may or may not do such research in the future. A change in mission statement easily sidesteps the funding issue, as long as there are no active abstracts mentioning embryonic destruction.
I don't care about the political views. I'm only interested in the point at which one begins to waffle on their morality.
After all, we all know that it's easy to reap the benefits of an issue we didn't agree with, as long as we blame the responsibility on the opposing party.
Regardless of the funding, WOULD YOU or WOULD YOU NOT let your (theoretical) 8 year old girl receive treatment for horrible disfiguring burns using skin grown from stem cells from aborted fetuses? Or perhaps shorten your own life?
Quote from: wladziu on March 14, 2009, 09:43:07 AM
Christ. Right back to the politics and name calling, person that calls people fanboys yet has a Colbert avatar.
It was on the page I found when I Googled "funny avatars." :flipoff:
If your religion opposes abortion and stem-cell research, fine. But don't try to make laws imposing your religious views on everyone else. Simple enough.
Quote from: Toogoofy317 on March 14, 2009, 02:11:51 AM
I mean when are we playing God? @ what point a blood tranfusion or a heart transplant, or the AICD controlling the heart. I guess when transplant reenters my life there will be much to pray about and am confident HE will guide me.
Mary
harvesting organs from a dying person doesn't seem like playing god to me. it seems like taking the very best possible approach to a bad situation.
you need an organ, and someone has an accident, rendering their life over, but organs still good.
you can have my heart should that be the case. i would hope my family would celebrate my tissues giving life to another person.
:)
These are both very good points, and I agree entirely.
Judging from your responses, I suppose that both of you are not too obstinate to at least understand the opposing viewpoints.
I'm not asking you to agree with them at all. I'm just supposing that you understand.
Now, do you find it the least bit interesting that we find ourselves in such a situation as species?
I've been wondering if someone who feels strongly toward either position could somehow admit the futility of the conflict. Not in order to sway their opinion either way, but just as sort of a measure of the common man.
Would have been nicer if there had been some sort of argument, previously. I don't know the term for it, when an opposing party races the other to agreement and resolution just as a way to further the conflict passive-aggressively. Those things are interesting to me.
Quote from: wladziu on March 14, 2009, 02:03:12 PM
These are both very good points, and I agree entirely.
Judging from your responses, I suppose that both of you are not too obstinate to at least understand the opposing viewpoints.
I'm not asking you to agree with them at all. I'm just supposing that you understand.
Now, do you find it the least bit interesting that we find ourselves in such a situation as species?
I've been wondering if someone who feels strongly toward either position could somehow admit the futility of the conflict. Not in order to sway their opinion either way, but just as sort of a measure of the common man.
Would have been nicer if there had been some sort of argument, previously. I don't know the term for it, when an opposing party races the other to agreement and resolution just as a way to further the conflict passive-aggressively. Those things are interesting to me.
it must be raining where you are, and all your 'inside' toys are broken.
I hope that one day my brother in law can get out of his wheel chair, give me a smile, and take a walk with my niece through the North Carolina wilderness.
you know where I stand... I love you all.... debate on.
Just in case anyone is wondering... he is a cancer survivor.... a relentlessly upbeat person, devoted father, and one of the most inspirational people I have ever been privileged to meet.
wladziu,
You need to work on your arguement starting skills.
Next time try "what's the best oil". :D
yeah, I had a really good ethics class in college. I'm not going to fight about it why because it really doesn't matter because it will be done somewhere. I'm sure in some lab in China it's already started! Honestly, morals are in our own heart and we have to live with our choices. But, I don't think I'd accept a heart from a "grown embryo". Oh, sure I'd love to have a healthy life but at what cost? As I was trying to say in my earlier post at what point do we draw the line on undesirables.
Just thinking if some genetic testing came out that would pinpoint my heart problems would I have just been used as spare parts or flushed down the toilet. Even though I'm disabled I like to think I do contribute to some of the good things that happen in this world. Yeah, at times life REALLY sucks i.e this week but in my beliefs things happen for a reason I know for me if I hadn't had this heart problem. I would still be a very lonely and angry person. If I had it to do all over again I'd walk the same path.
I'm very in favor of stem cell research but we don't have to destroy in order to create. The hippocratic oath first says do no harm and I believe that is for good reason.
http://www.stemcellresearchfacts.com/pros_cons.html
Mary
Quote from: trumpetguy on March 14, 2009, 10:07:31 AM
If your religion opposes abortion and stem-cell research, fine. But don't try to make laws imposing your religious views on everyone else. Simple enough.
or vice versa. i wonder why the change of mind on obamas part though? all i ask is if my tax dollars have to pay for it, ive got teh option to back out. if you TG (or anyone else) want tehir tax dollars to go for it. fine. cool. not an issue. this is one of those issues, that no matter what you do, someone will get pissed off. TG even though we may disagree STRONGLY on politics, im sure we can agree on that last line :dunno_white:
The reversal was part of the Pelosi/Reid omnibus spending bill and either a failed excercise in blatant misdirection or a display of gross incompetence in the white house staff. I'm going with incompetence.
Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on March 14, 2009, 10:28:55 PM
all i ask is if my tax dollars have to pay for it, ive got teh option to back out. if you TG (or anyone else) want tehir tax dollars to go for it. fine. cool. not an issue. this is one of those issues, that no matter what you do, someone will get pissed off. TG even though we may disagree STRONGLY on politics, im sure we can agree on that last line :dunno_white:
As long as I can have my tax dollars back and not used on a "War on Drugs," "War on Terror," or any other senseless exercise phrased as a "War" on an idea. We both know that kind of thinking won't work.
We need basic research, and it will benefit all mankind, including those who don't want their tax dollars spent there. If my tax dollars are being spent on $900 hammers and billions on F-22s (or whatever the f$%^ they are) that the military doesn't want, you can lose a few pennies on basic research without coming unglued.
Abortion will always be with us. Do you want it safe, legal, and rare, or some other way?
So are you saying not fight teh drug problem, or change its name?, also get rid of teh unnecessary earmarks int eh last two bills signed into law
Quote from: ohgood on March 14, 2009, 07:21:28 PM
it must be raining where you are, and all your 'inside' toys are broken.
Yep.
They won't let me shadow in an operatory, yet. The suspense is killing me. Needed a distraction.
Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on March 14, 2009, 11:44:55 PM
So are you saying not fight teh drug problem, or change its name?, also get rid of teh unnecessary earmarks int eh last two bills signed into law
I'm not saying don't fight the drug problem. I'm saying fight the SOURCE -- depression and addiction. Same with terror. I think both of those "Wars" are designed to be endless and very profitable for certain groups of people.
And my "that kind of thinking won't work" phrase was poorly placed in the paragraph. What I meant was we can't allow everyone to say what they do or don't want individual tax dollars spent on. Elect representatives and senators, inform them how we feel, and then we live with it.
Uh oh! He said "elect"!
Cue Buddha:
Quote from: trumpetguy on March 15, 2009, 10:30:02 AM
Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on March 14, 2009, 11:44:55 PM
So are you saying not fight teh drug problem, or change its name?, also get rid of teh unnecessary earmarks int eh last two bills signed into law
I'm not saying don't fight the drug problem. I'm saying fight the SOURCE -- depression and addiction. Same with terror. I think both of those "Wars" are designed to be endless and very profitable for certain groups of people.
And my "that kind of thinking won't work" phrase was poorly placed in the paragraph. What I meant was we can't allow everyone to say what they do or don't want individual tax dollars spent on. Elect representatives and senators, inform them how we feel, and then we live with it.
actually TG ill agree with you. btu our "elected" officials have proven theyre not there to do what we wish, been this way for decades. tbh can trust no one there nowadays even obama lol or clinton or bush or reid or ( insert all members there pretty much)
Quote from: trumpetguy on March 14, 2009, 11:04:55 PM
Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on March 14, 2009, 10:28:55 PM
all i ask is if my tax dollars have to pay for it, ive got teh option to back out. if you TG (or anyone else) want tehir tax dollars to go for it. fine. cool. not an issue. this is one of those issues, that no matter what you do, someone will get pissed off. TG even though we may disagree STRONGLY on politics, im sure we can agree on that last line :dunno_white:
As long as I can have my tax dollars back and not used on a "War on Drugs," "War on Terror," or any other senseless exercise phrased as a "War" on an idea. We both know that kind of thinking won't work.
We need basic research, and it will benefit all mankind, including those who don't want their tax dollars spent there. If my tax dollars are being spent on $900 hammers and billions on F-22s (or whatever the f$%^ they are) that the military doesn't want, you can lose a few pennies on basic research without coming unglued.
Abortion will always be with us. Do you want it safe, legal, and rare, or some other way?
trumpetguy is my new hero....
FYI, i'm happy to have my taxes pay for a 'war on spinal cord injury". just sign me up!