http://www.buell.com/en_us/
Who knew that if you produced garbage and sold it for trumped up prices, and meddled with the racing organisations and get them to allow 2 X the displacement for just your bikes, you'd only last 10-12 years in the world.
BTW I thought they were making big $$$ pushing the crap. WTF happened.
Yea the Harley lump was garbage in the thing, the Rotax powered one was fuuuughly ... but HD owned KTM, why not shove a KTM one in it.
I liked the gas in frame, oil in swingarm design though, but too bad it came with a HD lump.
Cool.
Buddha.
It's about TIME!!!!!
Honestly, I've NEVER seen one on the road. EVER.
Wow, that bums me out. I love Buell motorcycles. I'm done buying new motorcycles, so saying that really means absolutely nothing to Buell. I also don't have any crazy amount of income, so at the time I'll only have one motorcycle, and since that's the case i'd only own one that's japanese for reliabilities sake. Someday if I have a second bike, I'd love to pick up a Buell if I could get a good deal on one. I know they're underpowered compared to other 900-1200 bikes in their class, but they just look like they'd be awesome to ride. They're one of the few bikes that was actually made for riding around town, and was made with it's own engine. As I've complained about before, most "naked" bikes are just decade old sportbike engines built up with cheap parts to try to sell to one more segment of the market, when their real focus is sportbikes and cruisers. Buell was completely focused on fun streetbikes, so i can appriciate that. God forbid a company actually try to make something different than what you see everywhere else. As much as I don't like Harleys, it'd be cool if they kept one of the Buell bikes and put it out as a Harley model. Even if they went back to a steel frame and shiny parts that Harleys are more known for, it'd be cool to have a sport V-twin street bike as a choice.
My best hope is that they turn into some lame brand that died out, and the bikes are selling cheap in 10 years, instead of becoming rare and selling for way more than I'd want to pay.
It seemed like a good idea ('mrkin made non-cruisers), but the execution sucked. When shopping for the bike that ultimately became the GS, I considered Buells, but the reliability (or lack thereof) horror stories abounded to the point that I ended up passing on them entirely. Presumably parts support will wane, and they will be left high and dry. It's not like HD was ever all that into them anyway...
For the time being parts and service is supposed to stick around, but they didn't give any idea as to how long. I'm sure plenty of the parts for the older harley engines can be made for not too much more than harley spends to make theirs, and the newer bikes didn't even have harley engines, so hopefully those parts could still be found somewhere.
No one bought the buell now. The HD faithful, just got HD, the true sport bikers well, even if they wanted a V twin, they got jap, better and cheaper. Decades old sport motors are perfectly fine for naked's IMHO. B12, B6 and SV nakeds as well as FZ1, FZ6, CB919/599, and Z and ZRX kawi's - nothing wrong with any of em. GS too.
My question is, now that buell is part of HD what is he gonna do. Buell was a skunk, then it got integrated ... can he start another skunk ? In this economy, prolly easier to ramp up in this economy. Prolly have a true revolutionary motor - home grown ethanol/bio diesel bike that actually runs well.
Cool.
Buddha.
Yea the rotax motor buell looked like garbage. It may have run OK, but the damned radiator on the sides. Pure garbage. Just hang the bloody thing in front which is where they look the least ugly.
Cool.
Buddha.
That very last buell wasn't the prettiest thing to look at. Those air scoops were just too much for my tastes. There's still either a radiator or an oil cooler, not sure which, right behind the front wheel.
The buell's before that one were gorgeous though. I know people here are pretty picky about their bikes, and if it's not a GS it usually gets scoffed at for having too much power, being too hard to work on, or whatever other various reasons I usually hear, but they still looked like great bikes. They had reliability issues, but you can't expect them to have all the kinks worked out when they sell 5000 bikes a year compared to some Japanese manufactures who sell 300,000, that's just an unreasonable expectation. Look how long Triumph has been around, and their bikes are still no where near as reliable.
I understand the Buell's aren't everyone's idea of a great bike, but they had their following, came out with plenty of innovations, and managed to stick around for 25 years, so it's not like they don't deserve some credit. An SV1000 might be a better bike, but it really isn't doing all that well either. I rarely see them around anywhere, and they have absolutley not appeal to them. The SV650 had a large following, and suzuki is just trying to grab onto that with the 1000.
The FZ1 comes across as more of a light duty touring bike to me, I like the 919 but they're not too common, and from what I've read in reviews are a little bland, Speed Triple is cool but has the same reliability issues as buell, honda won't sell the cb1000r here, as I've already said the sv1000 has a great motor but is pretty boring aside from that. I'm a pretty big fan of the Z1000, but out of all of them, if I showed up to a demo ride that had every one of those bikes there, I'd definitely jump on the Buell first, because it just looks like the most fun. I also live in the city, and don't care to spend much of my riding time going too fast on the highway, or flying around back roads pretending like I'm on a supersport, so for my segment of the population, which I think most riders tend to forget about, it definitely looks like the most useful bike.
HAHA. Not surprising. When I was looking for my first bike. I actually really wanted a Buell Bell 500 or whatever it was called. Back then a google search for "Buell" brought back www.buellsucks.com as the first website. I always thought that was hilarious! It was full of horror stories. Random parts simply falling off during highway travel. Footpegs randomly falling off. shaZam! breaking all the time. Engines totaled after a floor room purchase etc etc. So I settled for a '92 GS500 w/24k miles for only $1,100. Best purchase I've ever made in my life. To this day the cheapest GS500 I've ever seen for sale was like $1,300.
Anyways, I bought my GS500 and was too scared to ride it. I ended up with a Buell Bell 500 for my MSF course (taught at the local HD dealer).
OMG what a HUGE piece of shaZam!. I didn't even know much about bikes but I know that bike SUCKED HORRIBLY.
First of all, there was a ton of plastic on it. There was a plastic shield that covered the entire gas tank. It wasn't comfortable to sit in. It looked and felt cheap. PLUS the freaking rattled like a mother F'er. Even at idle the entire frame and mirrors were vibrating and my hands and inner thighs would go numb from the vibration. I asked the instructor if this much vibration was normal and he responded, "Well it's a Harley engine! That's how me make 'em!" with a huge doofy grin. I thought, "well your engineers are retarded. I don't want my nuts being vibrated off when I ride your bike".
Never looked back. What a terrible POS. :cookoo: :icon_rolleyes: :cry:We need a thumbs down emocon.
sv1K was too high in $ and too close in performance to the 650. It had lots of good stuff on it, like every part was better than a 650 but didn't matter. It was made 03 and 04, 06 and 07. That was it. @ 8500 or so it never sold. They slashed it to 7k-7500 and it sold out in 07/08.
Didn't help 1 bit that the GSXR 600 would outrun it easy and had more plastic and was cheaper either.
The gas in frame, oil in swingarm series of buell that was the previous generation, yea I like it too.
Cool.
Buddha.
Stuff a KTM motor in a buell... uhm you're aware that Rotax is the KTM motor maker right? The 1125R motor is a larger displacement version of the 950 or 990 adventure motor.
How many bashers here have actually ridden the xb12r or 9r which are the HD evo motored bikes? HP 103 right not impressive but at well over 80 ft/lbs of tourqe the were great machines flickable in the twisties and stable.
As for the 1125r I have not ridden one but a fellow rider is president of the buell owners club in my neck of the woods and another rider I ride with did a buell trackday, rented one and loved it... His current ride is a DUC 1098R which was his runner up candidate he got a smokin deal on it before the 1125r was released for sale.
1125r used fuel in the frame, oil in the swingarm just like the evo motored buells did, the radiators were hung where they were so that the steering geometry and wheelbase could be kept tight as possible, just like the side mounted radiators on the RVT1000R(RC51) of honda vtwin racing fame.
How is the displacement difference any differnt than what ducati whined and cried about and got a variance for on WSBK being allowed to run the 1198 against the 1000 cc bikes?
Also displcement is not the determining factor for AMA classification with it being owned by DMG now, bikes are classed on power to weight ratio basis. The bike get's dynoed and weighed and classed accordingly, the 1125R did not up and runaway from the 600's it took alot of hard riding to in the series this year.
Harley bought a controlling interest in KTM and Rotax so they could expand into the european market, which was a godsend for buell racing because they could finally use a modern liquid colled motor.
I for one am sorry to see Buell go, they used Erik to make a name for themselves and utilize the products in the U.S. once they got what they wanted whiich was in the euro market they did this.
Danny Eslick is also a casual aquaintance of mine and this really blows for him as well.
Buell whined and complained and is running 1125 cc against 600's. 1200 twin vs 1000 4 is close. Vs a 600 it is really a huge leg up.
The gas in frame oil in SA, HD lumped buell, yea its stable and flickable OK, what its not, is reliable or durable like a 600 or 750 or sv650 is. Still, that would have been a bike I may have bought.
1125 is a great motor, the radiators much like a RC51 are side mounted, but a RC51 has them all packaged into a fairing and it looks fine and very appropriate for the sport bike it is. The Buell 1125CR looks like someone is hiding a couple of sumo wrestlers in the fairing. And it dont have oil in the SA, its not dry sump. Gas in frame, yes. Pretty nice.
Yes buell trackday's always fun, always great, always kickass, and they never let anything wiht a CB or GSX into the track at the same time. Buell only track days ... where the fastest bike is a ... wonder of wonders, buell.
A KTM twin in a serious frame and what not will make a formidable track bike against any other make ... too bad it didn't fit in harleys image. Only thing I have against the 1125 buell is the fugly looks. The older buells looked great, but everything else was a bit off.
Loved it on a track day is just like me saying, I loved it when I saw it in the parking lot. I wont buy it still. There was a lot I liked about it, but there aint no getting around that HD lump and the 1125 fugly.
Cool.
Buddha.
One good thing, FIRE SALE!!!!!!!!!
I was never much of a fan of their bikes, but I'm sad to see it happen. He kinda thumbed his nose at THE SYSTEM and followed his dream. Kinda like Preston Tucker, in a way.
Very sad.... :cry:
An iconic bike and the only Sportbike I would have considered riding these days.
Very sad.........
Hd has been a majority owner of buell for many years now. garbage? ( only to a hater) easy to work on, doenst leak vibrate to hell or throw parts, hell my gs threw more parts than my old firebolt would, ( stillloved my gs though), a different machine, ? for sure, ill miss em, ill get one down the road, once health alows it, ( got plans and a supercharger waiting :icon_twisted: ) teh SC i had purchased for my sportie, removed when i sold it. will go on a buell
Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on October 15, 2009, 10:57:00 PM
Hd has been a majority owner of buell for many years now. garbage? ( only to a hater) easy to work on, doenst leak vibrate to hell or throw parts, hell my gs threw more parts than my old firebolt would, ( stillloved my gs though), a different machine, ? for sure, ill miss em, ill get one down the road, once health alows it, ( got plans and a supercharger waiting :icon_twisted: ) teh SC i had purchased for my sportie, removed when i sold it. will go on a buell
:thumb: :thumb:
I would love to see if I could get a deal on one of those City -X 900's.....
Quote from: birdman561 on October 16, 2009, 04:02:43 AM
Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on October 15, 2009, 10:57:00 PM
Hd has been a majority owner of buell for many years now. garbage? ( only to a hater) easy to work on, doenst leak vibrate to hell or throw parts, hell my gs threw more parts than my old firebolt would, ( stillloved my gs though), a different machine, ? for sure, ill miss em, ill get one down the road, once health alows it, ( got plans and a supercharger waiting :icon_twisted: ) teh SC i had purchased for my sportie, removed when i sold it. will go on a buell
:thumb: :thumb:
I would love to see if I could get a deal on one of those City -X 900's.....
a fun ride ;)
Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on October 15, 2009, 10:57:00 PM
easy to work on, doenst leak vibrate to hell or throw parts,
Well now, it may be no harley, but from what I've seen those things still have a monster shake at idle.
That's not enough to turn me away, but it's one more reason that it probably couldn't be my only bike. Seems like a lot of work for a passenger. If I already had another bike with 2 seats, I'd be up for an xb9x, or even one of those 1 seater cyclones.
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d28/Schultzee/STREETBIKES/BuellCyclone.jpg)
QUICK! Buy a Buell, they are gonna be worth poop loads now! :icon_mrgreen:
Want some REAL sad news?
MV Agusta (owned by HD) is now either for sale, or being shut down if it doesn't sell. :(
Yea one more company that had potential to well, turn a pile of metal into irrelevant objects better than any one else.
Let duc follow and I may be a little interested.
Seriously, Yea they were great in the 50-60's. Then they went under ... like 10 times in the next 30 years. Then easy money revived them, much like it did with excelsior henderson, Indian, and a bunch of other garbage.
They were all 1 trick ponies. Recession does a good job of clearing out the dead wood.
Utility motorcycles, ones that have the potential to replace a car on america's streets regardless of category/genre are what IMHO should survive. Crotch rocket only, luxo boat tourers only, whatever garbage only are all about as useful as well, cars that only make left hand turns or studying auto racing as a bachelors degree.
All we need is a sustained gas price of 5 bucks a gal, and a recession where people cant buy any crap and toss it on their credit card. They buy things they will have to use, pay for and best of all, maintain.
BTW, WTF makes that Fugly ass shoe box of a car a "smart" one ??? I dont see it get smaller when there is one occupant, and dont see it expand to take in 12 people. I also dont see it watch the road or interact with the driver past the wheels and pedals. And I dont see it even talk to other "smart" cars.
Its dumber than a furby, and about as useful and not as cute as a furby.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: The Buddha on October 16, 2009, 11:35:54 AM
BTW, WTF makes that Fugly ass shoe box of a car a "smart" one ??? I dont see it get smaller when there is one occupant, and dont see it expand to take in 12 people. I also dont see it watch the road or interact with the driver past the wheels and pedals. And I dont see it even talk to other "smart" cars.
Its dumber than a furby, and about as useful and not as cute as a furby.
Did you think they were trying to say it was smart because of what it was?? Nooo, the only reason that car exists is because companies know that with the pressure to make fuel efficient line ups would mean trouble like a company who only makes "performance" cars like Mercede's. Having the Smartcar in their line up throw off their curve well enough to let them keep making their rest of their cars exactly how they were, and then make one car that gets really good gas mileage. It was smart from a business model that wants to get around an honest request for companies to make more responsible cars.
Aside from that, I love MV Agusta. Specifically the Brutale. Way out of my price range, and goes against everything I like about common bikes that are easy to get parts and work on, but still, if I was old enough to retire, and was looking for a bike to cruise around on now that I actually have money to spend in my savings account, it would be a Brutale.
Have you seen the F4CC?? More HP than a Hayabusa, and it weighs 100lbs less. It costs $120,000, but that's beside the point.
I'll make an F4CC, it will be 400 CC a parallel twin, weigh 100 lbs, cost $1,200 and run for a year on the fuel in a hayabusa's tank.
More over it will have a motor that can be swapped out for the F4CCC when that is invented, a FI that will also be upgradeable by itself and it will say what part of what does what.
Like for example, your green wire with yellow tracer goes into the black box from the trigger mechanism for the left cylinder. If you're misfiring on the left cylinder, and your trigger mechanism has >1K when its not inducted, and <1ohm when its inducted, the black box has the problem in this resistance, this capacitor and this diode. replace those and you're fine.
Cool.
Buddha.
You lost me. Did I mention that the F4CC goes 195mph off the show room floor? Japanese companies won't even go over 186. Gentleman's aggreements are for slow people!! :cookoo:
My F4CC goes 195 mpg.
I'm just saying they are making more concept garbage. How about we get a concept bike that is rideable, useable, maintainable and upgradeable and not filled with mumbo jumbo.
Cool.
Buddha.
BUELL HAD SOME GREAT BIKES!.... You turds just dont like them cause your all ANTI-HD cause HD riders are ANTI-SPORT BIKE!....GET OVER IT! A BIKE IS A BIKE! Buell had some firsts for designs and did amazing things with a sporty motor. A motor that you could say was some what out dated....just like your gs!
Precisely. They should've stuffed a GS motor in that buell. I'm kidding. That was their be-last. Anyway, I liked the sportster motor'ed ones. The Rotax, while the motor was better, it just was fugly.
They should have got the rotax ones to look like the previous version.
That radiator/coffin/concrete mixer ruined the whole bike on the rotax ones.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: GoateeChicken on October 16, 2009, 08:14:44 AM
QUICK! Buy a Buell, they are gonna be worth poop loads now! :icon_mrgreen:
lol ! ya, just like ENRON coffee mugs, and JEFF DIDN"T LIE t-shirts. ;)
I read this thread title as "Buell Blast is really dead" and then realized - oh no, BUELL is dead. I'd really like to see American Engineering actually do something that wasn't stupid for once. You know, compete with the jap bikes. Compete with the world on -any- type of event.
The idea that it has to be a v-twin to be american, god, why ? The 4's are doing such an awesome job, such a SMOOTH awesome job, with tons of power. Even P-twins. Why oh why is the V so important ?
I'd rather not see the BUells die. I'd like to see them innovate, engineer, and thumb their noses at HD, american stupidity, and sub standard quality. I'd really like to see american manufacturing WIN for once, but it seems we're too worried about muscles, machismo, and V's to to anything worth a damn.
Word on the street is that Yamaha is showing some interest. Of all the companies, it doesn't surprise me considering their history with the v-max, and the newer MT-01.
(http://www.motorcyclenews.com/ImgGalleryTn/83/62783/22782_13538.jpg)
I never liked the Buells for a few reasons, not one of them being it was an HD subsidiary (and thus they can't really thumb their noses at HD). One, the proportions were really bizarre, at least to the eye. These were generally bizarre looking bikes. Second, they didn't have any credibility as a performance motorcycle (in my eyes at least). They didn't start racing with the other manufacturers until a couple years ago when the rules were changed (as Buddha mentioned) - and I don't remember hearing about them being competitive. Third, they were kindof pricey, especially compared to the established brands.
Quote from: tt_four on October 16, 2009, 07:37:48 PM
Word on the street is that Yamaha is showing some interest. Of all the companies, it doesn't surprise me considering their history with the v-max, and the newer MT-01.
(http://www.motorcyclenews.com/ImgGalleryTn/83/62783/22782_13538.jpg)
I hope to god you're right, and it does get bought by yamaha and better yet, Erik Buell gets them to stuff the TRX motor (parallel twin - 900 cc worth) in it.
Yes that pic, with the 900 TRX in it, I'l line up to buy one, lightly used ...
I'd also take a baby version with a XS 650 motor in it.
Cool.
Buddha.
Then youd sit around the buddhas temple of gs'ness and figure out how to stuff oen into a gs frame Eh?, lol hell i know i would :thumb:
Quote from: newbie on October 16, 2009, 02:56:44 PM
1 BUELL HAD SOME GREAT BIKES!.... 2 You turds just dont like them cause your all ANTI-HD cause HD riders are ANTI-SPORT BIKE!....3 GET OVER IT! A BIKE IS A BIKE! 4 Buell had some firsts for designs and did amazing things with a sporty motor. 5 A motor that you could say was some what out dated....just like your gs!
1- debatable, of course, but if they were so great, why didn't they:
sell
win (in their proper bracket)
blow away 600cc jap bikes
2 - false. SOME people are anti-cruiser/sport/tourer/adv, but not everyone.
3 - false. if A BIKE IS A BIKE IS A BIKE were true, you wouldn't mind commuting on a 250 chinese made crapbox scooter that kills it's engine every 300 miles. this is so false. soo entirely false. good bikes rock, but bikes that last 20 years reliably deserve their spot in history and garages. buell did not. sorry.
4 - amazing ? like racing 600cc sportbikes ? sorry, i'm stuck on that one right now.
5 - no one has ever proclaimed a gs motor to be NEW TECH or fancy. it's simple, easy to work on (mostly) and reliable. reliable trumps most everything else in my book. there is no comparison between the 4xx cc engine of the gs and the behemoths of HD as far as power output. start comparing longevity, reliability, and cheap maintenance, then we'll talk.
^ they were your points. defend em ?
I became an Erik buell fan back in the 80's when I saw what he could do with the antiquated sporty motor in the BOT series. It wouldn't surprise me if he went down in history as one of the great innovators of motorcycle design. I've ridden the '94 S2 Thunderbolt and '96 S1 Lightning. Both were well made and had plenty of hp for my skill level. The Lightning (90+ hp) felt like a dirtbike with mega torque, but the wheelbase/steering geometry made it a little too skittish for my liking. The Thunderbolt (82 hp) on the other hand was longer, heavier and much friendlier for all around use. I believe the sporty motor starts significantly losing reliability/longevity much above 80 hp. It's sad to see them go but it was nothing short of a miracle that they even existed to start with. They truly made a silk purse from a sows ear.
Quote from: NF11624 on October 16, 2009, 08:14:30 PM
I never liked the Buells for a few reasons, not one of them being it was an HD subsidiary (and thus they can't really thumb their noses at HD). One, the proportions were really bizarre, at least to the eye. These were generally bizarre looking bikes. Second, they didn't have any credibility as a performance motorcycle (in my eyes at least). They didn't start racing with the other manufacturers until a couple years ago when the rules were changed (as Buddha mentioned) - and I don't remember hearing about them being competitive. Third, they were kindof pricey, especially compared to the established brands.
All of these points only make any sense if you're trying to compare one to a sport bike, which they're not. The proportions are bizarre for a sportbike, but they make pretty good sense for a standard upright streetbike. I'll admit it took a little while for them to really grown on me, but there was something that always attracted me to them from the first time I saw them
They're not really performance racing bikes, they're just supposed to be a fun street bike made out of a base you would never expect. I haven't seen any Honda 919s, FZ1s, or Z1000s racing against sportbikes either, and that class of motorcycle is what Buell does. Just because you want to make street bikes doesn't mean you have to want to be competitive with racing bikes. I don't feel like all car manufactures have to compete with NASCAR or formula one cars to be taken seriously.
They might cost more than a similar japanese bike, but that's not a fair arguement. Comparing random products with a mass produced asian product does NOT mean that the original is expensive, it just means that asian products are able to be made cheaper because of the massive production numbers and lower costs of production. That's like comparing everything you buy at a real store to the items you could buy at walmart. You can get things cheaper there, but I still refuse to step inside the place.
I understand the points if all you've ever looked at are Japanese bikes, but not everyone wants a high revving race bike. The XB9 was made for people who ride in the city, so it makes sense to me. On the opposite end, when I look at a lot of Japanese bikes, I just feel like they're bland and have no soul. I hated the reliability issues I had with my Triumph, but bikes like that are so much fun I'm willing to deal with it just because there's more to a fun bike than numbers and race stats. Even the firebolt, which has that quarter fairing and clipons, still isn't really a racing bike. It's just a street bike with a fairing and clipons considering that's what people want. They had a tough time because they're an American company, working in a European class, but still in America. All naked bikes do horrible in this country compared to other countries. That's why we don't get the majority of the bikes the Japanese companies are making. The fact that they were able to compete with the Japanese sportbike market in this country with American street bikes at all is amazing, let alone for 25 years.
Quote from: tt_four on October 17, 2009, 06:55:47 AM
The XB9 was made for people who ride in the city, so it makes sense to me. On the opposite end, when I look at a lot of Japanese bikes, I just feel like they're bland and have no soul. I hated the reliability issued I had with my Triumph, but bikes like that are so much fun I'm willing to deal with it just because there's more to a fun bike than numbers and race stats.
:thumb:
People always buy what they think the need rather than what is best for them in reality.
Sportbike pplz exemplify this phenomenon....
Whenever I see a 19 year old kid with a new R6 or GSXR I say seven Hail Mry's and then laff.
WTF are they thinking ? Id venture to say that if there were 1000 sportbike riders in one room
and even 200 had an open mind, 199 of them would prefer the Buell after riding in the situations
they ride in. WTF does someone need a sportbike for in S.Fl or NY or any urban area.....
Yeah, its personal and all that, blah, blah, blah, but if people knew what they are missing by
mismatching thier bike needs to reality they would come around. I've had three hondas and two Harleys,
a Kawasaki a Yamaha600 and 2 Suzukis in the past 15 years....My Harleys, aside from having by far
the best finishing quality , also were the most reliable due to hydro valves and belt drives. My
Softtail NEVER needed any work, and it was a daily, year 'round rider in PA.
Quote from: tt_four on October 17, 2009, 06:55:47 AM
Quote from: NF11624 on October 16, 2009, 08:14:30 PM
I never liked the Buells for a few reasons, not one of them being it was an HD subsidiary (and thus they can't really thumb their noses at HD). One, the proportions were really bizarre, at least to the eye. These were generally bizarre looking bikes. Second, they didn't have any credibility as a performance motorcycle (in my eyes at least). They didn't start racing with the other manufacturers until a couple years ago when the rules were changed (as Buddha mentioned) - and I don't remember hearing about them being competitive. Third, they were kindof pricey, especially compared to the established brands.
All of these points only make any sense if you're trying to compare one to a sport bike, which they're not. The proportions are bizarre for a sportbike, but they make pretty good sense for a standard upright streetbike. I'll admit it took a little while for them to really grown on me, but there was something that always attracted me to them from the first time I saw them
They're not really performance racing bikes, they're just supposed to be a fun street bike made out of a base you would never expect. I haven't seen any Honda 919s, FZ1s, or Z1000s racing against sportbikes either, and that class of motorcycle is what Buell does. Just because you want to make street bikes doesn't mean you have to want to be competitive with racing bikes. I don't feel like all car manufactures have to compete with NASCAR or formula one cars to be taken seriously.
They might cost more than a similar japanese bike, but that's not a fair arguement. Comparing random products with a mass produced asian product does NOT mean that the original is expensive, it just means that asian products are able to be made cheaper because of the massive production numbers and lower costs of production. That's like comparing everything you buy at a real store to the items you could buy at walmart. You can get things cheaper there, but I still refuse to step inside the place.
I understand the points if all you've ever looked at are Japanese bikes, but not everyone wants a high revving race bike. The XB9 was made for people who ride in the city, so it makes sense to me. On the opposite end, when I look at a lot of Japanese bikes, I just feel like they're bland and have no soul. I hated the reliability issues I had with my Triumph, but bikes like that are so much fun I'm willing to deal with it just because there's more to a fun bike than numbers and race stats. Even the firebolt, which has that quarter fairing and clipons, still isn't really a racing bike. It's just a street bike with a fairing and clipons considering that's what people want. They had a tough time because they're an American company, working in a European class, but still in America. All naked bikes do horrible in this country compared to other countries. That's why we don't get the majority of the bikes the Japanese companies are making. The fact that they were able to compete with the Japanese sportbike market in this country with American street bikes at all is amazing, let alone for 25 years.
I understand your reasoning... but Buell's own philosophy is that they were making 'American Sportbikes,' and I think that when you look at sport bikes, you have to consider the Japanese models (even if you don't just limit yourself to the super sports and above). Compare an XB9 to an FZ6, ER-6N or SV650 and you get great looks, standard seat positions, and excellent performance and reliability. And thats not even considering the European bikes - Ducati, BMW and others all make equally capable and much more desirable (by the general public) bikes than Buell - for a small price premium.
If Buell didn't claim to be a sport bike manufacturer and were just another company with a quirky lineup that caters to a certain segment (like BMW), I would agree with you and probably have an open mind. But they are like many American companies in that they want to compete with the established brands from other countries but provide the market with lackluster product - just look at the small cars that were produced in America from 1990 onwards (just an example, there are doubtless more), and simply bank on a 'Made in the USA' sticker.
And if you don't think they aimed to be a sport bike manufacturer I ask you to look at their website...
Quote from: ohgood on October 17, 2009, 03:32:35 AM
Quote from: newbie on October 16, 2009, 02:56:44 PM
1 BUELL HAD SOME GREAT BIKES!.... 2 You turds just dont like them cause your all ANTI-HD cause HD riders are ANTI-SPORT BIKE!....3 GET OVER IT! A BIKE IS A BIKE! 4 Buell had some firsts for designs and did amazing things with a sporty motor. 5 A motor that you could say was some what out dated....just like your gs!
1- debatable, of course, but if they were so great, why didn't they:
sell
win (in their proper bracket)
blow away 600cc jap bikes
2 - false. SOME people are anti-cruiser/sport/tourer/adv, but not everyone.
3 - false. if A BIKE IS A BIKE IS A BIKE were true, you wouldn't mind commuting on a 250 chinese made crapbox scooter that kills it's engine every 300 miles. this is so false. soo entirely false. good bikes rock, but bikes that last 20 years reliably deserve their spot in history and garages. buell did not. sorry.
4 - amazing ? like racing 600cc sportbikes ? sorry, i'm stuck on that one right now.
5 - no one has ever proclaimed a gs motor to be NEW TECH or fancy. it's simple, easy to work on (mostly) and reliable. reliable trumps most everything else in my book. there is no comparison between the 4xx cc engine of the gs and the behemoths of HD as far as power output. start comparing longevity, reliability, and cheap maintenance, then we'll talk.
^ they were your points. defend em ?
These are your opinions, so ill leave most of them at that. BUT as far as reliability, IF properly warmed up, ( any bike engine should do this) an HD engine will get 175k on top end close to 200 on lower, also didnt ducati, have rules changed for it as well?, so theyre in teh same class i guess. but to each his own. , let the biased flameage continue :thumb:
Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on October 17, 2009, 11:30:42 PM
These are your opinions, so ill leave most of them at that. BUT as far as reliability, IF properly warmed up, ( any bike engine should do this) an HD engine will get 175k on top end close to 200 on lower, also didnt ducati, have rules changed for it as well?, so theyre in teh same class i guess. but to each his own. , let the biased flameage continue :thumb:
wird.
I wonder how the anti-HD stuff I read gets started and why pplz who think they are intelligent actually believe it ?
(http://sweasel.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/batboy.jpg)
Buell could have slotted themselves into the quirky with small market appeal, and yes I would appreciate that. Instead they ran up against jap 600's in the Superbike series. Believe it or not, racing is $$$ and by doing this, they automatically threw themseves in front of that squid train. Ducati is racing 1200's against 1000's and 848's on 600's. That is a lot closer than 600 vs 1200. However, who said even that was even competetion.
Yes I have heard HD reliabilty is worse on paper than in real life. However I am yet to see a really ignored and abused HD last worth a nickel. Like we do the GS'es. Most jap bikes even in the repli racer state of tune, hold up well with abuse and neglect.
Once again, the HD motor was holding em back till they went to the Rotax. The gas/oil in frame/SA was so cool. The rotax bike is just Fuughly.
A older buell (pre rotax version) with a parallel motor, or even a SV1K motor will be awesome. Or, figure something about the fughhhly sumo radiator shroud and get back to me. HD motor bike looks good, works mediocre. Rotax one, looks awful, works great (I presume), Simple reason it didn't work.
I am OK with odd and weird bikes, and even I hated the rotax Buell. That is bad news for em.
Cool.
Buddha.
i just loved , any hd engined bike, cause most of tehm i can do a top end rebuild without removing the engine , bmw can do this, as well as the gold wing or other boxer type engines too :thumb: plus it makes its pwoer LOW on teh rev scale. , you dont have ot flog it to get its power from it
Quote from: NF11624 on October 17, 2009, 09:53:41 PM
I understand your reasoning... but Buell's own philosophy is that they were making 'American Sportbikes,' and I think that when you look at sport bikes, you have to consider the Japanese models (even if you don't just limit yourself to the super sports and above). Compare an XB9 to an FZ6, ER-6N or SV650 and you get great looks, standard seat positions, and excellent performance and reliability. And thats not even considering the European bikes - Ducati, BMW and others all make equally capable and much more desirable (by the general public) bikes than Buell - for a small price premium.
Yeah, I should've worded that better. They were making sportbikes, along the line of the FZ6, ER-6N, and SV650. Even the firebolt which has the fairing and clipons, is a bike that I'd still consider more of a standard sportbike like the SV650S. They have been focusing on the sportbike crowd, but that's because the standard/naked market is barely existent in this country, and even if they knew they were just making standards, they'd have to know they didn't have a chance trying to market them towards a virtually non-existent market. There were just too many factors stacked up against them that I feel they could have gotten over if one of the variables were not present. They could've gotten away with the unreliable american motorcycle reputation if people liked naked bikes here(Triumph is a good example of this), they could've possibly gotten over the naked bike market issue if the bikes were reliable enough for more people to consider trying them. Either way, focusing on the sportbike crowd was their only real option, even though convincing the sportbike crowd that they should want a bike with personality was a long shot, and not nearly as fun as trying to convince the Harley crowd that their bikes are too heavy and slow.
I like triumph, especially the parallel twin cruisers.
Buell built some great chassis. But too bad he didn't have the freedom (possibly the common sense too) to make a good street bike inside of that chassis.
Yamahon: A lot of bikes can have a top end done in the frame. Most kawi's and even some suzuki's with some mods done to the cylinder studs. The GS may be the 1 exception. The yamaha XS650 I am working on needs to have cyl studs welded to the nuts, then we pull those out and replace them with bolts, and that will allow the thing to get pulled wihtout getting the motor out.
Ease of repair has been touted as one of the virtues of a HD motor, but I dont think the japs are that far behind in comparable work. One time a clueless clown argued wiht me about modding a GS vs a HD sportster. I showed him the bike I had open in my garage. He went, man that is not much harder than a HD at all. Like cams, carbs, pipes, etc etc Add it all together and its was almost the same. Of course my neighbor had a dyna for a long time and he had no clue about it. But on his DR he was surprised how easy some stuff was. And he said some cases it was impossible to get a HD working right, like one cyl could suck the mix right out of the other cyl at certain rpm's.
I hope Buell comes back with a TRX motor in that frame ... 03-06 was it, XB 9 with that TRX in it. Nothing else needs to be changed. heck, dont even need the 5 valve, 4 is plenty, just stuff that one in it and sell it in the US. Even call it a buell I dont care.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: The Buddha on October 19, 2009, 08:27:22 AM
I like triumph, especially the parallel twin cruisers.
I'm surprised to hear you say that. Why haven't you ever mentioned like you like parallel twins before?? :thumb:
Yeah, I think it's just a good example of how two companies with similar reputations and their fingers in the same market had such different results. Even though they still have their problems, the Speed/Street triples do great because they've got the European market behind it that loves naked bikes, where as Buell has the American market, which loves sportsbikes and cruisers, and rarely anything in between. If Triumph was American and Buell was European, I feel like we'd be having this same discussion but with Triumph on the losing end of it instead. The only real difference is that Triumph has a really fast motor for their street bikes, but most people don't really care because if it doesn't have a full fairing they refuse to believe it's fast.
A proper 400-500 twin with a lot of modern features, most notably fuel injection and some good economy oriented innovation as well as creature comforts in cols weather probably will sell even in the US.
Yea Buell's frame is oriented toward a big motor. May not be ideal for this line of product. I am nearly sure they could do that to a GS. FI and good sensor driven everything. Of course it prolly has to be water cooled.
Cool.
Buddha.
Well, that's too bad, I have seen Buells on the road. Would I buy one? Probably not, I had a HD already.
Wonder how long the V-Rod line will last. I WOULD buy one of them. But never an air-cooled big twin again (slow, heavy, expensive, antiquated paint shakers).