I'm driving around the southern Illinois area and all I see around me is people wearing t-shirts, shorts, and no helmet! Crazy!!
Yeah, I went back home to Delaware (no helmet law) for a week after living in California for 5 years, and there were a lot of people with no helmets, wearing tshirts and shorts.
I am always amazed at all the people that ride around without gear. In NJ we have a helmet law so people always have atleast some kind of helmet on. But i have crossed the border into PA on a few occasions and have seen bikers pull over to the side of the road to stop and take off their helmet cause their is no helmet law in PA.
I am a big fan of the Harley riders that wear a leather vest and consider that to be worthy of gear.
I ride with a lot of stunters that where little to no gear. Kind of funny seeing them doing crazy stuff with just a helmet (required in MD) while I'm in full gear. I choose to wear a helmet when I'm back home in Pennsylvania even though it is not required. It's a personal choice though which is the beauty of living in a "free" society. They can where as little gear as they want as long as it meets the minimum requirement for the state they are in. Their body, their life, their choice :thumb:
-Jessie
Guy at the supermarket. Helmet - check. Leather jacket - kinda check as it was a going out type of jacket not a riding jacket and looked so shiny it was almost like vinyl. Legs... shorts. Feet... flipflops! I s'pose half protected it better than none. Funny sight, though.
Michael
I'm guilty. I ride around half the time with sun glasses ("Eye protection" is required in AZ, not helmets.) T-shirt and shorts. Today I was riding in a "sports mesh wife beater." I ALWAYS wear some kind of shoes though.. Usually my Dr. Marten leather boots. I don't even understand the guys riding around in sandals or flips. It's hard to put on ATGATT when it's 110F... Any time I ride double with my wife on the back we wear our helmets and jackets.
The one time I crashed a street bike I was wearing long pants, long sleeves, and sun glasses.. I slid across about 10 lanes worth of intersection. Kept my head up and used my forearms for skid pads.. minor road rash healed in a weak. I've been hurt worse on a 49cc "Pocket bike." I went over the handle bars when the front wheel came off.. twice.. (had to get home somehow!) Both times - tucked and landed on my shoulder and rolled. Keep your head up!
When I used to have and ride my ATV a lot I always got hurt worse when I was wearing a helmet because I would do "more dangerous" things.
This is just my $.02. This is not advice.. and certainly not a good idea or anything anyone with a brain in their head should do. But, thankfully, I live in a 'free' society and it's my choice if I want my brains splattered IF I get in a crash that bad.
I still was amazed to see how many people, on all different types of bikes, ride without gear. I mean just put a helmet on, at the very least, and your chances of not sustaining major injury increases dramatically. Just say'n :cookoo:
I've always, and will always, wear a helmet. I didn't wear a jacket for the longest time for the past summers and falls. At least not when it was too hot. All I had was a heavy leather jacket w/ a liner that didn't zip out.
Now I have the Joe Rocket Atomic jacket, and I'll wear that 'til it falls off my back. It's so comfy, and SUPER cool with all the venting it has. Also has a removable heavy liner, that will be great for fall/winter.
I was talking to a guy at work that has about 700 miles on his Ninja 650. He has been down once already. Doesn't wear any gear accept helmet and gloves. Sent him some links to some reasonable gear last week, but he hasn't had a chance to look at it. He was saying today that he was going to get a louder muffler so cars would hear him coming and that would make him safer. I was thinking that perhaps taking a MSF class, getting his license, slowing down, and getting some gear would be a better use of resources, but to each his own. I kept my opinions to myself. We live in a free country protected by the Constitution! :cheers:
I guess my thoughts on the manner are. If you ride with out gear you should be required by law to carry enough insurance to cover a catastrophic event. It should not be the taxpayers burden to pay for your dumb a$$.
In Florida we kinda have that law. If you want to ride without a helmet you are supposed to carry $25000 of medical insurance. But, it is never enforced and you don't have to carry insurance on the bike at all.
I'm def an ATGATT person. It was 97 with 98% humidity but the jacket still goes on. A shower will get the sweat off. Road rash not so much.
Mary
I'm too important to ride without gear.
Hel! wants me too much. :icon_twisted:
I always wear full leathers, pants and jacket, even in the midst of our Australian summer where it regularly hovers around or above 40C. I just wear a cooling vest underneath and avoid traffic lights as much as possible :icon_lol: It's only when you stop that the heat gets to you.
Riding gear is also (apart from the protection) purpose made. It won't flap annoyingly in the wind, the legs won't pull up and make you look like a twerp, and you'll be protected from bugs. It's ventilated in the right places and will not hinder movement or tangle in the brake lever.
Riding up to an intersection, coming to a stop and discovering that your shoelaces has tied your foot to the bike when your already starting to lean the bike isn't all that fun (at the time :icon_mrgreen:). This I know from experience..
Good leathers also support the body when riding, making it less of an effort.
The only drawback is a tendency for the seat to stretch to a kind of hillbilly-style.
I live in Philadelphia and always have gloves/jacket/helmet on for short distance riding (mile down the road to work, or 10 miles to my parents house). When I get off of work and go cruising/spirited rides I put on my pants and racing boots... gear just makes you look cooler if anything.
Also if anyone is around Philly/S. Jersey, hit me up!
When I ride to work, I have lace-up steel-capped work boots. Laces ALWAYS tucked in. Jacket, mesh with winter and rain lining. So in Summer I can ride in the 80% humidity without keeling over. Even then, sometimes I have to drench my top underneath so I have a somewhat cooling effect while riding. Cause at a certain temp, the flowing air stops being Cooling by itself and it like having a heater on you. This way the water evaporates and helps cool while still being protected. Mesh kevlar and padded gloves for Summer, leather (deer skin) for winter.
Michael
At the VERY MINIMUM, you should protect your brain! Unless you plan on not using it the rest of your life, or if you don't mind having someone change your diapers for the next 30 years. (Some of you might enjoy that.)
I have a mesh jacket with armor, gloves, and a pair of motorcycle boots. I do wear jeans, which is probably my weak spot.
I always see the schools of squid on the local highways with shorts and t-shirts and sunglasses. I saw one with fresh road rash down his entire right side (arms, legs, torso) at the bike shop, getting his bike fixed. OUCH!
Regarding people who ride without gear ( I love the shorts and flip flop people)...we can only hope they haven't procreated so they don't pass on the stupid genes :icon_lol: That being said I don't agree with laws that force you to wear even a helmet. I live int he free state of New Hampshire...no helmet laws...no seat belt law....only one in the country with that. :cheers:
I've always been of the opinion that common sense will prevail, but sadly sometimes it just doesn't. When I see a supersport ripping down the highway at 120+mph and the rider is wearing shorts and a shirt (which the wind is whipping up his back) I do shake my head. He could be the best rider around but man ... if something happened ... get out the spatula. To each his own.
I don't particulary like being told what to do (even if its for my own benefit) ie: I went in my car a few years back to the corner store, its literally .5 km from my house, and I got a no seatbelt ticket, 110 bucks. >:(
Stupidity is incurable. Legislating does not cure it.
I'm pretty solidly AGATT after an educational experience about what jeans are not (acceptable riding gear) which made it difficult to sit down for weeks. Within recent memory I did ride somewhere in "normal" boots and pants once, and felt half-naked doing so. I don't ride in boots with laces. I also run a very strict no alcohol when riding policy - I want all my brain on-line and up to speed when riding. Within a few years I extended that to driving as well, kissing the drink-an-hour "rule" goodbye and good riddance.
Still, my own research into the helmet law issue (Never ride without, never wanted to) was enlightening - evidently stupid people wearing a helmet, t-shirt, shorts and flip flops feel more invincible than stupid people wearing a t-shirt, shorts and flip-flops, and actually get hurt more per mile ridden. The major effect of helmet laws is to drastically reduce miles ridden, which slightly reduces total number of injuries. They also slightly reduce head injuries relative to other injuries. Factoid - helmet is mostly good for a fall from riding height to the pavement. Hit a solid object at 20 mph or so, helmet or not does not matter much, you're usually dead either way.
As for me, I'd love to take some of these gearless types out for a nice highway ride in June-bug season. When one of those impacts the helmet or (heavily leathered or Aerostiched) chest at 50 mph, it's a solid hit. I wouldn't care to take one in the face rather than the helmet.
Love my Tanker Boots:
http://www.uscav.com/productinfo.aspx?productid=5713 (http://www.uscav.com/productinfo.aspx?productid=5713)
I've had them re-soled twice in the past 11 years.
They're just squishy in the heavy rain.
Maybe a pair of Sidi On-Road's soon.
Or something in stingray leather:
http://motorcowboy.zoovy.com/category/motorcycle_boots/ (http://motorcowboy.zoovy.com/category/motorcycle_boots/)
It's gazillion times tougher.
Ever tried to stab a stingray? I have - it's pretty hard.
maybe because I have only had my license since April, but I always wear my gear (AGV GSXR Jacket, Boots, Gloves, Helmet,) even though it gets pretty hot sitting at the lights. It just feels taboo not to have it. Unfortunately I have seen very few individuals here in PA with the same philosophy.
I'm curious what I'll end up doing when I'm old. I wouldn't be surprised if I ended up buying a cruiser at some point when I'm older, but it's so easy to feel normal wearing full gear on a sportbike. I'd definitely still want to wear full gear on a cruiser, but it'll take some getting used to as you're clearly the nerd with glasses and pocket protector out of the bunch. I love the feeling of having my head in a helmet when I'm up to speed though.
I feel like I stay perfectly cool in my summer jacket, if you get hot at a redlight and start to sweat, it's just extra moisture to cool you off when you start moving. I think it actually keeps you the coolest when you start to sweat every once in a while
I don't give a rats bum what any one wears while they ride, they're old enough and ugly to look after themselves. If some one has their kid on the back of the bike with no protective gear, then I'm pissed off. it's a parents job the look after their children and protect them from injury to the best of their ability.
Be thankful that we have the choice to wear what you want when you ride.
If it's too hot for me to wear gear, it's too hot to ride.
As far as anyone else is concerned, I'm not their mother...except when it comes to my daughter. :icon_lol:
To each their own so if your riding without some type of protection then that is your own decision. I personally wear Helmet, gloves, riding jacket, and motorcycle boots but fail to ride with motorcycle pants, just jeans. Then again, I wear more gear than most bikers (t-shirt and helmet only, etc...)
Sometimes you just gotta roll... :cheers:
(http://home.comcast.net/~stykers/ch80roll.jpg)
Quote from: bubba zanetti on June 17, 2010, 03:32:23 PM
Be thankful that we have the choice to wear what you want when you ride.
I always thought it would be cool if everyone was made to wear the same black riding outfit, and had their bikes painted black. That way you couldn't ever get in trouble for anything!
Screw that, I don't want every one looking like me.
Guess I'm just reiterating the point that I don't want to pay for some squid who rode without a helmet and is sitting on life support for the next 30 years.
Just make sure you can pay for your catastrophe and I'll agree that you can wear anything you want!
Mary
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t196/84CrapJ7/beatdeadhorse_290.gif)
Nah, he's just sleeping. The beatings will continue until morale improves!
Mary
Quote from: Homer on June 18, 2010, 01:18:05 AM
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t196/84CrapJ7/beatdeadhorse_290.gif)
Looks like the rider is okay after that spill. Maybe it's because he was wearing his riding gear?
I don't think a Top Hat is an approved helmet for horseback riding.... :nono:
My work is 1.3 miles down the road. I still wear my Shift Jacket, gloves, helm, jeans and either my Tims, or puma shoes :wink:
Quote from: DoD#i on June 17, 2010, 08:17:48 AM
Stupidity is incurable. Legislating does not cure it.
Beating a dead horse?
On the contrary Sir, this is the good part of the thread, where all the noobs start chiming in, (hence my post).
My own observations of street bikers in New Jersey. . .
1.) Most noobs wear ATGATT because that's what they think they're supposed to do.
2.) Most Adventurer/Tourer types wear ATGATT because (I assume) it goes well with they're BMW's and hard luggage. They are into the survival motif by design anyway.
3.) Harley riders are exempt from every conceivable law of physics that apply to Japanese or European bikes so no gear needed for them.
plewis51 did indeed start an interesting thread here. It was surprising to see so many ATGATT people chime in.
I myself ride ATGATT because I'm old, chicken hearted, have a nice thin wife, a fat ugly mortgage, and two teenage kids that also ride.
Makes sense, no?
Any other ATGATT theory's or observations out there?
Here's your chance, Post!
-Ej-
P.S. One final thought on this;
I work hard, make a good salary, and pay grueling taxes. If you ride naked and get hurt, I'll pay my share to scrape you off the road and get you healed.
Liberties are good, laws are bad.
Ride as you please.
"-Ej- and family riding ATGATT & sweating our nuts off all summer long doing it"! :cheers:
Quote from: Electrojake on June 18, 2010, 03:09:41 PM
3.) Harley riders are exempt from every conceivable law of physics that apply to Japanese or European bikes so no gear needed for them.
I
still hear them saying they "had to lay it down". Like maybe the physics of old fat guys on chrome encrusted two-wheeled couches deny all the expert advice given by, well, experts.
Quote from: plewis51 on June 16, 2010, 07:06:14 PM
I still was amazed to see how many people, on all different types of bikes, ride without gear. I mean just put a helmet on, at the very least, and your chances of not sustaining major injury increases dramatically. Just say'n :cookoo:
I'm of the opinion that if I'm gonna wear a helmet, I'm gonna go ATGATT. If I'm gonna have that much road rash I don't want to survive!
That said I'm a big fan of ATGATT. I uhhh "laid the bike down" about a month ago, and the fact that I only had mild rash where the jacket road up kinda supports my position. I just wish it did more for the blunt force and breaking injuries...
I've never ridden without my helmet, in the 4000 miles I've but on my GS since February, even to the gas station 2 blocks away, because I know the one time I don't, that's probably the time some shi t will go down. I rode without my leather jacket pretty often, but this week I picked up a Joe Rocket textile jacket, and with the vents open it's actually very comfortable. I wear gloves all the time as well, for safety first, but it also looks kinda silly riding a motorcycle without gloves on. I have some retarded tan lines from riding with my gloves on and no jacket before I bought the textile one, lol.
Quote from: PachmanP on June 18, 2010, 09:45:54 PM
I uhhh "laid the bike down" about a month ago, and the fact that I only had mild rash where the jacket road up kinda supports my position.
I just wish it did more for the blunt force and breaking injuries...
Ouch!
Not to wander off topic but. . .
PachmanP, could you post a link to the details of your recent "lay-her-down" experience?
I, like a lot of noobs, study rider safety with a microscope.
Most motorcycle forums have a "Tell Us About Your Last miss-hap" section.
So I was just wondering. (http://mysite.verizon.net/vze2wc9e/ummm.gif)
I (we) could probably learn something from it, or at least be entertained.
Back on topic. . .
The ONLY negative to ATGATT is the heat & sweat issue. On hot summer afternoons coming home from work in rush-hour traffic the sweat from all the gear ruins the ride.
Riders that live in the South and/or West cant possibly ride in full gear during the summer.
Heat stroke for sure! >:(
I ride ATGATT, even on hot days (100F+).
All my gear is vented stuff suited to summers. My jacket is a Leather/Textile mix, with removable winter linings (good for 32F at 70mph). Matching pants if I feel like it, or kevlar jeans. Alpine Stars boots.
Heat isn't a problem if you buy gear that is suited to it.
Might be a good time to mention the (evidently not known to some) existence of cooling vests, either inexpensive and ice-based, or the more expensive wax-based types. Stuff one under your coat and be cool like cucumber for hours. The supposed advantage of the wax is it's easier to cool quickly (dump in a tub of ice water) and it melts at a more comfortable temperature (around 60-70F/16-21C), but I suspect the ice types would be fine if you get the right amount of clothing between you and the ice. I keep not quite buying one because I live far enough north that's it's usually not much of an issue, though it's become more of one lately.
I'm not talking about (even less expensive) evaporative cooling vests - those might be worth looking at for desert-climate folks under a vented jacket. Where I'm at when it's hot, it's humid, so evaporative cooling is almost useless.
So many opinions.
Yet... there was no support when I was criticized for owning this:
http://motoport.worldsecuresystems.com/_product_106904/Ultra_Trek_1-Piece_Air_Mesh_Kevlar_Suit (http://motoport.worldsecuresystems.com/_product_106904/Ultra_Trek_1-Piece_Air_Mesh_Kevlar_Suit)
Spent $1400 on it, with liner, upgraded reflectivity panels, emergency info pocket, reversed zippers, and shipping. I use it every single day, and it's saved my @ss more than a few times.
And, I'm about to upgrade to the Stage 4 armor.
Most of you don't even wear pants.
Or, only if you "feel" like it. Your "jacket" is an off-the-rack Joe Rocket made from panty hose, or your helmet is the coolest looking thing you could find.
I have a dual-beam headlight modulator, with Silverstar Ultras. Taillight modulator with turn-signal running lights. I still have the OEM reflectors, and will never take them off. My helmet is covered with retroreflection, and I'm upgrading to a high-vis pretty soon. I'll put retroreflection on it, as well.
My new bike has an air-horn on order. My wife's buying me a SPOT personal tracker that calls 911 automatically. I'm installing sprockets to SLOW DOWN.
I don't own a BMW or hard luggage. Nor do I have a survival fetish. I do like being alive. I don't like worthless opinions.
It's good to see you guys are passionate about your gear.
I use a double insulated Frank Thomas jacket & pants for the cold Northeastern winters and a RevIt summer-mesh jacket & pants for the summer.
Also, an Arai helmet, gloves, boots, and this little goodie shown below. . .
(http://www.safermoto.com/products/vest_ys/image/contents.jpg)
LINK>>> http://www.safermoto.com/products/vest_ys/index.html (http://www.safermoto.com/products/vest_ys/index.html)
John at SaferMoto was so nice during the transaction process it was unbelievable. During the deal I also upgraded the back protector and added optional rib-crush protection.
When I first started looking into the available AirBag jackets and vests about 2 years ago they were over $1000 for a generation one unit. Since then the price has come down to well under the $500 mark and I think they are on gen-3 now.
Yeah, its a tad heavy but it is very well built. Outstanding workmanship at every seam and zipper. Truly a nice vest and adjusts to fit over summer or winter jackets, (or over just a tee shirt if you wish).
As for the cooling vests. . .
I've seen them the in the bike shops but just assumed they had to be soaking wet to work. :dunno_black:
If there is such a thing as a dry version, I may have found an answer.
Thanks for the info!
-Ej-
Here, weenie:
http://entrosys.com/ (http://entrosys.com/)
Otherwise,
http://www.shockdoctor.com/product/shockskin-5-pad-sleeveless-impact-shirt.aspx (http://www.shockdoctor.com/product/shockskin-5-pad-sleeveless-impact-shirt.aspx)
Quote from: Homer on June 19, 2010, 01:14:33 PM
Here, weenie:
http://entrosys.com/ (http://entrosys.com/)
Otherwise,
http://www.shockdoctor.com/product/shockskin-5-pad-sleeveless-impact-shirt.aspx (http://www.shockdoctor.com/product/shockskin-5-pad-sleeveless-impact-shirt.aspx)
Thats FANTASTIC!
You DA Man :bowdown:
You just gave me a link to the Mother of all gadgets... and that second-skin thing looks kinda' interesting too.
I'm in Off-Topic Paradise :thumb:
I don't get it for you northern folks. I get it down here, though. 100*F 120% humidity; helmets and gear are so hot that even at night, you can arrive at your destination drenched in sweat.
I ride with helmet, boots, jeans, gloves, mesh jacket in the summer. I'm guilty of riding in shorts once to go to the beach and occasionally I ride without a jacket. Always with a helmet, though. I at least want my family to be able to have an open casket funeral (even if I get decapitated, they can still reattach my head for the funeral :))
Heat is relative.
Antarctic researchers wear short sleeves when it gets up to -20 F.
I'm acclimated to my CyclePort. 108* NC summers, plus the reflected heat from long asphalt highways.
I get the shivers when I take it off.
Takes about 2 weeks to get acclimated to new gear/climate. Sometimes more.
Underneath, I wear jeans/slacks, a t-shirt, and usually a business-casual button-up. Shorts are for bicycle cops and little boys playing in the sandbox.
And, since I have red hair, the hi-vis CyclePort reflects UV for me. I'm MORE comfortable in it.
Nice vest, EJ. John is a really nice guy. Here is my second favorite piece of gear, next to my helmet! Not heavy at all in my opinion. The Tpro replacement back protector I put in my scorpion hat trick jacket is probably heavier than the vest.
Homer, I'm ordering reflective stickers this week for my helmet and bike. I don't ride that much at night time, but I'm starting to more and more. The bright orange helmet already gives me lots of visibility during the daytime.
I did compromise on the pants. I don't wear jeans, but I wear double front carhartts with armored shorts and knee pads. Some say you should wear quality race boots, but I wear touring boot.
at some point, and everyone's is different, you realize no matter what you wear, your biggest protection is riding defensively, and if you believe in a higher power of any sort, making sure they know your going for a ride! :cheers:
(http://www.safermoto.com/products/vest_mlv/image/MLV_specsheet.jpg)
Quote from: Homer on June 19, 2010, 11:17:38 AM
So many opinions.
Yet... there was no support when I was criticized for owning this:
http://motoport.worldsecuresystems.com/_product_106904/Ultra_Trek_1-Piece_Air_Mesh_Kevlar_Suit (http://motoport.worldsecuresystems.com/_product_106904/Ultra_Trek_1-Piece_Air_Mesh_Kevlar_Suit)
Spent $1400 on it, with liner, upgraded reflectivity panels, emergency info pocket, reversed zippers, and shipping. I use it every single day, and it's saved my @ss more than a few times.
And, I'm about to upgrade to the Stage 4 armor.
My God Man!
I just checked out the www.motoport.com web site for a look at your armor.
$900.00 for an outfitted riding jacket and $495.00 for a pair of armored jeans!?! <gasp> :o
That must be some high quality riding gear you've got.
I guess my $450 HitAir vest isn't that impressive after all.
Very nice gear indeed Homer.
LINK> http://www.motoport.com/Home (http://www.motoport.com/Home)
-Ej-
Quote from: redhawkdancing on June 20, 2010, 07:22:09 PM
Nice vest, EJ. John is a really nice guy. Here is my second favorite piece of gear, next to my helmet! Not heavy at all in my opinion.
Homer, I'm ordering reflective stickers this week for my helmet and bike.
. . . your biggest protection is riding defensively, and if you believe in a higher power of any sort, making sure they know your going for a ride!
Exactly!
-Ej-
I turned down a fishing trip with Barnacle Bill, in the new boat his wife bought from Goodwill.
Yes, that Barnacle Bill.
That's how much I love my MotoPort.
He's retiring soon, so if anyone wants a piece of American history - they should go see him. :cry:
I want Ghostrider's outfit :>
I think that kevlar suit is a little overkill, but that's just me. I really should wear protective pants, but I commute to work daily on the GS, and I cant wear my kevlar reinforced jeans with our dress code, so I only wear the jeans a few days a week. And then there's times when the jeans are dirty and I just rock some silvertabs. I love my joe rocket jacket though, I'm pretty sure it's going to protect me from road rash as well as any other textile jacket, and isn't that all anyone wears safety gear for?
Quote from: tykho on June 21, 2010, 01:04:06 AM
I want Ghostrider's outfit :>
I think that kevlar suit is a little overkill, but that's just me. I really should wear protective pants, but I commute to work daily on the GS, and I cant wear my kevlar reinforced jeans with our dress code, so I only wear the jeans a few days a week. And then there's times when the jeans are dirty and I just rock some silvertabs. I love my joe rocket jacket though, I'm pretty sure it's going to protect me from road rash as well as any other textile jacket, and isn't that all anyone wears safety gear for?
Yeah, I think a jacket is a jacket is a jacket. A one-piece suit is great for commuting cause you can wear your work clothes underneath.
The motoport won't save your life wear another jacket or suit wouldn't, but it's got a great feature: it flows a lot of air without sacrificing much protection, probably better than anything else from what I've read. A one-piece motoport would be perfect all year round for commuting. I don't have the coin for one, though =/
Here we go... :icon_rolleyes:
Quote from: Homer on June 19, 2010, 11:17:38 AM
So many opinions.
Yet... there was no support when I was criticized for owning this:
http://motoport.worldsecuresystems.com/_product_106904/Ultra_Trek_1-Piece_Air_Mesh_Kevlar_Suit (http://motoport.worldsecuresystems.com/_product_106904/Ultra_Trek_1-Piece_Air_Mesh_Kevlar_Suit)
Spent $1400 on it, with liner, upgraded reflectivity panels, emergency info pocket, reversed zippers, and shipping. I use it every single day, and it's saved my @ss more than a few times.
And, I'm about to upgrade to the Stage 4 armor.
Most of you don't even wear pants.
Or, only if you "feel" like it. Your "jacket" is an off-the-rack Joe Rocket made from panty hose, or your helmet is the coolest looking thing you could find.
I have a dual-beam headlight modulator, with Silverstar Ultras. Taillight modulator with turn-signal running lights. I still have the OEM reflectors, and will never take them off. My helmet is covered with retroreflection, and I'm upgrading to a high-vis pretty soon. I'll put retroreflection on it, as well.
My new bike has an air-horn on order. My wife's buying me a SPOT personal tracker that calls 911 automatically. I'm installing sprockets to SLOW DOWN.
I don't own a BMW or hard luggage. Nor do I have a survival fetish. I do like being alive. I don't like worthless opinions.
Wow!! Ok, I have a big bonus coming early next year and I think I may set aside a bit for that suit. I comute a lot and that looks great for all weather etc..!
As for heat, I know that suit may be optimal but lets be realistic..not everyone can afford that. On the other hand, why someone wouldn't spend every cent they can on good gear they CAN afford I don't get. Heat sucks but I own the following:
http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/1/1/39/20105/ITEM/Teknic-Chicane-Jacket.aspx?SiteID=CSE_Gbase_20105&WT.mc_ID=80003&zmam=88421133&zmas=1&zmac=45&zmap=20105 (http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/1/1/39/20105/ITEM/Teknic-Chicane-Jacket.aspx?SiteID=CSE_Gbase_20105&WT.mc_ID=80003&zmam=88421133&zmas=1&zmac=45&zmap=20105)
and for pants:
http://www.kneedraggers.com/details/Dainese_Drake_Air_Textile_Pants--614173.html (http://www.kneedraggers.com/details/Dainese_Drake_Air_Textile_Pants--614173.html)
The pants are a bit heavier than normal being Cordura fabric 750 denier. I also had a zipper sewn into the pants so they mesh up with the jacket. A must in my book.
Boots:
http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/1/1/36/17782/ITEM/Diadora-Avenue-Boots.aspx (http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/1/1/36/17782/ITEM/Diadora-Avenue-Boots.aspx)
Gloves are some Teknic older ones. I need a new set as they are my backups and my mains got persnickerd up on a slow fall...ummm..yeah....
Anyways..I get crap at work for wearing my "outfit" and I have the same response to all of them. GO to hell! My skin my gear. I know it's not the top of line but I stay pleanty cool when it hits 100 degrees and I dang sure never want road rash again. I had some when I was a teenager riding and stupid as hell. Never again..that stuff sucks!
I also have a cute girlfriend, two great kids, and an awesome job.
You can't remove risk..but you sure as hell can mitigate it.
I really need to get some boots, I've been riding with just my etnies on and I know I'm going to regret it. I love my kevlar jeans, I want to try out a pair of textile pants, they seem like they would be really comfortable and just as cool as anything else. I'll keep an eye on craigslist for a used pair :p
The people that need gear the most:
1) can't afford it
2) won't buy it because it's not "cool"
Instead of government regulations, there should be a reward system. Like the stimulus check.
If you buy gear, we'll give you a check to cover most of the cost.
No gear - no check.
Or a tax write-off. But, that's something few 20-somethings use, anyway.
It's like I just told a local kid: Buy 5, 6, 7 riding outfits, upgrading from each one. Never able to sell them for what you paid, if even at all.
OR - just buy one single VERY NICE piece and be done with it.
Edit:
As far as riding in Etnies.... You've seen the video of the guy's shoe flying off as he hits a Chevy Blazer.
Everyone has. It's one of the first videos everyone watches when they start riding.
You know it's bad, yet you talk about it. Like you keep talking about your lack of pants.
I was on the debate team - I know when I'm being baited.
Find someone else to argue with.
Quote from: Homer on June 21, 2010, 12:02:22 PM
The people that need gear the most:
1) can't afford it
2) won't buy it because it's not "cool"
Instead of government regulations, there should be a reward system. Like the stimulus check.
If you buy gear, we'll give you a check to cover most of the cost.
No gear - no check.
Or a tax write-off. But, that's something few 20-somethings use, anyway.
It's like I just told a local kid: Buy 5, 6, 7 riding outfits, upgrading from each one. Never able to sell them for what you paid, if even at all.
OR - just buy one single VERY NICE piece and be done with it.
Edit:
As far as riding in Etnies.... You've seen the video of the guy's shoe flying off as he hits a Chevy Blazer.
Everyone has. It's one of the first videos everyone watches when they start riding.
You know it's bad, yet you talk about it. Like you keep talking about your lack of pants.
I was on the debate team - I know when I'm being baited.
Find someone else to argue with.
I like the tax idea. Funny that people won't give up a few cents in their taxes to keep people out of the hosptial but when they do end up in it anyways due to no gear a lot of times we end up paying anyways :icon_confused:
As for riding in anything other than boots made for Motorcycles with zippers or laces that tuck in...enjoy :embarrassed:
http://www.kawiforums.com/newbie-corner/116620-new-rider-crash-amputee-please-read.html (http://www.kawiforums.com/newbie-corner/116620-new-rider-crash-amputee-please-read.html)
This thread is getting better not worse.
The EWOOD420 story on http://www.kawiforums.com/newbie-corner/116620-new-rider-crash-amputee-please-read.html was sweet.
What's not to like? A noobie on a super-bike with a set of steel balls. Nice!
And Homer, Just cause your being baited doesn't mean you cant work the crowd. Your posts have been most of the meat & potatoes in the thread all along.
(I mean, ya know, I'm just sayin'). Ya' got good input and it is refreshing to "not" be talking about ebay headlight mounts, valve shims, and carburetor jetting stuff all the time :thumb:
This ATGATT conversation has produced a lot of interesting info IMHO. (http://mysite.verizon.net/vze2wc9e/2cents.gif)
Quote from: hambonee on June 21, 2010, 12:18:20 PM
I like the tax idea. Funny that people won't give up a few cents in their taxes to keep people out of the hosptial but when they do end up in it anyways due to no gear a lot of times we end up paying anyways :icon_confused:
As for riding in anything other than boots made for Motorcycles with zippers or laces that tuck in...enjoy :embarrassed:
http://www.kawiforums.com/newbie-corner/116620-new-rider-crash-amputee-please-read.html (http://www.kawiforums.com/newbie-corner/116620-new-rider-crash-amputee-please-read.html)
To be fair, it sounds like his problem wasn't his choice of gear, but that he was an idiot. Gear is an absolute last resort, way behind good judgement.
Really, jump off the bike because you can't control it after you accelerate close to 100mph?
Yah Yah..the common sense factor was the main culprit...but it bled into gear. The idjit MAY have still had his foot with proper gear..but hell..never should have been riding in the first place.
However, I do agree that Homer's post have been good stuff. Some good info in this thread! :icon_razz:
oh..and the brother story to the not too bright crowd:
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/96249044.html
Superbikes and new riders...gotta love em...thats why I loved my gs500f. Broke me in nice and easy..
RE the guy on the 636: High $$ boots may not save a foot that hits a curb at 75 mph.
Quote from: Paulcet on June 21, 2010, 07:05:58 PM
RE the guy on the 636: High $$ boots may not save a foot that hits a curb at 75 mph.
HmmMMm..0% chance of saving foot with sneakers or what not vs. MAY not with decent boots.
I'll take the may thank you.
Quote from: Homer on June 19, 2010, 11:17:38 AM
So many opinions.
Yet... there was no support when I was criticized for owning this:
http://motoport.worldsecuresystems.com/_product_106904/Ultra_Trek_1-Piece_Air_Mesh_Kevlar_Suit (http://motoport.worldsecuresystems.com/_product_106904/Ultra_Trek_1-Piece_Air_Mesh_Kevlar_Suit)
Spent $1400 on it, with liner, upgraded reflectivity panels, emergency info pocket, reversed zippers, and shipping. I use it every single day, and it's saved my @ss more than a few times.
And, I'm about to upgrade to the Stage 4 armor.
Most of you don't even wear pants.
Or, only if you "feel" like it. Your "jacket" is an off-the-rack Joe Rocket made from panty hose, or your helmet is the coolest looking thing you could find.
I have a dual-beam headlight modulator, with Silverstar Ultras. Taillight modulator with turn-signal running lights. I still have the OEM reflectors, and will never take them off. My helmet is covered with retroreflection, and I'm upgrading to a high-vis pretty soon. I'll put retroreflection on it, as well.
My new bike has an air-horn on order. My wife's buying me a SPOT personal tracker that calls 911 automatically. I'm installing sprockets to SLOW DOWN.
I don't own a BMW or hard luggage. Nor do I have a survival fetish. I do like being alive. I don't like worthless opinions.
How has it saved your life?
Gear is basically Personal Protective Equipment (PPE). Just like any form of PPE for your job. Though, it's for motorcyclists.
And in your job, it is Not designed to make you indestructible like Superman. In a Hazard/Risk "Hierarchy of Control", PPE is the absolute Last resort. It exists for when all other avenues of hazard prevention fail. Other avenues being... different speed, different position on road in traffic, active scanning, traffic reading, pro-active avoidance, improved ridding skills, removal of activity that is high risk but with little reward, etc.
And just like workplace Hierarchy of Controls, those other avenues should be developed first. Such as, doing a riding course to improve your riding.
Don't be like the Scooter Rider on the highway tonight. HighViz Reflective Vest on while riding in his lane but close to the shoulder. His lane position invited people to pass him half in his lane. His risk has increased just due to lane pozi. But worse, he is relying on his HighViz to protect him while doing 20-25 clicks slower than posted limit. At night, without the 3D visual reference we use in daylight, other vehicles will come upon him and only realize at the last minute how slow he is. He is courting danger. Placing himself in a dangerous position. Scooter riders have been killed in this city for doing this.
Hierarchy of Control.... remove the hazard = ride on a different road where your vehicle can do the require speed instead of relying on high-priced gear to protect you from your own stupidity.
Why do people buy Cheaper gear? Because it allows them protection to a standard They feel comfortable with. Why buy 5mm thick leathers when track days won't ever be had and thus the likelihood of sliding for any great length of time and thus needing 5mm thick leathers is diminished? Why spend a thousand bux on a helmet when the $200 helmet meets the same standards? Why pay more $ for a Name when the less-trendy name does the same thing (and is probably made in the same factory)?
My experience tells me, people Will pay more IF you can give them a Valid Reason Why - and it must be a reason They deem to be valid.
Michael
To piggy back on what mister is saying about hazard/risk assessment. I've thought a lot about this over the years and have softened my stance on ATGATT, helmet laws, etc. I still wear full gear every time I ride, but I no longer get worked up or tisk tisk people who choose to ride in less. Here's why: we accept a much bigger increase in risk by riding a motorcycle vs. driving in a car than someone who rides without full gear does vs. someone riding with full gear. ie, if we can rate "risk" on a scale of 1 (riding a train) to 10 (motorcycling drunk and naked), then I'd put being in a car at 2, riding ATGATT at 6, and riding without gear at 8. Just getting on the bike represents a big increase in risk over the altenatives, the additional risk of not wearing gear is relatively smaller.
So, if we get worked up about people riding without gear, then we must accept non-riders getting worked up about us riding period.
jeff
Quote from: Jeff P on June 22, 2010, 04:12:05 AM
So, if we get worked up about people riding without gear, then we must accept non-riders getting worked up about us riding period.
jeff
Good point!
ATGATT is good as a general guideline and I follow it but it's all different degrees of assumed risk (which I guess means I agree with mister)
Quote from: Jeff P on June 22, 2010, 04:12:05 AM
To piggy back on what mister is saying about hazard/risk assessment. I've thought a lot about this over the years and have softened my stance on ATGATT, helmet laws, etc. I still wear full gear every time I ride, but I no longer get worked up or tisk tisk people who choose to ride in less. Here's why: we accept a much bigger increase in risk by riding a motorcycle vs. driving in a car than someone who rides without full gear does vs. someone riding with full gear. ie, if we can rate "risk" on a scale of 1 (riding a train) to 10 (motorcycling drunk and naked), then I'd put being in a car at 2, riding ATGATT at 6, and riding without gear at 8. Just getting on the bike represents a big increase in risk over the altenatives, the additional risk of not wearing gear is relatively smaller.
So, if we get worked up about people riding without gear, then we must accept non-riders getting worked up about us riding period.
jeff
I've gotta disagree to some extent.
Riding with full gear can mean the difference between a hospital visit and just getting back on the bike and riding home, so there should be more numbers between 6 and 8 on your scale.
I don't believe motorcycles are as dangerous as people believe. Keep in mind half or more cycle accidents are single-vehicle crashes. Rider error.
This means there's huge opportunity to not get hurt.
Everybody wants to tell you about Uncle Bob who got killed riding his Harley, but they don't mention that he had a few drinks, had a wifebeater on, no helmet, no license endorsement, and no training. Uncle Bob makes the statistics look scary.
That's not to say you won't die if you wear gear.
Quote from: romulux on June 22, 2010, 06:42:44 AM
Quote from: Jeff P on June 22, 2010, 04:12:05 AM
jeff
I've gotta disagree to some extent.
Riding with full gear can mean the difference between a hospital visit and just getting back on the bike and riding home, so there should be more numbers between 6 and 8 on your scale.
I don't believe motorcycles are as dangerous as people believe. Keep in mind half or more cycle accidents are single-vehicle crashes. Rider error.
This means there's huge opportunity to not get hurt.
Everybody wants to tell you about Uncle Bob who got killed riding his Harley, but they don't mention that he had a few drinks, had a wifebeater on, no helmet, no license endorsement, and no training. Uncle Bob makes the statistics look scary.
That's not to say you won't die if you wear gear.
Truth here. Not worked up over not wearing the gear. Confusion is a better term.
Personal example....
I was taking a turn at about 15-20 MPH and hit something(probably loose gravel)..
THe bike just flipped over to the left and I came down particularly hard on my left knee with the full 430ish pounds of the bike plus my own weight.
I got up, brushed off my pride and rode across the street to look at the damage...
Moral of the story is I walked and rode away. After it I looked at the CE protectors in my knees and you could see the damage from the fall. I am SURE had I not been wearing them that would have been all she wrote for my knee cap and who knows if I ever would have been able to ride again. I hit HARD.. felt the jar.
How many times do you hear about those little low speed parking lot or whatever falls. It takes just one the wrong way to screw you up permanent.
Risk mitigation is all this PPE is but it sure the heck does make more of a difference than from a 6 to an 8. In the end people will do as people will do. It's just sad that some could get permanently F'ed up cause they convince themselves they dont need the stuff or it wont happen to them.
That's cool :cheers:
Looking at "deaths per 100 million miles travelled" stats points to how I came up with my "scale". In 2007 for automobiles it was 1.45, for motorcycles it was 38. Note, back in 1997 it was 1.03 for cars and 21 for bikes. I can only assume that the increasing size of bikes, greater numbers of older riders, and relaxed helmet laws have contributed to that huge increase. But let's use that number of 21/mil for arguments sake.
Now, as you point out, a big portion of that count is people who were drunk (about 1/3) or had no helmet (about 40% in 2008). So we can improve our odds considerably by staying sober and wearing a helmet. But, you can apply the same sort of logic to automobiles - a big percentage of people who die in cars were either drunk (also about 1/3) or not wearing a seatbelt (about 1/2). So, drive sober and wear your seatbelt and your risks go down in a car a lot too.
So while I agree that motorcycling isn't as dangerous as the general public may believe (even at 21/mil that's only 1 death per 4.8 million miles riden!), I think it's quite clear that no matter what precautions we take, it's not nearly as safe as being in a car. So that's why I made the jump from car --> bike 4 points, and from bike w/gear --> bike w/o gear only 2. We can argue about how the scale should look and how we can account for various factors, but that's my take on it.
jeff
Quote from: Jeff P on June 22, 2010, 07:50:11 AM
That's cool :cheers:
Looking at "deaths per 100 million miles travelled" stats points to how I came up with my "scale". In 2007 for automobiles it was 1.45, for motorcycles it was 38. Note, back in 1997 it was 1.03 for cars and 21 for bikes. I can only assume that the increasing size of bikes, greater numbers of older riders, and relaxed helmet laws have contributed to that huge increase. But let's use that number of 21/mil for arguments sake.
Now, as you point out, a big portion of that count is people who were drunk (about 1/3) or had no helmet (about 40% in 2008). So we can improve our odds considerably by staying sober and wearing a helmet. But, you can apply the same sort of logic to automobiles - a big percentage of people who die in cars were either drunk (also about 1/3) or not wearing a seatbelt (about 1/2). So, drive sober and wear your seatbelt and your risks go down in a car a lot too.
So while I agree that motorcycling isn't as dangerous as the general public may believe (even at 21/mil that's only 1 death per 4.8 million miles riden!), I think it's quite clear that no matter what precautions we take, it's not nearly as safe as being in a car. So that's why I made the jump from car --> bike 4 points, and from bike w/gear --> bike w/o gear only 2. We can argue about how the scale should look and how we can account for various factors, but that's my take on it.
jeff
Yup 8)
Quote from: bubba zanetti on June 21, 2010, 11:27:33 PM
How has it saved your life?
Last guy that asked me that, verbatim?
He argued that Baby Jesus already gave you the best impact protection - bones and muscles.
He was a big guy, surely had lots of bones and muscles. Literally thought it was sacrificial, that he had enough to spare. Pretty common train of thought.
Last time I saw him, he was standing in front of Target in Alamance Shopping Center, Burlington, NC.
3/4's of his cranium is now stainless steel (upper rear). Rods in his upper neck and spine. 1/2" thick nail inside his left femur. Forrest Gump style brace on the same leg (shattered his tib/fib and maleolus).
He said his heart stopped a few times. I didn't bother telling him it was from the potassium dumped into the blood by his muscles.
Hit a rabbit at 115 at 2 a.m., slid into a concrete storage building.
Told me the doctors did a bad job, because they kept hurting him. Wouldn't give him "pain medsin".
Told me he wished he'd had gear.
Said he didn't have a job and couldn't afford it, though. Said he was jealous and not trying to sound like a punk in front of his friends.
Said he still doesn't have a job, but he's trying to get one at a local place.
They make SkilCraft pens for the military and MRE's. Common hirer of the deaf, blind, and maimed. He has no skill outside manual labor, as usual.
I rode away.
Edit:The only guy who's REALLY too cool to wear gear? Buddha!
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t196/84CrapJ7/Bollywood_horse_slide.gif)
Everyone else?
This guy:
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t196/84CrapJ7/motivator7608202.jpg)
The "WTF are YOU looking at?" scowl... always a favorite.
Quote from: Homer on June 22, 2010, 08:04:40 AM
Hit a rabbit at 115 at 2 a.m., slid into a concrete storage building.
And there it is.... Gear or not, he was going to be maimed.
The key to intercepting smart-@ss comments is to think 3 moves ahead, like in chess.
Works with a lot of things, actually.
I never said he wasn't wearing a helmet. :icon_mrgreen:
The helmet shattered, but he lived through it. It's the only thing that saved his brain.
The broken tib/fib and crushed heel bone were from the initial tip-over. He likes (liked) to keep his heels pointed out, and the bike fell on him. He was wearing sneakers. The frame crushed his heel, and the asphalt grabbed the shoe material- twisted his leg until it broke.
He slid into the building backwards. Back of his head first, then spinal column. Broke the little bony tips that stick out at the base of your neck. Had he worn a back protector, they would have been cushioned.
The femur was from a fire hydrant that he MIGHT have glanced off of. That one's iffy.
Good armor will absorb a few hundred Newtons of impact force. Muscle... only a few dozen.
Edit:
Tom Petty's laughing because I set you up.
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t196/84CrapJ7/tompetty.jpg)
I'm not sure where you get your train of thought Homer but it's fairly interesting :cheers:
:cheers: I aim to please.
Friendship made. Boredom averted. Goals complete.
I'm out!
Forums say you're still online, you joker.
THis thread now recieves...
(http://thirtynothings.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/BuseyAwards.jpg)
(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.switched.com/media/2007/04/busey_two.jpg)
:thumb:
Of course I'm still online!
No one can resist Gary Busey!
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t196/84CrapJ7/garyhandtw6it7lh2.gif)
Quote from: Homer on June 22, 2010, 08:04:40 AM
Quote from: bubba zanetti on June 21, 2010, 11:27:33 PM
How has it saved your life?
Last guy that asked me that, verbatim?
He argued that Baby Jesus already gave you the best impact protection - bones and muscles.
He was a big guy, surely had lots of bones and muscles. Literally thought it was sacrificial, that he had enough to spare. Pretty common train of thought.
Last time I saw him, he was standing in front of Target in Alamance Shopping Center, Burlington, NC.
3/4's of his cranium is now stainless steel (upper rear). Rods in his upper neck and spine. 1/2" thick nail inside his left femur. Forrest Gump style brace on the same leg (shattered his tib/fib and maleolus).
He said his heart stopped a few times. I didn't bother telling him it was from the potassium dumped into the blood by his muscles.
Hit a rabbit at 115 at 2 a.m., slid into a concrete storage building.
Told me the doctors did a bad job, because they kept hurting him. Wouldn't give him "pain medsin".
Told me he wished he'd had gear.
Said he didn't have a job and couldn't afford it, though. Said he was jealous and not trying to sound like a punk in front of his friends.
Said he still doesn't have a job, but he's trying to get one at a local place.
They make SkilCraft pens for the military and MRE's. Common hirer of the deaf, blind, and maimed. He has no skill outside manual labor, as usual.
I rode away.
Interesting story, you didn't answer my question.
Quote from: plewis51 on June 22, 2010, 10:26:39 AM
I'm not sure where you get your train of thought Homer but it's fairly interesting.
Yeah, I got to agree.
After reading through the last ten posts and all the different (and interesting) outlooks, the one thing I come away with is this. . .
The next time I stop in the corner tavern after work for a cold beer to try and forget about the previous 8 hours of engineering buffoonery, it would be nothing short of amazing to unknowingly strike up a conversation with Homer.
(http://mysite.verizon.net/vze2wc9e/chugger.gif)
Hey, Just a thought. . .
O.K. then, back to PPE & ATGATT
Quiet, guys.
We're making the moderator angry.
They don't have to worry about gear - they have post count. If someone pulls out in front of them, they just use their mighty ban-hammer!
Wearing a kevlar helmet in an avatar, while baiting an argument about life-saving gear.... pssshhh....lead from the front....
But how does dressing in a day-glo elvis jump suit save your life?
This is boring.
I'm going to the movies.
Make sure you don't die on the way, I'd really miss you and you life saving tips.
lol'd irl
Quote from: romulux on June 22, 2010, 06:42:44 AM
Riding with full gear can mean the difference between a hospital visit and just getting back on the bike and riding home...
I think I can agree with that. I had an accident a couple of years ago, I made a mistake and locked up the front wheel (made another mistake) and went down. I was wearing my helmet, jacket, gloves, boots (work boots with steel toe), and jeans. I suffered a relatively minor abrasion on my side where the jacket rode up, but it saved the skin on my arms, shoulders, and back. The padding in the shoulders and elbows saved (in my opinion) my right arm.
Because I was wearing only regular jeans I suffered road rash across almost the entire face of my knee and I tore a roughly quarter-sized hole in my skin right around the top of my knee - it was deep enough you could see some bone. Luckily I didn't break anything and for the most part my Patellar tendon is fine (it does bother me at times), I have a pretty sizable scar and numbness due to nerve damage across the face of my knee.
I can't guarantee that had I been wearing proper riding pants that I would have been fine, but I'd be willing to bet I could have avoided over $3k in medical bills, being out of work for 3 weeks, and the aggravation of the whole thing had I spent a couple hundred bucks on some riding pants.
Everyone has the right to make whatever choice they want about what and how much gear they wear, I'm just relating my personal experience is all.
STOP THE MAYHEM :mad:
If you wear gear or not its your decision. Regardless here is some information:
(http://www.jonline.org/vstrom/__SAFETY__/ATGATT/motorcycle-man.jpg)
I thought that was a mountie at first glance...and second glance.
Australia Post have just this week showcased new safety gear for the "posties" who ride the Honda CT110s around city suburbs. White open-face helmet ( I think a Nolan) , bright yellow full jacket, bright yellow full pants, yellow pannier bags for the mail and a bright yellow flag on a whip pole at the back of the bike. Miss seeing that, if you dare!
Quote from: plewis51 on June 22, 2010, 06:14:10 PM
STOP THE MAYHEM :mad:
If you wear gear or not its your decision. Regardless here is some information:
(http://www.jonline.org/vstrom/__SAFETY__/ATGATT/motorcycle-man.jpg)
Seriously, who wears white Y front jocks these days.
I like to ride in nothing but my ass crack gets sand in it. But i can carry 6 doughnuts home
A picture speaks a thousand words...
Unbelievable.
This thread is still alive.
Nice!
(http://www.s13.com/MotivationalPosters/squids2.jpg)
Wish I was cool too ;)
Stay Safe Boys
Here's one I prepared earlier...
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1022/4734464452_246a18e249_b.jpg)
Michael
She'll be just fine. . .
It's everyone else around her that will wreck.
Nice addition to the ATGATT thread. :thumb:
LOL. Time to sticky this thread and post those pics of the ATGATT :)