So if we were to protest and get to the "presidential palace" in this country, where would we go and what would we say.
I'll start -
Go to all the big corporations - starting with Goldman sachs, but include BP, Haliburton, trans-ocean and well arrest any one who had a hand in the last 3 years of financial or oil spill or other debacles.
The best statement I have heard is wall street geniuses who took in several 100 million a year in bonuses said to the inquiry commission "we had no idea this was going to happen" and "we spent less than 1% of our time looking at these numbers". Woweee ... 100 million a year and you spend less than 1% looking at something that causes you to need to borrow 50-100 billion from the tax payer. Seriously, that is not even remotely excusable. We could hire a monkey and pay him peanuts and this would be the exact same result.
Anyone wants to add ... I would certainly like to add doctors/insurance scam artists, real estate hacks, sports teams, colleges and many more worthless ventures who freeload off the tax payers.
Cool.
Buddha.
Id protest on the mall about repealing obamacare, privatizing social security and medicare, cutting spending.
Here is my other pet peeve ...
They build stadiums and what not @ tax payers expense and say they will get this much revenue per year.
The thing is, the payments on the loan far outweigh the revenue, and by the time the stadium is paid off in 20-30 years the stadium needs to be rebuilt. Worse yet, the "revenue" they never say what that is. The "revenue" is the ridiculous parking and ticket fees they will charge the poor saps that come there to watch the game. On top of that they spend several 100 million on the players. Why dont they just shake down homeless people for spare change and skip this whole convoluted system of stealing from the poor citizen from both pockets.
Yea I like obama care but the big $ insurance companies will never let it stand.
Cutting spending is the whole TEA party motto. There are 3 ways to do it as it would have no effect any other way. Cut defense, cut medicare/medicaid, cut SS. Sadly all the rest put together is a drop in the bucket.
The TEA party clowns was to cut govt spending, so find the loudest of the idiots and cut off all the $ to their district first. Then start with the next and the next, etc. Lets see who's left. They all want to "go to heaven, but no one wants to die".
Cool.
Buddha.
Bring the armed forces home...take that money and invest in infrastructure rebuilding...that will create jobs and help kick start the economy...an economy only works if there is enough work for everyone to go out and "live the American dream"...your health care system kinda sucks down there, so I would wipe it clean and start fresh...ours isn't perfect either, but it works better than the American system...just ask TooGoofy if she would like to not have medical bills...
I'm not saying Canada is great and America sucks...definately not...but our economy has rebounded decently already...your government is writing checks that they can't honor...your national debt is frankly, quite scary...and our economies are very intertwined, so finding a way to help out the economy is in everyones best interest...
But I'm not in economics...I'm an electrician...no answers here...just armchair judgment... ;)
Later.
The less government handouts the better, americans have become reliant on them way to damn much. Our founding fathers knew what they were doing establishing limited government and maximum freedom.
some of these bonus' were included in contracts so to kill the bonuses, id have forced them into bankruptcy first. negating all contracts. then id strap on the kickass boots
Quote from: nikfleisch on February 02, 2011, 08:08:39 PM
The less government handouts the better, americans have become reliant on them way to damn much. Our founding fathers knew what they were doing establishing limited government and maximum freedom.
Oddly I only partially agree with this idea. Yes the founding fathers may have wanted to establish limited govt and maximum freedom. However a few things they may have missed or have changed since. Human beings are more hard wired to security than to freedom through most of their life. The one period we are most inclined to freedom to the point where its nearly equal to security is in our teens and early 20's. So having a very safe society with lots of safety nets is the better way to have a happier population. That almost by nature implies government intervention. However governments waste money, they spend it all in bureaucracy and very little gets to the people who need it. I dont have a solution, but I would say they should have in the first place implemented social security differently. They should cap the payments @ the input. The first person to receive SS essentially paid in $12 and received 29,000 or some such number. It should have been capped @ what was put in with an interest rate addition.
The thing is, there is no solution to this problem without cutting ss, Medic/air/are or military. Of course there is a solution. Print $. That would inderctly cause inflation, and really kill anyone who doesn't have income. AKA people dependent on the first 2.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on February 02, 2011, 08:14:34 PM
some of these bonus' were included in contracts so to kill the bonuses, id have forced them into bankruptcy first. negating all contracts. then id strap on the kickass boots
This would have been the way to do it. Oddly the one issue the 2 feuding fools (democraps and rape-a-buickans under Bush) agreed upon was to hand over the $ first ... Worthless pricks.
Yes it would have hurt the economy a bit more, after all it woould have taken a few more days for all these firms to fail. But the end result would be that we'd owe less $ to everyone else, we'd be paying less for everything, we'd have broken china's hold on the world markets, and best of all, we'd get a great chance to pump less $ in the economy and have it work a lot better after these $ sucking wall street morons all went under. There also will be no moral hazard.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: nikfleisch on February 02, 2011, 05:07:28 PM
Id protest on the mall about repealing obamacare, privatizing social security and medicare, cutting spending.
Quote from: nikfleisch on February 02, 2011, 08:08:39 PM
The less government handouts the better, americans have become reliant on them way to damn much. Our founding fathers knew what they were doing establishing limited government and maximum freedom.
Hope and pray you never get sick buddy! It is easy to say those things when you are young and healthy! Privatizing medical care and putting it in the hands of a few insurance corporations is what makes 85% of all Americans one major illness away from bankruptcy! Until, you walk a day in a truly sick persons shoes you would quickly recant those remarks. It took me three years while getting evaluated for a heart transplant to get one of those "handouts" you say that should be cut. Never mind that I paid into it right up until the day I was awarded the amazing amount of $1000 a month. BTW that's the large handout! Most only get $400-$600 a month to live. Tell me how far does that get you?
Mary
Quote from: Toogoofy317 on February 03, 2011, 11:16:28 PM
Quote from: nikfleisch on February 02, 2011, 05:07:28 PM
Id protest on the mall about repealing obamacare, privatizing social security and medicare, cutting spending.
Quote from: nikfleisch on February 02, 2011, 08:08:39 PM
The less government handouts the better, americans have become reliant on them way to damn much. Our founding fathers knew what they were doing establishing limited government and maximum freedom.
Hope and pray you never get sick buddy! It is easy to say those things when you are young and healthy! Privatizing medical care and putting it in the hands of a few insurance corporations is what makes 85% of all Americans one major illness away from bankruptcy! Until, you walk a day in a truly sick persons shoes you would quickly recant those remarks. It took me three years while getting evaluated for a heart transplant to get one of those "handouts" you say that should be cut. Never mind that I paid into it right up until the day I was awarded the amazing amount of $1000 a month. BTW that's the large handout! Most only get $400-$600 a month to live. Tell me how far does that get you?
Mary
mary i do agree with this. alough im not looking for socialised medicine. this govt couldnt manage a mcdonalds the way they blow money. then and now. that being said. im clsing in on a year since i applied. odds are ill be in bankruptcy again. over med issues.. when i get approved, ill be in teh 600 dollar pool you referred to. but im looking for the insurance more than anything.
Don't get your hopes to high on the insurance either! I have a $35 co-pay for each of my 11 doctors. So, far this week I've seen the GP twice, GI, Cardiologist,ortho, and have to go back to GP tomorrow! That's $280 this week :woohoo: Rent is $600. So, I got $120 left for this month! Oh wait, it's the 3rd there's still 25 more days to this month! Haven't even bought my meds yet!
Mary
Quote from: Toogoofy317 on February 04, 2011, 12:12:12 AM
Don't get your hopes to high on the insurance either! I have a $35 co-pay for each of my 11 doctors. So, far this week I've seen the GP twice, GI, Cardiologist,ortho, and have to go back to GP tomorrow! That's $280 this week :woohoo: Rent is $600. So, I got $120 left for this month! Oh wait, it's the 3rd there's still 25 more days to this month! Haven't even bought my meds yet!
Mary
yeah i know. but here. its medicaid aka tenncare. which governor. ( outgoing bastard) when i had it, doc copays were 15. meds 5. i was spending 180/mo in fuel alone for woundcare, which ive had to stop. all sorts of unpleasant shaZam!. BUT way i look at it, insurance may not be great, BUT would be better than what ive got now. ( cant get anythign lol)
I like the idea of reducing the military. It's there to protect our BORDERS; not our corporation's interests. Everybody come home. We'll work together on getting off foreign oil; and the entire middle east can go back to being an empty desert.
The biggest medical improvement we will ever see is price discovery. I want to see a price list @ any doctor. That is that. That in an instant will take care of all deficits. In reality that will eventually eliminate medical insurance and eventually medicare/aid.
Seriously - it cannot be cheaper to get on a plane and run 38 hours to india and get the surgery done, and spend 3 weeks healing and get back on the plane run 38 hours ... and still be cheaper than if you had insurance and did that same thing in the US. Actually I had a root canal 5 years ago. It would have been a break even with a trip to india. Absolutely nothing is cutting edge in a root canal. Been that way for 40 years. I cannot see why 99% of the surgeries in teh US need to cost 1/100th of what they do ... worse yet, the insurance companies pay the doctors 1/10th of the price off the street. That oughta be illegal. You dont see @ mcdonalds prices for different people based on what code word they tell you. Like walk in there and say "cigna" and a big mac is 30 bucks. Say "medicare" and its 50. That I dont see as anything but racketeering.
Mary - sorry its not going to help you 1 bit but india is a great place to get most surgeries etc done. The best we can hope for is - a price list @ every doctor/hospital and they wont charge different prices to any one.
Cool.
Buddha.
Marry a Canadian guy and emigrate...sorry, I'm taken... :icon_mrgreen:...what happens if you need surgery to survive but can't afford it...do you just have to die? Doesn't sound like your government cares too much...even when we had insurance premiums to pay, the poor and elderly were exempt...maybe I will think twice about moving down there...longer riding season doesn't sound worth it...besides, we can sled in the off season...
Later.
Quote from: madjak30 on February 04, 2011, 09:01:34 AM
...what happens if you need surgery to survive but can't afford it...do you just have to die? Doesn't sound like your government cares too much...
:icon_rolleyes:
The worse thing is, they would rather address your symptoms and ignore the cause, that way you have to keep paying up. Oddly medicare/aid works that same way ... :cookoo:
Cool.
Buddha.
Yeah, that kinda pissed me off this week. I have had hypoglycemia and the Crohn's issue and so I asked my PCP if I could get a referral to see a nutritionist. She said insurance would not cover it until I was diagnosed with full blown diabetes! Ok so instead of paying the $100 for me to get my diet straightned out and prevent me from getting the diabetes they'd rather pay to treat the diabetes which once you got it it is not cheap to treat!
Mary
Quote from: Toogoofy317 on February 04, 2011, 08:46:37 PM
Yeah, that kinda pissed me off this week. I have had hypoglycemia and the Crohn's issue and so I asked my PCP if I could get a referral to see a nutritionist. She said insurance would not cover it until I was diagnosed with full blown diabetes! Ok so instead of paying the $100 for me to get my diet straightned out and prevent me from getting the diabetes they'd rather pay to treat the diabetes which once you got it it is not cheap to treat!
Mary
:cookoo:
the matter of that fact is that with social security its just government run redistrubution of the wealth, Im not saying I dont help the poor or want to by why the hell should i be madated to pay taxes when part of them go towards the poor who get all their taxes back! Most people on ss are poorer and get their taxes back, they pay in waaaay less than they get out. Their getting a free ride. Our founding fathers as I believe that americans should be granted equal oppurtunity to succeed, but not a guarantee of the same amount of success. As medicare goes I understand that our system is't fool proof but honestly, what isnt? Capitalism has advanced the medical industry time and time again, government run health care is just bullshit if you ask me, why the hell should i get taxed because I choose not to buy it?!?!?! If you ask me leave it to the private sector as to what the prices should be, look at anything not government regulated highly, prices slowly decreased due to the american strive for excellence, which the government determing prices for doctors and medical institutions they will lose the strive and determination to become the best because the only incentive they will have is knowing they did a good job, and lets face it that wont drive every common man to do better. I understand that some cannot afford the highly expensive but medicare should be an option, I should have the option if at the age of 16 when im working stocking shelves at my loal grocery store if i want to save for my future, By mandating this the government is pretty much saying I cant do it for myself, that they know better than I do, and therefore they'll force me to save, and in doing so also pay for others. Face it government run social programs will result in nothing but self destruction for america.
It's my understanding that social security didn't start out as government redistribution of wealth. It was originally in it's own trust fund so to speak. Then somewhere along the line the money was borrowed by the government and put into the general fund to be used for whatever and the government promised to pay it out of their pocket. (or ours depending on your perspective. Had it been left alone it its own fund, I don't think it would be in as much trouble as it is today. Of course, that's just my opinion.
Well no matter how it started its current state is a joke.
Well, sir what would you do to change it? It seems everyone is very quick to knock the gov't we have yet no one really gives any viable alternatives.
I do believe that we could save millions to billions of dollars each year if we made preventative healthcare mandatory and free. As it is now people don't get medical treatment until they have done irreparable damage to their bodies and then it costs millions of dollars to care for a "chronic" condition that if the person had the opportunity to see a doc on a yearly basis that it could have been avoided all together.
mary
Social security should be gone, legislation passed against ever allowing it again. I think churches need to be the main source of help for poorer families, churches and other nonprofit organizations have the capabilites to monitor, help and encorouge ina way the the governemtn cant and never will be able to do. Healthcare is a whole different story I'd need to continue with research to come to a possible conclusion but I know all of my research thus far has told me that government run healthcare is not the answer.
Careful man, you're openning a can-O-worms there... :dunno_white:
Later.
Churches really, while I love my church and they have helped me in so many ways that is for sure not the answer. First, there is this wonderful clause of seperation of church and state. Secondly, who will monitor their doings and which churchs will be allowed to distribute funds. What if someone is Atheist they don't deserve help too?
What is your beef with Social Security? You put the money in there its not like your getting the "free" ride you describe. If we went to private insurances like W. proposed can you imagine what would happen to those that were retiring in 2008. Yeah, you would have put into an account for 40 years and find out some Capitalistic pig blew all of your hard earned money on high risk hedge funds and the such that got us in this financial mess in the beginning.
I'm not saying that socialism is the answer but Capitalism sure isn't the answer for healthcare either. I do believe that it should be mandatory for everyone to carry health insurance because it tends to be those that have no insurance that tend to run up bills that and those who are not here legally. When everyone has insurance they can then get the smaller health problems taken care of at a doctor's office rather than an ED. When I was an EMT I would look out into the waiting room and see that 90% of those people weren't there because they had an "Emergency" they were there because they didn't have insurance and knew they had to be treated.
There are no easy answers but you have to include the needs of the whole country when deciding on such things.
Mary
thats not america, requiring things of americans, and just becuase you aren athiest doesn't meant they don't get help, Im christian, whether or not a homeless person is has no effect on the amount I would help them..........
Quote from: Toogoofy317 on February 04, 2011, 08:46:37 PM
Yeah, that kinda pissed me off this week. I have had hypoglycemia and the Crohn's issue and so I asked my PCP if I could get a referral to see a nutritionist. She said insurance would not cover it until I was diagnosed with full blown diabetes! Ok so instead of paying the $100 for me to get my diet straightned out and prevent me from getting the diabetes they'd rather pay to treat the diabetes which once you got it it is not cheap to treat!
Mary
before the liberal governor kicked me off of medicaid, i had same issue mary. i replied to them, fine, ill just go to ER. ( i needed insulin needles, but am allowed 1 doc visit per mo. after a week of going to ER twice per day, for an injection, they reconsidered
Quote from: nikfleisch on February 04, 2011, 10:10:09 PM
thats not america, requiring things of americans, and just becuase you aren athiest doesn't meant they don't get help, Im christian, whether or not a homeless person is has no effect on the amount I would help them..........
That is you sir not how the rest of the world operates. I mean take that Baptist church that goes to soldiers funerals singing "God hates America" and "Fags deserve AIDS" according to U.S tax codes they are just as much of a "church" as the church I go to First Baptist Church of Kissimmee. I do believe that a "church" model is quite acceptable my church for example. We run a free clinic (which I volunteer at) it is open two times a week we also serve one meal a day. The clinic saved my life when I lost my health insurance because they got me the cardiac meds that I could not live with out.
I believe that we can take that model along with mandatory insurance and preventative care and create something viable that will help the whole country not just the very poor or the very rich.
Mary
Quote from: Toogoofy317 on February 04, 2011, 09:39:37 PM
Well, sir what would you do to change it? It seems everyone is very quick to knock the gov't we have yet no one really gives any viable alternatives.
I do believe that we could save millions to billions of dollars each year if we made preventative healthcare mandatory and free. As it is now people don't get medical treatment until they have done irreparable damage to their bodies and then it costs millions of dollars to care for a "chronic" condition that if the person had the opportunity to see a doc on a yearly basis that it could have been avoided all together.
mary
agreed. odds are ill be dead in a years time. almost happened twice this year. +1 on preventative doc type stuff. can do wonders. i just wish it were available long ago
Have trust in the Lord Yama. When it is your time to go then it is your time. But, I got a feeling you and I have bigger things to do which is why God is preparing us through these trials.
You know I am always praying for you :thumb:
Mary
Quote from: Toogoofy317 on February 04, 2011, 10:41:31 PM
Have trust in the Lord Yama. When it is your time to go then it is your time. But, I got a feeling you and I have bigger things to do which is why God is preparing us through these trials.
You know I am always praying for you :thumb:
Mary
i know. i just get aggrivated tho. i cannot get help for nothing. no mass transit. no way to get around. except via bicycle. i cant ride the race bike anymore due to pain, and shortness of breath. doc called other day, somethign about spots on chest xray. im like okay WTF. i had htis xray 5 weeks ago FIVE WEEKS. ehh time for vitamins or whatever else i can clear this up with. cant sleep breathign thru nose. not enough air. i breathe thru mouth, i wake up dry as sahara desert lol. anyhoo, i think requiring those to buy insurance. i dont like htei idea. i DO HOWEVER think, need ot go back to federal medicaid programme. my state under a liberal gov. cut me, and many many thousands more off of it, and THEN spent several million dollars for a reception room at the mansion. WTF. priorities dude. i cannot work hardly anymore. i got my net service back up, so if i could sell somethign online i would have hte ability to do so. and so far so good. but other than that, am broke lol
Capitalism...The engine that has powered medical breakthroughs which have exponentially increased our standard of living.
How many medical advances have come out of Burma (Myanmar) lately? Those of you waiting for a cure to cancer from Laos any time soon better not hold your breath.
Quote from: XealotX on February 05, 2011, 11:40:51 AM
Capitalism...The engine that has powered medical breakthroughs which have exponentially increased our standard of living.
How many medical advances have come out of Burma (Myanmar) lately? Those of you waiting for a cure to cancer from Laos any time soon better not hold your breath.
OTOH,
LOTS of medical advances have come from Europe, where they have universal health care and a much bigger social welfare net than we do.
Capitalism is a great system for those who inherit lots of money, especially when they are able to buy legislators and indeed whole parties. It allows them to keep their money and gradually get ours as well. Observable fact.
Quote from: trumpetguy on February 05, 2011, 02:43:41 PM
OTOH, LOTS of medical advances have come from Europe, where they have universal health care and a much bigger social welfare net than we do.
Capitalism is a great system for those who inherit lots of money, especially when they are able to buy legislators and indeed whole parties. It allows them to keep their money and gradually get ours as well. Observable fact.
True, lots of medical advances have come from Europe in the last 100 years...compared to Myanmar or Laos. It is still a
fraction of what the US has produced.
Your comments on Capitalism translate just as easily to Socialism. Observable fact.
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."--Margaret Thatcher
Yeah, its great that America has created all of these medical miracles but typically those with money and insurance are the ones that benefit. I mean take a look at Yama's leg over in the Tard Farm. In a country like the good 'ole US of A that atrocity should not happen. One medication for my Crohn's disease is about $2,000 for one infusion. My Ranexa about $400 for a half month supply. The Duragesic patch another $350. The Multaq for my arrythmias $4.50 per pill!
Of course there are probably some out there that think if we can't afford the medication then we don't deserve to live survival of the fitest eh? But, if that were the case we would have to say good bye to Stephen Hawking right? I mean what does he have to contribute to our society. All he has is the use of a part of one finger.
Mary
TG, i can agree @ some point about europe. BUT i will have to input this, ive considered socialism for a brief bit. i am open minded as it were. now. those with " universal healthcare. " it is NOT free. tax rates?, id be open to this idea IF this govt didnt waste money like it currently does, did, and WILL do. if we could manage OUR money wiselymight be a viable alternative. BUT until then i dont think so. NOW as far as my leg/s go, it IS getting worse. BUT until i go in on deaths doorstep, teh ER will NOT do anything. ive tried 4 times over past year. insurance would have helped yes. BUT my liberal governor. ( out now thank GOD) cut myself, and many many hundreds of thousands of ppl, OFF of our medicaid system, AND decided in his infinite wisdom, that the governors mansion needs a party room at several million dollars , cut off covertn enrollment in 09 due to budget. ever see green pus on a leg wound?,and urine that has more head ( bubbles) on it than guinness stout @ room temp. to me it dont look good, but hell to local ER docs? they dont seem to give a f%$k. they dont even check the damned thing. i keep it as clean as possible. but now my face is swelling too lol. i look like the pillsbury doughboy with bill clintons face. before we try an implement other programs, we NEED to manage our money carefully. whether is uneccesary wars as you claim, ( ill respect your points of view TG) or other expenditures, we need to rein in our spending and watch CAREFULLY where our money goes OUT . regarding costs. those countries with cheap meds?, the US pays for the R&D. my insulin is @ 63 per bottle. times 2/mo. im running on donations. i was planning on birthday money to go see doctor. BUT no birthday money the 16th of jan so no go. id support obamacare, BUT only if this country reined in its out of control spending FIRST. as in not spending money that did NOT need to be spent
XealotX, I think the country that has made most advances in medicine in the last fifty years is Cuba. I'm not advocating Cuban style govt but when Castro first came to power his population was decimated by an epidemic. He said "We can't have a revolution without people" and made medicine an absolute priority, some of the best research on the planet is done there.
This does not illustrate that socialism or a dictatorship is best but it does illustrate what you can do if you have overiding national WILL, like China who developed the bomb and space travel whilst still a "third-word" country.
The problem with "western" medical research is that no drug company wants to produce a cure for anything, bad for business, the ideal drug for them is one you have to take every day for the rest of your life to "control" a condition.
I take you point though and await the next big medical breakthrough from south east Asia with bated breath! cough! choke!
Quote from: Cal Price on February 06, 2011, 04:29:39 AM
XealotX, I think the country that has made most advances in medicine in the last fifty years is Cuba. I'm not advocating Cuban style govt but when Castro first came to power his population was decimated by an epidemic. He said "We can't have a revolution without people" and made medicine an absolute priority, some of the best research on the planet is done there.
This does not illustrate that socialism or a dictatorship is best but it does illustrate what you can do if you have overiding national WILL, like China who developed the bomb and space travel whilst still a "third-word" country.
The problem with "western" medical research is that no drug company wants to produce a cure for anything, bad for business, the ideal drug for them is one you have to take every day for the rest of your life to "control" a condition.
I take you point though and await the next big medical breakthrough from south east Asia with bated breath! cough! choke!
I already know what that is. its a cure for lead poisoning :technical:
For the record...I'm not picking on Southeast Asian countries in particular...just socialist and communist countries in general. There are plenty of other countries to choose from...or California... :icon_razz:
Quote from: Toogoofy317 on February 06, 2011, 12:10:54 AM
Yeah, its great that America has created all of these medical miracles but typically those with money and insurance are the ones that benefit. I mean take a look at Yama's leg over in the Tard Farm. In a country like the good 'ole US of A that atrocity should not happen. One medication for my Crohn's disease is about $2,000 for one infusion. My Ranexa about $400 for a half month supply. The Duragesic patch another $350. The Multaq for my arrythmias $4.50 per pill!
Of course there are probably some out there that think if we can't afford the medication then we don't deserve to live survival of the fitest eh? But, if that were the case we would have to say good bye to Stephen Hawking right? I mean what does he have to contribute to our society. All he has is the use of a part of one finger.
Mary
go many more pics of the issues in leg photoged and sent to my email. wont post here due to gnarliness of it ( until i can edit some of it away
I find it odd (and offensive) that most of those who think US government spending is out of control refuse to discuss the elephant in the room. If you remove Social Security and Medicare from our budget (they're supposed to be trust fund items), we spend more than 50% on the military -- directly or indirectly. We spend more on military than the next FIFTEEN countries COMBINED. We spend that way because the corporations who buy our legislature want it that way.
You want to cut spending? Let's start with where we are overspending in an absolutely ridiculous way. Bring our troops home from Iraq and Afghanistan now, and from Europe and Asia. Defend our borders like the constitution says. Our spending problems will go away in a hurry.
Tell that to the tea party and all the other fools who think they can cut the defishit by cutting special education programs (like bright beginings in NC) which totally helped my son who has autism, and helped him not be a child who needs a lot of help. Yea a whole 4-5 million will be saved. OK so we're looking at 15 trillion. So we kill bright beginings 3 million times we should be good.
That is one reason why I consider the tea party a toothless snake. It looks like a snake, but once it tries to bite any one it will be obvious its just an oversized caterpillar.
I am a conservative, and sadly none of the 2 parties is conservative. Do I hate the liberals who say they are not conservatives more, or the conservatives who are not conservative more ... the latter cos they are liars. The Tea party is the worst of the worst.
Cool.
Buddha.
It really does upset me to hear them talk about needing to cut the spending. Mainly because one of the first things they talk about cutting is education funding, and then in the same breathe turn around and say that our education is lacking in America and is so far behind everyone else in the world. WTF?
In a twisted way I agree ... you see there should be no federal loan BS, no grants of any kind, no nothing, heck schools shouldn't even be run by govt. There should be a board of education, they should do EOG testing every year or other year, but they should fund schools via fees from students. The end result will be ... a proper education system where the good survive and the bad die.
Hospitals - same thing.
Colleges - same thing.
See college costs are rising ... and they are rising cos colleges charge a lot of $ for worthless crap cos they got a captive customer base, one that is young, impressionable and has credit ... Copy the asian system. Every thing is private, everything is run to make a profit, however if the value doesn't get to the consumer the profit quickly turns into a loss and it quickly unravels. Of course they also dont build new crap every other year and take on huge debt to finance, and they dont put in millions into sports and take that from the fees, they also dont have huge unweildy bureaucracies sucking the value out of everything.
Cool.
Buddha.
god you are an idiot, 99 percent of people in the tea party agree that defense needs to be cut, and fyi, YOU idiot in 2010 defence accounted for a mere 19% compared to the whopping
Social Security: 23%
Medicare: 12%
Medicaid: 7%
so before you continue to talk, know what the hell you're talking about.
Oh Lord, what has the world come to now that I'm about to defend The Buddha...
Idiot is a bit much. The Buddha calling himself a conservative is certainly a stretch but there is no need sink to name calling. Also, you'll have to post a link to the poll siting 99% of self proclaimed tea party members being for defense cuts. I suspect we'll be waiting on that link for some time.
Here is a link defending my numbers (read the explanation and RE-read my post):
http://www.warresisters.org/pages/piechart.htm (http://www.warresisters.org/pages/piechart.htm)
OVER 50% of non-trust fund spending is on military (current or past military and debt related to military spending AND hidden military spending channeled through other budgets). Read and learn.
Another statistic -- we spend SEVEN times as much as the next most militaristic nation (China).
I anxiously anticipate a link defending your bogus numbers about the (non-existent) tea party, Nikfleisch. (insert sound of crickets here)
I apoiligize I must have missed the part about taking out medicare and social security, but even if we still do it's not over 50 percent if its only 19% and you take out the 33% as of 2006 for social programs thats not over 50. That charts statistics are wrong, But i do agree is needs to be cut, the whole damn government needs to be cut, I consider myself a conservative libertarian.
Quote from: trumpetguy on February 08, 2011, 08:56:06 PM
Here is a link defending my numbers (read the explanation and RE-read my post):
http://www.warresisters.org/pages/piechart.htm (http://www.warresisters.org/pages/piechart.htm)
OVER 50% of non-trust fund spending is on military (current or past military and debt related to military spending AND hidden military spending channeled through other budgets). Read and learn.
Another statistic -- we spend SEVEN times as much as the next most militaristic nation (China).
I anxiously anticipate a link defending your bogus numbers about the (non-existent) tea party, Nikfleisch. (insert sound of crickets here)
Fair enough ill see the mil cutting, we tried this before, but we failed in 1 apsect. ask those that had to go on requisition missions about what was missing. we have enough parts on standby that IF needed somewhere, they are avail. tehn cut budget , then also unemployment will skyrocket., so well have to make allowances for that. to me, the tea pary ORIGINALLY. was against govt waste. where theyve gone since, PLEASE let me know. left wastes, right wastes, centre wastes. sadly we all do. we ALL need ot waste as little as possible, then wed NOT have any problems whatsoever. but nobody seems to get this.. clean out teh UNNECCESSARY pork barrel spending, and wed have alot of this taken care of. notice i didnt say KILL it OFF. i said clean up/out the UNNECCESARY
If I am not fiscally conservative I dont know who else is - I dont know any one else who is. Seriously, the only debt I ever have incurred - ever - OK not ever, but outside of the 94-98 time frame when I had a car loan, is my house. I took a 15 yr, and we're 8 yrs in, and it would be paid off in another 2.
I also dont make revolving payments on anything (especially credit cards) and never have been hit with any fees on anything, late payments or anything.
OK tightwad - fine and proud of it. However I rarely am penny wise, pound foolish.
K so nikfleisch - cutting military is the third rail of politics for a democrat, and for a republican (which the tea party is full of) its suicide. And I know of not 1 situation where I have heard of anything remotely like it from any tea partier. I've heard it from Ron Paul but he's not tea party - yet. Rand Paul is, but Ron Paul isn't is he ? If he is, finally I would respect the tea party for something.
The 4 things you mentioned in your numbers total 60% right now and that doesn't even include retiring baby boomers and returning veterans. That number would easily shoot up to 90% in a few years. No one has any intention of stopping or even slowing it down. The other 10% is what goes to schools etc which are likely to keep the future of the rest of the country from going down the crapper. The tea party/republicans want to cut transit projects, education and govt services for poor etc. That put together will not turn any real numbers into the black for now, and will increase the outflow in future.
Cool.
Buddha.
One other thing to consider -
Of all the major economies in the world that are not lucky enough to have huge valuable resource exports just about the least subsidised is the US. Ok well, maybe not, it may be India but india is still a 3rd world country where there is serious corruption which in turn indirectly is a subsidy to the industry which has bought politicians. I'd say the US is the country which has the smallest subsidy to industry and all of our competetion (germany, england, france, china, japan etc) all heavily subsidize theirs. I dont even think shrinking that footprint is wise. The govt should not be made smaller, it likely needs to be made smarter. It needs provide better subsidies, kill the un productive ones and provide a better safety net.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: The Buddha on February 09, 2011, 07:36:27 AM
I dont even think shrinking that footprint is wise. The govt should not be made smaller, it likely needs to be made smarter. It needs provide better subsidies, kill the un productive ones and provide a better safety net.
Cool.
Buddha.
Okay, now that is stating the obvious... ;)...but who is going to be the one to judge which are unproductive and what is a better subsidy...each elected official has their own agenda on what is needed and what can be cut...
You have to remember, Buddha, if everyone was as fiscally responsible as you our whole economy would implode...our economy is based on consuming product...debt servicing is what keeps us afloat...if we went back to the 40's and 50's mentality of "if you don't have the cash, you don't get it" spending would all but stop...just the essentials would be continued...groceries, fuel, utilities, etc...new car sales would stop, bikes would dissapear from North America (only for the rich...they are toys after all)...
But no fear!! I am doing my part...net worth is still positive, but just barely...so government spending is also a good thing, but like you said, they just need to get smarter with the money...just not sure who is providing the "smarter" part!!
Later.
Ya, you're right. What works for individuals does the opposite for the economy as a whole.
Cool.
Buddha.
Oh, also remember our country's debt is held by individuals, both foreign and domestic.
The right way to have stimulated the economy would have been to let AIG, Goldman Sachs, and any one else who needed a bail out fail. Gone, bankruptcy. Chapter 7, 11, 13, 22, whatever - dead.
Then buy their assets @ fire sale prices and resurrect only the sensible aspects of the business.
Instead of the bailout adding 2-3 trillion to the debt, they would have taken 2-3 trillion off and had more effective use of the 2-3 trillion spent.
Instead they preferred to give the $ to goldman sachs via the AIG bail out, and ended up with no benifit and a 2 trillion price tag.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: trumpetguy on February 08, 2011, 07:44:21 AM
I find it odd (and offensive) that most of those who think US government spending is out of control refuse to discuss the elephant in the room. If you remove Social Security and Medicare from our budget (they're supposed to be trust fund items), we spend more than 50% on the military -- directly or indirectly. We spend more on military than the next FIFTEEN countries COMBINED. We spend that way because the corporations who buy our legislature want it that way.
You want to cut spending? Let's start with where we are overspending in an absolutely ridiculous way. Bring our troops home from Iraq and Afghanistan now, and from Europe and Asia. Defend our borders like the constitution says. Our spending problems will go away in a hurry.
As well as the bogus earmarks on all bills that would cut spending as well tg ;)
Well the egypt protests now make me sad. It succeded, and in 18 days, if it had been going on for longer and they gathered steam, there is some chance it may occour here.
Only thing is what would we unite against. Even on gstwin we cant get any number of people to agree on much. Oh yea except that the crap pockets suck, and suzuki should have made a more powerful GS (I'm not so sure about that second one).
1/2 the people would want the new health care law, 1/2 would want it to go away.
Taxes will be universally hated, however atleast some people work for the govt. So they could lose their job, and they would say they do an important job. Cant disagree with that. I cant see taxes going away either, it will make for a disaster ... imagine building your own roads and running water and electricity yourself to your house.
1/2 the people would want illegal immigration reform. The other 1/2 wants illegals to leave cos they committed a crime by sneaking in.
On wall street and other ceo's making out like bandits - well the horse has bolted and no sense protesting against them besides they are all in 100 different cities.
Oh yea, Michelle Bachman is hottt hot. Move over Sarah Palin, we have a better rhetoric spewing bobble head on the scene. Maybe you can be her VP running mate.
Cool.
Buddha.
Hmmmm...all politics aside...
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_b3GHoGMBNpY/SwIeZYkpakI/AAAAAAAAEuM/mdMYT3uprbQ/s1600/Michele+Bachmann+For+President+In+2012.jpg)
≠
(http://static.thehollywoodgossip.com/images/gallery/palin-in-runners-world.jpg)
There are plenty of hot women out there with IQs higher than a can of tomato soup.
Quote from: trumpetguy on February 12, 2011, 08:19:29 AM
There are plenty of hot women out there with IQs higher than a can of tomato soup.
and to beat all, many are non liberals as well . idk. i dont think id want a woman, that some would consider hot. main reason is because id be a fightign man. ehh. i think ill remain celibate til the day i die anyways. tired of getting lied to. and with health problems getting more dominant in my life recently. ( other day worst lol :(. ) ill just stay single :angel:
trumpetguy - that's that's -----SOUPISM! ---- shame on you.
Innocent cans of soup all over this planet are getting their noodles in a twist trying to figure out where they went wrong and what they did to deserve such insult.
Quote from: Cal Price on February 13, 2011, 05:22:51 PM
trumpetguy - that's that's -----SOUPISM! ---- shame on you.
Innocent cans of soup all over this planet are getting their noodles in a twist trying to figure out where they went wrong and what they did to deserve such insult.
LOL. But I do hope the GOP runs Palin in 2012. I really really do. It would be like the rugby game in Monty Python's "The Meaning of Life," and it would be hilarious to watch.
Quote from: trumpetguy on February 13, 2011, 06:15:49 PM
Quote from: Cal Price on February 13, 2011, 05:22:51 PM
trumpetguy - that's that's -----SOUPISM! ---- shame on you.
Innocent cans of soup all over this planet are getting their noodles in a twist trying to figure out where they went wrong and what they did to deserve such insult.
LOL. But I do hope the GOP runs Palin in 2012. I really really do. It would be like the rugby game in Monty Python's "The Meaning of Life," and it would be hilarious to watch.
ehh they found nothign against her last time. i do hope both sides get serious this time around. last tiem was comedic :cookoo:
Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on February 13, 2011, 08:41:07 PM
ehh they found nothign against her last time. i do hope both sides get serious this time around. last tiem was comedic :cookoo:
It's not about finding something against her, it's about whether she's qualified to be President. She clearly is not. If she won, she'd probably quit if she could make more money selling books and going on TV (like she did as Governor of Alaska).
Quote from: trumpetguy on February 13, 2011, 10:56:41 PM
Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on February 13, 2011, 08:41:07 PM
ehh they found nothign against her last time. i do hope both sides get serious this time around. last tiem was comedic :cookoo:
It's not about finding something against her, it's about whether she's qualified to be President. She clearly is not. If she won, she'd probably quit if she could make more money selling books and going on TV (like she did as Governor of Alaska).
i could say our current pres. isnt qualified either. thats a matter of opinion. tbh the biatch scares me. id rather have someone else on the non liberal side. anyone but her. qualified? idk maybe, but i dont trust her. for some reason
I hope that Palin runs as well. She would probably drag the republican party down with her. And man think of the jokes Tina Fey is going to unleash. Just think of the jokes man. Dear god, let her run. Or atleast let her pop up everywhere ... I just dont want to lose my Tina Fey fix.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: The Buddha on February 14, 2011, 06:57:45 AM
I hope that Palin runs as well. She would probably drag the republican party down with her. And man think of the jokes Tina Fey is going to unleash. Just think of the jokes man. Dear god, let her run. Or atleast let her pop up everywhere ... I just dont want to lose my Tina Fey fix.
Cool.
Buddha.
If palin had to f%$k anythign up, have her run as an indi. she does scare me, id say she might be qualified, as much as obama is anyways. or as jimmy carter was, etc. but id rather see someone else 1 in teh white house. and as well on the gop ticket etc
Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on February 13, 2011, 11:10:59 PM
i could say our current pres. isnt qualified either...
Isn't qualified?? I've voted for dog catchers in local elections that were better qualified. I generally vote libertarian so my candidates never win major elections...but they do win quite a few local ones...
Quote from: XealotX on February 14, 2011, 07:05:33 PM
Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on February 13, 2011, 11:10:59 PM
i could say our current pres. isnt qualified either...
Isn't qualified?? I've voted for dog catchers in local elections that were better qualified. I generally vote libertarian so my candidates never win major elections...but they do win quite a few local ones...
agreed. i can trust our local dog catcher as well. a person not afraid to get his or her hands dirty
OK so what do you expect as "qualifications" for a president.
I'd make the case where Obama started out poor with a single parent, worked as a community organiser (and John McCain's "I dont even know what a community organiser is" was right up there with the "drill baby drill" and the "financial system is fine" and that whole Joe the plumber schpeel - aka out of touch with reality) and eventually made it to the WH. As in ... he was from the people. Compare that to say GW Bush - who was born rich and his previous job had been to manage a baseball team. Are there smarter people, sure yes, however that is not the point. The point is he/she should be one of the common folk.
Cool.
Buddha.
Obama is a Harvard educated man. He was elected to the state legislature in one of the most populous states in the union. He was elected U.S. Senator from one of the most populous states in the union. He is a moderate politician who has successfully negotiated major bills which benefit the middle class. He is not liberal by any stretch of the imagination.
Qualified to me means intelligent, honest, well-educated, and able to work with people. It is also necessary that they deal in reality, not in fantasy. Neither Bush nor Palin nor McCain can claim more than 2 of those five.
Quote from: trumpetguy on February 15, 2011, 03:34:28 PM
Obama is a Harvard educated man. He was elected to the state legislature in one of the most populous states in the union. He was elected U.S. Senator from one of the most populous states in the union. He is a moderate politician who has successfully negotiated major bills which benefit the middle class. He is not liberal by any stretch of the imagination.
Qualified to me means intelligent, honest, well-educated, and able to work with people. It is also necessary that they deal in reality, not in fantasy. Neither Bush nor Palin nor McCain can claim more than 2 of those five.
i knew youd be back, his volting record while in senate he was hardly ever there. one could say he was campaigning fro president. thats fine, BUT as a senator, your obligation is to serve teh consituents first. is it not?
Well yes true. However the people who put you there - as in the people who voted for you - not the ones who didn't, if you were to ask them would you like me to run for president, my chances seem good, the work you need me to perform will be carried out by the staff and advisers I have on hand who work for you in reality, and if I do get elected president, I'd put in a word for someone with similar ideals to the guv'ner (in this case sadly Rod Blagoyaveich) ...
That question is what the committee is supposed to do. Not sure how exactly they do it, but a committee to study etc is supposed to do somethign like that.
Cool.
Buddha.
You guys seem to think the President "runs" the country...WRONG...yes, he puts the final stamp of approval on each decision...but in reality it is his advisors and others that you don't vote for directly...he is just the figure head for the party that he represents...you are voting in the whole team, not just the president...I'm all for a pretty face to look at while listening to speaches that are prepared by said advisors...
My two cents...
Later.
Quote from: madjak30 on February 16, 2011, 11:46:08 AM
You guys seem to think the President "runs" the country...WRONG...yes, he puts the final stamp of approval on each decision...but in reality it is his advisors and others that you don't vote for directly...he is just the figure head for the party that he represents...you are voting in the whole team, not just the president...I'm all for a pretty face to look at while listening to speaches that are prepared by said advisors...
My two cents...
Later.
What the heck does a Canuck know about the Presidency? (...Probably a lot more than I know about the Canadian House of Commons... :laugh: :laugh: )
But teh aforementioned beaverhunter, has it spot on :bowdown: :bowdown:
Quote from: XealotX on February 16, 2011, 06:42:41 PM
What the heck does a Canuck know about the Presidency? (...Probably a lot more than I know about the Canadian House of Commons... :laugh: :laugh: )
What? We have a house? I thought it was the big igloo with the fire pit... :icon_twisted:
Later.
Quote from: madjak30 on February 16, 2011, 09:46:47 PM
Quote from: XealotX on February 16, 2011, 06:42:41 PM
What the heck does a Canuck know about the Presidency? (...Probably a lot more than I know about the Canadian House of Commons... :laugh: :laugh: )
What? We have a house? I thought it was the big igloo with the fire pit... :icon_twisted:
Later.
full of beaver , dont forget
Yep, the whole team, which is why when Bush was president Cheney ran the country.
Anyway I like it that many states including NC have struck down the "Must have insurance" provision.
That was put in the thing by the insurance lobby. Perfect.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on February 17, 2011, 12:19:59 AM
Quote from: madjak30 on February 16, 2011, 09:46:47 PM
Quote from: XealotX on February 16, 2011, 06:42:41 PM
What the heck does a Canuck know about the Presidency? (...Probably a lot more than I know about the Canadian House of Commons... :laugh: :laugh: )
What? We have a house? I thought it was the big igloo with the fire pit... :icon_twisted:
Later.
full of beaver , dont forget
CANADIAN BEAVER...and Canadian Bacon...mmmm, bacon....with pure maple syrop....
All topped off with an extra large double double from Tim Horton's Coffee....mmmm
Later.
Naaa tim horton's is over-rated. Timothy's is way better.
Cool.
Buddha.
Tim hortons, i regret not bring back some of that on my return from cornwall/alexandria
Quote from: The Buddha on February 17, 2011, 08:26:20 AM
Naaa tim horton's is over-rated. Timothy's is way better.
Cool.
Buddha.
I'll let that one slide...on account that you may not know any better... :flipoff:
Later.
If hed try tims, hed know. :icon_neutral:
www.caffeine.ca (http://shopus.timhortons.com/Coffee-Products/b/2418418011?ie=UTF8&title=Coffee)
See, Yama knows!! He must make the trip to Canada just for the coffee... :icon_mrgreen:
Later.
Hell no, timothy's is the schnitz. Dude I am South Injun, I have coffee in my veins instead of blood.
I can drink a whole 24 oz of espresso - like a triple shot of expresso and steamed milk etc and in 10 mins go right to sleep.
This was my observation from 98-99 when I lived in toronto.
Starbucks - burnt crap. Char bucks. Awful, everywhere in the world they are burnt. Garbage.
Tim hortons - its a bit lighter but not burnt, but rather light for my taste. Its high in caffeine but lower on flavor.
Timothy's - Much more robust flavor, but less caffeine, and actually since I am immune to caffeine, this scores big with me.
Coffee Time (or Coughee time - cos they are all smoke filled cos they allow smoking there). Very light dishwater swill.
Second cup - I'd rate them below Hortons. My order is timothy's, Hortons, Second cup, starbucks and Coughhee time.
Cool.
Buddha.
Sounds like we have a similar pallet...anyone who can taste that Starbucks is just burnt swill gets a nod in my books...never heard anyone say Timmies was weak, and I agree about the Second Cup...it's pretty decent...
Later.
Horton's vs Timothy's ...
Taste is more full bodied with Timothy's but a bit less caffeine.
Horton's is more cafeinne but its less flavorful.
There may be some more points of these 2. BTW in the US the best coffee burners are not starbucks. Peet's. Yeow. Like they squeezed coal to make coffee.
Tully's and seattle's best coffee are my favorite national chains. Tully's is so close to Timothy's ... but the last time I had Timothy's was 99 and the first and last time I had tully's was 2002. No idea if anything has changed since.
Cool.
Buddha.
lol back to health insurance, heck am paying for it now. ( the illustrious obama plan some say he isnt liberal, but was voted as beign a leading liberal senator. but anyhoo, oddsare ill end up paying for insurance, and id say, ill be gone from this earth before i cna use it. unless they change something
So, what do you do if you hate the taste of coffee period! I'm 30 and never made it through a whole cup yet. The ticker also detests caffeine.
Mary
Coffee is an acquired taste if you ask me.
I've also found it easier to get used to it when its like a cafe latte instead of regular coffee.
Indian coffee is very full of milk and sugar, and we add in a little at a time. BTW I also got acclamatised to coffee around my 30'th year on the planet.
I still cant drink a whole lot of it black. Cream and sugar are a must, then I'd down 40 cups a day.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: The Buddha on February 19, 2011, 11:39:38 PM
Coffee is an acquired taste if you ask me.
I've also found it easier to get used to it when its like a cafe latte instead of regular coffee.
Indian coffee is very full of milk and sugar, and we add in a little at a time. BTW I also got acclamatised to coffee around my 30'th year on the planet.
I still cant drink a whole lot of it black. Cream and sugar are a must, then I'd down 40 cups a day.
Cool.
Buddha.
agreed. i tried indian coffee. ( a local restaurant had it. there was a vietnamese place here too. was called french coffee?, yummee. i drink FAR too much. unfortunately the only way i can stay moving. no energy whatsoever :(
Injun tea is nice too. That also is made with milk and sugar and some sweet spices like ginger, cloves, cardamom etc. Super cool.
Cool.
Buddha.
OK so it worked in Egypt and Tunisia, but turning into a bloody civil war in Libya.
I figured out why - The rebel forces ... see the problem is right there ... they are "Rebel" forces. We all know rebels are underpowered. They should have got gs500's, so they could have been GS500 forces and by this time they'd have won. That is, right after they have figured out the fuel starvation issue, the limp suspension, the rusty tank and the oil leaks.
Cool.
Buddha.