Hi everybody,
I'm Karl. I'm 42, married with 5 children. Yes 5 children. I live in the St. Louis area. I'm glad to see there is an active forum relating to the GS500.
I just bought a 2004 GS500F with 15,700 miles on it. I'm impressed with how well this bike handles in the twisties. The suspension and brakes feel decent and overall I'm very happy with the bike. The engine wants to die whenever I come to a stop and the idle isn't very consistent. I suspect the carbs need to be cleaned. I plan to remove the carbs and spray them out. I hope that will be enough otherwise I guess I'll have to take them apart and soak them. I'll be reviewing some of your posts for help on that one.
I also own a 2005 Honda 919. I bought the GS with the intention of teaching my teenage son how to ride. He's ridden a dirtbike so he is already accustomed to the workings of a bike- clutch, gears etc. He's going to take a MSF course this spring and then ride with me until I feel he is competent and responsible enough to go out on his own.
I rode dirtbikes growing up. I bought my first street bike when I was 20. I rode it for about 20,000 miles or so and then sold it shortly after getting married. Ten years later I bought an 02 Shadow Sabre. Two years and 40,000 miles later I bought an ST1100. Two years and 50,000 miles after that I bought the 919. I put 42,500 miles on the niner and it still looks and rides like new, other than the suspension is worn out. I'm looking to replace the rear shock and upgrade the front suspension this winter.
In order to save money (did I mention 5 kids?) I try to do most maintenance myself. Unfortunately, I'm a bit mechanically challenged so I'm looking forward to learning from all of you.
If any of you are in the St. Louis area let me know and we'll go ride sometime.
thanks
Welcome Karl! You'll find the GS500 is a very forgiving and easy machine to work with. Mechnically, its pretty straight forward.
5 kids huh? A business friend of mine has that many, 3 are in college now. OUCH!!
Welcome! always like to hear that someone's willing to wrench!
lots of gs info on here, and some great stuff on the gstwin's wiki page:
http://wiki.gstwins.com/ (//http://)
also don't forget to check your valve clearances, as tight valves can lead to tougher cold starts:
GStwin's Wiki - Valve Clearances (http://wiki.gstwins.com/index.php?n=Maintenance.CheckValves)
A GS AND a 919. A man after my own heart. Welcome brother. Got any pics of the bike to share? Themz the rulez. Pics or it didn't happen.
Michael
Welcome to the asylum! Well, once we see the pics (of the Honda, too!).
So, your stalling problem: Could be carbs. Maybe valves out of spec. When were they checked?
Try a dose of SeaFoam.
And check the idle screw.
or beat the living crap outta your engine till it works properly, you have kids, you know. :D
Quote from: Karl with a K on January 26, 2012, 11:13:33 AM
I'm looking to replace the rear shock and upgrade the front suspension this winter.
cbr954 front end swap!!
Welcome to the forum!
I removed the carbs today. So far so good. I also changed the spark plugs and will probably replace the air filter. I may take the advice given above and check the valves since she's dismantled already.
I'll post some pics soon.
Thanks for the warm welcome everyone.
Ok here are a couple of pics. Sorry I'm in there and you can't see the bike's real well, but I don't have time to search for a better one right now.
Here's me trying to disconnect the throttle cables from the carbs
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/picsbykarl/6769292891/in/photostream)
And this one is me triumphant in tearing out the heart of the poor girl. I only hope I can retrace my steps and get her back together. "What could possibly go wrong?"
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/picsbykarl/6769291259/in/photostream/)
hmmmm? something didn't work right. my pics didn't post.
I'll keep trying
Quote from: Karl with a K on January 26, 2012, 10:39:29 PM
Ok here are a couple of pics. Sorry I'm in there and you can't see the bike's real well, but I don't have time to search for a better one right now.
Here's me trying to disconnect the throttle cables from the carbs
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7003/6769292891_dfa4e64254_b.jpg)
And this one is me triumphant in tearing out the heart of the poor girl. I only hope I can retrace my steps and get her back together. "What could possibly go wrong?"
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7010/6769291259_4e8484c99d_b.jpg)
Fixed it for you! :)
The issue was you had multiple img and /img scattered about and it confused the system. Also, the links to the pics were not direct links but links to the website
containing the pictures. ;)
FFR you can use www.tinypic.com and use the "direct link" URL. Then you can C&P them into the post, then highlight the whole link and hit the Mona Lisa button
(http://gstwins.com/gsboard/Themes/default/images/bbc/img.gif)That aside, you're gonna fit right in here bud. Much respect is deserved for someone who'd rather fix something themselves than pay someone to do it.
I should also mention that you're better off cleaning the carbs and doing whatever else than just throwing seafoam or stuff like that at it (no offense Adidas). That way not only will you have an understanding of the carbs, you'll also fix the problem instead of the symptom! Can I also suggest that you re-jet the carb while you're in there? Here's the jetting information: http://wiki.gstwins.com/index.php?n=Upgrades.Rejetting (you'll receive benefit from increasing the sizes to the recommended for you setup, even if it's stock - these bikes are jetted very lean to begin with)
The hanging or floating idle can be quite a hassle to sort out. The root cause of this is a lean condition. There's a thread in the FAQ section pertaining to this very issue, though. Leaking intake boots can cause this, as can missing/worn out vacuum o-rings, particularly the ones on the tops of the carbs between the diaphragm (black and round) caps and the sync ports (covered by tapered black rubber boots). Aside from that, a clogged idle or pilot jet can also cause the issue.
You'll want to replace the float bowl gaskets just to be safe. Also, I'd recommend (as many do) replacing the float bowl JIS screws with stainless steel cap-head (allen/hex) bolts. These can either be ordered from Adidasguy (I think he has several dozen..er...hundreds...?), The Buddha, or perhaps your local Ace Hardware might have it. I know for a fact that the Home Depot near me does not carry the correct size in stainless steel and only regular steel. Also be sure to pick up a few locking washers: (http://www.boltdepot.com/images/catalog/lock-washer-high-collar-tiny.gif)
Here's a few tips I can offer while disassembling the carbs:
-Lay down a big sheet or something and disassemble on top of. There's a few tiny parts inside that can be easily lost.
-Keep parts separate from left to right carb - don't mix the parts up. It may be easier to clean them one at a time.
-Disassemble tops first - remove CV/Diaphragm caps first. Then after you've removed the diaphragm and needle, you can remove the float bowls.
-Lube the diaphragm by spraying some WD-40 around the seating edge and let them sit for a few minutes before trying to peel them off. If they're dried out, they'll crack and tear.
-The floats are held in by nothing more than an o-ring and luck. Be gentle with them! Pull straight out.
-Remove the jets, hold them up to a bright light and look through them. You should be able to see light for each one and the holes should be completely round and not jagged. It would be best to go ahead and soak them anyway. B-12 Chemtool works great for cleaning jets - and it's only 2.99 a can at walmart. After soaking, take apart an old lamp cord or audio cable and remove one long strand of copper wire. Resist the temptation to use anything harder than copper - you could potentially scratch the brass which will ruin the jet(s).
-Good luck removing the JIS screws on the float bowls. While they appear to be philips head, they are actually what is known as "Japanese Industrial Standard" or JIS screws. Yes, they are a huge pain and many of us have resorted to using a hacksaw and/or a pair of vice-grips to remove them. I was able to remove 3/4 of mine with a good fitting driver bit and a LOT of downward pressure. The 4th one (always the last one) stripped. I used a hacksaw and cut a huge slot in it and tried to use a big flat-blade. That didn't work either. I ended up grabbing the head with a pair of vicegrips and turning that way.
We're here to help you every step of the way if you like. There are a LOT of very knowledgeable people here. :)
Let us know how it goes and just remember, we love pictures!
Thanks for fixing my pics and all the great tips :D
When I saw the screw heads on the bottom of the carbs I remembered reading something on this site about those screw heads being soft. It saved me from stripping them out. Is there any way to get the proper tool to avoid having to replace the screws?
Is this some form of Japanese humor? Were they giggling as they put these screws in, thinking of how frustrated we would be when we stripped them out? The screws holding the tops came out fine.
Good advice on keeping all the parts in order. I also took pictures at different points so I can remember where all the hoses attach and how to fit everything back together.
Everything went pretty smooth. It took me a little while to figure out how to detach the throttle cables and the choke cable, but I eventually figured it out. This is the first time I've attempted anything like this without a shop manual.
alright I can't get my pics to show up. I can put links in though so here they are
http://flic.kr/p/bjcXyB
http://flic.kr/p/bjcY26
http://flic.kr/p/bjcYUH
http://flic.kr/p/bjcZme
http://flic.kr/p/bjcZLn
http://flic.kr/p/bjcHmx
http://flic.kr/p/bjcGYR
http://flic.kr/p/bjcHJg
to be continued...
Quote from: Karl with a K on January 27, 2012, 12:24:52 AM
Thanks for fixing my pics and all the great tips :D
When I saw the screw heads on the bottom of the carbs I remembered reading something on this site about those screw heads being soft. It saved me from stripping them out. Is there any way to get the proper tool to avoid having to replace the screws?
Is this some form of Japanese humor? Were they giggling as they put these screws in, thinking of how frustrated we would be when we stripped them out? The screws holding the tops came out fine.
Good advice on keeping all the parts in order. I also took pictures at different points so I can remember where all the hoses attach and how to fit everything back together.
Everything went pretty smooth. It took me a little while to figure out how to detach the throttle cables and the choke cable, but I eventually figured it out. This is the first time I've attempted anything like this without a shop manual.
Well, I believe the screws are meant to be one-time use. I could be mistaken on that, however. To "properly" remove them you'll need a JIS screwdriver and I honestly have no idea what size it is. I have seen them online but never in any store. Think of it this way...for what you'd pay for the screwdriver you could replace the screws. In fact, I think I have a few extra I could send you for just the cost of shipping if you wanted. My advice would be try to find a good fitting philips head screwdriver, try to remove them that way. If not, get your vicegrips out and remove them.
The reason why the tops came off easily is because, even though they're the same exact screws, they just aren't under as much torque. A normal philips head driver will work fine for this.
As far as the screw's origin...here's what Wikipedia says:
"JIS B 1012
The JIS B 1012 is commonly found in Japanese equipment. It looks like a Phillips screw, but is designed not to cam out and will, therefore, be damaged by a Phillips screwdriver if it is too tight. Heads are usually identifiable by a single dot or an "X" to one side of the cross slot.
Specific "JIS" standardized cruciform-blade screwdrivers are available for this type of screw."There is a wealth of information available here. Including fuel/hose routing information, just in case you get stuck!
cool, thanks.
I guess I'll try the phillips, hammer, vice grips method
what ever you do.. don't cut them off with a dremel.. :embarassed:
Karl,
before hooking into any X head screw make sure there is no small dot near the head...
(http://modelenginenews.org/images/gpb/pozi_iso.jpg)
That dot means it is a JIS screw - JIS stands for Japanese Industrial Standard and using a normal philips head on it will not work properly.
As for your pics. If you want to use flicker you need the image url not the page url. To get the image url go to the page. I'll use this link for an example http://flic.kr/p/bjcXyB
It then redirects to this http://www.flickr.com/photos/picsbykarl/6769597751/
Above the pic is a button called "Actions". Click it and choose "View All Sizes". For the sake of example we'll go with the 500 size. Click it and the new size will display for you.
Now right click on the image and choose Copy IMage URL or whatever equivalent it says in your browser. And for this example the URL is http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7011/6769597751_48cfa14830.jpg
Click the picture icon from above which will show two image tags...
[img][/img]
Paste the URL between those image tags...
[img]http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7011/6769597751_48cfa14830.jpg[/img]
When you preview or post the entry you will then get this...
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7011/6769597751_48cfa14830.jpg)
Now here are your other images...
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7153/6769599287_44a9b75888.jpg) (http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7171/6769602281_1cb8e6ae0b.jpg)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7167/6769603761_360e8980a9.jpg) (http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7024/6769605161_aa086fd38e.jpg)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7001/6769549955_49ab98c401.jpg) (http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7166/6769548697_334d778f5f.jpg)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7014/6769551215_5e568252ea.jpg)
Remember to Label your hoses so you can put them back in the right spot. Some duct tape with a number written on it with a sharpie will suffice.
Michael
Oh that's right...forgot the newer generation has metal CV caps instead of plastic.
Karl, I double checked with Ron Ayers and it appears that the newer gen uses different screws on the float bowls than the older gen. I do have screws to give you if you want them, but I'd need to know if they fit or not. Otherwise it's just a waste.
Anybody know if the older screws fit the newer carbs?
Also, here's a link to the exploded parts view (FICHE) for your bike:
http://www.ronayers.com/Fiche/TypeID/26/Type/Motorcycle/MakeID/2/Make/Suzuki/YearID/45/Year/2004/ModelID/6807/Model/GS500F/GroupID/290246/Group/CARBURETOR_MODEL_K4
Going in to work and working late tonight so I won't be able to get back to the carbs until tomorrow.
Lots of useful info here guys I really appreciate it.
I'll keep you posted how things go.
I successfully removed all the JIS screws from the bottom of the carbs. I used a small impact driver and they came out without any problems. A friend told me the reason those screws bind up so bad isn't due to over torquing, but it's due to the different types of metal coming in contact with each other. The screws are different than the carb housing and over time they have a chemical/electrical reaction that causes them to bond. That's why there is a grayish white fungus on the screws when they come out.
I wonder if this isn't intentional to try and keep people from messing with them. Oh well.
Jets are soaking.
That's just life when you're dealing with aluminum parts. Steel and aluminum will corrode together. Doesn't hurt to invest in a container of anti-seize. Use it like you would use normal grease when you're dealing with different metals, which in most cases will be steel hardware in aluminum parts....
(http://www.lowbrowcustoms.com/images/products/large_1347_anti-seize-loctite-8-oz-bottle-photo-1.jpg)
It's true it makes things harder to get out, but that's not the main reason they're so hard. If that was the case, we'd be using impact drivers on every part of the bike. This was just Suzuki's decision to use goofy screws instead of bolts. Any time I own a bike with screws in it I always replace them with hex socket bolts, button head if you need the low profile.
I totally forgot about the impact driver method - I didn't have one at the time so, naturally I made due with what I had.
So how did the jets look? More importantly, how clean was the bottom of the float bowl when you removed it? Any sediment?
Karl,
Welcome. I live in Springfield, Illinois. I'm 55 with four kids (two done with college, one in limbo and one starting next fall. I've only been riding for a year and a half on my first bike, a 1996 GS500E. I have been on some great twisty roads in my cage near 6-Flags. Are you familiar with those roads or others around St. Louis suitable for the motorcycle? I'm planning a few longer rides this summer. Maybe St. Louis would be a good test. I may heed the advice of forum contributors to get a gel seat. The stock seat is hard on the backside after about 100 miles. Enjoy the forum. I have found the people and the advice excellent. http://gstwins.com/gsboard/Smileys/New_Smile/cheesy.gif
Mimikeni, I'm very familiar with the roads around 6 flags. There are some even better ones a little further South and west in the Mark Twain National Forest. Let me know if you make it out this way again and I'll give some recommendations.
Kijona, The inside of the bowls looked very clean, no sediment. The jets also looked clean with the exception of some varnish build up on the smallest one. The jet holes didn't look round as if there may have been some build up in it.
I soaked the jets for a day and a half and then blew some compressed air through them. They all look good now.
I was going to put a washer on the valve piston to raise it a little, thereby allowing more fuel into the mix. However, I couldn't get the diaphram off of the needle and I was afraid of tearing the diaphram so I left it alone. The 04 carb is different from the older models. I saw pics of the older model and the pin drops out of the diaphram when you invert it. Mine wouldn't do that. Even tugging on it it wouldn't come out.
So I put the carbs back together and started reinstalling everything on the bike. Everything went smooth until I picked my gas tank up. One of the fuel lines is torn :mad:
I just ordered two new fuel lines. I figured I may as well replace both. Once they arrive I'll reinstall the tank and cross my fingers and start her up again.
Something else I discovered is there is a hole in the exhaust can between the exhaust and the swingarm. It looks like a bolt punched through the can when a previous owner dropped the bike on the right side.
I'm wondering if the hole in the exhaust is causing issues with backpressure?
Anyway, now that the carbs are cleaned if it still isn't running right I'll repair the hole to the exhaust. If that doesn't work I'll check the valve clearences.
Quote from: Karl with a K on January 30, 2012, 12:30:14 PM
Mimikeni, I'm very familiar with the roads around 6 flags. There are some even better ones a little further South and west in the Mark Twain National Forest. Let me know if you make it out this way again and I'll give some recommendations.
Kijona, The inside of the bowls looked very clean, no sediment. The jets also looked clean with the exception of some varnish build up on the smallest one. The jet holes didn't look round as if there may have been some build up in it.
I soaked the jets for a day and a half and then blew some compressed air through them. They all look good now.
I was going to put a washer on the valve piston to raise it a little, thereby allowing more fuel into the mix. However, I couldn't get the diaphram off of the needle and I was afraid of tearing the diaphram so I left it alone. The 04 carb is different from the older models. I saw pics of the older model and the pin drops out of the diaphram when you invert it. Mine wouldn't do that. Even tugging on it it wouldn't come out.
So I put the carbs back together and started reinstalling everything on the bike. Everything went smooth until I picked my gas tank up. One of the fuel lines is torn :mad:
I just ordered two new fuel lines. I figured I may as well replace both. Once they arrive I'll reinstall the tank and cross my fingers and start her up again.
Something else I discovered is there is a hole in the exhaust can between the exhaust and the swingarm. It looks like a bolt punched through the can when a previous owner dropped the bike on the right side.
I'm wondering if the hole in the exhaust is causing issues with backpressure?
Anyway, now that the carbs are cleaned if it still isn't running right I'll repair the hole to the exhaust. If that doesn't work I'll check the valve clearences.
Well, even a large hole (size of your thumb at least) wouldn't necessarily affect anything. It would make it sound like crap sure, but no big deal. The hole you're talking about sounds like the weep hole - is it at least uniform in shape and size? A pic may be necessary.
Varnished jets will definitely make the bike run like crap. I think you'll find it's a whole new bike with those sparkly clean jets! :thumb:
Last thing you'll need to do is double check the float height using this method: http://gstwin.com/float_height_check.htm
You may also want to sync the carbs. I'd tell you how but my knowledge of such only applies to the older model carbs - someone here will undoubtedly come along with a link on how to do it for a newer set.
I can, however, provide you with a link on how to make the proper tool to do it! http://www.650ccnd.com/mano.htm :)
Edit: I strongly suggest that you rig up an auxiliary fuel supply (hang it no higher than the handlebars otherwise it will flood) and test your work before you put the bike back together. I learned the hard way on this and ended up removing the tank 3 times which, each time, becomes increasingly frustrating. You can make use of your old fuel line too. :)
Many exhausts have a tiny hole at the low point of the can. Lets water drain out when you leave your bike in the rain. Also lets other crap drain out instead of filling up the can with el-crapo.
double check the float height??? Nuts!
I knew I forgot something.
Update.
I set the gas tank on a table next to the bike and hooked the old fuel lines up. I started the bike and it warmed up in about 5 minutes to where I could completely close the choke. It sounded good idling and it revved fine all the way to redline. The idle was solid around 1200 RPM.
I ordered new fuel lines. The real test will be when I can ride it, but I'm optimistic so far.
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/picsbykarl/6805464583/)
As for posting pics I'm not having as much luck. I've followed everyone's instructions, but Flickr won't give me the url by right clicking on the photo. I have to go to the share option and it gives me the url and tells me to just copy it and paste which is what i do. I tried clicking the picture button and pasting the url between the imag brackets and I've tried pasting the url first and then highlighting it and then clicking on the picture button. Nothing is working for me. I'm sure it's me. It makes me feel really old. Iike when I was a kid and my dad made me work the VCR because he couldn't figure it out.
Oh, well.
Quote from: Karl with a K on February 02, 2012, 12:04:17 AM
As for posting pics I'm not having as much luck. I've followed everyone's instructions, but Flickr won't give me the url by right clicking on the photo. I have to go to the share option and it gives me the url and tells me to just copy it and paste which is what i do. I tried clicking the picture button and pasting the url between the imag brackets and I've tried pasting the url first and then highlighting it and then clicking on the picture button. Nothing is working for me. I'm sure it's me. It makes me feel really old. Iike when I was a kid and my dad made me work the VCR because he couldn't figure it out.
Oh, well.
Flickr doesn't like to host images for use in other websites. Quote from their FAQ:
Quote
The direct link to a photo file is no longer shown on the page. Per the Flickr Community Guidelines "pages on other websites that display content hosted on flickr.com must provide a link from each photo or video back to its page on Flickr." Linking directly to the photo file doesn't do this.
So if you want to continue using Flickr, and embed your images here (you would be violating their community guidelines unless you also provide a link to Flickr), you will have to get the URL of the image from the image properties (right click|view image info).
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7152/6805464583_5aefc0254c_z.jpg)
Quote from: Karl with a K on February 02, 2012, 12:04:17 AM
As for posting pics I'm not having as much luck. I've followed everyone's instructions, but Flickr won't give me the url by right clicking on the photo.
Did you do what I suggested...
"Above the pic is a button called "Actions". Click it and choose "View All Sizes". For the sake of example we'll go with the 500 size. Click it and the new size will display for you.
Now right click on the image and choose Copy IMage URL or whatever equivalent it says in your browser."
Flickr has NOT disabled this option/method. So if you cannot do it it Must be something on your browser. Which browser are you using?
Failing that - and really Karl, people are not going to keep in clicking links to see photos - use either IMGUR or Tinypic. With imgur you can load multiple pics at the same time and then above the first pic that shows you'll see "second pic, third pic, etc" and you can click each of those to get the "direct link" from the right hand column. Give it a go - no need to register or sign in :thumb: :thumb:
Michael
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7022/6769610341_74932952e0_m.jpg)
Success!! :woohoo:
"you will have to get the URL of the image from the image properties (right click|view image info)"
that worked, thanks
Any news there, Karl? I hope all is well!
Those varnished jets are almost certainly the cause of your problem. I bet it'll feel like a new bike now! :thumb:
Hey! Karl, you stole my bike!
:D
I have the same year, same color, with no main side fairings
Fuel lines came in yesterday. I reinstalled the tank. The bike started up no problems, idles well, revs well. I drove it around the neighborhood and every time I come to a stop the engine dies >:(
Just rolling in 2nd when I pull the clutch in and down shift to first the engine dies. As soon as I let the clutch out it roll starts.
So apparently the carbs weren't the issue.
I am curious about the hole in the side of the exhaust. In the pic you can see the shadows where the can is dented in. At the center of that is a penny size hole. I was unable to get a better pic without taking off the exhaust.
Notice how the hole lines up perfectly with the bolt sticking out at the top of the rear brake caliper. I'm wondering if it was dropped on the right side and that bolt punched a hole.
Does anyone else have this on their exhaust? If not, I wonder if it is causing a lack of back pressure thereby causing the engine to die when decelerating.
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7156/6842309937_c42234bed5.jpg)
So you're saying that it ran fine until you tried to ride it? Will rolling the throttle keep the motor alive or not?
If it'll idle all day just sitting but as soon as you put it into gear it dies, that's a-whole-nother issue. LUCKILY it's an easy one to figure out. There are two sensors you need to have a look at - clutch sensor (is beneath the clutch lever - look for two wires), and the kick-stand sensor. Both of these are interference switches - in other words, they close the circuit when correctly positioned and open it otherwise. So naturally, what you'll want to do is jump (cross) the wires and see if that fixes the problem.
You can tell that at some point the muffler took a hit - the bracket is bent and there appear to be two dents which correspond to objects on the bike that the muffler would smash against were it to take a hit. And, to end your worries about the exhaust, let's put it this way...the bike would still run and ride with no muffler on it at all and just a straight pipe. True that this would likely result in you having to increase your idle speed slightly, but it would still run. The length of pipe, and the pressure generated by the two-into-one header, would be sufficient. A tell-tale sign of a motor not having enough backpressure (which makes the bike run lean unless some serious re-jetting is done) is backfiring - and a lot of it, especially on deceleration. Even still, it wouldn't kill the motor like you're talking about. A hole the size of a penny isn't going to do diddly-squat. :)
One last thing - the hanging idle you were talking about was indeed caused by that varnished idle jet. That problem wasn't going to cure itself and it's good you took care of it. You've also gained a great deal of knowledge about the carbs and how to clean them.
Yes rolling the throttle keeps the engine alive.
Putting it in gear doesn't kill the engine. The engine dies when I slow down and come to a stop for a stop sign. Or sometimes just slowing down, for example slowing down to about 20 miles per hour or so and shifting down to 1st. The engine dies.
If I give it a little throttle while the clutch is in and I'm downshifting the engine stays running.
Idle screw adjustment? Screw it in a little?
Quote from: Karl with a K on February 08, 2012, 02:37:10 PM
Yes rolling the throttle keeps the engine alive.
Putting it in gear doesn't kill the engine. The engine dies when I slow down and come to a stop for a stop sign. Or sometimes just slowing down, for example slowing down to about 20 miles per hour or so and shifting down to 1st. The engine dies.
If I give it a little throttle while the clutch is in and I'm downshifting the engine stays running.
It almost sounds like the bike is not completely warmed up or the idle speed is not set high enough. From your previous post you said it was running great and everything was hunky-dorey. I cannot imagine why it would just give out while you're trying to ride it. Perhaps you pinched a fuel line while re-installing the tank? Maybe the bike is low on gas? Try running on "RES" or "PRI" (just don't leave it parked with the engine off on "PRI").
Try this procedure: start the bike with it fully choked. It'll take a few seconds but the RPM will slowly start rising. Wait for it to hit or slightly exceed 4k RPM. Once it does, gradually reduce the choke until it hits 2-2.5k RPM. Leave it like that until you hear the RPM begin to rise again. Continue to adjust the choke to keep it in that 2-2.5k range. Eventually, after about 5 minutes or so, the bike will keep a good idle with no choke.
Another thing you can try if you
are allowing enough time for warmup, is to adjust the choke until the bike idles at 2k RPM and try riding it that way. Ride it for a while (more than around the block) and then try taking the choke off. If it runs fine like that, but STILL dies after taking the choke off, chances are your idle speed is set too low. I know the manual calls for 1200RPM but I've found that on both my 97 and my 07, 1200 is a bit too low. Both mine will occasionally stall out if I set the idle that low. I've found 1350-1400 to be a much better range.
Also check to make sure both cylinders are running. If one is hot and the other is cooler then you need to change spark pluges. Its just a quick thought.
(not my image)
(http://electrovw.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/drainscrew.jpg)
The flower-shaped screw labeled "1" in that picture is the idle adjustment. Tightening it will increase idle speed - loosening will reduce. Yours will look slightly different and is plastic from what I can tell in your pics. One full turn should grant you about 200RPM, give or take. It's not super critical that it be exactly a certain number, just that it sounds like it's idling smoothly and that it isn't above 1500.
Also, did you happen to sync the carbs? Normally, most people recommend that you sync the carbs after you do anything to them. It's not a big deal. It's just a little time consuming making the tool and taking the tank back off.
I adjusted the idle a little higher and that resulted in the engine racing a little. While riding it it accelerates a little when I'm not turning the throttle. So I don't think that is the solution.
This is the same problem I had prior to cleaning the carbs, so I don't think it was caused by anything I did.
As far warm up, I warm it up the way you describe. It seems to warm up just fine. Like I said the engine sounds good and strong at idle and revving and while riding. It's just when I slow to a stop that a problem occurs.
I changed the spark plugs when I cleaned the carbs.
No I didn't sync the carbs. I'll put that on my list of things to do, but would the carbs being out of sync cause the engine to die?
I'll feel the engine next time I run it to try and see if both cylinders are firing.
Thanks again for all the input.
Oh yeah, why shouldn't I leave the fuel petcock on PRI? What should I leave it on, on or reserve?
thanks
Quote from: Karl with a K on February 08, 2012, 03:55:27 PM
Oh yeah, why shouldn't I leave the fuel petcock on PRI? What should I leave it on, on or reserve?
thanks
PRI or "PRIME" bypasses the vacuum operation. The GS500's are known to have somewhat weak float needles. What can result is fuel flooding into your airbox/intake. Both "ON" and "RES" are operated by the vacuum. In other words, the petcock is "off" when the bike is not running. Suction from the carb causes the petcock to turn "ON" in both RES and "ON".
Quote from: Karl with a K on February 08, 2012, 03:34:46 PM
I adjusted the idle a little higher and that resulted in the engine racing a little. While riding it it accelerates a little when I'm not turning the throttle. So I don't think that is the solution.
This is the same problem I had prior to cleaning the carbs, so I don't think it was caused by anything I did.
As far warm up, I warm it up the way you describe. It seems to warm up just fine. Like I said the engine sounds good and strong at idle and revving and while riding. It's just when I slow to a stop that a problem occurs.
I changed the spark plugs when I cleaned the carbs.
No I didn't sync the carbs. I'll put that on my list of things to do, but would the carbs being out of sync cause the engine to die?
I'll feel the engine next time I run it to try and see if both cylinders are firing.
Thanks again for all the input.
So what happened was you turned the screw a little and all of a sudden the RPM jumped way up?
If that's the case, you've got a vacuum leak. Someone else will need to comment on the common places for vacuum leaks on the newer gen carbs since I'm not as well versed with them as I am the older model. A good place to start looking, however, is the boots that connect the carbs to the motor. Also check the tightness of the clamps.
You could also check the diaframs in the carbs. They are easy to pinch when you are putting it back together. Good on you for changing plugs. Dont worry you are narrowning it down and we will help, just keep at it. The more info you give us the more suggestions we may have. Keep going.
I also have a new air filter waiting to be picked up at the dealer. I know that may not be a contributor to the problem, but the old one looks dirty and it couldn't hurt to replace it.
The rubber diaphrams looked good when I had the carbs disassembled. Taking the advice from this board I looked carefully for any small holes or tears and I didn't see any. They were soft and pliable, not dried out at all. The carbs looked really clean and in good shape overall.
I wonder if soapy water sprayed around the carb boots where they meet the engine would reveal a vacuum leak? Any other suggestions for trouble shooting that?
Quote from: Karl with a K on February 08, 2012, 08:18:13 PM
I also have a new air filter waiting to be picked up at the dealer. I know that may not be a contributor to the problem, but the old one looks dirty and it couldn't hurt to replace it.
The rubber diaphrams looked good when I had the carbs disassembled. Taking the advice from this board I looked carefully for any small holes or tears and I didn't see any. They were soft and pliable, not dried out at all. The carbs looked really clean and in good shape overall.
I wonder if soapy water sprayed around the carb boots where they meet the engine would reveal a vacuum leak? Any other suggestions for trouble shooting that?
WD-40 or starting fluid is the preferred method of detecting leaks around the boots and carbs. WD-40 won't evaporate like starting fluid but isn't as volatile. Take your pick. Personally, I'm a little weary of spraying something as flammable as starting fluid around a hot motor but I guess it'll be okay. Many, many people have used this method successfully. The idea is that when it sucks the stuff in, it'll cause the idle to increase.
Quote from: Kijona on February 08, 2012, 04:20:03 PM
Someone else will need to comment on the common places for vacuum leaks on the newer gen carbs
That's cause you've only owned a GS for like a month
Ok, some riding buddies have suggested that the Air/Fuel Mix screw could be a culprit. Since there are plugs sealing them in, I never removed the screw to clean it.
Tight Valves could be a culprit?
Out of sync carbs?
Ok, so my plan of attact is as follows:
Install new air filter.
Remove the carbs again. Remove the air/'fuel screw and clean it and all it's passages as best I can.
I'm considering going with a stage 1 jet kit since I'm going this far anyway.
Before buttoning it all back up I'll check the valves. If they are out of spec I'll adjust them.
Lastly I'll sync the carbs.
I think that will cover all the bases. What could possibly go wrong? :dunno_black:
Thanks for the interest in this thread and all the advice. I will keep you all posted.
I'm off to search the net for a shop manual.
Karl, I have what I assume is the shop manual, and a supplement for the F model. PM me your email and I'll send it to you.
Also, I just want to say that this is a freaking awesome thread. Everyone involved should be proud.
Quote from: Karl with a K on February 10, 2012, 09:05:17 PM
Ok, some riding buddies have suggested that the Air/Fuel Mix screw could be a culprit. Since there are plugs sealing them in, I never removed the screw to clean it.
Tight Valves could be a culprit?
Out of sync carbs?
Ok, so my plan of attact is as follows:
Install new air filter.
Remove the carbs again. Remove the air/'fuel screw and clean it and all it's passages as best I can.
I'm considering going with a stage 1 jet kit since I'm going this far anyway.
Before buttoning it all back up I'll check the valves. If they are out of spec I'll adjust them.
Lastly I'll sync the carbs.
I think that will cover all the bases. What could possibly go wrong? :dunno_black:
Thanks for the interest in this thread and all the advice. I will keep you all posted.
I'm off to search the net for a shop manual.
GSTwins sells a shop manual. $20. Other methods are available but most of us here frown upon them. We understand that not everyone is made of money, though. :)
Checking the valves? :thumb: It's a good idea anyway so why the hell not? It sure is a pain to remove all that crap, so, might as well git'r'done. :P
Now, about jetting. You'll need this information: http://wiki.gstwins.com/index.php?n=Upgrades.Rejetting
Buying a "kit" is going to cost you a lot more than it should. I've seen jets for our carbs for as little as $4 a piece. With that in mind, even if you replaced all 6 jets, that would only be a total of $24 - much cheaper than a jet kit. That wiki should have the sources for you. You can also contact The Buddha or Adidasguy to see if either of them have any extra jets for you.
Onto drilling the mixture screw caps.
(http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg85/scaled.php?server=85&filename=68054645835aefc0254cb.jpg&res=medium)
I'm sure you probably already knew which caps to drill but I just wanted to be clear. There are a few pics of people's carbs floating around where they mistakenly drilled the caps
below those. Needless to say, drilling those lower caps will ruin your day (and your carburetors). The method of removal is simple...drill the hole slightly bigger and then insert a sheetrock screw and pull/bend/whatever to remove them. Do be gentle with them, though. Also, note that there are springs beneath the mixture screws - very weak springs but springs nonetheless. Just be sure you don't let anything go flying! There's an o-ring in there too, which might be the cause of your dilemma.
Putting up links to the PDF's well technically not legal. But, if someone is having a real problem getting a hold of one weather access or money is not frowned upon unless it has changed recently :dunno_black:
Karl welcome to the board. I would suggest checking valve clearances as well. I had these issues with Flick and assumed it couldn't be the valves due to maintenance plan boy was I wrong. I ended up with a burnt valve! So, try to check everything as you can!
mary
Hey Karl, my name is Karl too. Now that that's out of the way, I'd recommend that you buy some socket head cap screws to replace all the JIS screws on the carburetors. Doing so makes future disassembly much easier. Really I just wanted to post because we share our first name.
4 x M5x12mm
10 x M4x10mm
Quote from: k.rollin on February 12, 2012, 02:45:45 AM
Hey Karl, my name is Karl too. Now that that's out of the way, I'd recommend that you buy some socket head cap screws to replace all the JIS screws on the carburetors. Doing so makes future disassembly much easier. Really I just wanted to post because we share our first name.
4 x M5x12mm
10 x M4x10mm
Earlier on in this thread I recommended this to him but I think he wants to keep it stock. :dunno_black:
I didn't replace the JIS screws partly due to laziness and partly due to the impact driver worked so well that the heads weren't damaged. Lowe's doesn't carry the screws I need so I'll have to find a real hardware store.
I'll probably replace them this time around.
Good info on the jets. I'll be shopping.
Work is going to interfere with my wrenching this week :mad:
I don't expect to get into this until next weekend.
I'll keep you guys and girls posted
Quote from: Karl with a K on February 12, 2012, 10:44:53 PM
I didn't replace the JIS screws partly due to laziness and partly due to the impact driver worked so well that the heads weren't damaged. Lowe's doesn't carry the screws I need so I'll have to find a real hardware store.
I'll probably replace them this time around.
Good info on the jets. I'll be shopping.
Work is going to interfere with my wrenching this week :mad:
I don't expect to get into this until next weekend.
I'll keep you guys and girls posted
Shoot me a private message with your address and I'll send you a set for free.
You have mail. :icon_lol:
Well, hopefully you'll be able to use those. According to Adidasguy they'll fit...so if they don't, blame him!! :D
Thanks. :thumb:
I just got back into town from work stuff and I plan to check the valves tomorrow. I already pulled the carburator so I'll swap out the screws before replacing it.
I'll update sometime in the next couple of days and let you know what the valve clearances looked like.
I finally got around to inspecting the valves.
Here's what I found. My smallest feeler gauge is .038.
Left Cylinder Right Cylinder
Intake .063 Intake .038
Exhaust less than .038 Exhaust Less than .038
Specs are between .03 and .08 for all
So both of my exhaust valves are tight. How tight is hard to say since I don't have a small enough feeler gauge to measure it. The intake on the right cylinder is still within spec, but on the tight end of the spectrum. The intake on the left cylinder looks good.
So I'm going to order a valve shim tool and try to find some shims. Does anyone know if the original shims are always the same size? From the valve adjusting videos I've seen 265 seems to be the common shim they are replacing.
I wonder if I found a few 260s and 255s if I would be covered?
Order a caliper gauge/micrometer to measure your shims too.
Sorry I haven't posted in a while. Family and work have kept me away.
I finally got around to pulling the shims to see what sizes they were so I could order replacements. I ordered two new shims, a 270 and a 265. I decided to adjust the right intake as well as the two exhaust valves.
I also decided to replace the gasket and o rings. Perhaps unnecesary, but I it wasn't that much money so what the heck. All parts should arrive next week. I'll hopefully be able to get it put back together by next weekend.
I decided not to mess with the carburator anymore until the valves are adjusted. If that doesn't solve the problem I'll look at doing a compression check and a carb sync.
This is all new to me. I'm learning a lot. I'm also collecting more tools.
Hi everybody. Great news. I adjusted the valves back into spec and put it all back together. I rode it around the neighborhood today and it is riding fine. :woohoo:
The valve adjustment seems to have done the trick. :thumb:
Next task is to get a new chain and sprockets and then I'll be racking up some miles on the little GS.
I'm also looking forward to getting my 16 year old on it and teaching him to ride street.
Thanks again for everyone's help, especially the video tutorials. They really made it easy for me to do what I needed to.
Cheers,
Karl with a K
congrats. bet it was worth the work.
Put on a new chain tonight, replaced the brake fluid and synced the carbs. The GS is riding great. I feel like I've rescued a neglected child. Whoever owned it before did absolutely nothing to maintain it.
I'm really happy with it. What it lacks in power (compared to the 919) it makes up for in handling. The 919 handles really well, but this little GS turns even better. It's very nimble. I can't wait to get it out on some curvy backroads.
Awesome! Congrats man.