Hi,
I am new to the forums, but have been reading them for sometime. I read from some other members and they use "normal" oil used in cars instead of motorcycle oil because it's cheaper. what oil works well for the GS and what should i look for when buying oil? I'm looking at synthetic.
Thanks for any advice/help!
You can use oil for cars as long as it is the correct weight and isn't "Energy conserving." Basically, EC oils have friction modifiers that are supposed to boost fuel economy for cars, but for bikes the clutch has oil as well, which creates slippage issues. Generally speaking 10w40 automotive oils lack these friction modifiers, but I would double check the bottle.
As far as motorcycle vs. motor oil, I just buy the Suzuki branded oil around 5.30?/qt or so, which is right around what most conventional oils cost these days anyways.
Now this is pure speculation, but the Suzuki oil part number is similar to Penzoil or Rotella part numbers. Granted the oil might come from the same refinery, but the additive packages might be different, I'm not sure.
As far as synthetic goes, I haven't explored it much, all though they are supposed to deal with heat better which might be a positive since our bikes basically use the oil for cooling and lubrication.
I think it was BaltimoreGS just did some youtube videos (on monday i think) regarding this very subject.
They are concise and informative. Id recommend watching them.
They shouldn't be more than a few threads back.
Any info on this matter would be great. i would like to run synthetic as well
3rd video from the bottom of the first post:
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=58403.0
Quote from: ninjeff on March 01, 2012, 09:06:21 AM
I think it was BaltimoreGS just did some youtube videos (on monday i think) regarding this very subject.
They are concise and informative. Id recommend watching them.
They shouldn't be more than a few threads back.
The video was very helpful. i think im gonna try vavoline 10w 40 synthetic motorcycle oil just to be on the safe side. this is my first bike and i dont want to ruin it lol
I prefer skim milk because it keeps the bearings from scorching under cross winds. :icon_twisted:
Arguing about moto oil is like the song that never ends. As long as you're not using energy conserving oil it's pretty hard to go wrong.
Dunno where exactly I read it, but fully synthetic oil may cause a slipping clutch. So if you wanna go synthetic, I'd recommend a half-mineral / half synthetic oil.
If you use WalMart 10-40 at $1.75 a quart and change it regularly your engine should last well in excess of 100,000 miles, if you use a MC specific oil at $8.00 a quart and change it regularly your engine should last well in excess of 100,000 miles. If I were you I'd opt for the $8.00 oil because it will make you feel much better about the whole thing---money that makes you feel good is always money well spent.
Personally, I always use inexpensive 15-40 diesel oil ( whatever is on sale ) and have for years. A MC mechanic once told me it's the best kept secret in the business---he told me to keep it to myself, he says it's every bit as good as high priced MC oils and in most cases better.
GSJack is the real authority when it comes to keeping a GS alive for a long time. He has logged close to 200,000 combined on two GS500's. Search his posts and see what oil he runs.
Like I said in the video, do some research and use whatever oil you feel comfortable with. One thing to bear in mind when you're researching is that the GS500 engine debuted in 1989 and hasn't changed much. Moreover, the GS500 engine is derived from the GS450 engine design which debuted in 1980. It is really old technology so the latest and greatest synthetic oils are really overkill for it. Synthetic oil shouldn't hurt anything though if it is designed for use with a wet clutch. In the end it is your money, spend it however you like :thumb:
-Jessie
Here's a great compromise. Use Castrol Racing 4T 10w-40 motorcycle oil. PepBoys sells it in a 4L jug (actually more than a gallon) for $14.99. It's not ultra high-tech or anything, but it is a motorcycle-specific oil AND it's relatively cheap. It ends up being about 3.75 a quart...though it's liter so it's a little more.
It's what I put in all my motorcycles. :)
Motorcycle specific oils should still be SG type but hardly worth their premium price I think. Biggest difference between them and API rated oils like current SM,SN etc is the removal or reduction in the film strengthening additives like zink which were harmful to auto cat converters. Such additives are more important in motorcycles using the engine oil to lubricate the trannys because the shearing action of the gears breaks down the oil faster. Other major factor is the energy conserving additives that can cause a wet clutch in a bike to slip but there are 10W-40 and higher viscosity API SM oils that don't have these.
The heavy duty oils aka truck/deisel oils like Rotella T, Delvac, Delo, etc have more of the desirable zink additive and no energy conserving additives making them desirable for bikes. Also the the Rotella T now has the JASO MA rating meaning it meets motorcycle specs, JASO is the Japanese agency like our API that rates motor oils. There is also a JASO MB rated oil with energy conserving additives for bikes with dry clutches so make sure you get MA.
The Rotella T 15W-40 conventional oil is my current choice for use year around here in NE Ohio until something better comes along. I used 15W-50 Mobil 1 synthetic for the first 50k miles in my 97 GS and after oil consumption increased considerably with advancing milage I switched to the less costly 15W-40 Rotella/Delvac type heavy duty oils. I've used only the heavy duty oils in my current 02 GS for over 92k miles now. My 97 GS ran cooler on the 15W-40 oil than it did on the 15W-50 oil requireing a lower grade of gasoline in hot weather. I see no advantage to using a synthetic oil in the GS500. Your experience may vary.
I had an old high milage Honda CB750 that was starting to use a lot of oil about 25 years ago so I put synthetic oil in it thinking it might hold up better. It began leaking from the cylinder base gasket as well as a couple engine side covers almost immediately when hot and I changed back to conventional oil and the new leaks stopped.
Quote from: Kijona on March 02, 2012, 01:02:21 AM
Here's a great compromise. Use Castrol Racing 4T 10w-40 motorcycle oil. PepBoys sells it in a 4L jug (actually more than a gallon) for $14.99. It's not ultra high-tech or anything, but it is a motorcycle-specific oil AND it's relatively cheap. It ends up being about 3.75 a quart...though it's liter so it's a little more.
It's what I put in all my motorcycles. :)
Dang that's pretty good although idk where the nearest pep boys is. only have advance auto and oreillys for auto parts stores here.
Quote from: trojanone1 on March 02, 2012, 09:17:04 AM
Quote from: Kijona on March 02, 2012, 01:02:21 AM
Here's a great compromise. Use Castrol Racing 4T 10w-40 motorcycle oil. PepBoys sells it in a 4L jug (actually more than a gallon) for $14.99. It's not ultra high-tech or anything, but it is a motorcycle-specific oil AND it's relatively cheap. It ends up being about 3.75 a quart...though it's liter so it's a little more.
It's what I put in all my motorcycles. :)
Dang that's pretty good although idk where the nearest pep boys is. only have advance auto and oreillys for auto parts stores here.
Advance sells valvoline 10W40 MOTORCYCLE oil for $5.20 a quart
Cookie
I have been using Shell Rotella for years in most of my bikes with no issues. Cheap, good oil.
I heard this said on another forum,
"New, cheap oil is a lot better in your bike than used expensive oil"
-Change your oil often for longer life out of your bike. I do oil changes on the GS every 1000-1500 miles with the Shell Rotella. My Husqvarna supermoto track bike gets the oil changed every 300-400 miles with AGIP 10-W-60 (but that bike only holds 1.3 liters!!!!)
Quote from: craigs449 on March 03, 2012, 08:25:42 AM
I have been using Shell Rotella for years in most of my bikes with no issues. Cheap, good oil.
I heard this said on another forum,
"New, cheap oil is a lot better in your bike than used expensive oil"
-Change your oil often for longer life out of your bike. I do oil changes on the GS every 1000-1500 miles with the Shell Rotella. My Husqvarna supermoto track bike gets the oil changed every 300-400 miles with AGIP 10-W-60 (but that bike only holds 1.3 liters!!!!)
Just remember - too much of a good thing is bad. The recommended oil change interval on the GS is every 3000 miles.
Let's consider what happens when you change the oil...you're removing all the motor's lubrication. There is, even if it's just a few seconds, a short amount of time when the bike is running without proper lubrication (when you start the bike after you're finished). If you consider you're changing it every 1 or 1.5 thousand miles, that's double or even TRIPLE the number of times the engine is exposed to the aforementioned condition.
Granted, this is of course nothing but speculation. Just something to consider. :)
Quote from: Kijona on March 03, 2012, 11:00:38 AMnothing but speculation
This is also speculation:
When you drain the oil for a change, properly:
Engine warm, open drain plug
It's not a pressurized affair, meaning not ALL of the oil comes out and leaves everything bone dry. There is oil in the head, in the clutch, and in the stator side that doesn't all come out. Now if you had let the bike sit for 2-3 years without starting it, THAT would be like the situation you posted above, where you would need to put some oil in the cylinders (after making sure they weren't stuck) to help keep damage from happening.
Make sense?
If you are worried about starvation from a simple oil change (which you shouldn't be), just put a teaspoon of oil down the spark plug holes and crank the bike, put plugs back in, voilà.
Quote from: Bullfrog on March 01, 2012, 07:36:47 PM
Dunno where exactly I read it, but fully synthetic oil may cause a slipping clutch. So if you wanna go synthetic, I'd recommend a half-mineral / half synthetic oil.
Stop repeating stuff you think you only heard somewhere and don't know if it is true. It's NOT helpful to anyone.
To the OP... we hardly ever get an oil thread here, thanks for asking....
You have many options available to you...
1 - truck oil
2 - any old motorcar oil
3 - cheapest motorcycle oil you can get
4 - expensive motorcycle oils
In the end you get what you want, that's within your budget and lets you sleep at night knowing you're all lubed up. Here's what I Have used and now use...
Started with some basic Motul oil for the first couple services - keep in mind I have had this bike since new and there are now 50,000+kms on it. In the beginning, getting into first was a little cluncky and a little lurchy when cold. Standard for this bike. I'd also get false neutrals.
I switched to Motul 5100 and things improved greatly. Good stuff. False neutrals a thing of the past.
I switched to Motul 300v (factoryline, as that is the motorcycle version). And I couldn't believe how much smoother the gear changes became and I could now push the bike around in gear when it was cold. Not possible with the previous oils.
Last change I switched to Mobile 1 Racing 4t Fully Synthetic and man is it good. Gear changes are smoother than anything. I read the thread about the GS500 vs the R6 and the comments on the smoothness of the R6 with gear changes and I think... use the right oil and you can get that on a GS500. So smooth are they I don't actually feel a click which changing up. Clutch in, a light tap up and she just slides in without fuss.
Of course, the Mobile doesn't smell as good as Motul (smell Motul, it has an essential oil fragrance about it) but it is better. BUT, this fully synthetic stuff is not cheap.
Yeah but it's only a GS so why put in pricey oil? Fine, think that way. My GS is not "just a gs" it is the machine I am controlling, which needs to be reliable, mechanically sound and functioning to keep me from harm. If that costs me a couple bucks extra big whoop. Let's face it, riding a bike is not a Cheap thing, insurance is higher, service intervals shorter, parts wear quicker and so on. It would actually be cheaper to have a Small car.
Student with no money? Then why do you have a motorcycle? Get a pushbike and/or catch public transport. How much public transport could you catch for the $2k you bought the GS for?
I raise the money points because it's a regular theme and people need to face reality... motorcycles are NOT cheap. If you don't like it, offload the bike and save your money and spend it on other things, just don't use it as an excuse. And if the cheapest of everything is bought for the bike and it doesn't perform like a formula one race car, don't blame the bike, blame the cheap stuff bought for the bike.
Don't buy cheap batteries than complain about battery strength and power, for example.
Ok. End of rant.
Back to the question...
Use whatever oil you want. :thumb: It's just a GS and the engine is bullet proof. :icon_mrgreen:
Michael
Quote from: Kijona on March 03, 2012, 11:00:38 AM
Just remember - too much of a good thing is bad. The recommended oil change interval on the GS is every 3000 miles.
Let's consider what happens when you change the oil...you're removing all the motor's lubrication. There is, even if it's just a few seconds, a short amount of time when the bike is running without proper lubrication (when you start the bike after you're finished). If you consider you're changing it every 1 or 1.5 thousand miles, that's double or even TRIPLE the number of times the engine is exposed to the aforementioned condition.
Granted, this is of course nothing but speculation. Just something to consider. :)
You are trying to tell me regular oil changes are detrimental to my bikes engine? Everytime you cold start your engine you realize you are doing the same thing right?
While I don't agree that changing your oil more often than the recommended intervals is a bad thing, there is a difference between starting your bike cold and starting your bike after an oil change because the oil has to be pumped into the oil filter. Ever notice how long your oil pressure light stays on the first start after an oil change?
-Jessie
Fair enough but if you are changing the oil before the specified service interval, I personally do not do the filter every change. I do it on every second.
Quote from: mister on March 03, 2012, 03:00:41 PM
Quote from: Bullfrog on March 01, 2012, 07:36:47 PM
Dunno where exactly I read it, but fully synthetic oil may cause a slipping clutch. So if you wanna go synthetic, I'd recommend a half-mineral / half synthetic oil.
Stop repeating stuff you think you only heard somewhere and don't know if it is true. It's NOT helpful to anyone.
As long as it's helpful (and I think it is), I'm NOT gonna stop repeating it. There were several users in the german GS-forum who said that synth oil would cause a slipping clutch, so there must be something about it. Otherwise I don't see why s.o. should mention it.
I simply don't know if it's true because I've never had the problem because I only go mineral because they wrote it in the forum. Clear?
Quote from: Twisted on March 03, 2012, 05:18:18 PM
Fair enough but if you are changing the oil before the specified service interval, I personally do not do the filter every change. I do it on every second.
Well, like I said, it's just something to think about - I wasn't stating it as gospel, heh.
Oil filter is a different story - there is something to be said for leaving one in for a bit longer. As the filters get "clogged" they become more effective - at the cost of restricting the flow of oil.
Oil experts who have done extensive testing say that filters do become more effective with use, they say that once your engine has been broken in and you have proper air filtration your oil filter should be effective and minimally restrictive for at least 12000 miles, they say changing the oil filter at 3000 miles with the oil is wasteful and totally unnecessary.
I run Mobile 1 4T Full Synth Racing Oil...
I change it every 5000-6000 miles, It comes out looking almost as nice as it went in, I regularly check the oil level to make sure its not running low and put in the best filter I can afford. Motoroils are a lot better than they used to be and the 3000 mile interval is a farce to sell more oil. Never used diesel oil but I have and keep hearing good things but I just pick up the best and say meh, I have enough invested into my bike that if I spend 40-50 bux for a oil change who cares. Cheapness is always the downfall of a engine. Change wear parts early and often.
Not a motorcycle but my kick ass Geo that carried Adfalchius and I on a 10,000 mile cross country trip this summer just turned 198,000 miles. It is a running testament to cheap oil changed often :thumb:
-Jessie
Another oil thread. The season has officially started! :woohoo:
Quote from: mister on March 03, 2012, 03:00:41 PM
Quote from: Bullfrog on March 01, 2012, 07:36:47 PM
Dunno where exactly I read it, but fully synthetic oil may cause a slipping clutch. So if you wanna go synthetic, I'd recommend a half-mineral / half synthetic oil.
Stop repeating stuff you think you only heard somewhere and don't know if it is true. It's NOT helpful to anyone.
To the OP... we hardly ever get an oil thread here, thanks for asking....
You have many options available to you...
1 - truck oil
2 - any old motorcar oil
3 - cheapest motorcycle oil you can get
4 - expensive motorcycle oils
In the end you get what you want, that's within your budget and lets you sleep at night knowing you're all lubed up. Here's what I Have used and now use...
Started with some basic Motul oil for the first couple services - keep in mind I have had this bike since new and there are now 50,000+kms on it. In the beginning, getting into first was a little cluncky and a little lurchy when cold. Standard for this bike. I'd also get false neutrals.
I switched to Motul 5100 and things improved greatly. Good stuff. False neutrals a thing of the past.
I switched to Motul 300v (factoryline, as that is the motorcycle version). And I couldn't believe how much smoother the gear changes became and I could now push the bike around in gear when it was cold. Not possible with the previous oils.
Last change I switched to Mobile 1 Racing 4t Fully Synthetic and man is it good. Gear changes are smoother than anything. I read the thread about the GS500 vs the R6 and the comments on the smoothness of the R6 with gear changes and I think... use the right oil and you can get that on a GS500. So smooth are they I don't actually feel a click which changing up. Clutch in, a light tap up and she just slides in without fuss.
Of course, the Mobile doesn't smell as good as Motul (smell Motul, it has an essential oil fragrance about it) but it is better. BUT, this fully synthetic stuff is not cheap.
Yeah but it's only a GS so why put in pricey oil? Fine, think that way. My GS is not "just a gs" it is the machine I am controlling, which needs to be reliable, mechanically sound and functioning to keep me from harm. If that costs me a couple bucks extra big whoop. Let's face it, riding a bike is not a Cheap thing, insurance is higher, service intervals shorter, parts wear quicker and so on. It would actually be cheaper to have a Small car.
Student with no money? Then why do you have a motorcycle? Get a pushbike and/or catch public transport. How much public transport could you catch for the $2k you bought the GS for?
I raise the money points because it's a regular theme and people need to face reality... motorcycles are NOT cheap. If you don't like it, offload the bike and save your money and spend it on other things, just don't use it as an excuse. And if the cheapest of everything is bought for the bike and it doesn't perform like a formula one race car, don't blame the bike, blame the cheap stuff bought for the bike.
Don't buy cheap batteries than complain about battery strength and power, for example.
Ok. End of rant.
Back to the question...
Use whatever oil you want. :thumb: It's just a GS and the engine is bullet proof. :icon_mrgreen:
Michael
idk where what direction that rant went but my $1200 *not 2K* GS is saving me money on gas compared to my SUV. i just got it last mid summer and don't plan on getting rid of it soon.
EDIT: sorry misread part about student section and got insulted :embarrassed:. No, the reason i got bike WAS to save money and it has the few months I rode it.
Quote from: crzydood17 on March 07, 2012, 04:18:38 PM
I run Mobile 1 4T Full Synth Racing Oil...
I change it every 5000-6000 miles, It comes out looking almost as nice as it went in, I regularly check the oil level to make sure its not running low and put in the best filter I can afford. Motoroils are a lot better than they used to be and the 3000 mile interval is a farce to sell more oil. Never used diesel oil but I have and keep hearing good things but I just pick up the best and say meh, I have enough invested into my bike that if I spend 40-50 bux for a oil change who cares. Cheapness is always the downfall of a engine. Change wear parts early and often.
I see your wisdom in cheapness being a downfall
Quote from: redhawkdancing on March 07, 2012, 08:35:08 PM
Another oil thread. The season has officially started! :woohoo:
I know first time changing oil w/ first bike :icon_mrgreen:
I feel like playing devil's advocate this morning. I think it is safe to say the majority of people that buy a GS ride it a season or two and then get rid of it for something else. If you plan to be one of those owners then why bother shelling out more money for oil that may prolong the life of an engine when you won't reap those benefits??
-Jessie
Quote from: BaltimoreGS on March 08, 2012, 04:55:26 AM
I feel like playing devil's advocate this morning. I think it is safe to say the majority of people that buy a GS ride it a season or two and then get rid of it for something else. If you plan to be one of those owners then why bother shelling out more money for oil that may prolong the life of an engine when you won't reap those benefits??
-Jessie
Right, not only is paying $8 a quart highly unlikely to prolong your engines life over a regular 10-40 beyond the 100,000 mile mark, but who the hell is going to have their GS past that anyway. I have a friend with an old Kaw KZ-1000 with well over 150, 000 miles on it, he bought it new and never used anything but whatever 10-40 or 20-50 oil that Walmart had on sale at the time--oil changed at 3000 and filter at 6000. To this day it runs strong and uses almost no oil between changes. Does anyone really believe they will still have their GS at anywhere near that?
I'm not sure how long i plan on having my little GS. I plan on keeping it at least until i graduate college but is it a waste of money to use the $8-10 motorcycle oil?
Quote from: trojanone1 on March 08, 2012, 08:43:22 AM
I'm not sure how long i plan on having my little GS. I plan on keeping it at least until i graduate college but is it a waste of money to use the $8-10 motorcycle oil?
At the end of the day it is YOUR bike, just ask yourself what oil you feel comfortable using.
-Jessie
yeah you're right. I ended up picking up some Mobil synthetic 10W40 at Advance since it was on sale. How long does it take to change oil on the GS? changed oil in my truck but not a motorcycle.
Depends how fast your work ;-) 20 minutes-ish would be a good guesstimate.
-Jessie
Quote from: redhawkdancing on March 07, 2012, 08:35:08 PM
Another oil thread. The season has officially started! :woohoo:
I really don't understand why oil viscosity/brand and gas octane are so incredibly important to people. Its different forms of temporary crap, that is burned. I'll just ride instead.
about the same time as my truck than. thanks for the help guys