Ok before I say anything and get destroyed by everyone calling me a noob/squid and stuff lemme clear up a few things...
I started riding with an MSF course, got my license, practiced on a friend's old bike for a few months, then bought my first bike. The bike was a 2007 GS500F with 6K miles on it. I bought it from a trusted friend who is an extreme wrench monkey and a mechanical engineer by trade. When I first got the bike it was FLAWLESS. The only custom work that was done to the engine that isn't cosmetic or electrical was the addition of a Jardine exhaust system. I am also new to this forum so please excuse me if i posted this in the wrong section. I only put about 600 miles on the bike, during which the chain was oiled twice, and the oil changed once. I use fully synthetic SAE 10W-40 motorcycle oil without any friction modifiers. The bike is wiped down after every ride, and stored in my garage, under a cover...clearly i take pride in this bike...(PS I NEVER ride this bike hard)
Now onto the issue...
About a week ago I took my bike on a short errand. It was approx. 5 mi to my destination and 5mi. back. On my way back, about 1 mi away from my house, I was making a sharp turn in second gear at about 25mph, as I was applying more throttle to pull me out of the turn I began to lose power. Eventually I lost all power, and I coasted to the side of the road and the engine died on me. (The red oil light came on that indicated that the engine was off) I tried to restart the engine by pulling in the clutch and pressing the ignition button. Nothing in the engine turned over, but I know it was attempting to start because my headlight would dim ever so slightly when I pressed the ignition. I then figured it was because I was still in second gear and for some reason she wasnt happy. I pulled the clutch all the way in and tried to down shift into neutral and found it EXTREMELY difficult to get anything to shift. Eventually, however, I got it into neutral. Next, I checked the oil because it was the next logical step. When I checked I saw that it was only about a 1/4 full. Mind you, the bike was not smoking, or producing strange scents while it was running. I didnt think much of it and figured I would get the bike home and put more oil there (again, home was 1 mi away). After about a minute or two of waiting, the bike eventually started without any indications of problems (no weird scents or sounds), and oddly enough, there was no red oil light indicating low oil. I took the bike home and put it in my garage. I didnt ride it for about a week due to the fact that it was storming all week. The following weekend i figured id take her out to the nearest autozone for oil. (About 2 mi away) The bike started up normally, and there was no indication on my garage floor of any oil leaks. I took her out and literally only rode 1/4mi when the same thing happened, in second gear again. This time the bike wouldnt restart at all or shift into neutral no matter ho hard i pulled in the clutch and pressed on the shifter. I went to check the oil again, this time burning my fingers on the cap because it was exceptionally hot. When I removed the dipstick i saw that it was BONE DRY. This baffled me, but I called up a friend who went and picked up the oil for me as I waited by the bike on the street. (BTW, there was never an oil indication light that came on throughout this whole thing) I filled the oil and turned around to go home, the bike started normally but then as i was literally a few feet from my driver the whole situation happened AGAIN!!!! >:( I pushed the bike the rest of the way and checked the oil once more and saw it was full. Oh and shifting it into neutral was almost impossible again.
Im pretty sure my clutch is properly adjusted and the transmission is in good shape. If anyone has a video of how to properly adjust the clutch, id be more than happy to watch it to double check my methods.
I called a few shops and theyre all telling me the want $2500 to replace my transmission which is ridiculous and it's clear theyre trying to cheat me. Is there anyone out there that can give me any leads on how to troubleshoot this issue. I am not going to ride the bike anymore until i fix this as not to cause any engine damage.
I'm stuck and I have no idea what to do! :dunno_black:
Thanks in advance for reading all of this!
At this point, if you have not already damaged the engine, I would be surprised.
If you are not leaking oil externally, then you are using it internaly. Simple as that
Might I suggest a little better paragraphing of your long post? That would make it easier to read.
So long, maybe a bullet point or two to break it up.
maybe i'll get flamed ... cos im usually not a fixer of things like this myself... i take mine to a mechanic ... i swear less that way :icon_rolleyes:
and i got through the mega-paragraph... but i post like that a bit... familiarity and all that .. :D
couple initial points .. and i'm not judging your methods... just making points for clarity ...
when you checked the oil ... bike on sidestand? .. bike on centrestand? .. bike just 'held level, L/R' while sitting on its wheels?
checking on sidestand vs holding level, L/R can give quite a difference in oil level readings ..
and i'm also thinking IF oil was checked on sidestand .. then MAYBE its overfull and causing a 'increasing hydrolock' situ .. more and more oil 'building up' in the upper parts of engine and forcing stoppage .. with potential damage .. but best wait for the engine gurus on that one :dunno_black:
far as i know ' suddenly dying and coasting' ..possibilities- bad electrical connections, out of fuel/low fuel, extreme heat causing engine to 'seize' (and when temp drops it can loosen again .. though without sounds and smells its odd) .. probably other stuff... but thats what my simple thinking aims at right now..
dont think there is a low oil pressure 'safety switch/cut-out' .. thats why the light is there...
you can re-start the motor when cold... but it heats up and binds?... i dont know that if its the cylinders sticking , that it would make the clutch lock up too? ... OR if the transmission was that bad/worn clutch .. that it would cause the engine to die.. not be able to stop/disengage the clutch , sure! .. but locking the 'whole thing' ? ..
any '2 stroke smoke' ?.. indicating oil being burnt up at a ferocious rate or escaping past the rings?
anyway .. enough of the horror story .. i dont know enough of the mechanical reasoning... i am just trying to reason along with you to go with the 'anything you missed/didnt think' help idea..
it could be as simple as this.... you were low on fuel ,so the bike died on a turn OR you have a pinched fuel/vaccum line .. the battery is also just on its last legs (you can have a nice bright headlight and still not enough power to start!!) , so it wouldnt start .. the clutch adjustment is out/you have a dying clutch , so it wouldn't pop out of gear or through gears .. which is just a crappy combination/coincidence ..
the oil being very low .. which you have since rectified ... may be just simultaneous! .. the rest of the above are still occurring and need tending to .. which is tedious .. but not 'dead bike dramatic' ...
OR .. its terminal .. the powerplant/drivetrain have packed it in and react accordingly after a certain amount of heat... ??
now as for 2.5K for a transmission?... tell em they're dreamin!! .. sure if you WANT a fully recondition/virtually new one! ... but if it is the engine and or the gearbox... you WILL BE ABLE to replace BOTH by buying good/reasonable condition secondhand online AND pay shipping for less than that!! .. mutter mumble mechanic/thieves/highwaymen!! mutter mumble...
i'm lucky with the 2 different mechanics that i do use... depending on whats the issue... both of them i know have a good rep for fair charges/good work .. and i trust that their work IS good... both of them used to semi-pro race bikes years ago and have so much background knowledge about 'all those things that matter' on a bike...
so .. the friend that brought the oil out to you... is that the same friend that sold you the bike?... not suggesting its the sellers issue... but have you asked him 'what might be the issue?' .. surely if he that much a 'good all around guy and wrench monkey' :thumb: and understands you are seeking info but not laying blame .. as the former owner of the bike he could provide some invaluable tips/insights ..
buying from a friend can have 'issues' .. but personally ive never hung the drama back on them ... i knew i was buying mechanical stuff ... and mechanical stuff does 'weird crap' .. so when i ask them about issues later .. its always .. 'eh mate , did it ever do this to you?.. yeah?.. how do i fix it/how did you fix it.. so it can be fixed again!.. :cheers:
The internals have obviously been starved of oil and run dry and overheated.... :dunno_black:
At this stage you can only speculate on the exact nature of the damage this will have caused but its sure to involve bearings/journals and possibly partially seized pistons.
You can start pulling covers off and trying to spanner the crank round but its not going to tell you anything new. One thing is for certain though........... its going need major surgery to fully diagnose and rectify.
Without wishing to sound condescending the oil light indicates low oil pressure, not low oil level, its a common mistake the newbies make, particularly when they have owned and ridden mainly 2 strokes and mopeds in the past.
Full professional rebuilds to manufacturers specs using OEM parts don't work out cheap but 2.5k does seem excessive.......maybe they just don't want the job and are quoting silly prices to scare you off.
Unless you are confident and good with the spanners the best option for you would be to replace the engine.
You said "1/4 full". Do you mean it had less than a liter in it? Or do you mean the oil on the dipstick reached 1/4 up on the hash mark?
How much did you have to put in it to bring up to full?
While the engine my indeed be dead, this is not the typical low oil = dead engine scenario, IMO.
+1
Read post thru slowly and didn't see any evidence of oil problem and agree with Paulcet's questions. Exactly how was oil checked and how much oil was put in bike when friend brought oil to you on the road? Was oil completely off dip stick with the bike held vertical while checking it at any time?
To me it sounds more like it ran out of gas. If tank not too low then gas not getting to engine.
Bike can be extremely difficult to get into gear or to change gear when standing still with engine not running. That doesn't indicate anything wrong with the tranny, bikes are just that way due to tranny design.
As I understood it you never saw the engine red light on when the engine was running.
Everything gsJack said, I second.
Pinched/gunked up fuel line?
Definitely make sure there isn't too much oil in it, that is just as bad. Proper technique is to run engine for 5 minutes, turn off, wait a few minutes, and on center stand, unscrew, wipe off and just place on top. If the oil was 1/4 of the way up the hashed area, then you probably aren't dealing with low oil. When I shut my bike off, often (always maybe?) the oil light will come on.
Also, in my experience, this forum is very friendly and will not flame you for being a newb, just for being a jackass. Welcome.
Graham :2guns:
One other item that bothers me... You checked the oil and found it to be 1/4 up the dipstick with the engine warm...and still rode it to Autozone to get oil? Without adding any oil? IMHO, this is asking for problems. 1/4 up the dipstick with engine cold is even more disturbing...
Out of curiosity, have you taken an MSF Basic Rider Course (BRC)? If not, you should, regardless how much riding experience you have. One thing you'll learn is the major items to check in a pre-ride inspection. (T-CLOCS (http://www.msf-usa.org/downloads/t-clocsinspectionchecklist.pdf))
One of the first things I did upon buying my bike was to make sure I always had extra oil at home, because I know that carbureted engines have a tendency to burn oil. (Parents had a 1976 Chevy Caprice until roughly 1994...and I started reading about it here before buying my GS.)
Quote from: jdoorn14 on June 03, 2013, 10:41:56 AM
One other item that bothers me... You checked the oil and found it to be 1/4 up the dipstick with the engine warm...and still rode it to Autozone to get oil? Without adding any oil? IMHO, this is asking for problems. 1/4 up the dipstick with engine cold is even more disturbing...
Out of curiosity, have you taken an MSF Basic Rider Course (BRC)? If not, you should, regardless how much riding experience you have. One thing you'll learn is the major items to check in a pre-ride inspection. (T-CLOCS (http://www.msf-usa.org/downloads/t-clocsinspectionchecklist.pdf))
One of the first things I did upon buying my bike was to make sure I always had extra oil at home, because I know that carbureted engines have a tendency to burn oil. (Parents had a 1976 Chevy Caprice until roughly 1994...and I started reading about it here before buying my GS.)
I don't think it's the fact that it's carbureated that causes the tendency to burn oil; it's that it's air-cooled. Air-cooled engines are built with larger clearances on the rings (or so I've heard) to allow the oil to cool more effectively and reduce the chance of seizing due to overheating.
Also, as long as the oil is in the hashed area of the dipstick when checked properly (warm, on the centerstand, NOT threaded in), then I wouldn't be afraid to ride it a short distance to get some more oil.
Quote from: weedahoe on June 02, 2013, 07:54:22 PM
At this point, if you have not already damaged the engine, I would be surprised.
If you are not leaking oil externally, then you are using it internaly. Simple as that
weedahoe, Im sure Im not leaking any externally, and if I was burning oil I would most likely see white exhaust smoke and different/abnormal scents coming out of there too. That's why I'm so baffled lol :dunno_black:
Quote from: adidasguy on June 02, 2013, 09:26:35 PM
Might I suggest a little better paragraphing of your long post? That would make it easier to read.
So long, maybe a bullet point or two to break it up.
Sorry about that, still new to technical forums :icon_confused:
Quote from: Janx101 on June 02, 2013, 11:46:18 PM
maybe i'll get flamed ... cos im usually not a fixer of things like this myself... i take mine to a mechanic ... i swear less that way :icon_rolleyes:
and i got through the mega-paragraph... but i post like that a bit... familiarity and all that .. :D
couple initial points .. and i'm not judging your methods... just making points for clarity ...
when you checked the oil ... bike on sidestand? .. bike on centrestand? .. bike just 'held level, L/R' while sitting on its wheels?
checking on sidestand vs holding level, L/R can give quite a difference in oil level readings ..
and i'm also thinking IF oil was checked on sidestand .. then MAYBE its overfull and causing a 'increasing hydrolock' situ .. more and more oil 'building up' in the upper parts of engine and forcing stoppage .. with potential damage .. but best wait for the engine gurus on that one :dunno_black:
far as i know ' suddenly dying and coasting' ..possibilities- bad electrical connections, out of fuel/low fuel, extreme heat causing engine to 'seize' (and when temp drops it can loosen again .. though without sounds and smells its odd) .. probably other stuff... but thats what my simple thinking aims at right now..
dont think there is a low oil pressure 'safety switch/cut-out' .. thats why the light is there...
you can re-start the motor when cold... but it heats up and binds?... i dont know that if its the cylinders sticking , that it would make the clutch lock up too? ... OR if the transmission was that bad/worn clutch .. that it would cause the engine to die.. not be able to stop/disengage the clutch , sure! .. but locking the 'whole thing' ? ..
any '2 stroke smoke' ?.. indicating oil being burnt up at a ferocious rate or escaping past the rings?
anyway .. enough of the horror story .. i dont know enough of the mechanical reasoning... i am just trying to reason along with you to go with the 'anything you missed/didnt think' help idea..
it could be as simple as this.... you were low on fuel ,so the bike died on a turn OR you have a pinched fuel/vaccum line .. the battery is also just on its last legs (you can have a nice bright headlight and still not enough power to start!!) , so it wouldnt start .. the clutch adjustment is out/you have a dying clutch , so it wouldn't pop out of gear or through gears .. which is just a crappy combination/coincidence ..
the oil being very low .. which you have since rectified ... may be just simultaneous! .. the rest of the above are still occurring and need tending to .. which is tedious .. but not 'dead bike dramatic' ...
OR .. its terminal .. the powerplant/drivetrain have packed it in and react accordingly after a certain amount of heat... ??
now as for 2.5K for a transmission?... tell em they're dreamin!! .. sure if you WANT a fully recondition/virtually new one! ... but if it is the engine and or the gearbox... you WILL BE ABLE to replace BOTH by buying good/reasonable condition secondhand online AND pay shipping for less than that!! .. mutter mumble mechanic/thieves/highwaymen!! mutter mumble...
i'm lucky with the 2 different mechanics that i do use... depending on whats the issue... both of them i know have a good rep for fair charges/good work .. and i trust that their work IS good... both of them used to semi-pro race bikes years ago and have so much background knowledge about 'all those things that matter' on a bike...
so .. the friend that brought the oil out to you... is that the same friend that sold you the bike?... not suggesting its the sellers issue... but have you asked him 'what might be the issue?' .. surely if he that much a 'good all around guy and wrench monkey' :thumb: and understands you are seeking info but not laying blame .. as the former owner of the bike he could provide some invaluable tips/insights ..
buying from a friend can have 'issues' .. but personally ive never hung the drama back on them ... i knew i was buying mechanical stuff ... and mechanical stuff does 'weird crap' .. so when i ask them about issues later .. its always .. 'eh mate , did it ever do this to you?.. yeah?.. how do i fix it/how did you fix it.. so it can be fixed again!.. :cheers:
Hey first off thanks for actually reading through the whole post rather than flaming me haha! :D
Ok to answer your questions...
Call me a newbie all you want but the bike was on the sidestand when I measured the oil. Now I know that it should be on the center stand. Now here's a counter question. Does reading it on the side stand produce a false reading that is more than or less than the actual quantity of oil? Meaning when reading it on the side stand and seeing the mark on the 1/4 point on the dipstick mean there is more than 1/4 tank or less than 1/4 tank of oil? Im hoping it means there is more because that would mean the engine at least has some oil.
Also, I just checked right now with the bike on the center stand and the reading was 1/2 full, so that rules out the question of whether or not the engine is flooded out with oil.
There is no 2 stroke smoke and all of the electrical stuff is on point. Oh and I've got 3/4 of a tank of gas in it (Im not that much of a noob :D ) I will however try to inspect the fuel line and filter (if it even has one lol, I'm more of a car guy than a bike guy when it comes to repairs as I am still new to the biker world) and look for any blocks/gunk.
The friend that brought me the oil is not the same guy that sold me the bike. And I'm certain that the issue has nothing to do with the seller.
About the point of the engine being too hot, I'm pretty sure that has to do with it because the engine was so hot after 1/4 mi ride that I burnt my fingers badly on the oil dipstick cap. This leads me to believe there is a shortage on oil somewhere because low oil = low lubrication = friction = HEAT!
Once again thanks for the help! :thumb:
Quote from: sledge on June 03, 2013, 04:04:27 AM
Without wishing to sound condescending the oil light indicates low oil pressure, not low oil level, its a common mistake the newbies make, particularly when they have owned and ridden mainly 2 strokes and mopeds in the past.
Thanks for being nice about it! I didn't know that. I will certainly keep that in mind too.
Quote from: Paulcet on June 03, 2013, 06:58:35 AM
You said "1/4 full". Do you mean it had less than a liter in it? Or do you mean the oil on the dipstick reached 1/4 up on the hash mark?
How much did you have to put in it to bring up to full?
While the engine my indeed be dead, this is not the typical low oil = dead engine scenario, IMO.
By "1/4 full" I meant the dipstick reached 1/4 up on the hash marks. In other words, the oil tank had 1/4 of the oil it should normally have.
Quote from: gsJack on June 03, 2013, 07:36:28 AM
+1
Read post thru slowly and didn't see any evidence of oil problem and agree with Paulcet's questions. Exactly how was oil checked and how much oil was put in bike when friend brought oil to you on the road? Was oil completely off dip stick with the bike held vertical while checking it at any time?
To me it sounds more like it ran out of gas. If tank not too low then gas not getting to engine.
Bike can be extremely difficult to get into gear or to change gear when standing still with engine not running. That doesn't indicate anything wrong with the tranny, bikes are just that way due to tranny design.
As I understood it you never saw the engine red light on when the engine was running.
Thanks for reading through the whole thing! I really appreciate it :D
As for the whole checking the oil thing my first reply to user "Janx101" covers all of that.
I also know that I did not run out of gas as my mechanical expertise is not THAT lacking lol. ALTHOUGH, it may be an issue with the fuel getting to the engine, so I will look into that tonight.
As for the transmission being hard to shift I didnt know that it was a normal thing. My manual car shifts easily when the engine is off, so I figured the same is true with bikes, but I guess I'm wrong.
Since you know a thing or two about bike transmissions, do you think its just a coincidence that all 3 times the bike stopped it began to lose power in second gear at about 3.5K RPM? or is this indicative of a much larger issue?
Thanks a lot man!
Quote from: jdoorn14 on June 03, 2013, 10:41:56 AM
One other item that bothers me... You checked the oil and found it to be 1/4 up the dipstick with the engine warm...and still rode it to Autozone to get oil? Without adding any oil? IMHO, this is asking for problems. 1/4 up the dipstick with engine cold is even more disturbing...
Out of curiosity, have you taken an MSF Basic Rider Course (BRC)? If not, you should, regardless how much riding experience you have. One thing you'll learn is the major items to check in a pre-ride inspection. (T-CLOCS (http://www.msf-usa.org/downloads/t-clocsinspectionchecklist.pdf))
One of the first things I did upon buying my bike was to make sure I always had extra oil at home, because I know that carbureted engines have a tendency to burn oil. (Parents had a 1976 Chevy Caprice until roughly 1994...and I started reading about it here before buying my GS.)
Yes I did take the MSF course (First few lines of my opening post) And I am aware of the whole burning oil thing, but it shouldn't be burning all of its oil in a 1mi ride! right? :dunno_black:
Quote from: bombsquad83 on June 03, 2013, 12:06:49 PM
Quote from: jdoorn14 on June 03, 2013, 10:41:56 AM
One other item that bothers me... You checked the oil and found it to be 1/4 up the dipstick with the engine warm...and still rode it to Autozone to get oil? Without adding any oil? IMHO, this is asking for problems. 1/4 up the dipstick with engine cold is even more disturbing...
Out of curiosity, have you taken an MSF Basic Rider Course (BRC)? If not, you should, regardless how much riding experience you have. One thing you'll learn is the major items to check in a pre-ride inspection. (T-CLOCS (http://www.msf-usa.org/downloads/t-clocsinspectionchecklist.pdf))
One of the first things I did upon buying my bike was to make sure I always had extra oil at home, because I know that carbureted engines have a tendency to burn oil. (Parents had a 1976 Chevy Caprice until roughly 1994...and I started reading about it here before buying my GS.)
I don't think it's the fact that it's carbureated that causes the tendency to burn oil; it's that it's air-cooled. Air-cooled engines are built with larger clearances on the rings (or so I've heard) to allow the oil to cool more effectively and reduce the chance of seizing due to overheating.
Also, as long as the oil is in the hashed area of the dipstick when checked properly (warm, on the centerstand, NOT threaded in), then I wouldn't be afraid to ride it a short distance to get some more oil.
Thanks! Agreed! :)
... Didn't mean to seem if I was saying you a noob ... But I have noticed over the years of engine problems in all kinds of vehicles .... There is a very wide spectrum of understanding things... :dunno_black: .. And sometimes it is simple stuff that gets overlooked ... That's all :) ..
As an example on this forum .... Look up fuel issues sometime ... You get ... Lines blocked/pinched/ass about problems, vacuum problems, carb problems, forgot to turn the fuel tap on problems... And the famous "it has plenty of gas cos I can hear it sloshing about" problems ....
Or ... 'Starting problems/goes click' ... You get .... Bad rotor problems, wrecked starter motor problems, bad solenoid problems, battery connection problems ..... And the famous 'but my battery should be good because I used it a week ago but now it's dead so I replaced it and magically the bike starts' ... Problems ....
I know if I have an issue with an engine ( and yeah I'm not a expert or a mechanic, just a normal person ... Well kinda normal) .. Like most people I get annoyed/agitated ... And sometimes miss simple checks ... So I try to keep it to basics to start with and eliminate simple 'causes?' ... Before I jump into a expensive cause theory .... And I remind others to do likewise as a friendly gesture...
Simple stuff I fix/fill/rectify/adjust ..... Complex stuff I get paid help with or just point and say 'sort that out' ....
:thumb:
... And a question for the lads about the oil .... Aside from having the low oil level .... And later putting oil in ... If the oil filter was completely clogged ... Would that prevent oil circulation? ... Or does the bike have a bypass line/gallery? ... Oil not circulating well would also would build up heat quick? and with a extra hot engine the oil that was moving a little would get burnt off quicker yeah?? ...
Genuine question above... I don't know on the bike ... But I know my truck (proper truck not a pickup) the filters mounts have a bypass on them if they get completely clogged .... I don't let them get that way ... But it's there.. :dunno_black:
The fact that it is cutting off in 2nd is most surely a coincidence.
Go a head and take your battery to autozone or something and have them load test it to see if it is in decent shape. Certainly check the fuel lines to make sure they are not kinked, and you may want to consider replacing the lines to be completely rule out the issue of clogged lines (this is pretty cheap, just takes time if you are new to it, i can swap out all fuel lines on my bike in 5 min start to finish and be back on the road).
Measuring the oil on the side stand would make the reading lower than in should be. If you think about it, putting it on the side stand makes the left side lower, so more oil will go to that side, and since the dipstick is on the left side, the reading will be lower. It sounds like your oil is not too high or too low (both are very bad and the main cause of gs500 engine failure), so you should be OK on the oil front.
This very well may be an electrical issue or a fuel delivery issue. If the engine runs smoothly at idle/with a bit of a rev and doesn't have any messed up sounds, the engine is probably fine.
Graham :2guns:
Owners manual sayes measure the oil from an UPRIGHT position,whilst on the sidestand......Workshop Manual sayes measure it on the centre stand(they both say bike located on a horizontal surface)
Don't guess it matters much but i prefer the Sidestand/Upright position.
PS...i noticed it was hard to accurately measure the correct oil level just after an oil change,but the unmarked rear of the dipstick gave a clearer reading.With a dremel i just scribed the upper/lower oil limits on this unchequered side. :)
Quote from: Janx101 on June 03, 2013, 02:29:41 PM
... Didn't mean to seem if I was saying you a noob ... But I have noticed over the years of engine problems in all kinds of vehicles .... There is a very wide spectrum of understanding things... :dunno_black: .. And sometimes it is simple stuff that gets overlooked ... That's all :) ..
As an example on this forum .... Look up fuel issues sometime ... You get ... Lines blocked/pinched/ass about problems, vacuum problems, carb problems, forgot to turn the fuel tap on problems... And the famous "it has plenty of gas cos I can hear it sloshing about" problems ....
Or ... 'Starting problems/goes click' ... You get .... Bad rotor problems, wrecked starter motor problems, bad solenoid problems, battery connection problems ..... And the famous 'but my battery should be good because I used it a week ago but now it's dead so I replaced it and magically the bike starts' ... Problems ....
I know if I have an issue with an engine ( and yeah I'm not a expert or a mechanic, just a normal person ... Well kinda normal) .. Like most people I get annoyed/agitated ... And sometimes miss simple checks ... So I try to keep it to basics to start with and eliminate simple 'causes?' ... Before I jump into a expensive cause theory .... And I remind others to do likewise as a friendly gesture...
Simple stuff I fix/fill/rectify/adjust ..... Complex stuff I get paid help with or just point and say 'sort that out' ....
:thumb:
... And a question for the lads about the oil .... Aside from having the low oil level .... And later putting oil in ... If the oil filter was completely clogged ... Would that prevent oil circulation? ... Or does the bike have a bypass line/gallery? ... Oil not circulating well would also would build up heat quick? and with a extra hot engine the oil that was moving a little would get burnt off quicker yeah?? ...
Genuine question above... I don't know on the bike ... But I know my truck (proper truck not a pickup) the filters mounts have a bypass on them if they get completely clogged .... I don't let them get that way ... But it's there.. :dunno_black:
I will give that a shot. Ive been spending quite some time the past few days reading everything on this forum lol. I really appreciate ur help and input and ur completely right about being frustrated and skipping the simple checks. I guess I just got freaked out when 3+ mechanics told me to trash the bike when it runs and sounds perfectly in idle. Surely if I had done makor damage I'd hear it.
Thanks again buddy! (Def + feedback)
Be safe riding out there! :cheers:
Quote from: gsatterw on June 03, 2013, 02:45:43 PM
The fact that it is cutting off in 2nd is most surely a coincidence.
Go a head and take your battery to autozone or something and have them load test it to see if it is in decent shape. Certainly check the fuel lines to make sure they are not kinked, and you may want to consider replacing the lines to be completely rule out the issue of clogged lines (this is pretty cheap, just takes time if you are new to it, i can swap out all fuel lines on my bike in 5 min start to finish and be back on the road).
Measuring the oil on the side stand would make the reading lower than in should be. If you think about it, putting it on the side stand makes the left side lower, so more oil will go to that side, and since the dipstick is on the left side, the reading will be lower. It sounds like your oil is not too high or too low (both are very bad and the main cause of gs500 engine failure), so you should be OK on the oil front.
This very well may be an electrical issue or a fuel delivery issue. If the engine runs smoothly at idle/with a bit of a rev and doesn't have any messed up sounds, the engine is probably fine.
Graham :2guns:
Im really hoping that it is a coincidence. As for the battery, I ALWAYS keep it connected to a tender and its a fairly new battery (Bought it last season) and it isnt one of those cheepo ones either. Regardless, Ill take it to autozone anyways just to rule that out. The bike doesnt have a problem turning over and on when its cool.
As for the fuel lines, I might put that off until I can find a tutorial or something to help me cuz the last thing I wanna do is create more problems. What I dont understand is that if the issue was a fuel issue, how come the bike idles nicely even with the occasional rev up to 4K RPM or so? it doesnt chop or choke at all.
Thanks dude!
In my experience on my '06 GS500F, the oil burns up because of the fact its air cooled. The gear shifting is a little hard in the stopped position, next time it has problems shifting, then try moving it back and forth. Dont worry too much about it running with no oil because it probably didnt run with no oil for that long, so there might not have been any major damage, if there was any damage at all. I ran my bike with no oil for about a good 100 miles before i filled it back up again. Probably not the smartest thing to do on my part but i was broke as hell at the time.
Quote from: lynx124 on June 03, 2013, 12:59:39 PM
Quote from: jdoorn14 on June 03, 2013, 10:41:56 AM
One other item that bothers me... You checked the oil and found it to be 1/4 up the dipstick with the engine warm...and still rode it to Autozone to get oil? Without adding any oil? IMHO, this is asking for problems. 1/4 up the dipstick with engine cold is even more disturbing...
Out of curiosity, have you taken an MSF Basic Rider Course (BRC)? If not, you should, regardless how much riding experience you have. One thing you'll learn is the major items to check in a pre-ride inspection. (T-CLOCS (http://www.msf-usa.org/downloads/t-clocsinspectionchecklist.pdf))
One of the first things I did upon buying my bike was to make sure I always had extra oil at home, because I know that carbureted engines have a tendency to burn oil. (Parents had a 1976 Chevy Caprice until roughly 1994...and I started reading about it here before buying my GS.)
Yes I did take the MSF course (First few lines of my opening post) And I am aware of the whole burning oil thing, but it shouldn't be burning all of its oil in a 1mi ride! right? :dunno_black:
Meh. Was at work when I read it the first time. Long paragraph, little punctuation/white space...easy to miss key points. But, hey, we all make mistakes.
BTW - the only way you're going to be called a squid around here is if you ride in a tank top, shorts and flip flops. Every person here was a noob at some point, both to the forum and to motorcycles in general.
Welcome to the nuthouse!
Quote from: lynx124 on June 03, 2013, 12:49:49 PM
Quote from: Paulcet on June 03, 2013, 06:58:35 AM
You said "1/4 full". Do you mean it had less than a liter in it? Or do you mean the oil on the dipstick reached 1/4 up on the hash mark?
How much did you have to put in it to bring up to full?
While the engine my indeed be dead, this is not the typical low oil = dead engine scenario, IMO.
By "1/4 full" I meant the dipstick reached 1/4 up on the hash marks. In other words, the oil tank had 1/4 of the oil it should normally have.
Ok, that means you were barely low. The stick doesn't reach all the way to the bottom. The low-full mark is only about a 1/2 liter if I recall correctly. Your bike holds approximately 3 liters. The dipstick will be dry long before there is actually NO oil in it!
Quote from: jdoorn14 on June 03, 2013, 06:24:59 PM
Quote from: lynx124 on June 03, 2013, 12:59:39 PM
Quote from: jdoorn14 on June 03, 2013, 10:41:56 AM
One other item that bothers me... You checked the oil and found it to be 1/4 up the dipstick with the engine warm...and still rode it to Autozone to get oil? Without adding any oil? IMHO, this is asking for problems. 1/4 up the dipstick with engine cold is even more disturbing...
Out of curiosity, have you taken an MSF Basic Rider Course (BRC)? If not, you should, regardless how much riding experience you have. One thing you'll learn is the major items to check in a pre-ride inspection. (T-CLOCS (http://www.msf-usa.org/downloads/t-clocsinspectionchecklist.pdf))
One of the first things I did upon buying my bike was to make sure I always had extra oil at home, because I know that carbureted engines have a tendency to burn oil. (Parents had a 1976 Chevy Caprice until roughly 1994...and I started reading about it here before buying my GS.)
Yes I did take the MSF course (First few lines of my opening post) And I am aware of the whole burning oil thing, but it shouldn't be burning all of its oil in a 1mi ride! right? :dunno_black:
Meh. Was at work when I read it the first time. Long paragraph, little punctuation/white space...easy to miss key points. But, hey, we all make mistakes.
BTW - the only way you're going to be called a squid around here is if you ride in a tank top, shorts and flip flops. Every person here was a noob at some point, both to the forum and to motorcycles in general.
Welcome to the nuthouse!
Lol thanks buddy!
Yea no tank and flip flops here. More like boots, armored jacket, full faced helmet and jeans every ride. My dad and I are big on safety cuz we know too many people who have had their lives ruined from riding with improper gear.
Quote from: lynx124 on June 03, 2013, 12:33:26 PM
Quote from: weedahoe on June 02, 2013, 07:54:22 PM
At this point, if you have not already damaged the engine, I would be surprised.
If you are not leaking oil externally, then you are using it internaly. Simple as that
weedahoe, Im sure Im not leaking any externally, and if I was burning oil I would most likely see white exhaust smoke and different/abnormal scents coming out of there too. That's why I'm so baffled lol :dunno_black:
If you were burning a lot of oil in a short time you would see it but if a little over a long time then you might not see it.
UPDATE:
Ok so I checked oil levels and restored it back to full. Fuel lines are clear as well. Clutch is properly adjusted too. There is about what looks to be about slightly less than 2 gallons of fuel left in the tank and although I dont believe this is a problem (Ill explain why in the next paragraph) I flicked the petcock to RESERVE. I took it out for a quick spin and it stopped AGAIN in SECOND GEAR! :mad: :mad: :mad:
Here's why I dont think its a fuel level issue. Most cars, when they run out of fuel, sputter before coming to a full stop. So I assume its the same with bikes. When riding, however, the engine cut off each time suddenly, without any sputtering. PLEASE correct me if my assumption is wrong. Im sure someone out there rode their bike to an empty tank and describe what it feels like to me.
In the meantime Im gonna take my car to the nearest gas station and fill up a red tank to put in my bike, just to be extra sure.
Thanks in advance for your replies!!!
The flat bottom of the tank can play tricks on you and make you think there is much more gas left than there actually is. Did you try setting the petcock on prime?
Quote from: bombsquad83 on June 04, 2013, 12:49:40 PM
The flat bottom of the tank can play tricks on you and make you think there is much more gas left than there actually is. Did you try setting the petcock on prime?
I'll give it a shot (Im about to take it out for another test ride). I figured the reserve setting would do the trick though. But again, doesnt a bike sputter when it running out of fuel?...Each time the bike stopped it was as it someone flicked the red cut off switch mid-ride... (Which i didnt do lol)
That actually sounds like an ignition problem, but it would be good to eliminate fuel issues.
I believe there have been others who have had an issue with the timing pickup when it heats up. You might search for something like that. Also, you might want to change the name of this thread.
Quote from: lynx124 on June 04, 2013, 12:55:02 PM
I'll give it a shot (Im about to take it out for another test ride). I figured the reserve setting would do the trick though. But again, doesnt a bike sputter when it running out of fuel?...Each time the bike stopped it was as it someone flicked the red cut off switch mid-ride... (Which i didnt do lol)
From your initial indication of running for a half mile then stalling I too was thinking fuel flow problem, but you're right, it would run roughly before quitting all together. I'm wondering now if there is some combination of problems with the side stand switch and the neutral safety switch that makes it cut out in 2nd gear. It's supposed to stop the engine (as if by the red kill switch) if the side stand is down and don't either have the clutch lever depressed or the engine out of gear. Of course the 2nd gear thing may be a red herring.
OK so fuel getting to the engine is completely ruled out right now. The tank has about 4 gallons in it now and I was riding with it in reserve so that every drop of fuel is accounted for.
Oil is not a problem either. Its full and new.
I took it our for a short ride around the area and never left second gear. No issues at all and more importantly, no sudden engine cut-off. The issue then came up when i was pulling into my driveway. I got onto my driveway in 1st gear and pulled up next to my open garage. I normally put the engine in neutral and then cut power before pushing it into my garage (space is tight). The problem was that with the clutch fully pulled in, the shifter WOULD NOT BUDGE! I tried EVERYTHING and nothing happened. I then cut power, (remaining in 1st gear) lightly tapped the shifter up, and I was in neutral (bike moved back and forth).
Just out of curiosity, I restarted the engine. It easily went into first gear, then when returning to neutral (or second gear) it did the same thing, it DIDNT BUDGE!
Engine off - easy shift
Engine on - freaking impossible
I am now beginning to think I have two separate problems happening to my unlucky self at the same time. I think I have some sort of electrical issue with the safety stuff AND there is some sort of issue with the shifting mechanism.
Just to be clear, the odometer reads 6.778 and the bike has never been laid down, so its in excellent condition...Im just completely lost on how to deal with this.
Quote from: bombsquad83 on June 04, 2013, 12:57:34 PM
That actually sounds like an ignition problem, but it would be good to eliminate fuel issues.
I believe there have been others who have had an issue with the timing pickup when it heats up. You might search for something like that. Also, you might want to change the name of this thread.
Not sure how to rename the thread...new to the forum :icon_neutral:
To rename the index title, edit the first posting. It won't change the title on each posting, but the index will have it changed and all new postings will have the new title.
Our bikes (well, most) don't shift well when stopped. Let the clutch slip a little or roll forward or back a little. It is the way the gears slide sideways and mesh to do the shifting. All that sounds normal.
Easiest to shift while moving. Hardest to shift when standing still.
You might need to adjust the clutch. With the engine on, there is some pressure on the drive train due to the engine running. Try the standard 3 point clutch adjustment as mentioned in the WIKI or a Haynes or Clymer manual.
Quote from: adidasguy on June 04, 2013, 02:55:26 PM
To rename the index title, edit the first posting. It won't change the title on each posting, but the index will have it changed and all new postings will have the new title.
Our bikes (well, most) don't shift well when stopped. Let the clutch slip a little or roll forward or back a little. It is the way the gears slide sideways and mesh to do the shifting. All that sounds normal.
Easiest to shift while moving. Hardest to shift when standing still.
Thanks to both of those pointers...
I just got scared because of the fact that it used to shift from 1st to neutral while standing still, no problems, all the time...sure it took a bit more foot power than when barreling down 4th gear and shifting to fifth, but this was ridiculous!
BTW r u the same adidasguy that does the videos on YouTube?
Lots of long replies. I skimmed them.
In my experience hard shifts can mean tight chain or loose chain.. So whats the chain tension like?
Hash marks on the stick is within range. There is a low and high range, but hash is within range.
Clutch cable working correctly? Not hanging, broken, etc?
What method did you follow to adjust the cable, can you link it or explain it?
He is the one and same Adidasguy, yes.
side stand switch? :dunno_black:
The GS uses oil -at least most of them can eat up to 1 quart every 500 miles. This is why it is so important to check the oil all the time. Just make it part of your start up routine when you start your day.
And by the way, your mega paragraph made my eyes bleed. But it's OK. We are an accepting bunch.
Quote from: Snake2715 on June 04, 2013, 03:07:49 PM
Lots of long replies. I skimmed them.
In my experience hard shifts can mean tight chain or loose chain.. So whats the chain tension like?
Hash marks on the stick is within range. There is a low and high range, but hash is within range.
Clutch cable working correctly? Not hanging, broken, etc?
What method did you follow to adjust the cable, can you link it or explain it?
He is the one and same Adidasguy, yes.
Same guy, huh? I owe him ALOT of thank you's starting with the fact that he taught a 5'10'' 144lbs guy like me how to put the bike on the centerstand without any help lol
The chain is properly adjusted. It is about one tick mark to the left of center.
The clutch is properly adjust from the lever end, I can assure you that. I didnt follow any links, I just found the adjustment mechanism similar to dirt bike ones.
I did learn, however that apparently there is one or two more adjustment point and yea...i have no clue where to begin with finding and checking those.
Quote from: john on June 04, 2013, 03:26:22 PM
side stand switch? :dunno_black:
The GS uses oil -at least most of them can eat up to 1 quart every 500 miles. This is why it is so important to check the oil all the time. Just make it part of your start up routine when you start your day.
And by the way, your mega paragraph made my eyes bleed. But it's OK. We are an accepting bunch.
HAHA, again im SO sorry for the mega paragraph, it WONT happen again.
Im beginning to think that it IS the side-stand switch, because looking back, every time the engine stopped on me, i was coming out of a LEFT turn...the same side as the sidestand...The unfortunate bit is that I have NO CLUE where to even begin inspecting/fixing/replacing this stuff...can some one link a tutorial or something to me.
This is the first major issue ive had with this bike so I have yet to order a manual...Im gonna do it now, but Id rather not wait until it arrives before I start fixing this...The weather this week is beautiful and im just ITCHING to ride! and of course riding my dad's cruise is a big no-no...so yea...maybe its because its a 900lbs 1100cc and im 144lbs...o well :icon_rolleyes:
Quote from: lynx124 on June 04, 2013, 03:26:36 PM
The clutch is properly adjust from the lever end, I can assure you that. I didnt follow any links, I just found the adjustment mechanism similar to dirt bike ones.
I did learn, however that apparently there is one or two more adjustment point and yea...i have no clue where to begin with finding and checking those.
Make a complete 3 point clutch adjustment to get it setup proper to start. It's important to get the pushrod freeplay right to get proper clutch action. After that minor freeplay adjustments can be made at the clutch lever adjustment. From Suzuki Shop Manual: http://www.gs500.net/gallery/data/500/GS500_clutch_adjustment1.jpg
Thank you, Ill adjust it properly tonight!
Just like you had not properly adjusted the clutch how did you adjust the chain slack?
One tick from center tells nothing as we know nothing about how your specific chain has worn and or stretched.
The suzuki swingarm marks are also known to be off from one side to another so maybe the wheel is crooked.
http://cgi.stanford.edu/~sanjayd/gs500/Maintenance/AdjustChainTension
Remember that when you sit down on the bike the chain gets tighter as well.
This is not to demean you in anyway, just want to make sure its been done correctly.
Here is another couple thread on chains:
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=56181.0
Quote from: Snake2715 on June 04, 2013, 05:14:57 PM
Just like you had not properly adjusted the clutch how did you adjust the chain slack?
One tick from center tells nothing as we know nothing about how your specific chain has worn and or stretched.
The suzuki swingarm marks are also known to be off from one side to another so maybe the wheel is crooked.
http://cgi.stanford.edu/~sanjayd/gs500/Maintenance/AdjustChainTension
Remember that when you sit down on the bike the chain gets tighter as well.
This is not to demean you in anyway, just want to make sure its been done correctly.
Here is another couple thread on chains:
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=56181.0
No I know ur not being demeaning, thank you. This is good stuff that I need to learn! So as far as the chain tension it is proper (1" of play), however I am willing to re-adjust the whole thing tomorrow just for the sake of assurance and practice. Afterall, it is a skill i will need to master anyways.
The bike is still a baby (under 7K mi) and it was never ridden too hard so a crooked wheel seems really unlikely.
Ok so after running the bike on the center stand and fiddling with the side stand I'm 95% sure that the issues I'm having is due to a faulty safety switch. I DO NOT want to bypass it because it's a safety feature and it's there for good reason. I do, however, want to fix/replace it. Any guidance in the proper direction will be EXTREMELY appreciated...
I'm just glad I'm done with the diagnosis and the prognosis looks positive...sorry...3rd year pre-med student creepin out
I'm glad for you that it is working out... dunno tech specs of side stand switch .. but i would check for loose wires, loose mount/switch etc
...
:icon_rolleyes: .. totally amazed that it didnt turn out to be starved of oil, run dry and overheated!! .. :angel: ;) :D
Note on the hard shifting... The topic has been beaten on this forum to only mention it in this case... As I understand the oil was just recently changed, correct?
If the oil level is too high, it is tough to shift and find neutral. Refer to the manual or quotes from the manual found on the forum on how to properly check oil level.
:cheers:
- Bboy
thats a cool point Bocky ... not one that i consciously remember seeing... but yeah makes sense.. too high oil is bad for other reasons than too low oil... :thumb:
Quote from: lynx124 on June 04, 2013, 03:26:36 PM
Same guy, huh? I owe him ALOT of thank you's starting with the fact that he taught a 5'10'' 144lbs guy like me how to put the bike on the centerstand without any help lol
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_D_Z-D2tzi14/S8TTPQCPA6I/AAAAAAAACwA/ZHZH-Bi8OmI/s400/ALOT2.png)
Quote from: lynx124 on June 04, 2013, 12:46:43 PM
UPDATE:
I took it out for a quick spin and it stopped AGAIN in SECOND GEAR! :mad: :mad: :mad:
I am struggling to pick out the relevant parts but........
Is it ONLY doing this when 2nd is selected?......and when it does stop does it stop dead?........Will the engine run with the other gears selected?
The F`s use a more advanced (and complicated) ignition/carb set up then the E`s that includes throttle position sensors and solenoids. I have no first hand experience of this system but believe it also uses a position switch that feeds directly back to and tells the ignition control module when 1st or 2nd is selected.
If as you are saying your bike dies when 2nd is engaged the problem is almost certainly related :dunno_black:
I'll have a new video tomorrow. Just finished a rough cut of opening up the left side of the engine to tighten down the magnet rotor/starter gear that came loose on Suzi.
Then I have to finish editing the restoration of Quin where we replaced the rear wheel and chain.
As a temporary measure, you can bypass the switch to rule it out: trace the wires back from the switch til you find the connector(s), disconnect and install a jumper wire on the wire harness side.
Ok thanks for everyone's input! Here's what I ended up doing to test the potential safety switch problem.
I set the bike up on the center stand in my driveway in the sun (warm day) and let it idle at 1.5K rpm for about 15 mins. Then I pulled in the clutch, shifted to first gear, had my brother apply some throttle, and got the back wheel to spin.
I then shook the crap out of the side stand to simulate road vibrations. Up down left right--all of it. And the engine never cut. PLENTY of free play before the engine finally cut. When it did, the "screw" that gets pushed in and closes the circuit when the side stand is up was more than half-way exposed...meaning it really takes a lot before the circuit is re-opened and the engine is killed.
I repeated the above method again, only this time in second gear and I produced similar results.
Lastly I took it out for a ride around my area. I made sharp left u-turns and several circles to the left and the engine never cut.
Now I'm not sure if I should be happy cuz it never cut or upset because I'm back to square one in which I dunno what the hell made it stop in the first place...is the GS known for electrical "flukes"?
Thanks in advance for ur pointers!
The switch might be going bad. (I have seen 2 bad side stand switches).
Another possibility (which I have sen) is the pins that hold the springs are bent in a little so the side stand does not stay tight in the up position. Bending the spring holders a little farther apart to provide more tension on the springs might help.
If you think it is the side stand switch, you can short it out at the connector under the seat. if you do hat for a day and you have no more issues then it is the side stand switch or the springs holding the side stand up.
Quote from: adidasguy on June 05, 2013, 03:33:29 PM
The switch might be going bad. (I have seen 2 bad side stand switches).
Another possibility (which I have sen) is the pins that hold the springs are bent in a little so the side stand does not stay tight in the up position. Bending the spring holders a little farther apart to provide more tension on the springs might help.
If you think it is the side stand switch, you can short it out at the connector under the seat. if you do hat for a day and you have no more issues then it is the side stand switch or the springs holding the side stand up.
I'm gonna try bending the spring holders like u said and ill also hold the actual "screw" in the bike with some heat resistant tape as to temporarily "short it out" then ill take it out for a nice long ride around town. If it doesn't die on me ill take the tape off and repeat with just the bent holders. If it doesn't die on me then, I'm good. If it does ill probably by a new switch and install it.
I really really really do not want to permanently bypass the safety as I am a fairly new rider and I need all the safety I can get. Also, my brother, (16yo) is eager to join my dad and I on the saddle so I'd love to give him my bike as his starter. Being that he's my brother I think it is only right to give him all the safety he can get---even if it's the silly side stand switch.
Thanks for the idea of bending the holders tho! I didn't think of that.
PS if you can reply with a YouTube link of the video you were talking about earlier it would be really appreciated. Your videos are frikin awesome (ESP for me--very visual learner--so the service manual sometimes doesn't cut it!)
Video link is in the video sticky thread.
Quote from: adidasguy on June 05, 2013, 04:41:46 PM
Video link is in the video sticky thread.
Thank you!
Sorry still newbie in the forum!
I went and looked at the bike and its fine. No gearcase horrors, etc...
BTW: His spotless super-sized Honda Shadow parked next to the GS makes the GS500F look tiny in comparison.
Seems the only issue the GS has is that twice (and only twice) the engine completely cut-out while leaning to the left at low speed.
A total loss of power just as you expect to lean on the throttle and pull into traffic is Unacceptable.
So...
Off with the fairings, tank, & seat till we find the true meaning of "intermittent malfunction".
As mentioned here earlier, I too am suspecting something to do with the primary ignition system (and/or various switches) since both cylinders instantly die and then recover fine.
Photos and an explanation of what we found will follow in about ten days. :cheers:
-Ej-
Quote from: Electrojake on June 08, 2013, 07:50:39 AM
I went and looked at the bike and its fine. No gearcase horrors, etc...
BTW: His spotless super-sized Honda Shadow parked next to the GS makes the GS500F look tiny in comparison.
Seems the only issue the GS has is that twice (and only twice) the engine completely cut-out while leaning to the left at low speed.
A total loss of power just as you expect to lean on the throttle and pull into traffic is Unacceptable.
So...
Off with the fairings, tank, & seat till we find the true meaning of "intermittent malfunction".
As mentioned here earlier, I too am suspecting something to do with the primary ignition system (and/or various switches) since both cylinders instantly die and then recover fine.
Photos and an explanation of what we found will follow in about ten days. :cheers:
-Ej-
Thanks again for stopping by! I really appreciate you taking time out to help me with this. I can't wait for those tires to get Rollin again!😈