Hello everyone, trust you are doing great.
Everyday I drive my bike I love it even more.
I have a question about LED headlight. The bulb that I have right now when I'm driving at night it doesn't work very well. Nothing is wrong with the bike, its just the bulb that is not to bright.I have the stock one. I live in Costa Rica where the roads are not that great and I want to see clearly if there's a hole on the road and stuff like that.
I've been seeing some bikes with LED bulb on their Headlight and it really makes a difference.
So I want to know if someone has made the conversion from the stock bulb to an LED bulb. If so, which one did you buy and where?
Thanks for the help!!
Do you have an E or F model?
You have to be careful about putting an H4 LED bulb in the stock reflector housing. Only recently have any LED bulbs been able to produce a light that works with the reflectors designed for halogen use. The bulbs themselves put out a lot of light, but in the wrong spots. Some reputable brands now make bulbs with the correct cut off and put the light in the correct place.
If you have an E model, a better solution is to buy a complete LED headlight that replaces the round headlight you already have. These are designed for LED and will have much better light output.
You can also buy LED auxiliary lights, which will put out way more light than a stock housing converted to LED.
If you have a naked model like Bluesmudge suggests, it might be best to replace the existing headlamp assembly with an approved LED module. I bought a whole new EMGO headlight bucket to put in a Truck-Lite 27270C headlamp. If you're more looking for "off-road use", or areas that aren't heavily trafficked, I like the idea of additional auxiliary lights that you can switch on and off as necessary.
Alternatively, if you haven't done it in a while, try replace your current bulb, they typically get dimmer with age.
@drabbit, there's no way you will be helping yourself by trying to get the lens on your gs to work with an led bulb. I recently replaced the stock bulb with this one http://www.powerbulbs.com/product/philips-xtreme-vision-130-h4-twin (http://www.powerbulbs.com/product/philips-xtreme-vision-130-h4-twin) and the difference is astounding, it is the brightest bulb available and the colour is excellent, not blue/white but still a bit less yellow than standard. Coming straight at you it looks like staring into the late afternoon sun. Also I have found the correct headlight position is to aim so the flat top cutoff is 2" above the centreline as projected from the midpoint of the headlamp. Usual recommendations are 2" below. This lights the road better, is more visible in the day and does NOT, cause any problems with regards to other motorists. However hi beam will burn out their retinas.
Thanks so much for the help.
I'll try to find those bulbs over here or shipped them from the states.
I still have doubts about LED bulb. Why I can't put an LED on my bike?
My gs its an E model.
EdChen and/or Blusmudge do you have a link where a can take a look at that LED appoved module??
What should I look for in a bulb to fit and work in my GS? Volts? Watts?
@drabbit17, if you still need convincing about LED in your headlamp then head off to the candlepower.com forum where they will give you excellent if sometimes belligerent and terse advice and reasons.
The best thing for you to do is to remove your headlamp which is only a 2 minute job, and have a look through the front lens, it has a very complex set of specially designed lenses, it is not symmetrical from top to bottom or from side to side. Even normal H4 bulbs very due to tiny tiny differences in the exact position of the filament. So even a slightly not perfect incandescent H4 will give you diminished performance.
Now imaging how much worse it is going to be using an LED in a housing not designed for it. Even using an LED in the taillight which is less complicated is no good, never mind about the front H4. The reflector and lens is designed so that the source of the light is a filament in the precise shape and position with light coming out in all directions, and LED is nothing like this. If you want LED then you should take the earlier advice and get an LED rig, but it would be easier cheaper quicker and probably better or at least good enough to get the H4's linked to in the first post. I notice you can get them on ebay too at a good price.
Hello User11235813.. you convinced me. I saw the bulb you said and im actually thinking on buying two sets, one for the bike and one for the car.
Thanks again for all the help!
Quote from: user11235813 on June 17, 2016, 05:18:11 PM
@drabbit, there's no way you will be helping yourself by trying to get the lens on your gs to work with an led bulb. I recently replaced the stock bulb with this one http://www.powerbulbs.com/product/philips-xtreme-vision-130-h4-twin (http://www.powerbulbs.com/product/philips-xtreme-vision-130-h4-twin) and the difference is astounding, it is the brightest bulb available and the colour is excellent, not blue/white but still a bit less yellow than standard. Coming straight at you it looks like staring into the late afternoon sun. Also I have found the correct headlight position is to aim so the flat top cutoff is 2" above the centreline as projected from the midpoint of the headlamp. Usual recommendations are 2" below. This lights the road better, is more visible in the day and does NOT, cause any problems with regards to other motorists. However hi beam will burn out their retinas.
I assume this is the replacement for an F model?
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
@G.Rossman, I can only speak for my bike which is a gs500 with a 7" standard round headlight
All GS500 models use an H4 headlight bulb.
Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.com/itm/141750726035
Any idea if this would work?
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
You could probably make it work.
However, with the advances in LED technology I don't see why anyone would bother with HID kits anymore.
The problem with most current bikes and LED's that have clear front "lens" and get all their focussing fron the reflector , is the reflectors are designed to give a correct shape from a refelctor shaped specifically for the size shape and position of the emmiters ( filaments in an incandescent bulb). Until VERY recently NO LEDS had emmiters in the right position/shape/size combination so had to be experimented with to give the best light pattern you could manage.
Recently Phillips ( et al) have releases LEDS that emulate the incandescent filament size shape and position so work pretty much straight out of the box. As well they are the latest version of LED's that have a higher efficiency/lumen output.
If you are interested here is a link to the MT07/fz07 site where I put some comparison photos of QI/HID/LED/adjusted LED before the new Phillips came out. I put the new Phillips LEDS in my car so not included and haven't got the new bulbs for the bikes yet. READ the intro, DON'T just look at the pictures, otherwise you will draw completely the wrong conclusions about the amount of light. The experiment was about pattern not luminosity. http://fz07.org/thread/3477/cyclops-led-light-question?page=5
Quote from: gregjet on July 15, 2016, 02:04:59 PM
The problem with most current bikes and LED's that have clear front "lens" and get all their focussing fron the reflector , is the reflectors are designed to give a correct shape from a refelctor shaped specifically for the size shape and position of the emmiters ( filaments in an incandescent bulb). Until VERY recently NO LEDS had emmiters in the right position/shape/size combination so had to be experimented with to give the best light pattern you could manage.
Recently Phillips ( et al) have releases LEDS that emulate the incandescent filament size shape and position so work pretty much straight out of the box. As well they are the latest version of LED's that have a higher efficiency/lumen output.
If you are interested here is a link to the MT07/fz07 site where I put some comparison photos of QI/HID/LED/adjusted LED before the new Phillips came out. I put the new Phillips LEDS in my car so not included and haven't got the new bulbs for the bikes yet. READ the intro, DON'T just look at the pictures, otherwise you will draw completely the wrong conclusions about the amount of light. The experiment was about pattern not luminosity. http://fz07.org/thread/3477/cyclops-led-light-question?page=5
Access to your link was restricted.
Yes, you must get the very recent LEDs designed with halogen reflectors in mind. Look at ADVmonster for another example.
Otherwise you will just blind oncoming traffic and throw very little light where you need it.
Blue, the LED bulbs you're talking about that are designed to work with the reflectors, would this be one that would work?
http://stores.advmonster.com/native-h4/
I know this thread is from the summer but I had some down time here at work and finally did some searching around on this subject. The description of the bulb isn't super detailed and I just wanted to make sure I was understanding what I was reading.
Maybe I just got a good bulb but being that the stock reflector on an E is mostly just a dish with a glass lens an LED should have little to no issues at all.
I had this one:
https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/led-headlight-bulbs-conversion-kits/led-headlight-kit-h4-led-headlight-bulbs-conversion-kit-with-flexible-tinned-copper-braid/2221/4993/
It worked really well in my factory E assembly.
That being said, attempting to use it in a Yamaha FZ07 and a Honda CB500F, both of which had more "geometric" reflectors, proved to be terrible. Lots of artifacts, and the high beam merely switched the pattern rather than alter light direction and brightness.
This is the headlight I have on my GSF:
http://stores.advmonster.com/h4-r3-led-headlight/
Compared to the terrible LED technology 3 or 4 years ago, it does a pretty good job of having the correct light pattern and cut off. There is still some scatter that will make the light look brighter to oncoming drivers. I'm also not a big fan of the white/blueish white color that seems to be standard for LEDs. I wish the would copy the orange halogen color temperature.
I can't say if that particular light will work in the GSE housing since I have a GSF but ADV monster says they will let you return the light if you don't like the beam pattern.
Personally, I wouldn't spend the money unless you were trying to free up capacity in the electrical system for auxiliary lighting or heated grips/clothing. I went with LED because I wanted LED auxillary lights and the total power draw of the H4-RD from ADV monster plus two 10 watt LED aux lights is similar to a single halogen H4 bulb.
@Watcher, thanks for the reply!! Awesome info, will be reading more about that tonight I'm sure.
@Bluesmudge, I too like the softer/warmer color for headlights. I completely agree when it comes to the white/blue painful lights coming at us nowadays. Seems that I hear a lot of people that hate them when they are being used by other drivers but also don't hesitate to put them in their own vehicles lol... figures :icon_rolleyes: Also, yes I was thinking of doing this for that exact reason you mentioned... freeing up capacity in the electrical system. Thanks a bunch for getting back to me!
Showbizwolf. That bulb will NOT give a proper pattern with a halogen reflector.
The light scatter from LEDS AND HID bilbs is because of emmiter size, position and orientation. The LEDs that emulate the QI's scatter exactly the same as a QI. Colour temperature is available in a range from mud ( old incandsecent colour) through semi mud ( QI Colour temperature) to decent sun temperature to ridiculous greens and blue ultra highs . They are no more blinding than other lights if focused and cut off properly. The upper end biggest problem is light scatter from water particles and country road contrast problems.
In a city, the background light will make ALL car bulbs almost irrelevant if focused properly as you eyes stop down for the extra available light.
Wait... ok so you're saying the Native H4 I linked to will NOT work ? Darnit!!
Here I was all excited because I sent ADVmonster an email last night... and they got back to me today. Said they have had other GS owners confirm that it does fit, (yes I specifically asked about the stock round E headlight), that it does work how it's supposed to, and it uses 25W instead of the stock 55W.
sigh ...well... they also said that if I did go ahead and buy one and it didn't fit, they would give me a refund (even though their policies say otherwise.)
Gonna have to think about this one some more I guess :icon_neutral:
It would be pretty quick & easy to test the light pattern (at least after you have the headlight apart).
Biz, here's the link to Sanjoh's thread on ADVRider:
http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/led-auxiliary-lights.607184/page-243
There's discussion about ALL of his products in that thread, including his H4 led replacements.
Ahhh Big Rich that's so crazy I was just reading that now!!
I'm leaning towards just taking one for the team and trying it out... not totally ready yet... but leaning that way.
Also thought this thread was interesting because it has more pictures of the bulb:
http://f650.com/forum/showthread.php?33846-Advmonster-native-H4-LED-headlight-bulb/page2&s=69702001925ef41c93f57d15acfa7a5d
Wish more people who have installed these would have posted reviews and thoughts on the actual site.
I am pretty sure Ben2Go has tried an led bulb in the E bucket.....might try and send him a pm as well.
Got it. PM'd :thumb:
Thank you to everyone so far for all your replies and input in this thread. I don't want to part with $50 if I don't have to... but I'd like to finally get to the bottom of this and maybe help people find a simple solution if it finally exists / has been developed.
(...can you guys tell it's been slow here at work lately?) :icon_razz:
I have installed a couple Advmonster H4 R3 units into the E model head light. The original Advmonster H4, I believe was design with the round Stanley style headlights in mind that are used on many bikes all around the world. The ones I have installed for people have yet to find any problems with them. The headlight will need to be adjusted afterwards. They usually need to go down a little. The rubber boot on the back of the head light will need to be cut open a little to allow for the back of the bulb.
http://stores.advmonster.com/h4-r3-led-headlight/
(http://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/n-yp39j5/t5q3au/products/214/images/747/h4r3__99139.1452030364.1280.1280.jpg?c=2)
Ahhh wonderful! The same one that Bluesmudge has had success with. Thank you for the reply Ben, many thanks.
If they were able to develop that bulb which will work with the stock housing and reflectors then I don't see why that compatibility would go away with the "new and improved" Native H4.
Based on everything I've looked up, read and all the replies here, I'll most likely give it a shot and find out for sure if it will work.
Quote from: ShowBizWolf on December 16, 2016, 07:17:15 PM
Ahhh wonderful! The same one that Bluesmudge has had success with. Thank you for the reply Ben, many thanks.
If they were able to develop that bulb which will work with the stock housing and reflectors then I don't see why that compatibility would go away with the "new and improved" Native H4.
Based on everything I've looked up, read and all the replies here, I'll most likely give it a shot and find out for sure if it will work.
You're welcome. Happy I could help.
Cheers Ben! I knew we could count on ya.
Quote from: Big Rich on December 16, 2016, 08:34:37 PM
Cheers Ben! I knew we could count on ya.
Thanks Rich. I help when I can. :thumb:
There's a ton of discussion of these things on other automotive forums.
The LED bulb will work fine... this one along with many others, including those which do a good job of switching to high-beam. I will probably eventually get one as well for my GS, unless I replace the entire reflector assy with an LED light.
The biggest complaint most people have about these is about the cutoff not being precisely the same as it is with a halogen bulb, so they are said to "blind" other drivers. I can imagine this would be a worry in a car where you are primarily using your headlights at night to make driving visible (and there are two of them) but on a motorcycle a big part of the value of the headlights is to make the motorcycle visible even during the day. Some extra light "bleeding" doesn't sound like such a bad thing especially if the lights are brighter, particularly during the day.
BTW there are many other LED H4 bulb replacements that all should work and a lot of them are half the price of this advrider one, if that makes a difference. For just about $10 more than this advrider bulb you can get an entire 7" LED replacement lamp that eliminates the issue of reflector compatibility altogether.
My only concern with this particular bulb and many of the other replacements is the limited amount of space behind the headlight reflector where all of the wiring is crammed. On my bike, it could be a challenge to fit the heat sink and little brick in there.
Quote from: mr72 on December 18, 2016, 06:03:40 AM
There's a ton of discussion of these things on other automotive forums.
The LED bulb will work fine... this one along with many others, including those which do a good job of switching to high-beam. I will probably eventually get one as well for my GS, unless I replace the entire reflector assy with an LED light.
The biggest complaint most people have about these is about the cutoff not being precisely the same as it is with a halogen bulb, so they are said to "blind" other drivers. I can imagine this would be a worry in a car where you are primarily using your headlights at night to make driving visible (and there are two of them) but on a motorcycle a big part of the value of the headlights is to make the motorcycle visible even during the day. Some extra light "bleeding" doesn't sound like such a bad thing especially if the lights are brighter, particularly during the day.
BTW there are many other LED H4 bulb replacements that all should work and a lot of them are half the price of this advrider one, if that makes a difference. For just about $10 more than this advrider bulb you can get an entire 7" LED replacement lamp that eliminates the issue of reflector compatibility altogether.
My only concern with this particular bulb and many of the other replacements is the limited amount of space behind the headlight reflector where all of the wiring is crammed. On my bike, it could be a challenge to fit the heat sink and little brick in there.
The Advmonster LED bulb has the cut off on low beam. There's many pictures of this on the advrider thread that has been linked to in this thread. Advmonster designs their LED headlights specifically for motorcycles, not cars. Automotive lighting is different from moto lighting.
HID lights blind everyone, unless they are in a projector housing. The projector is what gives the beam pattern and cut off. That is a whole different topic tho.
Quote from: mr72 on December 18, 2016, 06:03:40 AM
The LED bulb will work fine...
Thank you for the additional note of confidence!
Quote from: mr72 on December 18, 2016, 06:03:40 AM
but on a motorcycle a big part of the value of the headlights is to make the motorcycle visible even during the day. Some extra light "bleeding" doesn't sound like such a bad thing especially if the lights are brighter, particularly during the day.
That makes sense to me... good point !!
Quote from: mr72 on December 18, 2016, 06:03:40 AM
BTW there are many other LED H4 bulb replacements that all should work and a lot of them are half the price of this advrider one, if that makes a difference.
I guess I just didn't look hard enough or well enough. Could you maybe link some of these other LED H4 replacements to this thread so others can see and have options to choose from? Future searches, lurkers, etc.
Quote from: mr72 on December 18, 2016, 06:03:40 AM
For just about $10 more than this advrider bulb you can get an entire 7" LED replacement lamp that eliminates the issue of reflector compatibility altogether.
That was indeed another option that was brought up earlier in this thread. I personally didn't want to go that route however because I've done a decent amount of work to my stock headlight bucket over the years... soaking it in Evaporust, coating the inside with bedliner, doing a nice paint job on the outside of it and also paying a stupidly high amount of money for a brand new OEM chrome ring to replace my rashed and rusted one. Didn't want to just chuck it and replace after all that TLC :kiss3: But that doesn't mean others won't want to do it! I'm sure there are some quite nifty ones out there for sale.
With a replacement led lamp like this knee
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DUDR90C/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=18UX50URVZ2DT&coliid=I1XBNKSF61PZ49
You only replace the reflector and lens assembly, you keep the bucket and trim ring.
In theory anyway, I haven't tried it.
Search amazon or eBay for LED H4 bulbs and there are plenty with the emitters on one side and flexible heat sink like the advrider one that should work. The beam cutoff is from the reflector and lens, not the bulb. You just need a bulb that emits light in the same orientation and direction as the halogen bulb so it directs light into the stock reflector the same way. For cars, that seems to be kind of a tough trick but I bet it works well enough for a GS with most of the directional LEDs.
Again, in theory.
The advrider bulb is a known quantity and worth the peace of mind.
OH oh I understand what you meant now. When I first read it, I thought you meant that there are many other LED H4's that are just the single bulb like the Native is. You were talking about the bulbs with the extra wiring, heat sink, etc. Yes I did find a selection of those... like for example the one that Watcher linked to as well as the one Bluesmudge uses.
I wasn't wanting to mess with that extra stuff and that's why I was excited to discover the Native H4.
Status says shipped! Should arrive by the end of the week so I can test it out.
Just finished installing the Native H4. It fits in the stock E housing and is super bright!!! Also has a very similar cutoff as the stock bulb (I took pics before) but I want to adjust things correctly when I'm sober (it IS Christmas eve afterall ;) )
Good to hear Biz! Comparison pics would be awesome.....
Ok so I haven't had much time to mess with this but I did find out that I don't have 25' of space so I can aim the headlight. My garage is exactly 25' long... if I open the door and back the bike out into my driveway to make it 25' from the headlight to the back wall, it's not gonna be accurate because my driveway has a downhill grade to it... the bike won't be level.
I want to do this properly because tbh, I have never aimed the headlight... nor do I know for sure if my inspection mechanic ever messed with it... but I DO know that my high beam has always been worthless imo. Low beam has always been great.
Can the headlight be aimed correctly if I do.. let's say.... 20' away from the back wall? I found one YouTube video demonstrating how it can be done from 12' away... but when ya google search and get 10+ results saying 25' and only 1 that says 12' it kinda leaves me wondering :dunno_black:
Oh and also, the cutoff is (as I said before) very similar to the stock bulb... I'm just thinking it'll need adjusted down just as ben2go predicted... but again, I don't know if what I was starting with is/was correct.
Merry Christmas to everyone btw!!! :cheers:
I have never done the wall method. I find a large empty parking lot after dark and set my high beam, then check the low beam. Then take a ride to check it out. Then I adjust as need, if needed.
Thanks for the reply Ben! That's really interesting and I'm sure you're not the only one who makes it that easy :thumb:
Had some time after getting home from work earlier (only had to go in for about 3 hours) and wanted to mess with it more before heading over to my parents soon.
Following the instructions I found on motorcyclistonline.com, (with the exception of the distance thing... was at 19' instead of 25') I determined that my low beam was way too high. So was my high beam. That would explain why when I'd switch to high beam in the past it was awful... it was trying to light up the moon lol !!
Lowered it down to where it should be, based on those instructions and I'll have to take it out on a small test ride maybe later tonight when I get home or tomorrow. If it's all good then I can put the nose fairing back on and call it a success! Oh and post some pictures too ;)
Quote from: ShowBizWolf on December 25, 2016, 11:05:47 AM
Thanks for the reply Ben! That's really interesting and I'm sure you're not the only one who makes it that easy :thumb:
Had some time after getting home from work earlier (only had to go in for about 3 hours) and wanted to mess with it more before heading over to my parents soon.
Following the instructions I found on motorcyclistonline.com, (with the exception of the distance thing... was at 19' instead of 25') I determined that my low beam was way too high. So was my high beam. That would explain why when I'd switch to high beam in the past it was awful... it was trying to light up the moon lol !!
Lowered it down to where it should be, based on those instructions and I'll have to take it out on a small test ride maybe later tonight when I get home or tomorrow. If it's all good then I can put the nose fairing back on and call it a success! Oh and post some pictures too ;)
You're welcome. Good luck with the test ride.
BTW I got a new LED headlight for Christmas and installed it this afternoon. Fit and works great.
(https://goo.gl/photos/obL4eQoJHm17b8B5A)
It came from Amazon.
7 Headlight Harley, Eyourlife Jeep Wrangler Headlights Led Headlights Round With High Low Beam For Jeep Wrangler JK TJ Harley Davidson https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DUDR90C/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_.PeyybQ0GWMMT
FYI I am going to buy a pair for my Jeep. It really transformed the look of the GS! And it should really improve visibility.
Good stuff Josh! It doesn't say in the link - are they DOT approved?
Quote from: Big Rich on December 25, 2016, 08:31:26 PM- are they DOT approved?
I seriously doubt it. It appears identical to the trucklite lights, sans American brand name and claim of DOT approval.
One other interesting thing, in high beam both the lower and upper (low beam) LEDs run.
Fwiw I was after better day time visibility and lower power consumption, not really appearance or night time illumination.
That's wonderful mr72!! You and your GS got a Christmas present :D Light looks cool :cool:
I finally went for my test ride and it was amazing. My high beam actually does something helpful (really should have looked into that before now lol) and I feel like I can see a lot more in general. When I got home a bit ago I adjusted it up just a tiny bit. Now it should be perfect.
I'll upload the pictures hopefully tomorrow when I have some down time at work. Right now it's time to eat... I'm starving!!
Ok here are some comparison pictures... first the bulb next to the stock one:
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15781624_10154937278618278_4382047802647693705_n.jpg?oh=76606da8aad9696680dde0bdf76bf823&oe=59244199)
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15740877_10154937278808278_7281313530412986905_n.jpg?oh=070e7b323476a577d5ac55ca625ce413&oe=58F0507E)
A picture of the new bulb installed. Fits perfect, you can't even tell the difference!
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15698195_10154937278788278_1224678124463518030_n.jpg?oh=8bdd75c04b2dfc6997f728e863d62aba&oe=58D6B998)
The rubber grommet fits correctly too:
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15781495_10154937278903278_2155853289171673745_n.jpg?oh=d151794a4003bae25b83b41d54252798&oe=58F61FAF)
Haha whoooo bright !!
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15697641_10154937278998278_2097722480108088936_n.jpg?oh=0958275f26b1ba6d27ae2837abc2dcd7&oe=58DCA63B)
Low beam comparison. Stock bulb on the left, LED on the right. Not sure how far away I was from the garage door... I think maybe like 13'... but this was when I was thinking the aim was way off and had been for years.
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15747801_10154937278643278_6264079549223960195_n.jpg?oh=7e5f1aad018bcc335bacb22a2f11ca27&oe=59226E55)
High beam comparison. Stock bulb on the left, LED on the right. Again, still not aimed correctly. These were pics I took right after installing the bulb.
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15780890_10154937278633278_7756317725803916530_n.jpg?oh=fbe604f49a9bb158cd14079e007dbceb&oe=58F94116)
Pretty much you cannot use a LED light in a reflector housing because it was designed for Halogen.
This link below explains why an HID bulb does not work in a reflector housing - Because the HID bulb arcs differently then a standard halogen bulb.
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/conversions/conversions.html
It is similar between HID bulbs and LED bulbs, they are designed completely differently from halogen bulbs. If you want to upgrade properly, with an increase in light without an increase in current (wattage), retrofit a projector or install a standalone LED setup.
See below for links:
https://www.theretrofitsource.com/closeouts/morimoto-sealed7-bi-led-headlights-7.html
https://www.theretrofitsource.com/motorcycle-specific/hid-systems/motorcycle-stage-1-single.html
I dunno about that Urbane.... that seems like a pretty broad statement. While I'm certain upgrading the entire bucket / housing with a purpose made unit will provide the best "usable" light, many reputable manufacturers are producing H4 led bulbs that are made for older housings. Lower power consumption is a given, and there are hundreds of comparison pictures showing the light pattern of new H4 led bulbs.
A halogen bulb is made to reflect in all directions, the refelctorspecifically designed with the bulb in mind.
This is like prescription glasses. If you and the guy across the table (different bulbs) swap glasses (reflectors), the vision (output) will not be as great as it could. It could even cause you to see less!
I've tested lots of LED bulbs, and even in factory projector housings, LED bulbs just do not work as well as a good quality halogen bulb. Understand?
This is an example of a purpose made LED projector. Notice it doesn't use a drop in "bulb"? http://store.ijdmtoy.com/LED-Bi-Xenon-Headlamp-Retrofit-Mini-Projector-p/35-095.htm
I am so confused lol... gonna just come right out and say it.
I couldn't be happier with this bulb. I can see so much more during my midnight rides home, nobody so far has flashed their lights at me indicating that I'm blinding them...
I just don't understand why I shouldn't be happy with this bulb... I don't understand what about it isn't working. Sure I took a risk and decided to be the guinea pig for this bulb in the GS. I knew there was a possibility it wouldn't work but I wanted to find out for sure.
I have learned a lot through this process and feel safer at night knowing I can see a lot more than I could before. And yes I know now that my stock bulb was not aimed correctly, but with this new bulb, I can see a LOT more than I can when I'm driving my van or my car or when I borrow my dad's truck... etc..
The site I bought this from afaik set out a few years ago to design an led bulb specifically to work with the halogen reflectors. Again, that's as far as I know based on all the reading I've done. The reviews I've read are good, the link Big Rich shared with me to the advrider forum has several pages about these bulbs in various bikes working well...
Dunno where I'm going with this haha... just rambling as I'm sipping my coffee trying to get awake to start my day :embarrassed:
I'm not arguing one way or another. All I'm saying is that certain H4 led bulbs are made to be fit into housings originally made for halogen bulbs. There are plenty of accounts of people making the switch and being happy with the results.....
Hey, the proof of the pudding is in the eating.
No matter how much evidence is gathered against using LEDs in Halogen reflectors, there are multiple real world accounts of it working fine.
ShowBiz's "deigned to replace Halogen" LED and the pretty typical "LEDs on a stick" replacement bulb I used in my GS both experienced good results.
I will say the major concerns are legality and artifacting in complex and modern reflectors, but in SIMPLE reflectors there doesn't seem to be much issue.
Finally had some time to check out those links... really nifty looking stuff!! The 7" morimoto looks super cool, for sure. Wasn't able to find a price but (if I understood correctly what I was reading) it wouldn't draw less from the bike's electrics (which is one of the things I was going for.)
I like the look of that HID in the second link too... especially how they show it being installed in a Taurus !!
Woowee that last link to the LED projector... whooo that is a fancy fancy product for sure. My heart skipped a beat when I saw the price haha :embarrassed:
Very cool to see more options and learn more!! I'm still really happy with my simple $50 bulb... thankfully :thumb:
Quote from: ShowBizWolf on December 29, 2016, 04:23:42 PM
Finally had some time to check out those links... really nifty looking stuff!! The 7" morimoto looks super cool, for sure. Wasn't able to find a price but (if I understood correctly what I was reading) it wouldn't draw less from the bike's electrics (which is one of the things I was going for.)
I like the look of that HID in the second link too... especially how they show it being installed in a Taurus !!
Woowee that last link to the LED projector... whooo that is a fancy fancy product for sure. My heart skipped a beat when I saw the price haha :embarrassed:
Very cool to see more options and learn more!! I'm still really happy with my simple $50 bulb... thankfully :thumb:
My opinion may be a bit biased as I build projector headlights in my free time. I use products that have limited foreground light, and a very bright hotspot focused downroad. A lot of times when a person claims an increase in brightness, they are indeed getting an increase, just not where it should be (foreground).
Example, drive with your fog lights on while driving the car. Seems really bright! Problem though... Most of the fog light is designed to light up the 25' in front of the car, limiting down road vision. That is what we are shooting for in "good headlights as designed" with retrofits (replacements headlight systems). I'm not totally doubting the LED headlight PNP bulb, but to prove it's worth you should take a wall shot at 25' away from a flat wall on level ground. This shows headlight gurus how much you are really getting!
Here is an example of a good Mazda Setup: (http://forum.mazda6club.com/attachments/electrical/57764d1181626925-hid-glare-removal-mod-will-affect-lighting-true_hid_no_glare___even_beam_spread_00.jpg)
You would also be surprised how much light you can get out of the stock reflector with a good bulb. There are good halogens, and bad halogens: https://www.hidplanet.com/forums/forum/general-discussion/halogens/1409801-ryan-s-guide-to-halogen-bulbs
Quote from: ShowBizWolf on December 29, 2016, 04:23:42 PM
Finally had some time to check out those links... really nifty looking stuff!! The 7" morimoto looks super cool, for sure. Wasn't able to find a price but (if I understood correctly what I was reading) it wouldn't draw less from the bike's electrics (which is one of the things I was going for.)
I like the look of that HID in the second link too... especially how they show it being installed in a Taurus !!
Woowee that last link to the LED projector... whooo that is a fancy fancy product for sure. My heart skipped a beat when I saw the price haha :embarrassed:
Very cool to see more options and learn more!! I'm still really happy with my simple $50 bulb... thankfully :thumb:
The 7" headlight is only $85 on clearance, there was a casting flaw in the rear and you have to dremel/trim a bit off to get it to work in 7" housings. Good deal!
The LED projector was just one of many, but there are going to be some US made choices this spring! I know the owner of TRS and they have shown us a model for their prototype LED projector and it looks great. Pulls about 18W of current in low beam, 30W combined High+Low!
I read what some of you said above, and I see it may be an upgrade for sure, but I will always recommend a GOOD halogen replacement over LED or HID in a reflector housing.
oooooh this is so interesting... thank you for killing my boredom here at work :D
I will have to set out and find a place on the level that is 25'... I think it was in this thread where I said I don't have that much space. My garage is exactly 25' and if I opened the door and backed the bike out, it wouldn't be level anymore.
18W would be great!!! Pulling less was what my main goal was when I started reading up about all this. I was about to purchase the halogen bulb suggested on the first page of this thread by user11235813 (for brightness purposes) but then I realized it probably wouldn't be pulling less from the electric system so I didn't get it. I'm guessing that's what you mean by a good halogen?
My car doesn't have fog lights... neither does the Turtle Van... but my dad's truck does and they work really well!! The ones on my mom's Jeep however... that's another story lol
Oh yeah, that's what I wanted to ask... are there "good halogen replacements" that have less pull than the stock bulb?
PS... those PITA captchas should be gone for you now :thumb:
Quote from: ShowBizWolf on December 29, 2016, 05:16:35 PM
oooooh this is so interesting... thank you for killing my boredom here at work :D
I will have to set out and find a place on the level that is 25'... I think it was in this thread where I said I don't have that much space. My garage is exactly 25' and if I opened the door and backed the bike out, it wouldn't be level anymore.
18W would be great!!! Pulling less was what my main goal was when I started reading up about all this. I was about to purchase the halogen bulb suggested on the first page of this thread by user11235813 (for brightness purposes) but then I realized it probably wouldn't be pulling less from the electric system so I didn't get it. I'm guessing that's what you mean by a good halogen?
My car doesn't have fog lights... neither does the Turtle Van... but my dad's truck does and they work really well!! The ones on my mom's Jeep however... that's another story lol
Oh yeah, that's what I wanted to ask... are there "good halogen replacements" that have less pull than the stock bulb?
PS... those PITA captchas should be gone for you now :thumb:
So if you want less current ("Pull" in your words), you have to decrease the wattage. In normal lighting, just use an LED where you would normally used a halogen. A 55W halogen bulb is fairly standard across the board for a headlight. 55W Low beam, 60W high beam.
The reason for LED in a bulb (I don't like them in headlights) that replaces a halogen, is to save current (WATTS!).
So for example, I used to have 25 WATT HALOGEN turn signal bulbs in the rear. I wanted to replace them with LED to get better on/off and make the turn signal stand out better. In order to get the same amount of light as the stock halogen
with an LED, I would have to order an LED bulb with 25W of "Light."
This is the same brightness, BUT the LED draws less current (WATTS). http://www.ebay.com/itm/122045128497?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
The one I ordered for my project was a 30W bulb, but under testing pulls 0.6 watts when the bulb is on. Much much less then the 25 W stock!
So if you are looking for more power (heated gear, chargers, etc), you should probably start with replacing bulb that are always on. Example, instrument panels bulbs, Rear facing brake light and running light bulbs, license plate light.
The Captchas are finally gone!!!!All halogen bulbs worth their weight in glass should pull right around their printed wattage. As I said above, 55W bulb should pull 55W when on and running. A "Good Halogen" bulb just uses the same current (wattage) to put out more light!
An LED bulb usually pulls less wattage then the output (25W output, 0.6W draw in my case!).
Switching from one halogen bulb to another WILL NOT DECREASE LOAD (WATTAGE) UNLESS YOU DROP THE WATTAGE (40W headlight for example.
But you will see less)
I can explain how the draw of an HID projector works if you are interested, but it draws most at start, and least when warm.... HID bulbs are weird.
tl;dr, change out auxiliary bulbs to save wattage for other purposes (the ones that are always on besides the headlight).
Ahhh okay this makes a lot of sense to me. I'm glad that what I've discovered on my own so far is what you just explained. Awesome !!!!
Thank you for taking the time and yes I would love to know more about the draw of an HID projector.
All of the lights on my GS have been swapped over to LED (did the gauges, dash indicators and tail lights in the spring!) with the exception of the signals and the signal indicator on the dash. That's a whole 'nother ball of wax on this forum as to how to get them to work properly and I never wanted to mess with it tbh. Solutions have been found, however!!
Quote from: ShowBizWolf on December 29, 2016, 06:30:34 PM
Ahhh okay this makes a lot of sense to me. I'm glad that what I've discovered on my own so far is what you just explained. Awesome !!!!
Thank you for taking the time and yes I would love to know more about the draw of an HID projector.
All of the lights on my GS have been swapped over to LED (did the gauges, dash indicators and tail lights in the spring!) with the exception of the signals and the signal indicator on the dash. That's a whole 'nother ball of wax on this forum as to how to get them to work properly and I never wanted to mess with it tbh. Solutions have been found, however!!
It can't be that hard can it? Just swap the mechanical flasher relay to a electronic adjustable flasher relay: https://youtu.be/gwq4kTjW3m8?t=1m3s
Read this to learn more about HID: http://www.diodedynamics.com/store/research-1/research-hid.html
Diode Dynamics has a lot of really cool information on their research portion of their website.
Here is a paragraph quote that sums up power draw quite well:
Quote"How Xenon Lights Work Unlike halogen light sources, Xenon, or High-Intensity Discharge (HID) lights do not have a conventional metal filament. The Xenon bulb is filled with noble gases like Xenon (hence its name). A high-voltage electric charge creates an arc between the two tungsten electrodes, igniting the Xenon gas and creating light. Xenon lights require about 20,000 volts to ignite the gas, dropping to a steady 85 volts once the light is illuminated. The current is produced and maintained by a ballast unit that steps up the vehicle’s 12-volt power supply to the necessary voltage. Xenon light sources produce a light that more closely resembles natural sunlight. Research has shown that the physical makeup of the HID light beam makes it easier for the human eye to see objects in low-light conditions. " - http://www.genesislamp.com/hidlibufa.html
In summary, the draw from HID is greatest at first when igniting the bulb at 20kV (20,000 VOLTS!), but as the bulb warms up the voltage (Volts) will step down to 85V.
Good aftermarket relays have a minor delay to ignite the HID bulb, so that your bike has a chance to start and provide power to necessary systems before focusing on lighting up what's in front (spark anyone?).
Hope you learned something today :thumb:.
Quote from: urbane on December 29, 2016, 09:28:35 PM
Quote from: ShowBizWolf on December 29, 2016, 06:30:34 PM
Ahhh okay this makes a lot of sense to me. I'm glad that what I've discovered on my own so far is what you just explained. Awesome !!!!
Thank you for taking the time and yes I would love to know more about the draw of an HID projector.
All of the lights on my GS have been swapped over to LED (did the gauges, dash indicators and tail lights in the spring!) with the exception of the signals and the signal indicator on the dash. That's a whole 'nother ball of wax on this forum as to how to get them to work properly and I never wanted to mess with it tbh. Solutions have been found, however!!
It can't be that hard can it? Just swap the mechanical flasher relay to a electronic adjustable flasher relay: https://youtu.be/gwq4kTjW3m8?t=1m3s
Haha, I'm far from an expert when it comes to electrics, but it seems to be more difficult than that. In addition to installing an LED flasher (or resistors, as some have found successful), you also have to install diodes...something related to the way the dash indicators are wired.
There were LED turn signals on my bike when I bought it, but they weren't wired correctly. I'll be fixing that sometime this winter when I get around to buying the flasher and diodes.
Since the thread has kinda gone this direction, I did find this short writeup the other day and I found it interesting. Ben, if you're still watching all this, did you use LED bulbs in this thread? It's kinda unclear at the beginning:
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=42477.msg477506#msg477506
Shows a really simple fix to the signal problem (as simple as swapping the relay as urbane suggested) but then on down the thread some people said it's not that simple after all.
rscottlow, good luck with your signals!!! Each time there's a success on this forum it makes me wanna try to do it myself.
Quote from: ShowBizWolf on December 30, 2016, 12:43:05 PM
Since the thread has kinda gone this direction, I did find this short writeup the other day and I found it interesting. Ben, if you're still watching all this, did you use LED bulbs in this thread? It's kinda unclear at the beginning:
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=42477.msg477506#msg477506
Shows a really simple fix to the signal problem (as simple as swapping the relay as urbane suggested) but then on down the thread some people said it's not that simple after all.
rscottlow, good luck with your signals!!! Each time there's a success on this forum it makes me wanna try to do it myself.
No. My lights weren't LEDs. I'm not sure what bulb was in them. I do know they were some standard incandescent bulb. I used the Chinese Buell knock off turn signals from ebay. I still have my GS that I did all the modifications on, plus five more. Soon I'll be picking up a few more, I hope. I ran into wiring problems with my GS and squirreled it away about 5 or 6 years ago. I have 8 bikes total so I rarely rode it anyway.
Quote from: ShowBizWolf on December 30, 2016, 12:43:05 PM
Since the thread has kinda gone this direction, I did find this short writeup the other day and I found it interesting. Ben, if you're still watching all this, did you use LED bulbs in this thread? It's kinda unclear at the beginning:
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=42477.msg477506#msg477506
Shows a really simple fix to the signal problem (as simple as swapping the relay as urbane suggested) but then on down the thread some people said it's not that simple after all.
rscottlow, good luck with your signals!!! Each time there's a success on this forum it makes me wanna try to do it myself.
Thanks ShowBiz. There are quite a few threads that I have saved links to, because I'm going to have to get around to it eventually. My bike was dropped at least once before I purchased it, and the PO replaced the bar ends, passenger pegs, and signals, but the signals weren't wired up correctly. I've signaled by hand for my entire first year on a bike...I think it's going to take me a while to learn to use them when I finally get them working. I'll let you know how it goes when I finally get around to giving it a shot. Maybe next weekend...
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Quote from: urbane on December 29, 2016, 09:28:35 PM
It can't be that hard can it? Just swap the mechanical flasher relay to a electronic adjustable flasher relay: https://youtu.be/gwq4kTjW3m8?t=1m3s
It's not nearly that simple because of the way the dash indicator is wired. Not hard but not just a relay swap.
Quote
Hope you learned something today :thumb:.
Yeah but we are talking LEDs here not xenon or projectors.
A properly designed led H4 replacement will perform just as well as a halogen and possibly better depending on the reflector and lens. And they will last way longer than a halogen bulb and don't suffer changes in light color or intensity based on battery charge state like halogens do. But frankly most car drivers who switch to LEDs are just looking for that obnoxious blue color, and most who aren't are actually looking for a beam with more spread than the halogen so strict reflector compatibly is not the ultimate goal.
Well I have to take credit for that one... going off topic into xenon and projectors. When urbane asked if I wanted to know more about them I said yes. :oops:
I do have another question now... and since I kinda took over drabbit's thread and the dash indicator has been brought up, I'm gonna ask it here.
If only the actual signals were replaced with LED's and the indicator in the dash was left stock, would the flasher relay swap work?
And just to be clear, I am NOT asking because it's something I would do. I'm just curious.
Quote from: ShowBizWolf on December 31, 2016, 01:56:57 PM
Well I have to take credit for that one... going off topic into xenon and projectors. When urbane asked if I wanted to know more about them I said yes. :oops:
I do have another question now... and since I kinda took over drabbit's thread and the dash indicator has been brought up, I'm gonna ask it here.
If only the actual signals were replaced with LED's and the indicator in the dash was left stock, would the flasher relay swap work?
And just to be clear, I am NOT asking because it's something I would do. I'm just curious.
I was under the impression that if you swap the dash indicators with LED's, that's the only way to make the flasher relay swap work by itself...but you have to install two LED's in the turn signal dash indicator space (one for each side). The other option is to add diodes, swap the flasher, and leave the existing dash indicators. At least I think that's what I understand based on others' experiences.
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Quote from: rscottlow on December 31, 2016, 02:32:38 PM
Quote from: ShowBizWolf on December 31, 2016, 01:56:57 PM
If only the actual signals were replaced with LED's and the indicator in the dash was left stock, would the flasher relay swap work?
I was under the impression that if you swap the dash indicators with LED's, that's the only way to make the flasher relay swap work by itself...but you have to install two LED's in the turn signal dash indicator space (one for each side). The other option is to add diodes, swap the flasher, and leave the existing dash indicators.
If you swap the turn signals for LEDs with no other changes, then you will either get fast-blink, always-on or never-on from the turn signals.
If you swap the flasher relay without modifying the dash indicator, then you will wind up getting all four turn signals blinking whenever either turn signal is activated.
The solution then is to either replace the turn signal indicator in the dash with two LEDs and some rewiring, or add two diodes and do some rewiring, in which case you can use either the stock indicator or an LED indicator.
Hope this helps.
Quote from: mr72 on January 02, 2017, 08:33:33 AM
Quote from: rscottlow on December 31, 2016, 02:32:38 PM
Quote from: ShowBizWolf on December 31, 2016, 01:56:57 PM
If only the actual signals were replaced with LED's and the indicator in the dash was left stock, would the flasher relay swap work?
I was under the impression that if you swap the dash indicators with LED's, that's the only way to make the flasher relay swap work by itself...but you have to install two LED's in the turn signal dash indicator space (one for each side). The other option is to add diodes, swap the flasher, and leave the existing dash indicators.
If you swap the turn signals for LEDs with no other changes, then you will either get fast-blink, always-on or never-on from the turn signals.
If you swap the flasher relay without modifying the dash indicator, then you will wind up getting all four turn signals blinking whenever either turn signal is activated.
The solution then is to either replace the turn signal indicator in the dash with two LEDs and some rewiring, or add two diodes and do some rewiring, in which case you can use either the stock indicator or an LED indicator.
Hope this helps.
Absolutely, thanks. This is what I was thinking. Weather permitting, I'll probably get the GS out and try to get the turn signals wired up this weekend.
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Quote from: rscottlow on January 02, 2017, 06:26:38 PM
Weather permitting, I'll probably get the GS out and try to get the turn signals wired up this weekend.
Remember you will need a solid-state flasher. IMHO the two-diodes method of rewiring the dash indicator is way better, since then you can still use a standard bulb and the original socket/plug etc. Basically maintenance is just like stock rather than some cobbled-together two-LED hack. IMHO.
My problem is my LED turn signals are not bright enough. They have a built-in resistor somewhere that I need to swap for a smaller value. I may try to hack into them and see if I can modify them.
So I really haven't dug into mine at all yet. All I know is that the signals were not functioning correctly when I bought the bike. So the job may have been partially done, but not completely...i.e. the flasher may have been replaced with an LED flasher, or other mods may have been made. Regardless, the turn signals do not work as they should. Since I won't be riding again until spring, I'm going to start tearing things down this afternoon to find out what has been done/what needs to be done. As I've said before, I don't know much about electrics, but I'll compare the wiring to the diagram as best I can and go from there. Now that the holidays are past, I've got disposable time and income that I can devote to my GS :D
Yeah just ping me if you wind up getting stuck. I made an off the shelf three-pin relay from Autozone work. Just start with the relay/flasher and work from there.
If you don't have the right relay/flasher, then either the LEDs will not come on at all (like mine), they will blink really fast (some others), or they will come on and stay on solid. So if your turn signals do something like this, then the odds are the relay/flasher is at fault.
Cool, I appreciate the help. Aside from changing the oil in both cars on saturday, I have most of the day available for working on the GS. I'm hoping to get this working right...
Hopefully one of the cars is not a Fiat 500... took me like 3 hours to change the oil in my daughter's! :) I swear they never considered that the oil filter may have to be removed while the engine is in the car.
Quote from: mr72 on January 03, 2017, 08:34:24 AM
Hopefully one of the cars is not a Fiat 500... took me like 3 hours to change the oil in my daughter's! :) I swear they never considered that the oil filter may have to be removed while the engine is in the car.
Haha nope. I drive an '04 Ranger and my wife a '14 CX-5. Both are easy oil changes. I was actually considering a Jeep Renegade to replace my Ranger, but my dad said they're built on the Fiat 500 platform. Now I'm not sure whether or not I want to do that. I really need some tow capacity, and without buying the Trailhawk, I'm not sure I'll be able to pull anything.
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This is way OT of this forum and thread but I pay attention to Jeep and Fiat a little bit since I own one of each. The Renegade looks like a pretty decent vehicle and I'd recommend it to people who want a small, capable crossover. It's built on the same platform as the Fiat 500X, and remember Fiat has been building cars on this platform for a long, long time. They just haven't been sold in the USA until recently. But it's a very mature platform, ubiquitous in Europe. The alternative for FCA would be to build a crossover on some old Chrysler platform, which are all junk by comparison. I'll take a Fiat 500 any day over a Neon.
OTOH my Jeep (Wrangler Unlimited) is kind of a piece of junk from a reliability and quality perspective. But it happens to be the only vehicle on the market with this particular combination of features so that's why I own it. The only thing worse than Chrysler quality is their dealer service. At least a Wrangler is super simple to work on and has a huge supply of aftermarket parts. I bought mine new so I figure the warranty will keep me from regretting it too badly.
If you search there's a really cool video of some guys taking the Renegade Trailhawk on Black Bear Pass in the rockies. It'll shock you what that little Jeep can do. You won't find a CR-V or Rav4 cracking Black Bear Pass.
Yeah, I don't have any doubt that the Renegade is a decent vehicle. I like them a lot, but I don't think it will meet my needs. Honestly, I probably need to have two vehicles to do everything I need, unless I spend 30,000+ on a newer F150 crew cab.
Right now I'm driving a 2004 Ranger Edge 4x4, 4.0 V6. It does everything I need, except it doesn't have full back seat for my kids.
I need a vehicle that I can drive to and from work every day (15 mi +/- each direction), get decent gas mileage, pick up my kids from daycare (a 4 year old and a 1 year old, so I need room for carseats), and be able to pull stuff on the weekends (a travel trailer, or random trailer for recreational purposes). My problem with the renegade is that the less expensive models have a smaller engine which equates to less tow capacity. And they're new enough that I can't pick up a trailhawk on the secondary market at a low enough cost to be worth it.
My Ranger has roughly 230,000 miles on it now, so I'll need to purchase a replacement sooner or later, but I'm putting it off as long as I can. It's a reliable truck, but it won't fulfill my needs long enough to keep it around...
Scott, sounds to me like a used Honda Pilot, a Mazda CX-9 or just about any other midsize crossover would work for you, even an Explorer, if you like American cars better. Depending on how much rear seat space you REALLY need (not much with two small children), and how much you actually tow, a compact SUV will probably work fine. A Kia Sportage, Hyundai Tuscon, Mazda CX-5, etc. all are rated to two 2,000 lb, same as the Renegade or Cherokee with the 2.4L engine. The Renegade will probably smoke them in true off-road performance but this was not on your list of needs. A Cherokee with the 3.2L V6 and towing package will tow 4500 lb, and a Honda Pilot will get up to 5000 lb depending on the package. A Mazda CX-9 will match my Wrangler at 3500 lb and is a less homogenized car than a Pilot.
Just some things to consider. With a new Jeep, you are paying a lot for that little "Trail Rated" badge no matter which model you buy. Jeep quality and reliability is historically pretty terrible, but the Renegade might be a little better since it's not originally a Chrysler product. None of these gets anywhere close to the quality and dependability of a Mazda, Honda, Toyota, etc.
I really like my wife's CX-5, and it has plenty of room for the kids. But we're looking at buying a travel trailer within the next year or two, and I've found that those are quite heavy. You almost need to have a pickup truck for anything larger than a small pop-up camper.
The off-road performance is of some importance to me...I like the Ranger because I deer hunt, and it's nice to be able to toss a deer in the back. But that can be accomplished with a cargo carrier too. I really like the Wranglers, but they are all expensive and they don't have a ton of tow capacity.
Honestly, I'll probably try to get another year out of my Ranger. Even though it's not ideal for transporting my kids, I don't have a car payment on it. The maintenance costs are mounting, and it needs a set of tires, but it's still running well. And when I turn 30 next summer I'm owed a payment from a structured settlement resulting from a major car accident that I was a victim of 10+ years ago, which will cover a big down payment on a new vehicle...
A Wrangler Unlimited has a 3500 lb towing capacity but surprisingly little usable cargo space. Other Jeeps have up to 5000 lb towing capacity ... the Wrangler's problem is brakes and wheelbase... maybe that and the transmission. Anyway, a Wrangler is like the Harley or Ducati of SUVs. It's outrageously unreliable, uncomfortable, expensive and gauche if you don't either a) actually need the serious off-road capability or b) have an emotional reason to drive a "real" Jeep. In other words, if you're not off-roading and your ego doesn't need a Jeep to feel tough, then there are way better choices, like a CX-9 or a Honda Pilot.
Back before I was married, I had a Wrangler. It was a great vehicle for me at the time: convertible in the summer, 4wd in the winter, and (barely) enough towing capacity to pull my boat to the lake. Trying to get a car seat and a newborn in the back? Forget about it. My son has a weird fascination with Wranglers now though..... I tell him that will be my next vehicle.
But my wife & I just bought a Renegade a couple weeks ago. Great little SUV for her. I wouldn't think about towing anything with it though.
You all took this farther off topic then I did!
So I swapped in the electronic relay flasher yesterday into her bike and we actually got the turn signals to work at the stock rate, until we used power from somewhere else on the bike... Hit the brakes, no more blinker LOL!
So I will have to do the diode mod. Too bad - I need to head to Radio Shack anyways!
The benefit of some LED flashers is that they have an adjustable rate. Being able to adjust your flash rate is very beneficial to suit your preference.
BTW I noticed that my new headlight was aimed all wrong, so I went to the effort to try and aim it but I don't have a really good way to do it the "ordinary" way.
In the process of riding at night a few times and evaluating the headlight aiming I noticed that my headlight has a couple of quirks:
1. there's a vertical bright spot right in the center of the beam that I'm sure some people would really complain about, light-pattern purists...
2. In low-beam, there's a noticeable gap in solid light between the front of the bike and say 10-20 feet out. It's like a lower cutoff, but it's not really cutoff. I'm sure it's a result of the horizonal "dam" that separates the high-beam reflector from the low-beam. I think there's a chance I still have (had) my light aimed too high and that is revealing this not-so-bright area more than it should, but...
3. when the "high beam" is selected, both low and high are on. I am sure they are internally jumpered. The odd thing is the high beam fills in the directly-in-front gap that the low-beam has, as well as extending the cutoff quite a bit so you see both nearer and further. This light with the high beam on is truly magnificent.
This light is astonishingly brighter than the halogen was. Given that, I think I will probably replace the headlights in my Jeep with a pair of the same lights.
It has a dead spot because it's an LED :deadbeathorse:.
LEDs are directional, only putting out forward light. Unless a housing is specifically designed for LED use, you are going to have abnormally dark sections and abnormally light sections of your headlight output.
Brighter =/= better vision. Usually just more foreground light (less light where it needs to be, down road).
Ahh wow, that is crazy! I kinda expected mr72 to have better results than me tbh in this endeavor. He went and purchased a whole LED enclosed light thing (Idk what to call it lol) that fits into the stock bucket.... it omits all the halogen reflectors and all that hooplah cuz it's not just a bulb.
mr72 I'm glad to know that you are overall happy with it though!
Quote from: urbane on January 12, 2017, 07:29:29 PM
It has a dead spot because it's an LED :deadbeathorse:.
LEDs are directional, only putting out forward light. Unless a housing is specifically designed for LED use, you are going to have abnormally dark sections and abnormally light sections of your headlight output.
This is buried somewhere else in the thread.
This is a dedicated LED lamp assembly, not just a "directional" bulb. The whole lamp assembly is basically two "halves" upper and lower, and the upper half is the low-beam (with reflector) and lower is the high beam (with reflector). It's a reasonably industry-standard design, one of two very common round LED lamp designs that I am aware of in common use on public-road motor vehicles (the other being LEDs in projector sub-housings). The lower-side "cutoff" on my bulbs is totally by design and intentional, or I should say, an accepted side effect of the design, because in a car you don't actually see the part of the road that is left dark with my lights due to the angle of the hood and whatever that blocks view of that space anyway but on a motorcycle obviously you can see immediately in front of the wheel.
And FWIW halogen bulbs are also "directional" in a similar fashion to LED replacements by virtue of internally installed reflectors, coatings on the glass, etc. The designers have to work to try and make them directional, since they must be made directional in order to work in a reflector housing. That's precisely how low/high switching works in an H4, and the whole objective is to direct the light into the correct part of the reflector. LEDs are not intrinsically inferior to halogen bulbs in a reflector housing this way, but they just have to be designed to be directional in the same fashion as the halogen bulb they are replacing. A halogen bulb will typically "leak" more light where not intended into the reflector than an LED will, so often when you put a properly-designed LED bulb replacement in a halogen reflector assembly (like SBW did) then you wind up with a more properly directional and controlled beam than with halogens, the light coverage you "lose" is because the LEDs don't leak light where they shouldn't like the halogens do, plus the LEDs have much closer tolerances on their directivity than the sort of hacked-together H4 halogen bulbs.
Ah I see now. Thank you for putting in a proper reflector setup. The term you are looking for is called foreground - or the first 25' of light in front of the bike. If there is a lot of foreground it reduces your distance vision, which a bucket ASSEMBLY should not have a problem with.
"This is the thread that nev-ver endsss yes it goes on and on my friends..." haha grew up watching Lamb Chop :icon_rolleyes:
Anyway, just saw this on sbl's site... eye-catching NEW PRODUCT thingy on the home page... not listed for single bulb sale, just a "kit" with 2 but is interesting to see these H4s:
https://www.superbrightleds.com/cat/led-headlight-bulbs-conversion-kits/filter/Stock,New_Products,,5:Base_Type,H4,1,4932:
Quote from: urbane on January 14, 2017, 11:01:22 AM
Ah I see now. Thank you for putting in a proper reflector setup. The term you are looking for is called foreground - or the first 25' of light in front of the bike. If there is a lot of foreground it reduces your distance vision, which a bucket ASSEMBLY should not have a problem with.
What I mean is there is a pronounced limit to the foreground light, by virtue of the lamp assembly's design. It has sort of a "divider" between the upper and lower half sections, with the lower half being the high beam and upper being low beam. So the low beam bottom edge is blocked by this divider.
I don't think it's any big deal and I am sure it's intentional and by design. But I wouldn't mind being able to see a little better right in front of the bike. Probably won't make a difference while actually riding at night but this was just my first impression, far more pronounced since I didn't have the lights really aimed correctly (too high). On my mountain bike, for example, I use LED lights and I can see the shadow of my front tire. Of course on a mountain bike, it's an entirely different problem to solve, the light is aimed very differently. It only has to work up to 20mph and it absolutely has to provide detail of what is immediately going under the wheels at 3 mph.
Quote from: mr72 on January 16, 2017, 03:39:51 PM
Quote from: urbane on January 14, 2017, 11:01:22 AM
Ah I see now. Thank you for putting in a proper reflector setup. The term you are looking for is called foreground - or the first 25' of light in front of the bike. If there is a lot of foreground it reduces your distance vision, which a bucket ASSEMBLY should not have a problem with.
What I mean is there is a pronounced limit to the foreground light, by virtue of the lamp assembly's design. It has sort of a "divider" between the upper and lower half sections, with the lower half being the high beam and upper being low beam. So the low beam bottom edge is blocked by this divider.
I don't think it's any big deal and I am sure it's intentional and by design. But I wouldn't mind being able to see a little better right in front of the bike. Probably won't make a difference while actually riding at night but this was just my first impression, far more pronounced since I didn't have the lights really aimed correctly (too high). On my mountain bike, for example, I use LED lights and I can see the shadow of my front tire. Of course on a mountain bike, it's an entirely different problem to solve, the light is aimed very differently. It only has to work up to 20mph and it absolutely has to provide detail of what is immediately going under the wheels at 3 mph.
Would you mind going out at night, turning on the bike about 25' from a wall ( garage works ) on level ground and snapping a photo? This will help me help you, after seeing your output!
Like this: http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q146/kenaccord/DSC05804_small.jpg
I don't have a way to do that. I have no place to go where it's 25' of level ground to a wall. If I find one, I'll do it.
In the meantime I am adjusting the headlight on the fly while riding.
Quote from: mr72 on January 25, 2017, 10:33:21 AM
I don't have a way to do that. I have no place to go where it's 25' of level ground to a wall. If I find one, I'll do it.
In the meantime I am adjusting the headlight on the fly while riding.
Cool. It just gives me a general idea of your output. Hope you can get it soon :thumb:.
I did an LED conversion tonight, but I used what appears to be a reflectorless LED housing. Beam patterns seem to be determined by the optics. This is a JW Speaker 8790 Adaptive headlight unit on my 2004 GS500. I don't have adequate space to properly aim the unit at the moment, but I will follow up with more information and photos in a few days if anyone is interested. In the meantime, here's a shot of it with just the parking light illuminated because it looks cool.
(http://i.imgur.com/AfRbSbxh.jpg)
Wow neat!!! I also like your aux lights down by the forks 8)
The auxillary lights are the MM10 kit from Mondo Moto's, and they've been mounted for several years. Great lights for the price and a huge improvement in seeing and being seen when I was running the halogen housing with the diffuser lens.
I aimed my JW Speaker unit at 17 feet per the wiki and went for a test ride this evening. The adaptive feature is really cool and gave me a bit more confidence taking curves at speed. Output is leaps and bounds better than the halogen bulb and diffuser lens. As promised previously, here are the patterns from 25 feet.
Low beam:
(http://i.imgur.com/mwa3Ew1h.jpg)
High beam:
(http://i.imgur.com/HgYbJxah.jpg)
(same as my reply in the other thread lol) Cool beans!!! :cool:
Oh oh yeah I wanted to ask, this headlight unit pulls less from the battery than the stock halogen setup?
Here's the manufacturer specifications for current draw:
2.90A @ 13.5V DC (High Beam)
1.90A @ 13.5V DC (Low Beam)
3.50A @ 13.5V DC (Low Beam at Full Lean)
0.092A @ 13.5V DC (Front Position)
Thanks!! If I'm not mistaken, it's very very close to the bulb I am using! How much did you buy your JW Speaker for? When I google searched it, my eyeballs about fell outta my head :icon_eek: :laugh:
Really a sweet lookin' light :thumb:
Quote from: k.rollin on March 05, 2017, 01:10:47 AM
Here's the manufacturer specifications for current draw:
2.90A @ 13.5V DC (High Beam)
1.90A @ 13.5V DC (Low Beam)
3.50A @ 13.5V DC (Low Beam at Full Lean)
0.092A @ 13.5V DC (Front Position)
It's marginally better than the OE halogen bulb at 35 low/55 high watts. I wanna do the math.
Amps x volts = watts
OE is rated at 12v nominal as voltage goes up, amp draw goes down.
OE bulb is 35 watts low beam at 12 volts or 2.91 amps. At 13.5 volts amp draw is 2.59. High beam is 55 watts at 12 volts or 4.58 amps. At 13.5 volts amp draw is 4.07 amps.
2.90A @ 13.5V DC (High Beam) 39.15 watts
1.90A @ 13.5V DC (Low Beam) 25.65 watts
3.50A @ 13.5V DC (Low Beam at Full Lean) 47.25 watts
0.092A @ 13.5V DC (Front Position) 1.242
I have installed quite a few advmonster units is the low draw at 25 watts high or low beam or 1.85 amps on high or low beam at 13.5 volts. The JW unit puts out about the same amount of light as the advmonster unit.
I should mention that I am not affiliated with advmonster. I have used their products and they stand behind them 100%. Any problems they will fix it asap.
Quote from: ShowBizWolf on March 05, 2017, 08:05:40 AM
Thanks!! If I'm not mistaken, it's very very close to the bulb I am using! How much did you buy your JW Speaker for? When I google searched it, my eyeballs about fell outta my head :icon_eek: :laugh:
Really a sweet lookin' light :thumb:
$648.23 for the JW Speaker unit.
$63.14 for a new headlight bucket with retaining ring as the GS500 headlight assembly doesn't have separate trim and retaining rings.
$2.47 for some rubber and nylon washers to use as spacers between the bucket and mounts, as the GS500 bucket has wider mounting hole spacing.
It was a lot to put into a bike that I got for free, but it can easily be removed and reinstalled on whatever bike I want.
Quote from: ben2go on March 05, 2017, 08:45:01 AM
OE is rated at 12v nominal as voltage goes up, amp draw goes down.
Which opposite of true for a halogen bulb, or for an LED, or pretty much for any passive device.
Voltage goes up, current goes up, because of Ohm's Law. E = I / R ... R remains constant, so if E goes up I must go up.
Quote
OE bulb is 35 watts low beam at 12 volts or 2.91 amps. At 13.5 volts amp draw is 2.59. High beam is 55 watts at 12 volts or 4.58 amps. At 13.5 volts amp draw is 4.07 amps.
Except an ordinary H4 headlamp is 55W low beam and 60W high beam, rated at 12.0 volts. If you want to calculate current at 13.5V you must first find R. Let's go for 60W.
P = E^2 / R ...
60 = 12^2 / R
144/60 = 2.4 ohms.
Now you can recalculate for I
P = I^2 * R
75.9375 = I^2 * 2.4
I =
5.625 amps for a 60W H4 at 13.5V.
For 55W it's linear, (55/60) * I ... which is
5.15625 ampsQuote
I have installed quite a few advmonster units is the low draw at 25 watts high or low beam or 1.85 amps on high or low beam at 13.5 volts. The JW unit puts out about the same amount of light as the advmonster unit.
The power consumption has little to do with the light output in lumens since the efficiency of the system (reflector, lens, technology, etc.) is what determines lumens of light output and current draw is a side effect. Just because the LED draws 25W (presuming by spec, at 12.0V) doesn't necessarily mean the light output is the same, even if both are LEDs, or even if they both use identical LED units (they don't).
I still suspect the light output is similar, but just pointing out that it's not because current draw (or power consumption) is similar.
Is that for the gen 2 models? All six of my gen 1 models have 35/55 bulbs OE.
Quote from: ben2go on March 06, 2017, 05:43:46 PM
Is that for the gen 2 models? All six of my gen 1 models have 35/55 bulbs OE.
I have never heard of a 35/55W H4 headlamp. Maybe this is a regional thing? Here in the USA an H4 is 55/60W. Our own gstwins wiki indicates such:
http://www.gstwin.com/replace_bulbs.htm
Still mostly wanted to correct the Ohm's law / current draw error. More voltage means more current when resistance is fixed in a DC circuit.
Quote from: mr72 on March 07, 2017, 05:46:50 AM
Quote from: ben2go on March 06, 2017, 05:43:46 PM
Is that for the gen 2 models? All six of my gen 1 models have 35/55 bulbs OE.
I have never heard of a 35/55W H4 headlamp. Maybe this is a regional thing? Here in the USA an H4 is 55/60W. Our own gstwins wiki indicates such:
http://www.gstwin.com/replace_bulbs.htm
Still mostly wanted to correct the Ohm's law / current draw error. More voltage means more current when resistance is fixed in a DC circuit.
:thumb: