Conversion to LED bulb in Headlight

[rscottlow]

Ahhh okay this makes a lot of sense to me. I'm glad that what I've discovered on my own so far is what you just explained. Awesome !!!!

Thank you for taking the time and yes I would love to know more about the draw of an HID projector.

All of the lights on my GS have been swapped over to LED (did the gauges, dash indicators and tail lights in the spring!) with the exception of the signals and the signal indicator on the dash. That's a whole 'nother ball of wax on this forum as to how to get them to work properly and I never wanted to mess with it tbh. Solutions have been found, however!!

It can't be that hard can it? Just swap the mechanical flasher relay to a electronic adjustable flasher relay: https://youtu.be/gwq4kTjW3m8?t=1m3s

Haha, I'm far from an expert when it comes to electrics, but it seems to be more difficult than that. In addition to installing an LED flasher (or resistors, as some have found successful), you also have to install diodes...something related to the way the dash indicators are wired.

There were LED turn signals on my bike when I bought it, but they weren't wired correctly. I'll be fixing that sometime this winter when I get around to buying the flasher and diodes.

[ShowBizWolf]

Since the thread has kinda gone this direction, I did find this short writeup the other day and I found it interesting. Ben, if you're still watching all this, did you use LED bulbs in this thread? It's kinda unclear at the beginning:

http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=42477.msg477506#msg477506

Shows a really simple fix to the signal problem (as simple as swapping the relay as urbane suggested) but then on down the thread some people said it's not that simple after all.

rscottlow, good luck with your signals!!! Each time there's a success on this forum it makes me wanna try to do it myself.

[ben2go]

Since the thread has kinda gone this direction, I did find this short writeup the other day and I found it interesting. Ben, if you're still watching all this, did you use LED bulbs in this thread? It's kinda unclear at the beginning:

http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=42477.msg477506#msg477506

Shows a really simple fix to the signal problem (as simple as swapping the relay as urbane suggested) but then on down the thread some people said it's not that simple after all.

rscottlow, good luck with your signals!!! Each time there's a success on this forum it makes me wanna try to do it myself.

No. My lights weren't LEDs. I'm not sure what bulb was in them. I do know they were some standard incandescent bulb. I used the Chinese Buell  knock off turn signals from ebay. I still have my GS that I did all the modifications on, plus five more. Soon I'll be picking up a few more, I hope. I ran into wiring problems with my GS and squirreled it away about 5 or 6 years ago. I have 8 bikes total so I rarely rode it anyway.

[rscottlow]

Since the thread has kinda gone this direction, I did find this short writeup the other day and I found it interesting. Ben, if you're still watching all this, did you use LED bulbs in this thread? It's kinda unclear at the beginning:

http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=42477.msg477506#msg477506

Shows a really simple fix to the signal problem (as simple as swapping the relay as urbane suggested) but then on down the thread some people said it's not that simple after all.

rscottlow, good luck with your signals!!! Each time there's a success on this forum it makes me wanna try to do it myself.

Thanks ShowBiz. There are quite a few threads that I have saved links to, because I'm going to have to get around to it eventually. My bike was dropped at least once before I purchased it, and the PO replaced the bar ends, passenger pegs, and signals, but the signals weren't wired up correctly. I've signaled by hand for my entire first year on a bike...I think it's going to take me a while to learn to use them when I finally get them working. I'll let you know how it goes when I finally get around to giving it a shot. Maybe next weekend...


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[mr72]

It can't be that hard can it? Just swap the mechanical flasher relay to a electronic adjustable flasher relay: https://youtu.be/gwq4kTjW3m8?t=1m3s

It's not nearly that simple because of the way the dash indicator is wired. Not hard but not just a relay swap.

Hope you learned something today  .

Yeah but we are talking LEDs here not xenon or projectors.

A properly designed led H4 replacement will perform just as well as a halogen and possibly better depending on the reflector and lens. And they will last way longer than a halogen bulb and don't suffer changes in light color or intensity based on battery charge state like halogens do. But frankly most car drivers who switch to LEDs are just looking for that obnoxious blue color, and most who aren't are actually looking for a beam with more spread than the halogen so strict reflector compatibly is not the ultimate goal.

[ShowBizWolf]

Well I have to take credit for that one... going off topic into xenon and projectors. When urbane asked if I wanted to know more about them I said yes. 

I do have another question now... and since I kinda took over drabbit's thread and the dash indicator has been brought up, I'm gonna ask it here.

If only the actual signals were replaced with LED's and the indicator in the dash was left stock, would the flasher relay swap work?

And just to be clear, I am NOT asking because it's something I would do. I'm just curious.

[rscottlow]

Well I have to take credit for that one... going off topic into xenon and projectors. When urbane asked if I wanted to know more about them I said yes. 

I do have another question now... and since I kinda took over drabbit's thread and the dash indicator has been brought up, I'm gonna ask it here.

If only the actual signals were replaced with LED's and the indicator in the dash was left stock, would the flasher relay swap work?

And just to be clear, I am NOT asking because it's something I would do. I'm just curious.

I was under the impression that if you swap the dash indicators with LED's, that's the only way to make the flasher relay swap work by itself...but you have to install two LED's in the turn signal dash indicator space (one for each side). The other option is to add diodes, swap the flasher, and leave the existing dash indicators. At least I think that's what I understand based on others' experiences.


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[mr72]

If only the actual signals were replaced with LED's and the indicator in the dash was left stock, would the flasher relay swap work?

I was under the impression that if you swap the dash indicators with LED's, that's the only way to make the flasher relay swap work by itself...but you have to install two LED's in the turn signal dash indicator space (one for each side). The other option is to add diodes, swap the flasher, and leave the existing dash indicators.

If you swap the turn signals for LEDs with no other changes, then you will either get fast-blink, always-on or never-on from the turn signals.

If you swap the flasher relay without modifying the dash indicator, then you will wind up getting all four turn signals blinking whenever either turn signal is activated.

The solution then is to either replace the turn signal indicator in the dash with two LEDs and some rewiring, or add two diodes and do some rewiring, in which case you can use either the stock indicator or an LED indicator.

Hope this helps.

[rscottlow]

If only the actual signals were replaced with LED's and the indicator in the dash was left stock, would the flasher relay swap work?

I was under the impression that if you swap the dash indicators with LED's, that's the only way to make the flasher relay swap work by itself...but you have to install two LED's in the turn signal dash indicator space (one for each side). The other option is to add diodes, swap the flasher, and leave the existing dash indicators.

If you swap the turn signals for LEDs with no other changes, then you will either get fast-blink, always-on or never-on from the turn signals.

If you swap the flasher relay without modifying the dash indicator, then you will wind up getting all four turn signals blinking whenever either turn signal is activated.

The solution then is to either replace the turn signal indicator in the dash with two LEDs and some rewiring, or add two diodes and do some rewiring, in which case you can use either the stock indicator or an LED indicator.

Hope this helps.

Absolutely, thanks. This is what I was thinking. Weather permitting, I'll probably get the GS out and try to get the turn signals wired up this weekend.


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[mr72]

Weather permitting, I'll probably get the GS out and try to get the turn signals wired up this weekend.

Remember you will need a solid-state flasher. IMHO the two-diodes method of rewiring the dash indicator is way better, since then you can still use a standard bulb and the original socket/plug etc. Basically maintenance is just like stock rather than some cobbled-together two-LED hack. IMHO.

My problem is my LED turn signals are not bright enough. They have a built-in resistor somewhere that I need to swap for a smaller value. I may try to hack into them and see if I can modify them.

[rscottlow]

So I really haven't dug into mine at all yet. All I know is that the signals were not functioning correctly when I bought the bike. So the job may have been partially done, but not completely...i.e. the flasher may have been replaced with an LED flasher, or other mods may have been made. Regardless, the turn signals do not work as they should. Since I won't be riding again until spring, I'm going to start tearing things down this afternoon to find out what has been done/what needs to be done. As I've said before, I don't know much about electrics, but I'll compare the wiring to the diagram as best I can and go from there. Now that the holidays are past, I've got disposable time and income that I can devote to my GS 

[mr72]

Yeah just ping me if you wind up getting stuck. I made an off the shelf three-pin relay from Autozone work. Just start with the relay/flasher and work from there.

If you don't have the right relay/flasher, then either the LEDs will not come on at all (like mine), they will blink really fast (some others), or they will come on and stay on solid. So if your turn signals do something like this, then the odds are the relay/flasher is at fault.

[rscottlow]

Cool, I appreciate the help. Aside from changing the oil in both cars on saturday, I have most of the day available for working on the GS. I'm hoping to get this working right...

[mr72]

Hopefully one of the cars is not a Fiat 500... took me like 3 hours to change the oil in my daughter's! I swear they never considered that the oil filter may have to be removed while the engine is in the car.

[rscottlow]

Hopefully one of the cars is not a Fiat 500... took me like 3 hours to change the oil in my daughter's! I swear they never considered that the oil filter may have to be removed while the engine is in the car.

Haha nope. I drive an '04 Ranger and my wife a '14 CX-5. Both are easy oil changes. I was actually considering a Jeep Renegade to replace my Ranger, but my dad said they're built on the Fiat 500 platform. Now I'm not sure whether or not I want to do that. I really need some tow capacity, and without buying the Trailhawk, I'm not sure I'll be able to pull anything.


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[mr72]

This is way OT of this forum and thread but I pay attention to Jeep and Fiat a little bit since I own one of each. The Renegade looks like a pretty decent vehicle and I'd recommend it to people who want a small, capable crossover. It's built on the same platform as the Fiat 500X, and remember Fiat has been building cars on this platform for a long, long time. They just haven't been sold in the USA until recently. But it's a very mature platform, ubiquitous in Europe. The alternative for FCA would be to build a crossover on some old Chrysler platform, which are all junk by comparison. I'll take a Fiat 500 any day over a Neon.

OTOH my Jeep (Wrangler Unlimited) is kind of a piece of junk from a reliability and quality perspective. But it happens to be the only vehicle on the market with this particular combination of features so that's why I own it. The only thing worse than Chrysler quality is their dealer service. At least a Wrangler is super simple to work on and has a huge supply of aftermarket parts. I bought mine new so I figure the warranty will keep me from regretting it too badly.

If you search there's a really cool video of some guys taking the Renegade Trailhawk on Black Bear Pass in the rockies. It'll shock you what that little Jeep can do. You won't find a CR-V or Rav4 cracking Black Bear Pass.

[rscottlow]

Yeah, I don't have any doubt that the Renegade is a decent vehicle. I like them a lot, but I don't think it will meet my needs. Honestly, I probably need to have two vehicles to do everything I need, unless I spend 30,000+ on a newer F150 crew cab.

Right now I'm driving a 2004 Ranger Edge 4x4, 4.0 V6. It does everything I need, except it doesn't have  full back seat for my kids.

I need a vehicle that I can drive to and from work every day (15 mi +/- each direction), get decent gas mileage, pick up my kids from daycare (a 4 year old and a 1 year old, so I need room for carseats), and be able to pull stuff on the weekends (a travel trailer, or random trailer for recreational purposes). My problem with the renegade is that the less expensive models have a smaller engine which equates to less tow capacity. And they're new enough that I can't pick up a trailhawk on the secondary market at a low enough cost to be worth it.

My Ranger has roughly 230,000 miles on it now, so I'll need to purchase a replacement sooner or later, but I'm putting it off as long as I can. It's a reliable truck, but it won't fulfill my needs long enough to keep it around...

[mr72]

Scott, sounds to me like a used Honda Pilot, a Mazda CX-9 or just about any other midsize crossover would work for you, even an Explorer, if you like American cars better. Depending on how much rear seat space you REALLY need (not much with two small children), and how much you actually tow, a compact SUV will probably work fine. A Kia Sportage, Hyundai Tuscon, Mazda CX-5, etc. all are rated to two 2,000 lb, same as the Renegade or Cherokee with the 2.4L engine. The Renegade will probably smoke them in true off-road performance but this was not on your list of needs. A Cherokee with the 3.2L V6 and towing package will tow 4500 lb, and a Honda Pilot will get up to 5000 lb depending on the package. A Mazda CX-9 will match my Wrangler at 3500 lb and is a less homogenized car than a Pilot.

Just some things to consider. With a new Jeep, you are paying a lot for that little "Trail Rated" badge no matter which model you buy. Jeep quality and reliability is historically pretty terrible, but the Renegade might be a little better since it's not originally a Chrysler product. None of these gets anywhere close to the quality and dependability of a Mazda, Honda, Toyota, etc.

[rscottlow]

I really like my wife's CX-5, and it has plenty of room for the kids. But we're looking at buying a travel trailer within the next year or two, and I've found that those are quite heavy. You almost need to have a pickup truck for anything larger than a small pop-up camper.

The off-road performance is of some importance to me...I like the Ranger because I deer hunt, and it's nice to be able to toss a deer in the back. But that can be accomplished with a cargo carrier too. I really like the Wranglers, but they are all expensive and they don't have a ton of tow capacity.

Honestly, I'll probably try to get another year out of my Ranger. Even though it's not ideal for transporting my kids, I don't have a car payment on it. The maintenance costs are mounting, and it needs a set of tires, but it's still running well. And when I turn 30 next summer I'm owed a payment from a structured settlement resulting from a major car accident that I was a victim of 10+ years ago, which will cover a big down payment on a new vehicle...

[mr72]

A Wrangler Unlimited has a 3500 lb towing capacity but surprisingly little usable cargo space. Other Jeeps have up to 5000 lb towing capacity ... the Wrangler's problem is brakes and wheelbase... maybe that and the transmission. Anyway, a Wrangler is like the Harley or Ducati of SUVs. It's outrageously unreliable, uncomfortable, expensive and gauche if you don't either a) actually need the serious off-road capability or b) have an emotional reason to drive a "real" Jeep. In other words, if you're not off-roading and your ego doesn't need a Jeep to feel tough, then there are way better choices, like a CX-9 or a Honda Pilot.