Hey guys!
My name is Alex, I'm 23, I grew up in Santa Barbara and went to music school in San Francisco. I recently bought my first motorcycle and I don't know her name yet, but she's a 2000 GS500 that I found on craigslist.
I saw her up there for $1000 and thought, "she could be the one."
I texted the seller to meet for Saturday at 5, watched a video on how to shift the gears, pulled out cash out of the bank, bought a helmet/gloves, and got on the BART down to San Bruno, where I took a Lyft to check her out.
Alex, the seller, was a cool dude. A guy who toured with his BMW bike from California to Alaska and back down to South America.
Half way down to South America, he met his girlfriend and decided to move to Redwood City with her to live at their dope home with a couple BMW Bikes and the Suzuki. He purchased the GS500 for her, but she had an accident with it where she bent the exhaust manifold, dented the gas tank, and scared herself from riding. The bike sat for months.
I showed up at 5 and we had a good conversation that led to me test riding the bike around the block. The carbs are dirty and he showed me that currently, the choke needs to be pulled back all the way when I cold start it. Then, I slowly push it forward as the bike heats up to operating temp.
It was exhilarating learning to ride it around the block. I came back and was so stoked. We bartered and came to $850.
We signed the paperwork and it was done. He gave me a Haynes manual, magnetic bike bag, and a safety vest because it was getting dark out and I was on my way to San Francisco!
I learned how to shift the bike on El Camino Road about 3/4 of the way up. I then thought it was a good idea to try out the freeway, where I totally thought I was gonna die. Got a little speed wobble with the wind cause I didn't really know what I was doing and I don't have a steering dampener(is that normal?). I saw a cop pass me and I honestly would have been happy with him pulling me over.
Alas, I made it home and now it's parked on the street. I'm in love. I love the way she sounds, especially when I downshift her and she shouts back at me with pops of pure joy. I look at her for minutes and take pictures for myself every time I go outside.
I've been riding up the hills in SF on my way to work and it's so cool learning to listen to the engine and how it responds to the clutch/throttle/rear brake so that I can smoothly get up the hills. The stalls are steeeeeeep...
I've got a workstation reserved this Saturday at a community shop out here and I ordered a carburetor rebuild kit to get her running right.
I've been watching this video and studying it: https://youtu.be/AJh1hxNf7BA
I still have to take the safety course, get a license, register her in my name, insurance, and a parking permit.
I'll post again once I rebuild the carbs on her.
(https://i.imgur.com/G9fm3Jt.jpg)
Hey, maybe I'll have a name for her!
No steering damper needed. Just experience, and likely ensure the front end is straight. Choke is 100% normal to be required to start it, and if it's adjusted right, probably has to run in half choke for the first few miles.
I probably would have recommended learning to ride before taking an unknown motorcycle on public roads. But hey, everyone starts somewhere. Get to the msf class :)
Brave of you to just dgaf and get on the freeway green like that! :hithead: But hey you did it and sounds like you're learning more and more. I thought it was going to be a real turd while reading but it looks sweet. Can't wait to read more of your adventures!! oh and more pics :dunno_black:
:icon_mrgreen:
Awesome story and welcome!!
+1 about the choke... by the way you describe it, it's set up as it should be.
My GS was my first bike as well. Keep us posted and always wear your gear :cheers:
Welcome to the motorcycle club! The GS500 is the perfect first bike to learn to ride and wrench. I've had my GS for 12 years as other bikes have come and gone. Its just the perfect all-around motorcycle.
Good on you for learning motorcycle clutch work on the SF hills. If you can ride there, you can ride anywhere.
My wife and I rolled through SF on our GS500 once and I couldn't believe some of the hills!. And stop signs before the hill crests? wtf.
As others have said, the choke operation is normal. Bike likes to have the choke on full for a minute or two before turning it off. Its weather dependent. Choke longer when temps are closer to freezing. Choke barely needed when temps are near 100 (Fahrenheit).
If you are rebuilding the carb, don't get carb cleaner on anything rubber. Only solid metal parts. Carb cleaner eats rubber -- you can't just spray it on everything.
If you rode it home you don't need a carb clean or rebuild.
You really need a rebuild kit only if the float bowl gasket is leaking and even then you don't need all the jets and screws etc etc those kits have. Those kits are a simple waste of $$$.
Anyway you may need to clean and adjust the carb yea, but rebuild kit is a waste of time and $$$. Cleaning and adjusting is where you get the "better running" from a rebuild kit. In fact these 00's have jap parts originally and those last a lot longer than these Chinese rebuild kits.
Cool.
Buddha.
If you don't know your way around a carburetor as well as The Buddha, sometimes cleaning and replacing everything is the best method.
That said, Buddha is right that if the bike got you home then it probably doesn't need much attention. What symptom are you trying to solve with a carb rebuild? A fresh tank of gas may be all the bike needs.
Hey guys!
Thanks for the warm welcome. I've been riding every day and I'm slowly getting the hang of things.
I bought a nice jacket and back padding for it.
Also, I finally came up with a name for her, Stacy.
Quote from: Bluesmudge on March 12, 2020, 04:15:03 PM
Buddha is right that if the bike got you home then it probably doesn't need much attention. What symptom are you trying to solve with a carb rebuild? A fresh tank of gas may be all the bike needs.
When I start the bike with the choke is fully open, the rpms jump and hang at 5-6k. As it warms up, I'm able to slowly push the choke forward till it hits all the way and the rpms are at 800-1.5k on idle. If I push the choke forward too far before it warms up, the bike stalls.
The throttle response is delayed by about 1 second and the rpms hang around 4k for a couple seconds if I rev high enough.
I noticed some performance issues when accelerating, like a secondary delay followed occasionally by a clang of a metal part below me.
Do these seem like issues based out of the carburettors?
I also noticed that there is an oil leak in between her pistons front and back side. oil smoke lightly comes out front when i start it Any ideas?
It looks like I'll be riding in the rain for the first time to the bike shop across the bridge. Any riding advice for this scenario?
Quote from: AlexPerkins on March 12, 2020, 08:31:56 PM
When I start the bike with the choke is fully open, the rpms jump and hang at 5-6k. As it warms up, I'm able to slowly push the choke forward till it hits all the way and the rpms are at 800-1.5k on idle. If I push the choke forward too far before it warms up, the bike stalls.
How long does it take before the rpms jump to 5-6k? Everything you've described in the quote above sounds correct. These bikes take a while to fully warm up and run without choke.
Riding in the rain... the main thing that comes to my mind is how the painted lines get pretty slick... same goes for leaves if there are some on the road.
Awesome to know you got yourself a nice jacket!! What kind did ya get?
Quote from: ShowBizWolf on March 12, 2020, 10:41:13 PM
How long does it take before the rpms jump to 5-6k? Everything you've described in the quote above sounds correct. These bikes take a while to fully warm up and run without choke.
Riding in the rain... the main thing that comes to my mind is how the painted lines get pretty slick... same goes for leaves if there are some on the road.
Awesome to know you got yourself a nice jacket!! What kind did ya get?
It take a couple seconds before the rpms jump to 5-6k. Then rpms hang up there till the choke is back about half way. If I try to push any further before the bike is warmed up, it stalls. The choke at 7/8ths closed keeps the rpms at 2k.
Is it not bad for the bike to have it revving this high on a cold start for a minute?
I'll make sure to watch out for that!
I got a REV'IT! Tornado 3 and a back pad.
That's normal correct cold start choke behavior. The so called hanging idle is due to the idle being set too high, which may be in effort to compensate for some other issue, most commonly in my experience because the owner expects to run with no choke before the bike is warmed up completely. They take a long time to get fully warmed up. Use the choke, it's your friend.
If you want to clean the carbs, read my blog post about it. But better to just first adjust the idle mixture correctly, and don't mess with it if nothing is wrong. Again, my blog explains that.
Again, what you are describing is normal choke operation. That is how a choke is supposed to work in order to get the bike up to operating temp.
Set choke to full, let it rev to 4,000 rpm for a minute or so. At this point you can probably ride off and turn off the choke but may need to watch the revs at stop lights for the first few minutes so the bike doesn't die. To prevent this, let the bike warm up longer with the choke on before riding it.
Here is the link to mr72's carb post:
https://joshkarnes.blogspot.com/2017/09/fixing-common-gs500-carburetor-issues.html?q=gs500 (https://joshkarnes.blogspot.com/2017/09/fixing-common-gs500-carburetor-issues.html?q=gs500)
Note that the idle speed should be set when the bike is fully warmed up (at least 10 minutes of riding). Set it to 1200 rpm. You may find it now takes even longer to warm up (not die) before you can take the choke off. This is normal. All GS Suzuki bikes are known to be cold blooded. Welcome to the world that existed before fuel injection.
Quote from: Bluesmudge on March 13, 2020, 08:45:30 AM
Welcome to the world that existed before fuel injection.
No kidding.
But FWIW my Triumph is fuel injected and while it will start and run when stone cold with no "choke", it does have a fast-idle plunger that you pull out to one of two stops, and it starts and runs a whole lot better when cold using this fast-idle thing. Triumph manual says always use the full-stop plunger for cold start and always use it at half when starting the bike even if it's warm. IME it sure runs a lot better when starting if you use at least half "choke".
I think some newer FI bikes use closed-loop operation and IAT for more than just enrichment.
These days so many people think requiring the choke to start is a sign of poorly tuned motorcycle, and it's just simply not true.
Man, I remember my 240z. I had to use the choke on that too! Crazy. How many of us on here are old enough to have driven a carb'd car with manual choke?
Quote from: mr72 on March 13, 2020, 09:07:53 AM
Quote from: Bluesmudge on March 13, 2020, 08:45:30 AM
Welcome to the world that existed before fuel injection.
These days so many people think requiring the choke to start is a sign of poorly tuned motorcycle, and it's just simply not true.
How many of us on here are old enough to have driven a carb'd car with manual choke?
Very true. Fuel injected cars (and automatic chokes before that) have been around so long now that many people new to motorcycles don't understand what a choke is or how it works. The list of new motorcycles that still have carburetors is getting very short (and probably over-represented by Suzuki bikes). The DR650 and DRZ400 come to mind as carb bikes still available. Even simple bikes with drum brakes like the TU250X and VanVan 200 have fuel injection.
My 2003 BMW R1150RT has the same fast idle "choke" as your Triumph. It seems a little goofy...like one foot stuck in the past. I can't wait to someday own a properly modern bike with fully automatic fueling and safety aids. Or maybe I'll just skip straight ahead to an electric motorcycle because gasoline engines with electronic aids feels like a stop-gap measure.
I have no allegiance to any fuel or notion of what a "true" motorcycle is. My first car was a 1996 Dodge Grand caravan that had fuel injection, ABS and power locks. Growing up I rode around with my Dad in an early 1950's Willys Jeep that had a manual choke. I love my GS500, yet I am fascinated by the simplicity and quiet of electric vehicles.
For the OP, the GS500 is a great bike to learn to work on motorcycles from a certain era (basically late '70's, '80s and '90s bikes and Japanese bikes from the '00's). However, with modern bikes being so different the main thing you are learning is a methodology and mindset to tinker and understand mechanical and electrical objects. Specific knowledge of how carburetors work will be nearly useless in 15 years. But the experience of fixing and knowing that If some other human designed and built it, you should be able to understand it and repair it -- that is the important lesson to learn.
My first vehicle was a 1975 Valiant, which I sold because I wanted a motorcycle. I still miss it sometimes!
I'm currently still rocking my 1994 Caravan and Spirit... I love the simple stuff... and hate how now it seems that everything needs to have a touch screen and more electronics than the Circuit City I used to work at :icon_rolleyes:
Hey Alex, welcome to the gang!
I live right next to you in Pacifica, so hit me up if you ever need any help with the bike or want some riding company.
I'm impressed / amazed / horrified / happy that you survived your first ride back with so little practice.
Would really encourage you to take the MSF course - there's one right in Daly City. Given how dangerous it is riding around SF, it's a really good idea to get some formal training. Plus it may save you on your moto insurance.
Sounds like your moto is riding OK. Listen to the Grand Poobah Buddha. Just leave your carbs alone for now.
The enemy of good is better. In the process of tinkering with your bike, you may actually screw up something and leave you without a bike to ride.
Get used to it first, get some more (safe!) time in the saddle, and then start the serious tinkering.
There is blue smoke coming out the tail pipe and also from the left side of the engine on cold starts. Every cold start blasts the sidewalk with smoke. People on the street are getting very upset with how it starts. I bartend at a bar that has a patio on the street side and I parked in front of the patio in the morning. When I got off work, mid happy hour, I turned my bike on to warm up and I smoked out the whole patio. One of our bussers started yelling at me right before the bike was warmed up and I just gave him and everyone a big smile and enthusiastic nod.
Here are some photo's of a leak I have going on down unda:
(https://i.imgur.com/EDE6J4o.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/4vvyTqF.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/dsmndUc.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/pPEkywS.jpg)
What are your guy's thoughts?
I dropped off the bike tonight in front of the shop that I was going to go to in the morning to do the carb rebuild and took the bus home. It's raining tomorrow and I've never ridden in the rain, so I thought it may be best for me to take the bus there when it's pouring.
I also bought some pants today! They're pretty solid and they have knee guards. Both the jacket and pants are so damn heavy, but I'm stoked on the protection considering that I haven't taken the course yet.
Last thing I need is some boots. Any recommendations?
I do plan to take the msf course soon and I'm studying for the written test.
Blue smoke on startup is classic valve stem seals leaking. Could also be a head gasket. Could be rings. Of course it could just be condensation in the pipes. Have to diagnose.
Smoke coming from the engine, not the tailpipe, is not a good sign. Maybe it's just leaked oil burning off. I'd have to see it in person. Could be as little as a leaky gasket or as bad as a crack in the crankcase. Or lots in between.
As usual I contend a good usable GS is a $2000 investment, however it stacks up between the price of the bike and immediate repairs. In your case I'd do a compression test right away and get some idea of the condition of the rings and valves. But the symptoms you describe could lead to a top end rebuild which can cost $500-1000, half if you do it yourself. But if you have an oil leak at the bottom of the cylinders then you have to pull it all apart just to replace the gasket, might as well do rings and valves while you are at it. Anyway, hope for the best, prepare for the worst. Check the oil frequently until you get this sorted. At least it sounds like the bike is usable until you can fix it properly. Tweaking the carbs are the least of today's worries.
Oh and trust me you don't want to try riding in the rain until you get a front fender on that bike. I personally think you have about 20 hours of riding in parking lots to do before you are even close to safe to be in the road. You'll have lots of time to evaluate the issues with the bike without risking getting stranded if you do that. Otherwise potential hospital bills could dwarf your moto repair costs.
Congrats on the bike! I second (third or fourth?) what others have said have said about your normal choke operation. The GS500 is a great bike to learn on and tinker with and has been an amazing commuter. I have put about 12,000 miles on mine so far and have had no problems beyond general maintenance.
Is the smoke blue or more of a sooty black? Or is it white like steam? On cold early spring mornings some white "smoke" is normal as the condensation in the engine and exhaust is evaporated and sent out the pipe. Blue smoke indicates burning oil. If this only happens at start up then likely it is the valve guides/stem seals. If it persists when warmed up or worsens with higher rpms likely you are looking at piston rings. Black smoke indicated rich running and would usually be accompanied with bogging off idle and black sooty spark plugs.
Happy learning! You'll love the bike! Also glad you got some gear, as far as boots go I ride to work every morning I can so I just wear my Red Wing Work Boots (#2245) and jeans usually since thats the appropriate work attire. They are thick leather, steel shank, slip resistant, and steel toe. I would consider them the minimal needed. Good riding boots will give you a better shift feel and more ankle and shin protection (if they are taller boots).
Good luck and before you get carried away fixing 1,000 things, always remember to diagnose properly. IE: Baseline carb settings to start with, compression test, look at spark plugs for fuel mixture etc. :thumb:
A quick thought for smoke coming from the engine. Is it possible that oil is dripping from your engine onto the exhaust, and the the hot exhaust is causing the smoke? I have seen in on cars before, but you might need to clean the area first to really tell.
Otherwise, if it is actually coming from the engine it seems like a head gasket or exhaust manifold gasket/crack blowing combustion fumes out. The only thing that's 100% certain is you have some new seals and gaskets in your future to stop the oil leaks :icon_mrgreen:
Just to keep the party going...
I was able to help Alex out a bit yesterday. We met up at Mot0Guild on Treasure Island, in the middle of SF Bay during a heavy rainstorm. Really cool place to hang out for any moto heads. They have big work stations and tools you can rent out, if you're not lucky enough to have your own space.
The bike is an '01 with 19k miles. Decent condition except left exhaust header is crushed in about 40%.
Got the wrong carb rebuild kit, so ended up just taking them apart and cleaning the jets. It had the 3 jets, but none of
the white plastic discs at the top nor PAIR trim, as I had on my '07. Thinks looked OK, no gunk there.
Air filter with K&N inside stock airbox. Decently clean as well.
Plugs were wet black with oil, left worse than right. So we changed to brand new plugs.
Looked like a small oil leak coming from the central nubbin on the cam chain tensioner, which the PO had tried to seal up with silicone. Some of that oil drained forward to front side of the engine. Hard to tell if all the oil leak could be attributed to just this, rather than cylinder heads.
We were a bit rushed for time, so I didn't have the luxury of triple checking things as I do at home.
Bike still ran a little rough after the cleanup. Battery totally dead. Exhaust still grey/white on startup; held paper at the end and no oil specks seen but it did smell like gas. Eventually cleared up once bike warmed up after 5 min, but it did die a couple times unless we kept RPMs >1500-2000.
What would you guys do next? We didn't have time to do valve clearance check. Next up compression test?
Alex - forgot to tell you - you need to check gas tank. Use a flash light to look inside the tank and make sure the gas is nice and clear, not rusty orange. With more time, we also should have checked for vacuum leaks at all the carb joints and hoses.
Compression test first. And proactively replace all o rings, especially nthe intake boots. The crushed header and k&n together will make jetting very difficult.
Love seeing some gs teamwork! applause!!
Did the K&N air filter have the restrictor ring in place? Did you get a chance to see what jets were installed when you cleaned them? K&N with no restrictor needs some jetting changes.
Probably best to set jetting back to stock, replace the K&N filter with a stock paper unit or Uni foam filter, and pick up the free exhaust in the for-sale section here to get rid of the dented header.
The oil leak looks like its the cam tensioner. Replace the tensioner and gasket when you check the valve clearances. If its not the cam chain tensioner leaking then its the cylinder base gasket. As mr72 says, you might as well save up and have the top end rebuild at that point since you have to disassemble nearly all of the top end to replace that gasket anyways. Don't be surprised if it costs more than $1,000 for a shop to do a top end rebuild in SF. I paid closer to $2k in Portland Oregon for a top end rebuild, general service/safety check, and dyno tune. My bike has over 40,000 miles though. 19k seems to early to need that kind of engine work.
mine had under 21K when it needed a top end rebuid. I thought I paid way too much for like $900, but it was just among many mistakes I made. SF is likely a whole different market.
Gonna guess that the jets were stock, as it didn't look like anyone had ever opened up the carbs before.
So that would make them
2001+ Stock - 17.5 Pilots / 60 Mid Main / 127.5 Main
The K&N was the round cylindrical one that bolted into the airbox; not the oblong unit with two ports directly into the carb intake.
I didn't know about the restrictor ring. Is that some black rubber ring that would go into the neck? Alex - go check :icon_razz:
Quote from: Endopotential on March 16, 2020, 11:50:04 AM
I didn't know about the restrictor ring. Is that some black rubber ring that would go into the neck? Alex - go check :icon_razz:
Yes, its a rubber ring that fits in snugly to the opening of the filter. You are supposed to install it if you have stock pipe and jetting. It is easy to remove the seat, the two tank bolts, and lift the tank a little to sneak a peak and see if its installed.
If the restrictor is not installed in the filter, the bike is probably running lean somewhere in the RPM range. Again, best to just go back to the stock filter as you have too many unknowns and the K&N doesn't filter very well anyways.
Quote from: Endopotential on March 16, 2020, 11:50:04 AM
Gonna guess that the jets were stock, as it didn't look like anyone had ever opened up the carbs before.
So that would make them
2001+ Stock - 17.5 Pilots / 60 Mid Main / 127.5 Main
The K&N was the round cylindrical one that bolted into the airbox; not the oblong unit with two ports directly into the carb intake.
I didn't know about the restrictor ring. Is that some black rubber ring that would go into the neck? Alex - go check :icon_razz:
I believe its 130 mains on those, but its unlikely anyone swapped em out for smaller, so its probably stock.
Cool.
Buddha.
I thought the mains were marked 122.5, but that doesn't make any sense. Chalk it up to my poor eyes, or fading of the tiny stamp.
So I'm betting they were the 127.5 stock
Hey everyone!
Sorry it's been a while. I've been riding Stacy till... I can't, which is now.
Yesterday I went for a ride and all of a sudden my throttle wasn't engaging. I was getting about 1.5rpm of rev with a full twist of the wrist. I checked the throttle cable housing on the handle bars and it is still intact. So the cable must be stretched. My friend, 3 Harley dudes, and I lifted Stacy into a truck and brought her back to her parking spot.
The oil leak/burn is insane. For example, I went through about a quart of oil going down to Alice's Cafe from SF.
I also noticed a small intermittent pinging sound when riding in first gear and letting go of the clutch. This stops once the bike is fully warmed up.
She does run lean in the upper rpm range, past 7k or so. Time to get back to stock intake and exhaust.
The clutch cable is also stretching/acting funny. I figure I better replace all three cables (both throttles and the clutch).
I want to do an at home overhaul of sorts.
I have a list of things to do here with the materials under each one.
Please let me know if I'm missing anything for the overhaul.
I have ordered the parts listed below on Revzilla and Partzilla.
General Things
-Crescent 140pc tool set from Walmart
-3/8 torque wrench
-4in Hone(For head deglaze)
-Cover to shield Stacy while she's naked on the street.
Lube the chain
-Brush
-Cleaner
-Lube
Replace throttle cables
-Throttle Cable 1 & 2 Assembly
Replace clutch cable
-Clutch Cable Assembly
Replace Stock intake
-Filter Assembly
Replace gaskets down to Cylinder Head
-Piston Rings
-Clamp(to compress rings without removing pistons) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VISqGGMcBTc) Like this?
-Cylinder Head Cover Gasket
-Cylinder Head Gasket
-Cam Chain Tensioner Gaskets (Adjuster and front gasket)
-Cylinder Base Gasket
-Valve Seals
(I will buy a stock exhaust when I get the chance. I'll go back into the forums to find the one that someone recommended I grab.)
If you have any advice or guidance on this process. Please let me know!
The parts are supposed to arrive on the 20th of May
Quote from: AlexPerkins on May 14, 2020, 08:15:05 PM
Hey everyone!
Sorry it's been a while. I've been riding Stacy till... I can't, which is now.
Yesterday I went for a ride and all of a sudden my throttle wasn't engaging. I was getting about 1.5rpm of rev with a full twist of the wrist. I checked the throttle cable housing on the handle bars and it is still intact. So the cable must be stretched. My friend, 3 Harley dudes, and I lifted Stacy into a truck and brought her back to her parking spot.
The oil leak/burn is insane. For example, I went through about a quart of oil going down to Alice's Cafe from SF.
I also noticed a small intermittent pinging sound when riding in first gear and letting go of the clutch. This stops once the bike is fully warmed up.
She does run lean in the upper rpm range, past 7k or so. Time to get back to stock intake and exhaust.
The clutch cable is also stretching/acting funny. I figure I better replace all three cables (both throttles and the clutch).
I want to do an at home overhaul of sorts.
I have a list of things to do here with the materials under each one.
Please let me know if I'm missing anything for the overhaul.
I have ordered the parts listed below on Revzilla and Partzilla.
General Things
-Crescent 140pc tool set from Walmart
-3/8 torque wrench
-4in Hone(For head deglaze)
-Cover to shield Stacy while she's naked on the street.
Lube the chain
-Brush
-Cleaner
-Lube
Replace throttle cables
-Throttle Cable 1 & 2 Assembly
Replace clutch cable
-Clutch Cable Assembly
Replace Stock intake
-Filter Assembly
Replace gaskets down to Cylinder Head
-Piston Rings
-Clamp(to compress rings without removing pistons) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VISqGGMcBTc) Like this?
-Cylinder Head Cover Gasket
-Cylinder Head Gasket
-Cam Chain Tensioner Gaskets (Adjuster and front gasket)
-Cylinder Base Gasket
-Valve Seals
(I will buy a stock exhaust when I get the chance. I'll go back into the forums to find the one that someone recommended I grab.)
If you have any advice or guidance on this process. Please let me know!
The parts are supposed to arrive on the 20th of May
I am worried you're getting in over your head.
Someone wanting to do this is not going to buy that now.
Unless you have had 3 sets of those and busted 1/2 of those already - and in that case anyway you should be not buying that same crap - you would be better off enlisting someone who has done this a few times.
Cool.
Buddha.
OK Read your post more slowly.
Oil burn is not going to let you not rev - so first make sure your throttle cable isn't chewed up. Make sure its routed right and its opening fully.
Clutch - same thing - the adjuster at the lever sometimes gets the threads worn out - you need a new clutch perch in that case.
Oil burn is completely different than these 2. You can burn all the oil you want and it wont do what your bike did now.
Next - pinging at low rpm when cold but clears up when hot - really that's not how lean pinging occurs - it usually occurs when you're needing power, as in under load when you open throttle. That's the dangerous kind. You have some unrelated issues - you may have a jet set that's too lean, or even have low float level or vacuum leak.
Seriously take someone's help. Sort those out first. Oil leak/burn is a completely secondary issue, and I'd really not even bother with those (unless the leak is somewhere obvious like the alternator cover or something. Then get some help and put a gasket on it.
Cool.
Buddha.
Ditto to all the above Alex.
Sorry, I've been busy and not able to answer your calls.
Do the stuff Buddha mentioned. Rebuilding your heads and honing cylinders are huge jobs for a beginner, and chances are fair that you'll damage more things in the process.
Find someone to help you double check your carbs, float level; check all your lines to ensure no vacuum leak.
Then maybe do a compression and leak down test to check the status of your valves and piston rings. This will give you a better idea if you really need to rebuild your engine.
Ordering parts is fun, but can also be a complete waste of money if those repairs not needed.
I would say your bike has so many things wrong with it, you might as well do a full rebuild of the top end and carbs. I say this because it sounds like you don't know enough to diagnose what is wrong with the bike, so might as well jump into the deep end and set everything back to stock Suzuki spec. Buddha recently posted something to the effect of, "diagnosing things is hard, replacing things is easy." He is right. Just replace/reset everything and in the process you will learn enough to diagnose things in the future.
If you happen to screw it all up you will still have learned a lot and the bike was nearly a lost cause already. Go into a project of this magnitude being ok with the bike never running correct again.
When I was 20, I did a top end rebuild on my GS500 myself with 0 mechanical experience and just the Hanes and Clymer manuals for reference. I didn't do everything 100% correct but the bike did run in the end and I got 20,000 miles out of the rebuild before paying a shop to do it right later in life when I could afford it.
But....
Please tell me you are not planning to do top end work out on the street or in a car port are you?
You are going to need a clean, dry, safe place to do this work where you won't feel rushed to get it done. Triple check everything and go slow because you don't know what you are doing.
If you don't have such a place, get creative in getting the bike into your house/apartment. Unless you live in a walk-up apartment you should be able to figure something out with the help of a few friends. Take out the gas and oil and start taking off parts until the bike is small enough or light enough to get it where you need it to go.
When I did the same thing as you (rebuild with no experience) it took me a few months of tinkering with the bike after school. At the time I was in college and had some people help me lower the bike into an unused room in the basement of my fraternity where I could work on the GS over the winter without having to clean up my parts or tools every day. An experienced mechanic could do this in a weekend but it seriously took me several months (and then it was fun figuring out how to get a 400 lb motorcycle back up the flight of stairs).
FYI, you should also replace the copper washers that go on the head studs. They are supposed to be replaced with the other top end gaskets any time you take the head apart.
Quote from: The Buddha on May 15, 2020, 06:29:42 AM
Quote from: AlexPerkins on May 14, 2020, 08:15:05 PM
-Crescent 140pc tool set from Walmart
I am worried you're getting in over your head.
Someone wanting to do this is not going to buy that now.
Unless you have had 3 sets of those and busted 1/2 of those already - and in that case anyway you should be not buying that same crap - you would be better off enlisting someone who has done this a few times.
Cool.
Buddha.
Hey Buddha!
Thanks for being worried about me getting in over my head. I am haha.
I don't have a set of tools right now, hence why I bought that set. My friend uses Crescent a lot and says that it's a very affordable tool set that'll get most jobs done.
Quote from: The Buddha on May 15, 2020, 06:47:13 AM
OK Read your post more slowly.
Oil burn is not going to let you not rev - so first make sure your throttle cable isn't chewed up. Make sure its routed right and its opening fully.
Clutch - same thing - the adjuster at the lever sometimes gets the threads worn out - you need a new clutch perch in that case.
Oil burn is completely different than these 2. You can burn all the oil you want and it wont do what your bike did now.
Next - pinging at low rpm when cold but clears up when hot - really that's not how lean pinging occurs - it usually occurs when you're needing power, as in under load when you open throttle. That's the dangerous kind. You have some unrelated issues - you may have a jet set that's too lean, or even have low float level or vacuum leak.
Seriously take someone's help. Sort those out first. Oil leak/burn is a completely secondary issue, and I'd really not even bother with those (unless the leak is somewhere obvious like the alternator cover or something. Then get some help and put a gasket on it.
Cool.
Buddha.
Throttle Cable/Clutch Cable issuesOkay! Definitely the "not reving" problem is because of an issue with one of the throttle cables. I have absolutely no doubt about that.
Sorry if I made it look like I was connecting that with the oil consumption issue.
I'll replace those cables and check the routing when they come in asap.
Pinging IssueOnce I replace those cables, lube my chain, and replace the K&N filter, I'll make an appointment at MotoGuild and get some help in diagnosing the pinging issue, thoroughly checking out float levels, vacuum compromises, and jetting.
Oil Consumption IssueI am sick of going through half a quart to a quart of oil each ride.
Stacy also billows smoke on the street for a couple minutes when I start her which pisses off everyone around me. I'd like to stop this issue haha.
This is the main reason I want to do a top-end rebuild, replacing the gaskets, rings, and valve seals. Guess I gotta get some copper washers for the head studs as well.
Quote from: Endopotential on May 15, 2020, 10:55:00 AM
Ditto to all the above Alex.
Sorry, I've been busy and not able to answer your calls.
Do the stuff Buddha mentioned. Rebuilding your heads and honing cylinders are huge jobs for a beginner, and chances are fair that you'll damage more things in the process.
Find someone to help you double check your carbs, float level; check all your lines to ensure no vacuum leak.
Then maybe do a compression and leak down test to check the status of your valves and piston rings. This will give you a better idea if you really need to rebuild your engine.
Ordering parts is fun, but can also be a complete waste of money if those repairs not needed.
No worries David!
I will.
Thanks for the advice on these. It wouldn't be a full hone, just deglazing, so I assume it'd be less risky. Haha please, someone, tell me if I'm wrong.
When I pop into Motoguild to diagnose the pinging, I'll definitely do a compression test and smoke test.
Quote from: Bluesmudge on May 15, 2020, 11:16:17 AM
I would say your bike has so many things wrong with it, you might as well do a full rebuild of the top end and carbs. I say this because it sounds like you don't know enough to diagnose what is wrong with the bike, so might as well jump into the deep end and set everything back to stock Suzuki spec. Buddha recently posted something to the effect of, "diagnosing things is hard, replacing things is easy." He is right. Just replace/reset everything and in the process you will learn enough to diagnose things in the future.
If you happen to screw it all up you will still have learned a lot and the bike was nearly a lost cause already. Go into a project of this magnitude being ok with the bike never running correct again.
When I was 20, I did a top end rebuild on my GS500 myself with 0 mechanical experience and just the Hanes and Clymer manuals for reference. I didn't do everything 100% correct but the bike did run in the end and I got 20,000 miles out of the rebuild before paying a shop to do it right later in life when I could afford it.
But....
Please tell me you are not planning to do top end work out on the street or in a car port are you?
You are going to need a clean, dry, safe place to do this work where you won't feel rushed to get it done. Triple check everything and go slow because you don't know what you are doing.
If you don't have such a place, get creative in getting the bike into your house/apartment. Unless you live in a walk-up apartment you should be able to figure something out with the help of a few friends. Take out the gas and oil and start taking off parts until the bike is small enough or light enough to get it where you need it to go.
When I did the same thing as you (rebuild with no experience) it took me a few months of tinkering with the bike after school. At the time I was in college and had some people help me lower the bike into an unused room in the basement of my fraternity where I could work on the GS over the winter without having to clean up my parts or tools every day. An experienced mechanic could do this in a weekend but it seriously took me several months (and then it was fun figuring out how to get a 400 lb motorcycle back up the flight of stairs).
FYI, you should also replace the copper washers that go on the head studs. They are supposed to be replaced with the other top end gaskets any time you take the head apart.
Hey man! Thanks for the reply.
This is where I am coming from. I can accept that it may not run after I rebuild it.
I actually have a little space in the back of my outdoor hallway to store the bike/work on it. I was going to do it on the street and try to do some of the work at home. However, with this spot, I can work on my bike a lot. Do you think that trash bag covering the rest of the engine while it sits outside in my hallway spot and putting a motorcycle cover over everything will keep things in proper shape overnight?
Thank you, I will buy those washers asap.
Everyone, thank you so much for your time. I am so excited to do this project.
Please let me know if I am missing anything else for this process. I want to be able to cover all my bases, do meticulous, good work, and learn as much as possible.
Best,
Alex
The trash bag + motorcycle cover is not ideal,but probably fine as long as you don't live in a very dusty or humid area. Aside from dust and rust you also are going to have lots of pieces to keep track of. That can be annoying if you have to bring everything inside every time you finish working on the bike. But you make do with what you have.
Make sure you have a copy of the Clymer and/or Haynes manual. You will be referencing it a lot. If everyone on this forum owned at least one of those maintenance/repair manuals we wouldn't get 80% of the questions because they are already answered in the text.
I wasn't commenting on the quality of crescent brand of tools - I was commenting on you buying them this week and rebuilding the engine next week.
BTW if you want to work as a motorcycle mechanic and you show up to the shop with shiny new tools, the owner/foreman will instantly toss you out. I'm just saying, rebuilding the motor is a job for some of us crusty old people like me and even I have 2 mechanics and an engine shop as my support team not to mention this forum and dgyver 100 miles 1 direction and werase643 100 miles in the other direction.
Cool.
Buddha.
Doesn't Athena sell a engine "rebuild kit" that has all gaskets and washers etc.
Really fix it first - rebuild should not be a substitute for diagnosis and repair.
You're re-building the top end. That doesn't get you clean carbs, or jetting, or a clutch or cables or electrical.
Trouble shoot and fix all of those, and think if you're really needing that rebuild.
Where is it leaking from ? That may be separate from the rebuild.
You're fogging the block when cold ? but not when hot ? That's valve seals. If that is the only problem, I'd just live with it. Its such an inconsequential issue IMHO. Thicker oil may help as might some of those kluge additives.
Cool.
Buddha.
Having to check the oil every ride is not inconsequential.
My bike was burning 1+ quarts every 1000 miles and it drove me nuts having the check the oil every time I fueled up and keeping a quart of fresh oil on the bike. A top end rebuild fixed the issue completely. Was it the rings, valves, or valve seals? Doesn't matter to me -- the problem is fixed.
Alex's bike is burning even more oil and he wants to fix it. I think he can work through a top end rebuild, and a carb rebuild, and re-setting jetting air filter and exhaust to stock.
For someone not experienced enough to diagnose everything wrong with a bike: setting everything back to stock is the easiest way to get something running again. Following the step by step repair manuals is easier than actually knowing how all this stuff works well enough to diagnose things.
What's up guys,
About 2 weeks after my last post, I received all my parts in the mail and I was ready to start working on my bike. However, I came across another issue when attempting to get my bike from down a couple blocks to my place.
I lost my main key. The ignition was in the steering lock position.
I thought, "Oh well. I'll just use the spare."
When I tried the spare on the bike, it didn't work. I looked closer to find out that it was a blank!
So then I spent money on a few lock picking tools and started studying a lock-picking book, where I learned about wafer locks, the kind of lock that is in the ignition switch.
About a week after, the tools came in. On the second day of tinkering with the wafers, trying to open the lock, I decided to look up youtube videos about wafer locks to develop a deeper understanding in how they function and I came across this minute long video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvne9Ca3OY8
So I used that technique right after! I put the blank in and kept turning tension while slowly pulling the key out to lock the wafers in flush place. Then with the very tip of the key inside the plug, I turned it to the OFF position. Keep in mind it was in steering lock, so as I was pulling the key out, I was pushing into the ignition switch plug with the back of a lock pick tool. Definitely a little tricky.
I got it out of the steering lock! Right after, I pushed it up a hill, nearly dropped the bike till someone helped me get it all the way up to my block, then wheeled to to my place where my friend and I pushed it through a super narrow hallway to the workspace.
I replaced the air filter to stock, replaced the clutch cable, replaced the throttle cables, cleaned and lubed the chain, and rewired my ignition to a double hidden switch setup!
Right after, I went on a nice little ride to the great highway and back. I'm going to ride out to Big Sur this weekend to meet my best friend who is coming from Santa Barbara on his Harley. I think my bike will make it! Gonna bring about 3 quarts of oil.
Some photos: https://imgur.com/a/3nCW1ES
Nice work. Now keep an eye out for an engine on craigs-ebay. A swap is easier than a rebuild, and you can sell a rebuild needed one for almost about the same $ if you get lucky.
Cool.
Buddha.