The journey of a 23 year old and his GS500

[Endopotential]

Just to keep the party going...

I was able to help Alex out a bit yesterday.  We met up at Mot0Guild on Treasure Island, in the middle of SF Bay during a heavy rainstorm.  Really cool place to hang out for any moto heads.  They have big work stations and tools you can rent out, if you're not lucky enough to have your own space.

The bike is an '01 with 19k miles.  Decent condition except left exhaust header is crushed in about 40%.
Got the wrong carb rebuild kit, so ended up just taking them apart and cleaning the jets.  It had the 3 jets, but none of
the white plastic discs at the top nor PAIR trim, as I had on my '07.  Thinks looked OK, no gunk there.
Air filter with K&N inside stock airbox.  Decently clean as well.
Plugs were wet black with oil, left worse than right.  So we changed to brand new plugs.

Looked like a small oil leak coming from the central nubbin on the cam chain tensioner, which the PO had tried to seal up with silicone.  Some of that oil drained forward to front side of the engine. Hard to tell if all the oil leak could be attributed to just this, rather than cylinder heads.
We were a bit rushed for time, so I didn't have the luxury of triple checking things as I do at home.

Bike still ran a little rough after the cleanup.  Battery totally dead.  Exhaust still grey/white on startup; held paper at the end and no oil specks seen but it did smell like gas.  Eventually cleared up once bike warmed up after 5 min, but it did die a couple times unless we kept RPMs >1500-2000.

What would you guys do next?  We didn't have time to do valve clearance check.  Next up compression test?

Alex - forgot to tell you - you need to check gas tank.  Use a flash light to look inside the tank and make sure the gas is nice and clear, not rusty orange.  With more time, we also should have checked for vacuum leaks at all the carb joints and hoses.

[mr72]

Compression test first. And proactively replace all o rings, especially nthe intake boots. The crushed header and k&n together will make jetting very difficult.

[cbrfxr67]

Love seeing some gs teamwork!  applause!!

[Bluesmudge]

Did the K&N air filter have the restrictor ring in place? Did you get a chance to see what jets were installed when you cleaned them? K&N with no restrictor needs some jetting changes.

Probably best to set jetting back to stock, replace the K&N filter with a stock paper unit or Uni foam filter, and pick up the free exhaust in the for-sale section here to get rid of the dented header.

The oil leak looks like its the cam tensioner. Replace the tensioner and gasket when you check the valve clearances. If its not the cam chain tensioner leaking then its the cylinder base gasket. As mr72 says, you might as well save up and have the top end rebuild at that point since you have to disassemble nearly all of the top end to replace that gasket anyways. Don't be surprised if it costs more than $1,000 for a shop to do a top end rebuild in SF. I paid closer to $2k in Portland Oregon for a top end rebuild, general service/safety check, and dyno tune. My bike has over 40,000 miles though. 19k seems to early to need that kind of engine work.

[mr72]

mine had under 21K when it needed a top end rebuid. I thought I paid way too much for like $900, but it was just among many mistakes I made. SF is likely a whole different market.

[Endopotential]

Gonna guess that the jets were stock, as it didn't look like anyone had ever opened up the carbs before. 
So that would make them
2001+ Stock - 17.5 Pilots / 60 Mid Main / 127.5 Main

The K&N was the round cylindrical one that bolted into the airbox; not the oblong unit with two ports directly into the carb intake.
I didn't know about the restrictor ring. Is that some black rubber ring that would go into the neck?  Alex - go check 

[Bluesmudge]

I didn't know about the restrictor ring. Is that some black rubber ring that would go into the neck?  Alex - go check 

Yes, its a rubber ring that fits in snugly to the opening of the filter. You are supposed to install it if you have stock pipe and jetting. It is easy to remove the seat, the two tank bolts, and lift the tank a little to sneak a peak and see if its installed.

If the restrictor is not installed in the filter, the bike is probably running lean somewhere in the RPM range. Again, best to just go back to the stock filter as you have too many unknowns and the K&N doesn't filter very well anyways.

[The Buddha]

Gonna guess that the jets were stock, as it didn't look like anyone had ever opened up the carbs before. 
So that would make them
2001+ Stock - 17.5 Pilots / 60 Mid Main / 127.5 Main

The K&N was the round cylindrical one that bolted into the airbox; not the oblong unit with two ports directly into the carb intake.
I didn't know about the restrictor ring. Is that some black rubber ring that would go into the neck?  Alex - go check 

I believe its 130 mains on those, but its unlikely anyone swapped em out for smaller, so its probably stock.
Cool.
Buddha.

[Endopotential]

I thought the mains were marked 122.5, but that doesn't make any sense.  Chalk it up to my poor eyes, or fading of the tiny stamp.
So I'm betting they were the 127.5 stock

[AlexPerkins]

Hey everyone!

Sorry it's been a while. I've been riding Stacy till... I can't, which is now.
Yesterday I went for a ride and all of a sudden my throttle wasn't engaging. I was getting about 1.5rpm of rev with a full twist of the wrist. I checked the throttle cable housing on the handle bars and it is still intact. So the cable must be stretched. My friend, 3 Harley dudes, and I lifted Stacy into a truck and brought her back to her parking spot.

The oil leak/burn is insane. For example, I went through about a quart of oil going down to Alice's Cafe from SF.

I also noticed a small intermittent pinging sound when riding in first gear and letting go of the clutch. This stops once the bike is fully warmed up.

She does run lean in the upper rpm range, past 7k or so. Time to get back to stock intake and exhaust.

The clutch cable is also stretching/acting funny. I figure I better replace all three cables (both throttles and the clutch).

I want to do an at home overhaul of sorts. 
I have a list of things to do here with the materials under each one.

Please let me know if I'm missing anything for the overhaul.

I have ordered the parts listed below on Revzilla and Partzilla.

General Things
-Crescent 140pc tool set from Walmart
-3/8 torque wrench
-4in Hone(For head deglaze)
-Cover to shield Stacy while she's naked on the street.

Lube the chain
-Brush
-Cleaner
-Lube

Replace throttle cables
-Throttle Cable 1 & 2 Assembly
Replace clutch cable
-Clutch Cable Assembly

Replace Stock intake
-Filter Assembly

Replace gaskets down to Cylinder Head
-Piston Rings
-Clamp(to compress rings without removing pistons) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VISqGGMcBTc) Like this?
-Cylinder Head Cover Gasket
-Cylinder Head Gasket
-Cam Chain Tensioner Gaskets (Adjuster and front gasket)
-Cylinder Base Gasket
-Valve Seals

(I will buy a stock exhaust when I get the chance. I'll go back into the forums to find the one that someone recommended I grab.)

If you have any advice or guidance on this process. Please let me know!
The parts are supposed to arrive on the 20th of May

[The Buddha]

Hey everyone!

Sorry it's been a while. I've been riding Stacy till... I can't, which is now.
Yesterday I went for a ride and all of a sudden my throttle wasn't engaging. I was getting about 1.5rpm of rev with a full twist of the wrist. I checked the throttle cable housing on the handle bars and it is still intact. So the cable must be stretched. My friend, 3 Harley dudes, and I lifted Stacy into a truck and brought her back to her parking spot.

The oil leak/burn is insane. For example, I went through about a quart of oil going down to Alice's Cafe from SF.

I also noticed a small intermittent pinging sound when riding in first gear and letting go of the clutch. This stops once the bike is fully warmed up.

She does run lean in the upper rpm range, past 7k or so. Time to get back to stock intake and exhaust.

The clutch cable is also stretching/acting funny. I figure I better replace all three cables (both throttles and the clutch).

I want to do an at home overhaul of sorts. 
I have a list of things to do here with the materials under each one.

Please let me know if I'm missing anything for the overhaul.

I have ordered the parts listed below on Revzilla and Partzilla.

General Things
-Crescent 140pc tool set from Walmart
-3/8 torque wrench
-4in Hone(For head deglaze)
-Cover to shield Stacy while she's naked on the street.

Lube the chain
-Brush
-Cleaner
-Lube

Replace throttle cables
-Throttle Cable 1 & 2 Assembly
Replace clutch cable
-Clutch Cable Assembly

Replace Stock intake
-Filter Assembly

Replace gaskets down to Cylinder Head
-Piston Rings
-Clamp(to compress rings without removing pistons) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VISqGGMcBTc) Like this?
-Cylinder Head Cover Gasket
-Cylinder Head Gasket
-Cam Chain Tensioner Gaskets (Adjuster and front gasket)
-Cylinder Base Gasket
-Valve Seals

(I will buy a stock exhaust when I get the chance. I'll go back into the forums to find the one that someone recommended I grab.)

If you have any advice or guidance on this process. Please let me know!
The parts are supposed to arrive on the 20th of May

I am worried you're getting in over your head.
Someone wanting to do this is not going to buy that now.
Unless you have had 3 sets of those and busted 1/2 of those already - and in that case anyway you should be not buying that same crap - you would be better off enlisting someone who has done this a few times.
Cool.
Buddha.

[The Buddha]

OK Read your post more slowly.
Oil burn is not going to let you not rev - so first make sure your throttle cable isn't chewed up. Make sure its routed right and its opening fully.
Clutch - same thing - the adjuster at the lever sometimes gets the threads worn out - you need a new clutch perch in that case.

Oil burn is completely different than these 2. You can burn all the oil you want and it wont do what your bike did now.

Next - pinging at low rpm when cold but clears up when hot - really that's not how lean pinging occurs - it usually occurs when you're needing power, as in under load when you open throttle. That's the dangerous kind. You have some unrelated issues - you may have a jet set that's too lean, or even have low float level or vacuum leak.

Seriously take someone's help. Sort those out first. Oil leak/burn is a completely secondary issue, and I'd really not even bother with those (unless the leak is somewhere obvious like the alternator cover or something. Then get some help and put a gasket on it.

Cool.
Buddha.

[Endopotential]

Ditto to all the above Alex.

Sorry, I've been busy and not able to answer your calls.

Do the stuff Buddha mentioned.  Rebuilding your heads and honing cylinders are huge jobs for a beginner, and chances are fair that you'll damage more things in the process.
Find someone to help you double check your carbs, float level; check all your lines to ensure no vacuum leak.

Then maybe do a compression and leak down test to check the status of your valves and piston rings.  This will give you a better idea if you really need to rebuild your engine.
Ordering parts is fun, but can also be a complete waste of money if those repairs not needed.

[Bluesmudge]

I would say your bike has so many things wrong with it, you might as well do a full rebuild of the top end and carbs. I say this because it sounds like you don't know enough to diagnose what is wrong with the bike, so might as well jump into the deep end and set everything back to stock Suzuki spec. Buddha recently posted something to the effect of, "diagnosing things is hard, replacing things is easy." He is right. Just replace/reset everything and in the process you will learn enough to diagnose things in the future.

If you happen to screw it all up you will still have learned a lot and the bike was nearly a lost cause already. Go into a project of this magnitude being ok with the bike never running correct again.

When I was 20, I did a top end rebuild on my GS500 myself with 0 mechanical experience and just the Hanes and Clymer manuals for reference. I didn't do everything 100% correct but the bike did run in the end and I got 20,000 miles out of the rebuild before paying a shop to do it right later in life when I could afford it.

But....
Please tell me you are not planning to do top end work out on the street or in a car port are you?

You are going to need a clean, dry, safe place to do this work where you won't feel rushed to get it done. Triple check everything and go slow because you don't know what you are doing.

If you don't have such a place, get creative in getting the bike into your house/apartment. Unless you live in a walk-up apartment you should be able to figure something out with the help of a few friends. Take out the gas and oil and start taking off parts until the bike is small enough or light enough to get it where you need it to go.

When I did the same thing as you (rebuild with no experience) it took me a few months of tinkering with the bike after school. At the time I was in college and had some people help me lower the bike into an unused room in the basement of my fraternity where I could work on the GS over the winter without having to clean up my parts or tools every day. An experienced mechanic could do this in a weekend but it seriously took me several months (and then it was fun figuring out how to get a 400 lb motorcycle back up the flight of stairs).

FYI, you should also replace the copper washers that go on the head studs. They are supposed to be replaced with the other top end gaskets any time you take the head apart.

[AlexPerkins]

-Crescent 140pc tool set from Walmart

I am worried you're getting in over your head.
Someone wanting to do this is not going to buy that now.
Unless you have had 3 sets of those and busted 1/2 of those already - and in that case anyway you should be not buying that same crap - you would be better off enlisting someone who has done this a few times.
Cool.
Buddha.

Hey Buddha!

Thanks for being worried about me getting in over my head. I am haha.
I don't have a set of tools right now, hence why I bought that set. My friend uses Crescent a lot and says that it's a very affordable tool set that'll get most jobs done.

OK Read your post more slowly.
Oil burn is not going to let you not rev - so first make sure your throttle cable isn't chewed up. Make sure its routed right and its opening fully.
Clutch - same thing - the adjuster at the lever sometimes gets the threads worn out - you need a new clutch perch in that case.

Oil burn is completely different than these 2. You can burn all the oil you want and it wont do what your bike did now.

Next - pinging at low rpm when cold but clears up when hot - really that's not how lean pinging occurs - it usually occurs when you're needing power, as in under load when you open throttle. That's the dangerous kind. You have some unrelated issues - you may have a jet set that's too lean, or even have low float level or vacuum leak.

Seriously take someone's help. Sort those out first. Oil leak/burn is a completely secondary issue, and I'd really not even bother with those (unless the leak is somewhere obvious like the alternator cover or something. Then get some help and put a gasket on it.

Cool.
Buddha.

Throttle Cable/Clutch Cable issues
Okay! Definitely the "not reving" problem is because of an issue with one of the throttle cables. I have absolutely no doubt about that.
Sorry if I made it look like I was connecting that with the oil consumption issue.

I'll replace those cables and check the routing when they come in asap.

Pinging Issue

Once I replace those cables, lube my chain, and replace the K&N filter, I'll make an appointment at MotoGuild and get some help in diagnosing the pinging issue, thoroughly checking out float levels, vacuum compromises, and jetting. 

Oil Consumption Issue

I am sick of going through half a quart to a quart of oil each ride.
Stacy also billows smoke on the street for a couple minutes when I start her which pisses off everyone around me. I'd like to stop this issue haha.

This is the main reason I want to do a top-end rebuild, replacing the gaskets, rings, and valve seals. Guess I gotta get some copper washers for the head studs as well.

Ditto to all the above Alex.

Sorry, I've been busy and not able to answer your calls.

Do the stuff Buddha mentioned.  Rebuilding your heads and honing cylinders are huge jobs for a beginner, and chances are fair that you'll damage more things in the process.
Find someone to help you double check your carbs, float level; check all your lines to ensure no vacuum leak.

Then maybe do a compression and leak down test to check the status of your valves and piston rings.  This will give you a better idea if you really need to rebuild your engine.
Ordering parts is fun, but can also be a complete waste of money if those repairs not needed.

No worries David!

I will.

Thanks for the advice on these. It wouldn't be a full hone, just deglazing, so I assume it'd be less risky. Haha please, someone, tell me if I'm wrong.

When I pop into Motoguild to diagnose the pinging, I'll definitely do a compression test and smoke test.

I would say your bike has so many things wrong with it, you might as well do a full rebuild of the top end and carbs. I say this because it sounds like you don't know enough to diagnose what is wrong with the bike, so might as well jump into the deep end and set everything back to stock Suzuki spec. Buddha recently posted something to the effect of, "diagnosing things is hard, replacing things is easy." He is right. Just replace/reset everything and in the process you will learn enough to diagnose things in the future.

If you happen to screw it all up you will still have learned a lot and the bike was nearly a lost cause already. Go into a project of this magnitude being ok with the bike never running correct again.

When I was 20, I did a top end rebuild on my GS500 myself with 0 mechanical experience and just the Hanes and Clymer manuals for reference. I didn't do everything 100% correct but the bike did run in the end and I got 20,000 miles out of the rebuild before paying a shop to do it right later in life when I could afford it.

But....
Please tell me you are not planning to do top end work out on the street or in a car port are you?

You are going to need a clean, dry, safe place to do this work where you won't feel rushed to get it done. Triple check everything and go slow because you don't know what you are doing.

If you don't have such a place, get creative in getting the bike into your house/apartment. Unless you live in a walk-up apartment you should be able to figure something out with the help of a few friends. Take out the gas and oil and start taking off parts until the bike is small enough or light enough to get it where you need it to go.

When I did the same thing as you (rebuild with no experience) it took me a few months of tinkering with the bike after school. At the time I was in college and had some people help me lower the bike into an unused room in the basement of my fraternity where I could work on the GS over the winter without having to clean up my parts or tools every day. An experienced mechanic could do this in a weekend but it seriously took me several months (and then it was fun figuring out how to get a 400 lb motorcycle back up the flight of stairs).

FYI, you should also replace the copper washers that go on the head studs. They are supposed to be replaced with the other top end gaskets any time you take the head apart.

Hey man! Thanks for the reply.

This is where I am coming from. I can accept that it may not run after I rebuild it.

I actually have a little space in the back of my outdoor hallway to store the bike/work on it. I was going to do it on the street and try to do some of the work at home. However, with this spot, I can work on my bike a lot. Do you think that trash bag covering the rest of the engine while it sits outside in my hallway spot and putting a motorcycle cover over everything will keep things in proper shape overnight?

Thank you, I will buy those washers asap.


Everyone, thank you so much for your time. I am so excited to do this project.

Please let me know if I am missing anything else for this process. I want to be able to cover all my bases, do meticulous, good work, and learn as much as possible.

Best,
Alex

[Bluesmudge]

The trash bag + motorcycle cover is not ideal,but probably fine as long as you don't live in a very dusty or humid area. Aside from dust and rust you also are going to have lots of pieces to keep track of. That can be annoying if you have to bring everything inside every time you finish working on the bike. But you make do with what you have.
Make sure you have a copy of the Clymer and/or Haynes manual. You will be referencing it a lot. If everyone on this forum owned at least one of those maintenance/repair manuals we wouldn't get 80% of the questions because they are already answered in the text.

[The Buddha]

I wasn't commenting on the quality of crescent brand of tools - I was commenting on you buying them this week and rebuilding the engine next week.
BTW if you want to work as a motorcycle mechanic and you show up to the shop with shiny new tools, the owner/foreman will instantly toss you out. I'm just saying, rebuilding the motor is a job for some of us crusty old people like me and even I have 2 mechanics and an engine shop as my support team not to mention this forum and dgyver 100 miles 1 direction and werase643 100 miles in the other direction.

Cool.
Buddha.

[The Buddha]

Doesn't Athena sell a engine "rebuild kit" that has all gaskets and washers etc.

Really fix it first - rebuild should not be a substitute for diagnosis and repair.
You're re-building the top end. That doesn't get you clean carbs, or jetting, or a clutch or cables or electrical.

Trouble shoot and fix all of those, and think if you're really needing that rebuild.

Where is it leaking from ? That may be separate from the rebuild.

You're fogging the block when cold ? but not when hot ? That's valve seals. If that is the only problem, I'd just live with it. Its such an inconsequential issue IMHO. Thicker oil may help as might some of those kluge additives.

Cool.
Buddha.

[Bluesmudge]

Having to check the oil every ride is not inconsequential.

My bike was burning 1+ quarts every 1000 miles and it drove me nuts having the check the oil every time I fueled up and keeping a quart of fresh oil on the bike. A top end rebuild fixed the issue completely. Was it the rings, valves, or valve seals? Doesn't matter to me -- the problem is fixed.

Alex's bike is burning even more oil and he wants to fix it. I think he can work through a top end rebuild, and a carb rebuild, and re-setting jetting air filter and exhaust to stock.

For someone not experienced enough to diagnose everything wrong with a bike: setting everything back to stock is the easiest way to get something running again. Following the step by step repair manuals is easier than actually knowing how all this stuff works well enough to diagnose things.

[AlexPerkins]

What's up guys,

About 2 weeks after my last post, I received all my parts in the mail and I was ready to start working on my bike. However, I came across another issue when attempting to get my bike from down a couple blocks to my place.

I lost my main key. The ignition was in the steering lock position.

I thought, "Oh well. I'll just use the spare."

When I tried the spare on the bike, it didn't work. I looked closer to find out that it was a blank!
So then I spent money on a few lock picking tools and started studying a lock-picking book, where I learned about wafer locks, the kind of lock that is in the ignition switch.

About a week after, the tools came in. On the second day of tinkering with the wafers, trying to open the lock, I decided to look up youtube videos about wafer locks to develop a deeper understanding in how they function and I came across this minute long video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvne9Ca3OY8

So I used that technique right after! I put the blank in and kept turning tension while slowly pulling the key out to lock the wafers in flush place. Then with the very tip of the key inside the plug, I turned it to the OFF position. Keep in mind it was in steering lock, so as I was pulling the key out, I was pushing into the ignition switch plug with the back of a lock pick tool. Definitely a little tricky.

I got it out of the steering lock! Right after, I pushed it up a hill, nearly dropped the bike till someone helped me get it all the way up to my block, then wheeled to to my place where my friend and I pushed it through a super narrow hallway to the workspace.

I replaced the air filter to stock, replaced the clutch cable, replaced the throttle cables, cleaned and lubed the chain, and rewired my ignition to a double hidden switch setup!

Right after, I went on a nice little ride to the great highway and back. I'm going to ride out to Big Sur this weekend to meet my best friend who is coming from Santa Barbara on his Harley. I think my bike will make it! Gonna bring about 3 quarts of oil.

Some photos: https://imgur.com/a/3nCW1ES