I've only got 650 miles on my '04 GS500F and already have a problem. I think it was my fault though, so I'm not upset at the bike. Here's the story:

I was riding on a hot day and stopped at a store to get a bottle of water. I took my gloves off because it was just too hot and I put them under the seat, and I had to press down really hard to get the seat to snap in. I started riding home on the freeway and I got to the canyon turn off where it is significantly cooler than where I was and I decided to put my gloves back on before I traversed through the canyon. I pulled over into a McDonalds parking lot, got off my bike, and tried to pop the seat up - it wouldn't pop out. I tried turning the key so hard that it actually bent, but I was able to bend it back.

After this I gave up and got back on, and I hit the starter switch and nothing happened. No engine turnover, nothing. I was able to get it to start by bump-starting it, but of course this is a pain. After I got home I tried a different key and that didn't work. I was also able to get a friend of mine to put some force down on the seat while I turned the key to get my gloves back.

So my question is this: Did I mess up some wire connected close to the battery (which is where my gloves were) or did the starter switch just die on me somehow?

Thanks for the help

has ur gloves got any metal bits on em..this could have touched your battery and shorted something??.....

No they don't have any metal bits. Also, the battery works just fine. When I put the key in the lights turn on and everything.

Quote from: BobbleboyMake sure your bike is not in gear,  if you have the side kickstand down. It will not start.

Made sure on both of those...

Look at the Ron Ayers 2002 Wiring Harness diagram.

Here are a couple of possibilities:

1) Perhaps you dislodged the diode (Item 2), which would affect the neutral switch.

2) You may also have popped open the connector to the sidestand switch. (Item 15)[/list:u]For more ideas, see the following diagram from the Clymer manual:

(If I recall correctly, John Bates spotted a small error in this diagram.  But it should be good enough to get you started.)

If you get really stuck, trace through the full wiring diagram.  It's a little dated (1990-1996) but unless I hear differently it should apply to the later models as well.

Quote from: Kerry
(If I recall correctly, John Bates spotted a small error in this diagram.  But it should be good enough to get you started.)

Yes,

1. the anode (bottom in Fig. 32) of the left diode should connect to the neutral indicator bulb.  

2. the sidestand relay is totally wrong.
Look at Figure 27 on page 271 for the correct wiring.

Quote from: John Bates

Quote from: Kerry
(If I recall correctly, John Bates spotted a small error in this diagram.  But it should be good enough to get you started.)

Yes,

1. the anode (bottom in Fig. 32) of the left diode should connect to the neutral indicator bulb.  

2. the sidestand relay is totally wrong.
Look at Figure 27 on page 271 for the correct wiring.

That would be THIS one:



It's too bad the simpler diagram couldn't be as accurate as the more complex one.  Sigh.

I have a similar experience.  The bike was dumped gently on the left scraping mostly the fairing, bar end, and left chain adjuster. Then, after driving home, they stalled it in the driveway and it would not turn over.    Later when it cooled off, I checked sidestand switch pushed in, neutral, clutch in, and it started right up. The next day, I drove it a while, turned it off and it would not turn over. I push started it twice on the way home.  Headlights burn bright.

Since it runs with a push start, but won't turn over with the starter, I conclude it is either a bad starter or one of the interlocks is preventing current to the starter. Since it runs, isn't the ground wire connected ok?

I printed the Sidestand Interlock diagram, but had trouble tracing the wiring since everything is wrapped in black. It would seem easiest to start with a meter checking current between the starter and the starter motor relay to tell if any interlock is preventing current to the starter.

Are there easy electrical check places on this bike without a lot of disassembly or ruining the weatherproof wiring wraps? For instance, the sidestand switch seems like an integrated unit, where would be easy access junctions and how would you electrically test it?

Quote from: ScottCI printed the Sidestand Interlock diagram, but had trouble tracing the wiring since everything is wrapped in black.

You only need to trace the wiring from the sidestand switch up to the first connector.

* Pull that connector apart.

* Witht the sidestand down, connect an ohmmeter across the contacts on the Sidestand switch half of the connector.  The reading should reflect "infinite" resistance.

* With the ohmmeter still attached, retract the sidestand.  The resistance reading SHOULD go down to 0 or a single digit -- say 3 ohms.

* If the reading does not change, you may need to unwrap the wires after all (or inspect the switch) to discover the break or other fault.[/list:u]

You may also want to test the clutch switch in a similar manner, if your bike is a late-enough model to have a setup like the following:

Detach the wires and measure across the metal tabs that they were connected to.  You should get an infinite resistance reading with the clutch lever untouched, and a low resistance reading with the lever pulled in.

Quote from: ScottCIt would seem easiest to start with a meter checking current between the starter and the starter motor relay to tell if any interlock is preventing current to the starter.

Review the full color wiring diagram.  The ONLY thing preventing interrupting current between the battery and the starter motor is the starter relay itself.  (See THIS POST.)  Still, your point is well taken.  The meter can be used at each interlock to see why current is not getting to the starter relay.

Quote from: ScottCAre there easy electrical check places on this bike without a lot of disassembly or ruining the weatherproof wiring wraps?

Look for connectors, and match them up with the various diagrams already mentioned to make sure that you're testing what you think you're testing.  Use the ohmmeter to test for resistance inside a disconnected circuit / device.  Use the DC Volts setting to test for voltage between the battery and a still-connected device.

Quote from: ScottC
Are there easy electrical check places on this bike without a lot of disassembly or ruining the weatherproof wiring wraps? For instance, the sidestand switch seems like an integrated unit, where would be easy access junctions and how would you electrically test it?

I don't have extensive experience actually working on the bike (SO SOME OF MY SUGGESTIONS MAY BE A BIT IMPRACTICAL) but from a little bit of working experience and much study of the ckt I'd say it's not easy.  For just the reasons you stated.  Hidden parts, hidden wiring.

I have been studying Clymer's manual and find it has misleading wiring diagrams and incomplete trouble shooting procedures. But it looks like it is helpful to locate components and to test some components  out of circuit. Clymer's approach is to first test the basic things, battery, fuse.  Then using an ohm meter test the individual components, then last, test the wiring to all the components, I assume with an ohmmeter, but he doesn't say how.

If you don't feel comfortable working with a live ckt then Clymer's method is the way to go.  Just pull each component or it's associated connnector (see Kerry's previous post for some great pictorial methods) and check with an ohmmeter. Then if all the components check out, check the wiring with an ohm meter after disconnecting the battery.

If I were trouble shooting a no start problem like this I would first check the battery then jumper the starter with 12V to verify the starter is working and of course visually check the fuse. Then I would start at the battery with a voltmeter and work progessively through the ckt to the start relay looking for 12V at each point along the way.  This procedure will check both the component and wiring.

For example:
to check for 12V at the input side of the fuse, pull the fuse and probe the input terminal with the voltmeter. To check the output side of the fuse and it's wiring to the ignition sw, pull the connector at the ignition switch and probe the red wire pin. Etc.

Work with the bike on the center stand so if the engine cranks the bike  won't go anywhere.  Also disable the engine by removing  the plug wires. Make each test set-up, then turn the ignition switch on momentarily so the battery is not run down by the lights.

The starting ckt is wired from the battery through the following seven components (see Fig. 27 in Kerry's previous post):

Check for 12V at the following points (1 through 6):

1. fuse (check the red wire at the ignition sw connector)

2. ignition switch (with the ignition sw on, check the orange wires at the sidestand relay connector)

3. sidestand relay contacts (sidestand down or transmission in neutral, check the orange-blue wire at the engine stop switch) (see NOTE below)

4. engine stop switch (in the RUN position, check the orange-white wire at the start switch)

5. start switch (start switch DEPRESSED check the yellow-green wire, the one that goes to the start switch, at the clutch switch)

6. clutch switch (with the clutch DISENGAGED and the start switch DEPRESSED, check the yellow-green wire, the one that goes to the clutch switch, at the start relay)

TURN THE IGNITION SWITCH OFF
7. start relay winding (check for ground on the black-white wire)

these all form the operate path for the start relay.

NOTE:
The sidestand relay contacts (No. 3 above) won't close unless the sidestand relay is operated by either the sidestand switch or neutral switch.  

So when reaching No. 3 above, if the sidestand relay contacts aren't closed I would then check the two operate paths for the sidestand relay:

TURN THE IGNITION SWITCH OFF

1a. sidestand switch (check for ground on the black-white wire at the sidestand switch) sidestand up and transmission in gear

1b. sidestand switch (check for ground on the green wire at the sidestand relay) sidestand up and transmission in gear

2a. neutral switch (at the diodes, check for ground at the blue wire, transmission in neutral)

2b. diode (at the sidestand relay, check for ground on the green wire, sidestand down and transmission in neutral)

The last step would be to pull the start relay and test it.

Edit:
Changed paragraph "Work with the bike on the center stand .....etc."
Changed paragraph "If you don't feel comfortable ..... etc."

John Bates's and Kerry's advice are from some of the wisest sages you will find regarding GS500's.  But maybe since this is a brand new '04 you should just take it back to the dealer and have them fix it.  Shouldn't you still be under warranty?  You didn't wreck, drop, or really mistreat the bike in any way, so I don't see why this isn't a warranty issue.  At 650 miles, did you just have your 600-mile service?  Maybe the dealer knocked a wire loose or something - you just never know.

I'd be worried if a little excess force on the seat could cause something to break that would render my bike "starter-less".

I dunno, perhaps it's just me but I'd take it back to the dealer and let them fix it.

mines done the same thing.....(i guess, i only read the title)....but i just fiddled with some wires and pulled on some stuff and plugged it back in....havent had a problem since.

I made a list of checks from your advice and when I got to checking the clutch switch wires shown in your picture, they seemed loosened (perhaps beginning with the left side crash and slide). When I firmly pushed them in again, everything worked as is should! Seems so easy now.

For those still interested, I will walk you through what else I checked before that in a followup message.

REMOVE BODY TO SEE STARTER MOTOR RELAY

To get to many of the electrical components on the GS500F, you need to remove the rear body work. First, use a 12 mm wrench (the toolkit has a 10/12 mm open wrench) to remove the two bolts and the rear handle. Now you can see two hidden bolts for the body. Remove the four of these 10mm bolts and you can pull the body wide enough to free it from its retainers and lift it up and back. It will not come off yet because the lock connects it, but this is far enough to now see the electrics.

LOCATE STARTER MOTOR RELAY

The starter motor relay is slid over two tabs on the side of the battery box. It is encased in soft rubber and holds a yellow 20amp fuse in plain view which is the spare. There is a red and green cover over the real fuse. Also, the red-positive wire from the battery is connected to the starter motor relay directly as a red-covered connector on the bottom of the relay assembly. Out the top comes a similar black wire that heads forward to the center of the engine. It disappears under a sheet metal cover on top of the center of the engine which is the starter motor cover #24 in http://www.ronayers.com/fiche/300_0322/crankcase_cover/crankcase_cover.cfm

You can wriggle the relay assembly off the battery box tabs being careful not to uncover and touch the red-positive wire to other metal.

CHECK FUSE

Once you have it off, it is easier to remove the fuse cover without breaking the fragile tabs that hold it on. Check that the fuse wire is intact (like the spare one) and reinstall it and pit the cover back on.

TEST STARTER

First put the bike on the centerstand and in neutral and switched off (you can also pull the spark plug wires) to ensure it does not lurch forward when the starter engages. [Thanks guys for the safety reminder!] Pull back the black wire cover and connect a jumper cable to it. The starter should turn over the engine whenever you clamp the other end on to the red-positive battery terminal.  This test bypasses all the safety switches that disable the starter. Mine worked fine.

TEST SIDESTAND SWITCH

I tried the ohmmeter test described above on the green connector flopping around above the starter motor relay. The wire from this went down the center of the bike and was retained on a frame member before it went to the left to the sidestand. It contained the specified green wire, but also a black/white which I assume is a ground run back up to find a good ground connection. When I connected my cheap radio shack autosensing digital meter, it seemed to wander and then settle on zero no matter what position the sidestand was in.

TEST CLUTCH SWITCH

I had more luck with the ohmmeter on the clutch switch terminals. There was definitely a change from some numbers to all zeroes when the clutch was changed. [Then I put the wires back on tighter and started the bike, oh well.]

NEXT STEPS

Well, my bike is back in action, so I am putting it together. I learn a little more each day, and am very thankful to those who responded with help, especially John Bates and Kerry. The black covering on everything and also some of the wiring retainers have got to go in order to see some of the wire routings or else when I take some of the switches apart. That and your lists and a study/revision of the wiring chart will get me to a good test procedure when the next part fails.

Also, I think I need a better tester. Maybe a non-digital ohmmeter. I was remembering other circuit testers using a battery powered continuity tester for this, if I could find/make one. Something for the toolbox along with a good repair manual which I need to send for.

Thanks for saving me a short conversation with my mechanic [no doubt after waiting a few days first]. I am hoping to hear good news from dufoes who had similar troubles.

You won't believe this guys.

Well since I couldn't figure it out on my own, I took it to the shop and guess what? It was the clutch actuator wire that had come loose. All I would have had to do was stick it back in. I feel stupid!  :dunno:

Thanks for all your input anyway though. I appreciate it.

dufoes

Quote from: dufoes...........It was the clutch actuator wire that had come loose......

Is that one of the wires in Kerry's photo in this thread?

Yes it is the same thing I believe, but for some reason on my bike it is set up slightly differently. I overlooked it.