Quote from: FlashI can easily rotate the intake valve buckets, but the two exhaust valve buckets won't budge. What's even more perplexing is the fact that the right exhaust valve has at least the minimum spec valve clearance :dunno:

Hmmm.  That IS perplexing.  

Quote from: FlashI figure, unless someone has any ideas on this matter, I will have to unbolt the front camshaft to remove the buckets entirely.

I would modify that and suggest that you LOOSEN the camshaft bolts.  You could remove them entirely, but make sure that the sprocket on the cam shaft doesn't skip a link or two on the camchain.  (If you don't entirely remove the bolts there's no chance of a problem there.)

You said "remove the buckets entirely".  You meant "remove the shims", right?  I wouldn't even know HOW to remove the buckets.

Tell you what.  Try this:

   EDIT: WARNING!    
I have not tried the following procedure myself, and I now have reason to believe that it's the WRONG thing to do.  (See the Idiot! Bent valve. thread.)  Try it at your own risk!!

1) Loosen the camshaft bolts until you can rotate the bucket and gain access to the notch.  That notch really is important.  I hope you have a teeny screwdriver or something to put in there, to lever the shim up and out when the time comes.

2) Rotate the engine until the cam lobe is pushing the shim/bucket in question DOWN as far as it will go.

3) Eyeball the space between the rim of the bucket and the camshaft above it.

4) See if you can find or fashion a stout piece of metal that will JUST fit (vertically) in that space while standing on its edge.  It should have a clean, rectangular cross-section so it will ride nicely against the camshaft, push down solidly on the bucket rim, and not "wander over" and get hung up on the side of the bucket (or on the top of the shim).

5) Insert the metal into the space and rotate the engine until the cam lobe points away from the shim/bucket.  Do what you must to KEEP the metal on its edge; it needs to accept the substantial pressure exerted by the valve spring and keep the bucket in the DOWN position.

6) With the cam lobe pointing away from the shim you will have as much clearance as you're going to get without loosening the camshaft bolts.

Quote from: FlashAny recommendations on a torque wrench when I bolt it back on? what is the range (lbs/ft) we need to get for the GS500?

Here are the fasteners that I always torque down, and the torque values for them:

Front axle nut
36 to 52 N-m ... 27 to 38 ft-lb

Rear axle nut
50 to 80 N-m ... 37 to 59 ft-lb

Front brake caliper mounting bolts
30 to 48 N-m ... 17 to 35 ft-lb

Engine mounting bolt nuts (when I install/remove case guards)
60 to 72 N-m ... 44 to 53 ft-lbs[/list]

Here are some others that I have been known to torque down:

Valve cover bolts
13 to 15 N-m ... 10 to 11 ft-lb

Exhaust header bolts
9 to 12 N-m ... 7 to 9 ft-lb

Handlebar clamp pinch nuts
8 to 12 N-m ... 6 to 9 ft-lb

Fork clamp bolts (top yoke)
18 to 28 N-m ... 13 to 21 ft-lb

Fork clamp bolts (bottom yoke)
25 to 40 N-m ... 18 to 30 ft-lb

Oil drain plug
20 to 25 N-m ... 15 to 18 ft-lb[/list]

And here are some that I haven't messed with yet, but would certainly torque down if I did:

Shock absorber mounting bolts
40 to 60 N-m ... 30 to 44 ft-lb

Suspension linkage rod and arm bolts
70 to 100 N-m ... 52 to 74 ft-lb

Swingarm pivot nut
55 to 88 N-m ... 41 to 65 ft-lb

Alternator rotor bolt
110 to 130 N-m ... 81 to 96 ft-lb[/list]

BTW, that last entry is by far the largest torque value in the manual.  The only others that come close are the "Primary drive gear nut" in the engine (90 to 110 N-m ... 66 to 81 ft-lbs) and the "Suspension linkage bolts" listed above.  The vast majority of fasteners need less than 60 N-m ... 44 ft-lbs of torque.

Quote from: Flashedit: Which one would you prefer/recommend & why? --> $10 Clicker torque wrench (10-150 ft. lbs.) or $30 Beam torque wrench (0-150 ft. lbs.)
both are accurate within +/- 4%

The first torque wrench I bought was the 1/2" Craftsman unit you linked to.  I chose not to go the "clicker" route because of its worthlessness at low torque values.  (Play with it in the store - the clicker simply doesn't kick in until you get up to some hefty torque values.)  I used the Craftsman for 2 or 3 years and was happy with it.  There were  only 2 "downers":

1) If I wanted to check small-to-mid-range torque values I had to use small sockets which my set only had in 3/8" drive versions.  So I had to buy a 1/2" to 3/8" adaptor, which made me uneasy about measurement errors.

2) In several situations the wrench was just too long and more awkward than it needed to be.

My solution?  I bought the Craftman's "little brother" - the 3/8" beam torque wrench!  (It's listed in the sidebar on the page you linked to.)  Here is a picture of both wrenches at last year's sale - when the MSRP for each wrench was $5 less than it is now.... :x



And here are the two scales - 1/2" wrench first:





As you can see, the scale on the 3/8" wrench offers higher precision.  And the shorter handle just may prevent you from unintentionally twisting off the fastener you're trying to tighten!

Flash wrote:
I can easily rotate the intake valve buckets, but the two exhaust valve buckets won't budge. What's even more perplexing is the fact that the right exhaust valve has at least the minimum spec valve clearance  

Hmmm. That IS perplexing. >>>>>

And a pain in the butt too!  I've got the same problem with the same valve!  Bought my 02 GS in Sept 03 with 4k miles on the clock.  This spring, I checked the valve clearences with 8k on it and found the 2 intakes and #1 (left) exhaust valve to be OK.  The right exhaust valve had about .008" clearance.  Wow, could hear a valve ticking on start up, but everything was quickly OK as bike warmed up.  Smooth and quiet.

I tried to turn the bucket with everything I could think of including a couple of the wife's crochet hooks grabbing the notch and pulling hard on it.  It wouldn't budge.  The bucket is tight in the head and loosens quickly when warm up starts.  Not wanting to tear it down, I buttoned it up and used it all summer including the trip to the mountains in June.

Now I have 20k miles on it and recently replaced spark plugs again.  As I always do, I checked compression with the old finger in the hole process and was good pop on #1 cyl and then found no compression on the #2 cylinder.  That exhaust valve was stuck open.  I let it set a day (used the 97) and then put plugs back in and all was OK.  Started up and it stopped ticking and smoothed out in less than 30 sec.  A little heat loosened it up again.

I feel I should correct this problem before spring, I'll be using the 97 to splash around in the salt water again this winter.  If I pull the exhaust valve camshaft, I haven't got any idea yet on how I'll get that tight bucket up out of the head to free it up.  Anyone have any ideas on how to get that bucket out w/o pulling the head?

The bike still runs like new as soon as it starts to warm up and there is no tappet noise or rough idle that would be there when valve is open.  I'm thinking of maybe pulling the camshaft with the engine hot so I can lift the bucket out with a magnet.  Pulled the cover on a CB750K with a hot engine 20 years ago to check the valves hot, but I was in my youthful early 50's then.   :lol: Not sure I can do it fast enough now with my arthritic fingers.  

Ok guys. I am thoroughly disgusted right now, but before I rant I would like to thank Kerry for loaning his valve shim checking/replacing kit to me on short notice . I received it yesterday and didn't get started on my bike until after midnight (much more peaceful that way). Here is my progress report:

Good News
-- the valve shim tool and everything else Kerry sent me worked like it was supposed to and I was able to get the two exhaust valve shims out for measurement.

Bad News
-- both exhaust valve shims measure 2.14 and 2.16 mm respectively. Guess what, Kerry says Suzuki doesn't manufacture shims any smaller than that. Therefore, I have a valve clearance of <.038 mm, I can't put smaller shims to increase this gap, and both of the buckets they sit in won't budge either  

Really Bad News
-- I stripped the threads on one of the camshaft cover bolt well. It all started when I found out the intake camshaft was not aligned properly with the exhaust camshaft. Apparently, the repair manual says there is supposed to be 18 teeth from a particular arrow marking on the exhaust camshaft to the intake camshaft. Mine suprisingly enough was set at 19 teeth in between. So I follow the manual on how to disassemble the camshafts and put it back together. It was farely easy, but when I went to torque the bolts with my newly purchased torque wrench the 3/8" adapter would not let it clear the frame for the exhaust camshaft. So I had to do it by hand  :x  :x  :x

Conclusion
-- I guess I am going to have to take it to the Suzuki dealer and have them loosen the valve springs or something to alleviate the pressure on  shim buckets and have them rethread for the camshaft cover bolt.

Is this going to be ok to ride 15 miles to the dealership in this condition?

I guess I won't have my bike ready for my 1st Track Day (one week away) after all All this headache and frustration is just adding more fuel to the fire. Boy, I can't wait to sell the GS and get myself a 2005 SV650s

I can do the thread repair for you if you get strapped for cash and the dealer wants too much.  You'll have to ship me the head though.

Probably easier just to have the dealer take care of all you other stuff at once.  But just in case they want $50 bucks and you aint got it..you can send it to me.

L8r

If you have ever tapped a hole you can rethread it yourself in a couple of minutes.  It's one of those things that you beat your head against the wall after learning how to do it because you have paid a shop $50 to do it in the past.

You need to teach yourself how to use helicoils!  You will save thousands of dollars over a lifetime.

Here's how.  Buy yourself a Helicoil kit.   www.helicoil.com  It's the exact same thing they use at the motorcycle shop.  Exact.  Contact your local nut and bolt store and they will have the exact kit you need for the exact metric thread that is stripped.  You probably won't spend over $15 for the kit that includes everything you need to do the job, except for tapping fluid, just a special fluid to help you make perfectly smooth taps and saves wear and tear on your taps.  I use Rapid Tap(nut and bolt store will have something like it).  Make sure you get the right tapping fluid for the metal you are tapping(i.e. steel vs. stainless vs. aluminium).

Drill the hole with the included drill bit, tap the hole with the included tap, screw in the helicoil, and your done.  One tap, that's it.

After reading this thread I am certain my bike needs a valve check and more properly adjustment, but, besides shims and tools what else do I need? new valve cover gasket? what else?

Quote from: TRI am certain my bike needs a valve check and more properly adjustment, but, besides shims and tools what else do I need? new valve cover gasket? what else?

Here is the package that's making its way around the country (U.S) right now.  Except for the generic tools needed to get the tank and valve cover off, this set covers just about everything.



I would be surprised if you need a new valve cover gasket.  If you're careful when you take it off you should be able to reuse it.  You may need a new O-ring or two for the valve cover bolts, but I just replaced my first one - after removing the cover several times.

Would you care to receive a copy of my (rough-edit edition) How To video?  I don't know what the postage would be, but I can look into it.  If you can play a Windows Media file from CD I could send you one the day after I get your address.  $.71 plus postage.  If you want a DVD-R version ($.92 plus postage) you'll have to wait for a week or more while I spruce it up.

Quote from: KerryHere is the package that's making its way around the country (U.S) right now.  Except for the generic tools needed to get the tank and valve cover off, this set covers just about everything.

WOW! It looks so clear that I feel like if i had already adjusted the valves... I guess I'll need some shims, but seems better tol buy them once the clearance is measured...

Quote from: Kerry
I would be surprised if you need a new valve cover gasket.  If you're careful when you take it off you should be able to reuse it.  You may need a new O-ring or two for the valve cover bolts, but I just replaced my first one - after removing the cover several times.

Good to know, I just hated to disassemble something and get stuck 'cause didn't have a new O-ring or gasket.

Quote from: Kerry
Would you care to receive a copy of my (rough-edit edition) How To video?  I don't know what the postage would be, but I can look into it.  If you can play a Windows Media file from CD I could send you one the day after I get your address.  $.71 plus postage.  If you want a DVD-R version ($.92 plus postage) you'll have to wait for a week or more while I spruce it up.

Not at all, I'll send you my address. Any, VCD or DVD, would do, pls let me know how much does postage cost to Mexico City.