Well last night I checked the clearances on my valves

Right Exhaust 0.09mm just out of spec.
Left Exhaust  0.11mm too loose.

Right Inlet <0.04mm probably too tight.
Left Inlet <0.04mm again, too tight.

The feeler guages I have only go down to 0.04mm.
I guess I now have to get the shims out and measure their thickness.
How much do the caliper things for this cost?
I have a set of vernier <sp?> callipers, would these be accurate enough,
or will I need a set of dial ones?

Also without the tool for pushing down the cam follower bucket, how do i
get the little buggering shims out?

Then I have to put it all back together, ride to the bike shop to get the
new shims before taking it all to pieces again for re-shimming.

WHY can't the GS have valve clearance adjusting screws like my old bike?

Quote from: red_philHow much do the caliper things for this cost?
I have a set of vernier <sp?> callipers, would these be accurate enough,
or will I need a set of dial ones?

Sorry - I can't help you with prices in the UK.  :dunno:  If you can reasonably interpolate to the hundredth of a millimeter with the vernier calipers they should be fine.  If not....

Quote from: red_philAlso without the tool for pushing down the cam follower bucket, how do i get the little buggering shims out?

Hmmm.  Would you mind if I saved some effort by quoting a PM I recently sent with some answers to similar questions?

Quote from: KerryFrom: Kerry
To: [Withheld]
Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 11:53 pm
Subject: Re: valve question

Quote from: [Withheld]since i don't have the little tool, could i press down on the shim and the follower and then that would give me some clearance to take out the shim?

That is exactly how the Motion Pro valve tool works, so if you can figure out another way to do the same thing you'll be in business - without loosening the camshaft journal cap bolts. Here are some ideas that I am aware of.

From the Haynes manual:

Homemade Valve Tool

Using the Tool[/list:u]
From the old GStwin board:

Another homemade tool  (You could even use an uncut wrench if it will fit around the camshaft.)[/list:u]
From my own brainstorming:

* Buy or fashion some rectangular "key stock" that will just fit between the camshaft and the bucket when the camshaft lobe is pushing directly down on the shim. After putting the "key" in place, rotate the engine IN THE CORRECT DIRECTION until the cam lobe is pointing away from the shim.

* Another idea I just had is to use a pair of small metal wedges. Put one of the pointy edges on top of and facing the other one - in between the camshaft and the bucket rim. Use whatever means you have available to force the wedges together and the bucket down.[/list:u]Whew! Now that you've made it through all of that, let's talk about the quicker tool-less method(s). Usually not quicker than using a valve tool, but certainly quicker than making one!

Quote from: [Withheld]probobly loosen the camshaft bolts so that would give me some more room

Yep. It may be enough just to loosen the bolts, but if things are really tight you may have to remove them. If it starts to look like removal is the only option, try releasing the tension on the camshaft tensioner first. If that doesn't work then zip-tie your camshaft chain to one (or both) of the sprockets BEFORE you remove the bolts.

To actually get the shim out, spin the bucket until the "notch" is accessible.  Insert something very thin like a small knife blade or a jewelers / glasses repair screwdriver through the notch and under the shim and pry it up. Once the shim "pops" up, either grab the shim with tweezers of use a small magnetic pickup tool to suck it right out of the bucket.

Quote from: [Withheld]...do you know at how many ft-lbs of torque should i tighten them back?

8 to 12 Newton-meters
OR
6 to 9 ft-lbs

Quote from: [Withheld]should the motor be warm when i check the clearance?

NO! It should be absolutely "cold" when you check the clearances. The manuals recommend leaving it to sit overnight if it's been ridden. These clearances change as the motor heats up, so you have to measure them the same way they do at the factory.

GOOD LUCK!

One last thing.  You said that your feeler blades are too thick for a couple of the clearances.  Is there ANY clearance on those valves?  Can you rotate the bucket with your finger?  If so, you're probably OK for now on those tight valves.

If not, you won't know the clearance until you put in a thin enough shim to GET some clearance.  If you can afford it, buy a shim that's 4 or 5 sizes thinner than any of the ones you have now.  After you put it in you can measure with as thick a blade as necessary to determine the clearance.  Having such a "test shim" will prevent you from having to make multiple trips to the shop to pick up successively thinner shims until you arrive at the right size.

Just in case you haven't seen my new-ish shim selection chart, take a look at it HERE.

Thanks for that,
I think I may have a bicycle multitool made from 2 - 3 mm steel with a 'U' shaped cutout for something or other.
I think if I cut the tool so it has a flat edge opposite this 'U' I could make a sort of cradle that would sit under the cam shaft and hold the bucket down,
then when I rotate the lobe away it should keep the bucket down.

I'm thinking I may have to shell out for a set of dial callipers.
The ones I have are only really good down to 1/10th of a millimetre.

Hi Phil,

Just a reminder, put some rag down into the camchain chamber just in case you drop something, it's an awfull lot of work to get a dropped shim out of the crankcase.

Have fun.

Now THAT is a great tip.
I wouldn't have thought of it but it is so simple and as you say can
prevent a huge headache.

Tis ok,
I just  got them out.

Tools needed:
1 large flat bladed screwdriver,
1 jewlers screwdriver,
1 pair of tweezers,
1 rag,
1 torch,
1 19mm spanner.

I compressed the buckets by turning the engine until the cam pressed the bucket down.
Next I slid the screwdriver between the camshaft and the bucket edge.
Then I rotated the cam back off the bucket until it was held down by just the screwdriver.
Then it was a careful pry loose and pull out of the shim.
Finallly I pushed the bucket back down with the cam to release the screwdriver.

Repeat for each shim.

I used the rag to stop anything falling down into the crank case,
just as well as otherwise I would have had to recover a jewlers screwdriver from down there.
I also marked each shim with a permanent marker, so I know which is which when I measure them.

Just curious whether you followed Ed89's suggestion in this post.

Sorry for not mentioning it sooner - I didn't realize you would end up using the "depress / insert tool / rotate" method.  If you rotated the engine only enough so the cam lobe was no longer touching the shim you should be OK regardless.  :dunno:

BTW, congrats!

Quote from: red_phil
I compressed the buckets by turning the engine until the cam pressed the bucket down.
Next I slid the screwdriver between the camshaft and the bucket edge.
Then I rotated the cam back off the bucket until it was held down by just the screwdriver.

To quote an old post (http://www.gstwins.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=111874#111874), it's good to insert the tool and temporarily back-off the cam for exhaust valves.  For intake valves, it's probably safer to turn the cam forwards a bit to remove the shim.

The difference is probably not necessary on the GS; it sounds like you can rotate the cam a bit forwards-then-back, or backwards-then-forwards on either valve, and it should work OK.  The one thing we know doesn't work, is to prop open the bucket with the tool, then rotate the cam completely around (forwards or backwards)!

I think I rotated the intakes backwards to get the cam off the shim,
and rotated it forwards to get it off the exhaust shims   .

On the bright side, I had figured the valves may clash, so only moved the cam the minimum rotation off the shim to get it out, about 45 to 60 degrees.  Also I took it very slow turning the engine from the stator nut,
trying to feel if there was any resistance like valves hitting piston head or each other.

I guess It's fingers crossed time and we'll see if it runs after all this.

On the topic of using vernier calipers to measure shim thickness: This is not such a clever idea, even if you can read them to a hundreth of a millimeter (which is doubtful anyway).

The problem is that shims wear (if they do) in the center, where they get in contact with the cam lobe. The vernier caliper thus would not measure the thinnest point of the shim.

So the correct tool for measuring shims would be a micrometer. They aren't that much more expensive than a good vernier caliper anyway (but not as versatile either, I give you that.)

QuoteNext I slid the screwdriver between the camshaft and the bucket edge.
Then I rotated the cam back off the bucket until it was held down by just the screwdriver.
Then it was a careful pry loose and pull out of the shim.
Finallly I pushed the bucket back down with the cam to release the screwdriver.

this is just like how i do it, only rotate just enough to get the tool inplace then back the opposite direction JUST enough to clear the shim of the lobe, replace the shim, and reverse the direction once again to get the tool out. never rotate completely around with a valve compressed, always take your time when turning the crank and do it with the sparkplugs out, its much easyer to turn and you have bette control should you have valve clash (less likly to bend a valve if they touch)

I made a tool from an extra cheapy 11/16 open end wrench(keep forgeting you folks across the pond call them spanners) that i had laying around.