My understanding of the current Social Secuirty 'crisis' is that in 75 years the system will be 20% underfunded if we do nothing. That doesn't seem like a 'meltdown' to me. Surely we are creative enough to fix the system without a total overhaul.

Prior to the 1960's Social Security was hands off and worked very well. During the 60's the borrowing against Social Security, that 'joerocket' talked about, began and that's when the trouble started. I beleive the blame is unfairly heaped on the statistic that people are living longer. It seems to me that the problem was created by Washington not by modern medicine.

Off topic, but I gotta comment on joerockte's "Religion is bad for everyone NOT in their group". I fully agree but I would generalize that statement not to religion but to fundamentalism. I think the greatest threat in the world and to rational societies are fundamentalists of all religions. Once you are convinced that your belief is 'right' and ordained by God then no act of imposing your will is too heinous (i.e. suicide bombing, stealing land in the name of a deity, and 10 commandments in a State courthouse, just to name a few).

Von Vester:
They are both problems.  Age and stealing from the pot.  When SS first started it was a 1% tax.  Now it's 12%.  When it first started peoples life expectancy was only a few years longer than when they began drawing benefits.  Now it's 10+ years.  Before there were plenty of young people coming up into the workforce to support these SS recipients now all we have is immigrants.  Families used to be much larger than they are now.  So, we NEED immigrants to fill in the worker gap.  Also we have the baby boomers who will be retireing very soon.  There just isn't enough money to pay them all for 10+ years at the current tax rate or benefits rate.  Look at it like a wave in the water.  Before there was this big wave of workers to pay for the retirees.  This wave has moved on and now the wave IS the retirees and there isn't enough water behind it to pay their way.  Its a REAL problem and the fix isn't going to be easy.  I see the amount of salary taxed going up.  I see the tax rate going up.  I see benefits changing from indexing on wage growth to indexing on CPI.  I see the age to draw going up.  I see NO additional limitation on immigration both legal and illegal.  Hopefully everything will work out.  It usually does.

Social Security seems to have delivered on the original intent of ensuring that people who retire have some means of support for at least the basic necessities. And unless you live in an area exclusive only to those with very high resources, you only need look around to see that there are quite a few people subsisting on SS who otherwise would be homeless or dead. I believe that shifting the whole burden of saving for the future to the individual would be the catalyst for a future social catastrophe of immense proportion. Many people in this country will never earn much above minimum wage and due to the costs of living will never be able to invest much in real dollars towards the future. In other words, if people aren't saving now they probably won't be saving much, if any, were the total burden of savings dropped in their lap. I know there are many arguments and much rationalization as to why people "should" save or that it's nobody's fault if people don't earn more so they can save, but the reality is most people of low income cannot or will not save or achieve higher earnings due to a lot of external influences. As to someone saying that the people who retire with huge sums of money but draw social security being fair...that is debatable. I know that I am not so selfish that were I drawing, say, 6000 a month that I wouldn't be above foregoing my SS so that others less fortunate could at least exist with no worry of how to pay for food or housing. I think SS can be "salvaged" (I put quotes there because I don't KNOW that SS needs to be salvaged) through other means than by shifting the burden in the direction the current administration wants to. Ah well, just wishin' I could ride, love that miniscule GS and I have missed this forum.

C.......

C... welcome back, hope you are able to ride the white owl sometime soon.

cernunos,

I think you and many others are missing an important point.  The plan isn't to have you save ADDITIONAL money in a private account.  It's to take part of what you're already paying in SS tax and sending it to a "fund" instead of to the official SS program.  

Therein lies the problem...  Markets go down.  If SS is in fact a system to "keep the elderly alive" then it needs to be a government program and NOT a stock market gamble.  All this is, is a gamble to keep benefits up while keeping the tax paid the same.  SS run by the government doesn't "really" make any interest.  However, it does now that it was raided and treasury bonds were put in there.  These bonds pay between 5-7%.  The historical stock market gains are 10%.  But, since the money is in the stock market and NOT government debt, the government is the winner because it's not costing so much.  

If the stock market was a SURE THING, this would be a wonderful thing.  But it's not.  If the market takes a dive it could cost the government a LOT more that it would have if it had left everything alone and just increased the SS revenues.  Because, the government still must ensure these people are not thrown out on the streets to starve.

And most important, what costs the government costs US, we are the suppliers of the governments money.

SS is in trouble because the retiree population and the money they're going to be receiving is going up exponentially.  The number of workers is going up VERY slowly.

Rocker, I do understand that the intent is to shift half (at the moment) of the SS witholding into private "funding" accounts where the funds could, in theory, draw interest and be utilized at present and for a future period of time to bolster economic markets in the country. But due to the fact that we cannot be certain the investments will return a higher future value it creates a feeling of insecurity on the part of the worker...specifically the low-wage earner. This in turn shifts the burden of saving to the worker because of fear that the future worth will not exist. These low-income workers will not save, either because they cannot or will not due to external influences. Some of this will be because a worker does not even understand that they now have a volatile funding account...complacency or ignorance if you will...end result is the same. What I am thinking is that we need to ensure that SS is still there in it's present form for the future retirees unless a better, sure-fire, plan is introduced for the worker. No matter what, I still love the Baby GS and I love this forum.

C.......

Well I'll be f%&ked.............welcome back Cernunos.........I'll be looking forward to raking your ass over the coals whenever possible. Thank God your alright and I never thought I'd be happy to see your sorry ass but I am.............I truly am............Sincerely, Wilson

p.s. shaZam! on the UN and shaZam! on the liberal pussies of society---long live the White Owl

AHHHH...Old Mr. Wilson, I am glad to be back and look forward to sparring with your likes once again...reading your torrid, despicable right-wing replies and your scathing commentary...what would this forum be without it?? Thanks and remember...love that Baby G and this forum.

C.......

damn c welcome back,                                . did you ever figure out what was ailin ya? again welcome back. ya see when you disappear like that, it makes me do weird things like ohhh i dunno buy a harley?  :lol:

Yami, did you go and buy a Harley?? If so, good show and I am envious. If not, why not? Thanx for caring. Love the small toddlin' GS and the Grand GStwin forum.

C.......

This was an interesting proposal to fix SS. It was, however, just a forwarded email. So I don't know if it's valid. Interesting though...

QuoteIT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU ARE REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT!

KEEP IT GOING!!!!

2008  Election Issue!!

GET A BILL STARTED TO PLACE ALL POLITICIANS ON SOC. SEC.
This must be an issue in "2008".

SOCIAL SECURITY

Perhaps we are asking the wrong questions during election years.
Our Senators and Members of Congress do not pay into Social Security and, of course, they do not collect from it.
You see, Social Security benefits were not suitable for persons of their rare elevation in society.   They felt they should have a special plan for themselves. So, many years ago they voted in their   own  benefit plan .
In more recent years, no congressperson has felt the need to change it. After all, it is a great plan.
For all practical purposes their plan works like this:
When they retire, they continue to draw the same pay until they die.
Except it may increase from time to time for cost of living adjustments..
This is calculated on an average life span for each of those two Dignitaries. For example, Senator Byrd and Congressman White and their wives may expect to draw $7,800,000.00 (that's Seven Million, Eight-Hundred Thousand Dollars), with their wives drawing $275,000.00 during the last years of their lives.
Younger Dignitaries who retire at an early age, will receive much more during the rest of their lives.
Their cost for this excellent plan is $0.00. NADA....ZILCH....
This little perk they voted for themselves is free to them. You and I pick up the tab for this plan. The funds for this fine retirement plan come directly from the General Funds;
"OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK"!
From our own Social Security Plan, which you and I pay (or have paid) into,-every payday until we retire (which amount is matched by our employer)-we can expect to get an average of $1,000 per month after retirement.
Or, in other words, we would have to collect our average of $1,000 monthly benefits for 68 years and one (1) month to equal Senator! Bill Bradley's benefits!
Social Security could be very good if only one small change were made.

That change would be to:
Jerk the Golden Fleece Retirement Plan from under the Senators and Congressmen. Put them into the Social Security plan with the rest of us ..
then sit back.....
and watch how fast they would fix it.

Does anybody REALLY think that it would matter?  Do you know the average net worth of these people?  Trust me, they REALLY won't be counting on SS for their retirement.  Poor people don't get elected to these positions.  And if they do, they don't stay that way for long.

What bothers me about this "crisis" is that it is the result of poor planning. Baby boomers paid into the system, especially as the wave went through the 1980s. Unfortunetly, that all went into the general fund and was spent (and then some!). Ever wonder why the 80s were "prosperous". SS  was never designed to function as a "pay as it goes" system and if it was it was horribly poor planning. This "crisis" was in obvious development 25 years ago.

Privitization isn't the answer. Some of us are old enough to remember the 80s. I think we all got a bit smug. It seemed you couldn't NOT make money in the market. That sense drove it to unsustainable levels. A lot of people lost some very serious money. In addition, my investments have been totally flat for 10 years. My net gain has finally gotten back to 0! What do you think will happen when everyone starts investing their retirement into the market? What do you think will happen when that wave startes pulling it out when they do retire? And that's eliminating the possibility of external events, like 9-11.

I agree, though, that medicare is a much more immediate concern. IMO, there are some places the capitalist system shouldn't be and one of them is healthcare. Did you know Mexico has socialized medicine? Ever Mexican citizen is covered. OK, the facilities may not be as glamorous as ours in the US and waiting list for "non critical" procedures can be long, but that's a pretty sad comment.

The two are tied. Don't get smug and think that those who get caught broke in their retirement are a bunch of loosers. Granted, fiscal management isn't most American's forte, but I've personaly known  people who did everything right: saved money for their retirement, payed off their house, low debt, planned for their entire lives and then were wiped out by serious illness. And all HAD medical coverage. Think about that one.

relevant thread resurrection
heck ive tried to get into SS for a while due to health tanking. thanks to regs putin place last 2 years. im working on year 2 of the process now. if something doesnt get going. i wont be either

It is a beyotch to get SSD! It took me 3 years while being evaluated for heart  transplant. I was told since I was young and educated that I couldn't possibly be disabled. Begging for help has been the hardest job I've ever done!

Mary

Quote from: Toogoofy317 on June 22, 2011, 11:57:29 PM
It is a beyotch to get SSD! It took me 3 years while being evaluated for heart  transplant. I was told since I was young and educated that I couldn't possibly be disabled. Begging for help has been the hardest job I've ever done!

Mary

way thigns are goin i may not make i tto approval lol