Quoteyou think I can drill a 3/8th hole in it with a hand drill ... and further ... you think I can tap it

It would be tough to do on the bike and you probably couldn't get it dead straight. You might be better with two smaller holes and an retention plate of some sort. Best bet would be getting a worn out shaft and experimenting with it before committing the real thing. That does assume much though.

Quotesecond to las pic...... the neutral indicator....

That's very clever. And if this is fed into a "diagnostic connector" made available to a data logger....along with a buffered signal generator output, one could derive an interesting set of data. Add some exhaust temp measurement....

Man I've got to quit thinking and do more wrenching.

i have one of them for a GR650....and the 5 speed indicator light set
just need to add one more wire and a 6th light.....

or look at the tach and speedo and determine gear.... :mrgreen:

Quote from: starwalt

Quoteyou think I can drill a 3/8th hole in it with a hand drill ... and further ... you think I can tap it

It would be tough to do on the bike and you probably couldn't get it dead straight. You might be better with two smaller holes and an retention plate of some sort. Best bet would be getting a worn out shaft and experimenting with it before committing the real thing. That does assume much though.

Using a Worn out shaft ... I think you pretty much defined that 89 of mine ... Though its transmission is fantastic ... I am evidently very good on transmissions ... Never had one go bad on any bike touch wood ...
Cool.
Srinath.

QuoteJohn Bates - You got my attention.  How does the neutral indicator work? :dunno:

The mechanical operation of the neutral indicator is the shift drum, but the electrical aspect is simple enough. If you have a Haynes manual, it shows the replacement of the o-ring. Page 8.14 photo 22.9a shows the spring and plunger, connected to the shift drum, that  rotate across the contacts of the indicator.  Let's just call this gadget a rotary switch with one contact. The other contact will be the system return (ground via chassis/engine).

Changing of gears causes the shift drum contact to move in a circular fashion that, in turn, stops on separate contacts of the switch. The grounded wire feeds back into the wiring harness and without loss of generality it attaches to the bulb for illumination.

The gating diodes are in this circuit, but those have been discussed previously and represented so very well with your simplified drawing.   (A super contribution I used often.)

From this, a sufficiently redesigned/modified instrument cluster engine performance/operation is begging to be made. I wonder how much market there is for such an "upgrade?"

Quote from: starwaltIf you have a Haynes manual, it shows the replacement of the o-ring. Page 8.14 photo 22.9a shows the spring and plunger, connected to the shift drum, that  rotate across the contacts of the indicator.

For the Haynes manual photos relating to the Neutral Switch, CLICK HERE.

Quote from: starwalt......... If you have a Haynes manual,........

I don't . I have Clymer.  The photos in Clymer aren't close enough to show any detail, however there is a drawing which is decent.  Also, thanks to Kerry's post I see exactly what you are saying.

Looks like a shift indicator could be worked out if:

1. The six fixed contacts actually do make electrical contact with the spring loaded contact.  An ohmmeter can tell us that.

2. Wires can be soldered or otherwise attached to the fixed contacts.

3. Additional wires can be routed/dressed out of the engine cover.

This could be a fun project.

Quote from: John Bates
Looks like a shift indicator could be worked out if:

1. The six fixed contacts actually do make electrical contact with the spring loaded contact.  An ohmmeter can tell us that.

Well they don't. :x  :x  :x  There are no electrical contacts for the six gear positions.

Does anyone know of a six speed bike that has a gear selection readout. Preferably a Suzuki? :dunno:

QuoteWell they don't.

Nuts! I wonder if anyone other than Gerhard in South Africa has pulled the neutral indicator out? I might as well and take pics since mine is not running.

This also makes me wonder if contacts could be added if a suitable 6 gear indicator is not available? Hmmmm.

Not sure if this helps any...but the TL's and GSXR's have different ohm readings for each gear selection which is used by the ECU. Not familar with how they are read but I do have the wiring diagrams for the TL.

Quote from: starwalt...........
This also makes me wonder if contacts could be added if a suitable 6 gear indicator is not available? Hmmmm.

It's part no. 33. on this view.

As you can see, there are raised islands in the casting which appear to be the locations for the six gear positions.  They could be drilled to accept  contacts with attached wires, assuming they actually do line up with the rotating contact.

Quote from: dgyverthe TL's and GSXR's have different ohm readings for each gear selection

Thats cool. Then we would need only one wire run to the electronics.  I wonder if it physically fits the gs? I looked up the part numbers for the neutral switch and the gear shift drum on the TL and GSXR. They are both different  than the GS.

It could be that they use a potentiometer to determine gear position on the bikes dgyver mentioned. Here's the hidden side of the neutral indicator showing the single brass contact. Note the "C" shape where the gear drum contact has been moving.


And the familiar side showing the possibilities:


If I had a spare, I would dig a little deeper into the gadget. Maybe another xray is due here? I think some small brass rods of the correct diameter could be inserted into the round "stumps" to indicate the positions. Their tops would have to be mushroomed out to prevent falling into the works and they would have to be sealed in to prevent oil leaks.

With six hall effect sensors and a magnet moving on the gear drum...now that would be an upgrade mess!  

From those pictures, It looks very similar to the sensor as shown in the TL parts fische. I do not have a pic of the actual sensor but I can probably get one.

I just picked this up off of eBay
We'll see if it fits.

Now that is interesting! The neutral point seems to be the same as the GS. The three wires seem to imply a pot. Your DVM or VOM should provide some more interesting information.

Great catch!

Man I wish my camera made pics that nice. I've got to direct some hobby money to a  better camera and upgrade.

If there is a pink wire in the harness then that is for the gear indicator to the ECU. I am pretty sure that the GSXR and TL wire diagrams are the same for this part.

After looking at the part schematics, it looks like the GS, TL, GSXR share the same type of pin pick-up, just different gear indicators. Looks like this should work.  

I was worried about the symmetry of the mount/round section. The GS is very symmetrical. This looks a little different.

John will know soon enough.

Quote from: starwaltI was worried about the symmetry of the mount/round section. The GS is very symmetrical. This looks a little different.
..............

Yes, the part looks very similar but the dimensions are probably different.
It also looks like a three wire system.  

Did you notice on the 2004 GS500F electrical schematic that it is a three wire system?  However the microfiche pictures a switch that looks like the single wire version of the GS500E.

Is something "fiche" here?
:dunno:

This time I have been working with the turn signals and the turn signal relay/flasher circuit.

Here's the relay with its cover removed...


Notice the circuitry inside. A resistor, capacitor, wire and a relay coil buried under the large wire. If your relay is not burned up and is not acting correctly, you may have just a bad connection.
Here I am soldering the pinch-type connection for the resistor and capacitor. This type of connection is similar to an IDC (insulation displacement connection) except without insulation. Vibration is the bane of a simple mechanical connection.

Another problem is arcing of the Normally Closed contact of this relay. Here I am inserting a piece of paper between the contacts. Sliding this back and forth like a towel removes carbon and residue from arcing. In a severe case, use 600 to 1000 count abrasive paper or cloth.


With that done, I gator clipped together a test circuit on the bench to make sure the relay still worked...


For the benefit of the group, here is a simplified schematic of the turn signal circuit with the relay shown in the dashed rectangle.


The relay circuit is a simple capacitor charge-discharge type. That is why with only one lamp, the relay does not cycle. Insufficient current for a quick flash rate. It may cycle but would be **very** slow at it.

I wonder what the insides of an automotive type is like. I remember the heated bi-metal units from years ago. Real power hogs!

Blink-a-blink-a-blink-a.....

There is a heavy duty wagner 552 for like $6.99 or so, regular wagner 552 is like $1.99 ... and its made of transparent cover ... Its got electronics in it ... Chips, wafers, and somehitng like that coil If I remember ...
Cool.
Srinath.