I can solder like a pro.... is welding much different?  It will be used for welding thinnish stuff... like the frame/stuff to the frame... stuff like that.


I head about mig... tig... what do I need? amps?

steel....MILLER XP130...135(what ever is new model)   about $700 for a good setup with Shielding GAS

AL....pay somebody who does TIG....your return is like 30-40 yrs on a TIG setup....i pay a TIG guy 20-40 per job and i don't use him much
or go to COM COL and take a welding class...buy a 3-5K decent TIG RIG and practice ALOT to get good....

I would only go with a tig.  You can get one for a good price and weld anything with them.  Using one is like dancing, it takes sometime to get use to and get good at it.  I have welded steel,ti and AL with the same setup.  If you are not going to weld AL then you don't need as big of a welder
Jake

Whatever you get make sure it can weld aluminum because not all rigs can. Mig is generally messier(splatter) than Tig but cheaper.

ok...  should be.. mostly... steel.  


I would like to spend less than $300 on it... if possible... something from harbor freight maybe?

note my TIG welder guy.....uses a MIG when welding most steel.....much easier and still a good solid weld

The cheapest setup you can buy that you can get replaceable parts for because it's a common brand is the mig setup from Home Depot.  The Lincoln Weld Pak 100.  I think it's around $350, $100 for the mig attachments and then you have to buy an owner bottle from a welding supply store for around $80 for the smallest size.  That's the one I have.  It's only 20% duty, which means that I can use it for 2 minutes then I have to let it sit for 8 or else it will overload and the welds will start to get cooler and cooler and won't penetrate as well.  

If I were to do it all over I would save my money a little longer and buy a tig just because the welds are so damn pretty.  You can get some nice looking welds with mig but nowhere near as pretty as tig.  Also, you can do anything with tig; aluminium, stainless, Ti, etc.  And look at it this way, you can use your welder for the next 40 years.  Alot of shops have old, old arc welders from the 60's...very common sight.  Also, with the new electronic ballast technology the welders are 5-10 times lighter than the welders in the days of old because they don't have miles and miles of heavy windings in the coils.

I would stay away from the Harbor Freight migs because you might have a hard time finding parts for it if something ever goes wrong.

Quote from: DomThe Lincoln Weld Pak 100.  I think it's around $350, $100 for the mig attachments and then you have to buy an owner bottle from a welding supply store for around $80 for the smallest size.  That's the one I have.  It's only 20% duty

I think the Weld Pak "100" is actually an 80A welder, not really 100A .

Dom mentioned Harbor Freight.  If you are okay with their service (sometimes loooong delivery times, sometimes out of stock, etc.), then they sell reconditioned Hobart 135s for about the same price ($380).  There are also Lincoln 135s to be had for <$400+s/h (try froogle.com, ebay, etc).

But, that's out of the price range you mention.  The problem with <$300 MIG welders, is that the really cheap units may have parts break or wear-out, and then you have a 50-lb. boat anchor.


BTW, as far as your questions: thin stuff will need MIG; Amps shouldn't be needed for thin steel plate.  That 80A Weld Pak "100" should do up to 1/8".  The 135A should do 3/16".

I weld 1/4" with mine all the time and still get good penetration.  I made a trailer hitch have towed in excess of 3000lbs with it.  I know that it's plenty strong and I would be much more likely to shear off the either the hitch pin or the 5/16" bolts where it attaches to the undercarriage before the welds failed.  One way to compensate for a cooler mig(less amps) is to use 2x as much bracing on any given object.  Because if you assume that with the WeldPak 100 you are getting 1/8" max penetration and on a Hobart 135 you are getting closer to 1/4", the added bracing would add up to the amount of the penetration that the Hobart 135 is capable of.

You can tell when you are getting good penetration because the beads  
are flatter.  Too hot of a setting on your machine and the bead will be so flat that it will actually drip down through whatever you are trying to weld, 1/4" plate metal for example, and a hole will form.  Look at below!

I agree with Rema though, no point in buying the Weldpak 100 if the Hobart 135 or Lincoln 135 are just a few bucks more.  They will have settings to weld anything mine will and more.  Mine's great for alot of the small parts I have to fabricate at my work, just a little on the wimpy side.

The great thing about mig though as opposed to tig is that it's fast.  Usually  
people use tig for steel when it has to be pretty...I want it for the versatility.  With mig there is very little slag as opposed to arc/stick, fluxcore, gas, so it's best for applications where the object is going to be powdercoated.  Most everything you can buy in stores that is steel and welded was mig welded...proly because it's fast.  Anyway, let us know what you decide.  Welding is fun.  You'll be making all kinds of crazy crap and scavenging metal from everywhere.  Bewar.  Metal is pretty expensive...especially from Home Depot or Ace...

Quote from: se7enty7I can solder like a pro.... is welding much different?  It will be used for welding thinnish stuff... like the frame/stuff to the frame... stuff like that.


I head about mig... tig... what do I need? amps?

Hello se7enty,

Maybe with your soldering experience you should consider oxy-acetylene welding.  This is still a viable form of welding.  There are many very experienced people who feel that OA is an excellent way to learn how to weld.  They state that you can effectively learn how to create the pool of molten metal and then, properly using the torch and welding rod,you can learn how to move this molten puddle forward to create the weld bead.  OA is very slow compared to MIG so it is easier to see what is happening with the molten pool.  With OA you can weld, cut, braze, braze weld, silver solder, and heat all with one outfit. 

Recently I purchased a Smith Cavalier welding kit. This is a very nice small aircraft style torch set consisting of the torch(AW1A), cutting attachment(AC309), regulators(H1700 series), three tips, check valves, googles, striker, and instructions. This gear is made in the USA by Smith Equipment and carries a lifetime guarantee. ( http://www.smithequipment.com/products.htm ) If you go to the Smith website you will not find the Cavalier set  listed.  This set has been discontinued but the individual items are still available. A good source for OA tanks is the Indiana Oxygen Co.(  http://www.indianaoxygen.com/order.html ) They sell online, shipping is free, and you get proper documentation for the tanks so you can exchange them for full ones at your local shop.

With the torch outfit mentioned and a set of midsize tanks you are in the same price range as a Hobart Handler 140 (Mig)with a tank.

My big plans with my OA setup is to weld up some luggage racks like the "Five Star" racks that are no longer available. It will be awhile though because I have lots to learn.  Researching this subject led me to OA and the welding of aircraft 4130 tubing.

Here are various sites that have information about OA:

- Here is a site with some interesting books and film clips.  Do a search for welding and oxy acetylene.                                                                                http://www.archive.org/movies/details-db.php?collection=prelinger&collectionid=16649

- Here is a source for good instructional welding DVD's.  The OA video of the molten metal pool and its manipulation is very good. http://www.weldingvideos.com/index.html

- Here is one OA tutorial. http://www.esabna.com/EUWeb/OXY_handbook/589oxy1_1.htm

- Here is a site with good information, FAQ's and products.  Make sure you check out all of the different areas. http://www.tinmantech.com/

Well, I hope this gives you another option to consider.  Good luck.


Bob

I was wondering how long it would take before somebody mentioned OFW...   IMO it's the best way to learn how to weld.  Anyway, if you're doing any work in steel you have to have a cutting torch.  There's just no way around it unless you get a plasma cutter = big$$$.  A torch comes in handy all the time.  Burning steel, heating stuck stuff, preheating cast iron, etc. etc. etc.

For most light steel OFW welding can't be beat.  It's a very proven process, and has been used in the aircraft business since the beginning.  Where a TIG shines in in Aluminum work.  For anything over 1/8" you'll want an electric welder.

I have reservations about MIG welding.  I've seen plenty of it in production applications and have never been really impressed with it.  It requires very close control to obtain good allowables on MIG welds.  I know plenty of engineers that will not specify MIG.  I wouldn't dare use it on an aircraft.  MIG is insanely easy to learn though.  It's just point and shoot.  And unlike stick welding, you can actually see the weld metal.

SMAW (stick welding) on the other hand is a very developed process.  It's been around forever, is used everyday all over the world, has much higher allowables, and you can find a used buzz box for under $100.  I bought mine off a welding school for $135, it had been used less than 10 hrs.  Don't worry if it's old.  All that's in there is a transformer and a switch.  If the thing welds, it's fine!  Worst case you'll have to hit the local welding supply and pick up some cable, a new clamp, and a stinger.  An old Lincoln 225 with some 6011's and 6013's will weld any thickness steel you can drag home.

If I were you, I'd go buy a torch rig and fish for a used buzz box.

Quote from: GeePI was wondering how long it would take before somebody mentioned OFW...   IMO it's the best way to learn how to weld.  Anyway, if you're doing any work in steel you have to have a cutting torch.  There's just no way around it unless you get a plasma cutter = big$$$.  A torch comes in handy all the time.  Burning steel, heating stuck stuff, preheating cast iron, etc. etc. etc.

For most light steel OFW welding can't be beat.  It's a very proven process, and has been used in the aircraft business since the beginning.  Where a TIG shines in in Aluminum work.  For anything over 1/8" you'll want an electric welder.

I have reservations about MIG welding.  I've seen plenty of it in production applications and have never been really impressed with it.  It requires very close control to obtain good allowables on MIG welds.  I know plenty of engineers that will not specify MIG.  I wouldn't dare use it on an aircraft.  MIG is insanely easy to learn though.  It's just point and shoot.  And unlike stick welding, you can actually see the weld metal.

SMAW (stick welding) on the other hand is a very developed process.  It's been around forever, is used everyday all over the world, has much higher allowables, and you can find a used buzz box for under $100.  I bought mine off a welding school for $135, it had been used less than 10 hrs.  Don't worry if it's old.  All that's in there is a transformer and a switch.  If the thing welds, it's fine!  Worst case you'll have to hit the local welding supply and pick up some cable, a new clamp, and a stinger.  An old Lincoln 225 with some 6011's and 6013's will weld any thickness steel you can drag home.

If I were you, I'd go buy a torch rig and fish for a used buzz box.

Hello GeeP,

Well, I wish you lived around here because I would like to hang around with you.

I had an oxy-acetylene rig years ago, and I went and sold it.  I never did learn how to weld with it and it just sat around.  I'm happier with this rig, and with the internet available I now have access to lots of information and products.  I think this time I will learn how to do it.

I was thinking along the same lines as you are.  I already have the oxy-acetylene rig and I was thinking about a stick welder for the heavier stuff.  What is the deal with the AC units versus the AC/DC units?  Would I be able to make do with the cheaper AC only unit? I am not really going to be doing lots of welding but I can afford a new AC/DC unit if I thought they were worth the extra expense.  I would rather spend the money now on a rig that I will be happy with later on.

What do you think about the automatic welding shields for the stick welder?  Should I consider one of these?  What price range should I consider?

Well, thanks  for the input GeeP.  Take care.


Bob

I'm the most boring guy in the world to hang out with.  At least that's what everybody I know says...   :lol:  

An AC buzz box will do anything you want to do with steel.  I run 6013, 6011, and 7018 rod.  DC lets you use some higher tensile rods and some specialty rods, but you'll rarely if ever use it.  Mine isn't DC.  I didn't want to spend the extra money and have to worry about diodes to burn.

The auto shields are fancy, but I don't have one.  A cheap flip-lens works fine for me.  If I ever have $180 burning a hole in my pocket I might get one.

There are lots and lots of good welding books out there.  Another good source is the old guy down the road who used to work for Boeing, United Steel, Union Carbide, Norfolk Southern, etc.  I learned more in 4 days about SMAW welding from an ex coal mine welder than any class I could have taken.  Stock up on his/her favorite beer!  

I bought a solar powered auto darkening off ebay for $50.  I've heard people on other board say that they wouldn't risk their eyesight to save a few bucks buying cheap junk, but I look at it this way; my eyes aren't strained after using it...isn't that telltale?  I mean it has a variable setting that could make it too dark if I turn it all the way down so I feel that that's just a bunch of hype and people making themselves feel better for getting ripped off.  Either that or they are buying into the expensive welding helmet's manufacturer's pitch and propaganda.

Quote from: GeePI was wondering how long it would take before somebody mentioned OFW...   IMO it's the best way to learn how to weld.  Anyway, if you're doing any work in steel you have to have a cutting torch.  There's just no way around it unless you get a plasma cutter = big$$$.  A torch comes in handy all the time.  Burning steel, heating stuck stuff, preheating cast iron, etc. etc. etc.

For most light steel OFW welding can't be beat.  It's a very proven process, and has been used in the aircraft business since the beginning.  Where a TIG shines in in Aluminum work.  For anything over 1/8" you'll want an electric welder.

I have reservations about MIG welding.  I've seen plenty of it in production applications and have never been really impressed with it.  It requires very close control to obtain good allowables on MIG welds.  I know plenty of engineers that will not specify MIG.  I wouldn't dare use it on an aircraft.  MIG is insanely easy to learn though.  It's just point and shoot.  And unlike stick welding, you can actually see the weld metal.

SMAW (stick welding) on the other hand is a very developed process.  It's been around forever, is used everyday all over the world, has much higher allowables, and you can find a used buzz box for under $100.  I bought mine off a welding school for $135, it had been used less than 10 hrs.  Don't worry if it's old.  All that's in there is a transformer and a switch.  If the thing welds, it's fine!  Worst case you'll have to hit the local welding supply and pick up some cable, a new clamp, and a stinger.  An old Lincoln 225 with some 6011's and 6013's will weld any thickness steel you can drag home.

If I were you, I'd go buy a torch rig and fish for a used buzz box.

Quote from: GeepI'm the most boring guy in the world to hang out with. At least that's what everybody I know says...  

An AC buzz box will do anything you want to do with steel. I run 6013, 6011, and 7018 rod. DC lets you use some higher tensile rods and some specialty rods, but you'll rarely if ever use it. Mine isn't DC. I didn't want to spend the extra money and have to worry about diodes to burn.

The auto shields are fancy, but I don't have one. A cheap flip-lens works fine for me. If I ever have $180 burning a hole in my pocket I might get one.

There are lots and lots of good welding books out there. Another good source is the old guy down the road who used to work for Boeing, United Steel, Union Carbide, Norfolk Southern, etc. I learned more in 4 days about SMAW welding from an ex coal mine welder than any class I could have taken. Stock up on his/her favorite beer!

Hello Geep,

Well, thanks for all of the great information.  You have reinforced my planned course of action.  I already have the OAW outfit and I was  thinking about a simple AC transformer welder for the heavier work.

I am not in a hurry to get the stick welder though.  I just purchased the OAW outfit and I do not know how to weld,  so it will be some time before I think about actually getting the other welder.  Also, I need to upgrade my electrical service so I can run a 50 AMP circuit.

Take care of yourself GeeP and thanks again.


Bob