Damn, what's up with Muslims.  Is that ALL they can do to express themselves?  They bomb everything and everybody.  America, Iraq, Iran, Israel, Russia, Georgia, Spain, Indonesia, Phillipines, you name it, they've probably set off a bomb there.

Don't they have ANY regard for life?

What's WRONG with these people?

Why do they do it?

coz they think they're in a war  

you can't seriously think that you can understand them...you have to understand that we're from a totally different world. if you really want to understand why they do what they do, you have to become one.

so i'm declaring that anyone who makes any judgemental comments on this subject is ignorant.

and joerocker, it's not ALL muslims that loves to bomb everyone...

could we put this in the tard farm please

JetSwing, seriously think about it. The majority of these bombs are taking the lives of innocent people. Damn right they are going to get judged. I don't care who they are, what their beliefs are, they do NOT have the right to kill innocent human beings. What if one of those bombs killed your family? I bet you would have some judgements then...

going out on a limb here, didnt they say the same about the christians during the crusades?  or the Inquisition all in the name of God?   hell i might have my history all fubared, if so, tell me and ill let it be.

yes, bombs kill people, innocent or not. remember the oklahoma bombing? killed alot of innocent people. and when our military drop bombs, you don't think innocent people gets killed in the process?

and who's to says it's ok to bomb "bad" people? who's to decide who's bad and who's good? to them "we" are the enemy, aka the bad people. i'm not saying they're right...just to reply to your comments...weapons are designed to kill people. that's their purpose. war affects alot of innocent people. there's no way around that.

if i would have died from a bombing...i probably should not have been there or it was something i couldn't have avoided.

Blueknyt, you are right about the crusades and such, and JetSwing I agree with you that there can be no true judgement, having muslim friends, one being your best friend, really makes you understand the turnaround america has taken.  For my own experience, I was raised basically to hate america, at least their army anyways.  My moms village was burned down by american troops as she put it and my fathers oldest sister was killed in a bombing run (vietnam war) so they have a huge bias in bad people, good people in the world.  Me however, I don't have a huge bias towards any form of people and really do suggest a person experience firsthand a peoples culture or religion before commenting harshly or at all on it.

also to anyone who may think my parents were from the north(communist), both lived in rural villages and my father was a fisherman, he made the newspaper in san francisco for fleeing vietnam in a small boat and arriving there to flee the war :lol:

JetSwing - I didn't say who was good or is bad. I was just saying the extremists often target (and even the soldiers unintentionally) people not involved in the war.

The way I see it, when a soldier goes to war he ACCEPTS the fact he could die. When you are in a FIGHT, you EXPECT you could lose. But it wrong and cowardly to fly a plane into a building of civilians. It is wrong to put a car bomb under a random car in a crowded city street. It would be wrong to walk up to someone and punch them in the face.

Soldiers should attack soldiers, and fighters should attack fighters. If they have a problem with the country, they should attack the military bases if anything. Not the civilians. That is where the line should be drawn.

That's all I am saying.

Quote from: joerockerDamn, what's up with Muslims.

you forgot to ask "what's up" with the Irish Republican Army, anti-abortion groups and many, many other fanatical groups of people who use bombings to make a point.  The simplest explanation is that bombs are cheap, easy to develop and deploy, and that their effects are dramatic.  The question of why these terrorists are so willing (as opposed to other radical groups) to employ suicide bombings is more interesting.

Also, maybe "what's up with extremist Muslim terrorists" would be a more relevant question, and also one less likely to sound purely xenophobic (or intentionally incendiary).

Joe's original question,.....Joe I don't in all honesty think you can really cast an entire faith or racial group in the role of "bombers".  I know from my own personal experience that I came to harbour a deep hatred of the Irish because of bombings, I lived in a small community where eleven people were killed and a lot had injuries; I know of two who were still being treated 18 months later. When things affect you, your family, friends and community it is very easy to come to extreme positions.

I probably held those views for 25 years until it slowly dawned on me that most of the victims of Irish terrorism, from both sides, were themselves Irish and that there were alternative views of all types. There was, and is, a genuine will to stop the killing and solve the problems. This may have been brought about by people simply getting sick of the killing and the various interest groups realising that they were never going to get an outright win, the answer was the politics of the possible and compromise.

Once people stepped back from violence and took a deep breath a lot becomes possible and the hatred subsides, mine did, I now realise just how unreasonable I was - of course the Irish are not all murderous bombers. Most of them have the same aspirations, hopes and fears as you and I Joe. Just like a lot of those Moslems. I can see exactly where you are coming from because I've been there but this situation needs the good and honorable people on both sides to be allowed to work towards reconcilliation. I have lost my feeling of hate and I am liberated by the change.

That does not mean that criminals should be allowed to run loose and be hugged etc, of course any nation must protect itself using robust measures where and when it needs to. It has to be kept in perspective.  This is not war in the state-on-state sense, it may be war in the war-on-crime sense. The bombers are criminals, to elevate them to any other status glamorises them, hunt them down and deal with them with the full majesty of the law or shoot them down resisting like you would bank-robbers or burgulars.

We also have to ask why? and so do they, are there real grievances? etc and can they reasonably be addressed? To go back to the UK / Irish thing, every time the UK government took strong - some would say draconian - measures, that acted as recruiting officers for the terrorists and every time the terrorist commited an outrage they hardened the will of the goverments concerned, simply it got nobody anywhere. Do the moslem communities have a real grievance? Well, the Arabs have. We've been here before Joe, it's PALESTINE. How would you feel if the UN came along and gave your particular state to some other group??? It was a very well-meaning gesture but the road to Hell is paved with good intent, never was that proverb more true than this instance.

You cannot hate an entire faith or race, you don't have to love them, that is your business but you and your nation are better than that, when you realise that, so might they.

But what you and many others FAIL to understand is that almost ALL of the REAL Muslims (not the wanna-be, "fake" ones, living in the west) want us gone.  A REAL Muslim could NOT live in the land of the infidels unless planning to kill/convert them.  

I DO have personal experience with Islam and TRUE Muslims.  It/they  are NOT kind to outsiders.  

You are handed so much CRAP telling you how peaceful Islam is.  It's all BS.  When will you people get your head out of the sand and look around with your OWN eyes.  STOP believing everything you're being told.  

Islams mission is for all the world to be Muslim.  Period, end of story.  Yes, there ARE different sects of Islam, some not as radical, but they are the "Islam wimps" and not accepted by the majority.  

Before ANY of you can comment YOU need to go to an Islamic country.  You all make these arguments defending these people and you've never even been there.  You have NO CLUE what life is like there.  Yet you scream at me telling me I'm wrong.  BUT I HAVE been there.  I KNOW what it's like.  

Dogs in America have more rights than women in Islamic countries.  And that IS a fact.  But you're beloved news and the "liberal pussies" WON'T talk about that.  They'd rather Buddha Loves You about someone flushing a Quran down the toilet.  Ooooh, thats terrible compared to what the prisoner did, NOT!

Muslims are ALL in a war, a Jihad against YOU.

Man, I wish religion would just go away.  It causes/has caused so many problems in this world.  And what has it REALLY solved?  Given the hopeless some fairy tale to cling to.  A "hope" that the next world will be better than here?

Cal,

You added your reply while I was typing mine...

I see your point.  BUT the IRA was pretty much the same people (Christians) with different views.  And they did their mayhem to each other, not to EVERYONE and EVERYWHERE n the world.  This is a completely different animal.  The Islam faith is NOT compatible with the western world AT ALL.  It is like a slavery state and a non-slavery state.  Get it?  Two radically opposed views on what is right.  One side religion RULES EVERYTHING, the other has no religion.  How can these two differing thoughts get along?  I don't see it happening.  How are WE supposed to compromise with that?  Just take "some" rights away from women?

Also, why is it ALWAYS Palestine.  Why?  It was BRITAIN who OWNED that land!  It was Britain who along with the UN decided to "give it back" and we all made that "wacked out" border separating the Israelites and Palestinians.  Are we supposed to go back to the borders of the 10th century?  In fact, go to your history and you'll see that there really isn't a true "Palestinian" people who lived there forever.  The Palestinians were nomadic and lived more in Lebanon before they were kicked out.  The Palestinian "problem" is just an excuse, a "reason" to HATE the west.  A rallying point for Arabs.  In the scheme of things it's NOTHING.  A few hundred thousand people living in 1/10 of 1% of the middle east land area.  It's a JOKE.  It's an EXCUSE.  The REAL problem is not Israelis in "Palestine" it's ALL non-Muslims IN THE WORLD.  

READ THE QURAN!!!

Joe, I'll happily concede that some moslem clerics are very intimidating, just to look at them, let alone all that "unbeliever" and Infidel stuff the very language they use is very threatening. I just don't believe that typifies the entire moslem population of the planet. I am sure that loads of them are "nominal" moslems just like a lot of Christians who only show up at Church for Christenings, Weddings and Funerals. They just want a better house, faster car, etc,. etc,. pretty much like any other section of society.

Women's rights. Again Joe you are spot on for some countries, perhaps alarmingly it is worse in some of the arab countries that "The West" is currently supporting, I don't think the ordinary Joe (or Josephine) in Saudi or Kuwait have a lot by way of rights at all. Given the lack of democracy and Human rights you would expect us to be clamouring to depose the respective ruling families but "Needs must where the Devil drives"

On the other hand Pakistan may not be a perfect democracy but it has elected a woman Prime Minister (twice) some moslem societies do treat women very badly and some don't. Iran (who used to be baddies but now might be goodies--who knows) has realised that there is potentially a lot of talent to be had from it's female population and is making some advances where women are concerned.

I had to smile when I saw your wish that religion would go away, I can't remember if it was Marx or Lennin that described religion as the "Opium of the poor" and expresed a view very like yours. I bet you don't often find yourself in that particular camp. I'm a bit worried that I have found myself agreeing with you on a couple of occasions, perhaps it's a sign of hope for us all.
Regards,
Cal "Champaign Socialist" Price.

Timothy McVeigh bombed a whole shitload of people.  He's a terrorist...Except this time...you couldn't blame it on some country and go to war.

Yeah...how bout that.  How bout you stop worrying about what's going on in the middle east and worry about the nutcases in this country...at least that way it will be a whole lot harder to generalize...

I hope I never meet you...  :kiss:

Jonah

It was Marx who said religion is the opiat of the masses, Joe I agree with you very much on that point about religion, it has caused many wars and many more deaths.I am glad that I have found one other person who's said something like I have in my classes.  I find myself often thinking of all the good it has caused people but was it really worth it in the past and even now? just for a small glimmer of hope? I at least don't think so.

what's up with christians always lynching people?

Ok, there is always a reason that groups start raining death and destruction down upon other groups. And unless the hostile group is just a blood-thirsty bunch of crazed murderers there is something externally motivating those groups. If Palestine is a big issue with the reason for terrorism why hasn't some other group (opposed to the terror) proposed a physical piece of land from which the Palestinians can operate as a state? Joe, do you mean to tell me that you believe that a group of Muslims want to create havoc solely for the sake of religion? I mean, even though Christians did it for centuries just doesn't make it so that other religions will want to do the same. And as far as the Quran goes, I have tried to read it but it is very difficult to follow at times, but I have not found any explicit command in it which tells followers of Islam to go about slaying whomever is not a Muslim. If I am wrong will someone please point out the passages to me. This would be like someone telling me that Jesus Christ has said to go out and kill all the unbelievers just because.

Joe, I actually enjoy reading some of the diatribes you put on this forum, but only because it is an excercise for my brain, somewhat like chess. But, just like chess, it becomes a non-fun game when the person you are playing with continues to insist they be the winner even when check-mate has occurred by the other player. Part of the fun and passion of participating in forums is the give and take between the players involved. When it is supposed to be one-sided there is no longer any fun. And, like you, I have long since retired and don't like playing games that aren't fun. Lighten up, listen to others, acknowledge when a point is made, and I think you will even find some people start to support some of your positions on life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Joe, you said you didn't care what anyone thought about you and your thoughts, that you couldn't be insulted; yet when I deliberately said something about you being a "psycho" and dissed your bike, you went off on me! That which I did was merely another exercise in the game...you went off even though you said before that things like that didn't bother you. Yet you still haven't acknowledged that you were wrong, or that others on this board have made great moves in your chess-games. Are you saying that if we play with Joe he always wins even when he doesn't?

Love the Baby GS, Mississippi (chata hapia hoke), and this forum.

C........

i think i can sum it up.


Fear of change, and the lack of control to stop or steer it to your favor.


while fast in some respects and slow in others, it does come. depending on views good or bad or both.

paste all the reasons and why for's you want. its still change.

can you name the one thing that both Politics and religion - the biggest influences in how humans live their lives - have in common and feel they have no control over?

ok, thats all i got,  anyone got any jacks? no go fish!

In A.D. 2101
War was beginning.
Captain: What happen ?
Mechanic: Somebody set up us the bomb.
Operator: We get signal.
Captain: What !
Operator: Main screen turn on.
Captain: It's You !!
Cats: How are you gentlemen !!
Cats: All your base are belong to us.
Cats: You are on the way to destruction.
Captain: What you say !!
Cats: You have no chance to survive make your time.
Cats: HA HA HA HA ....
Captain: Take off every 'zig' !!
Captain: You know what you doing.
Captain: Move 'zig'.
Captain: For great justice.