me thinks  "sales gimmick"

I bought a used car from a GM employee once.  In fact the car I bought from him, he had used his discount to buy.

If memory serves, I believe he said they get a certain percentage off the invoice price. The REAL invoice price.  Something like 3 or 5% and they may get all the rebates too.  It was a while ago but as he said it, it was a VERY GOOD deal!  Like getting a $20,000 car for $15,000.

I read somewhere that a new car with a price of about $15,000 ACTUALLY costs just a few thousand to make.  The rest is PROFIT.  Why do you think there are so many dealers?  Why do you think they can have $6000 rebates?  It's BIG money (profit).  Why do you think it's such a crooked business and nobody tries to stop it?  Because it's BIG money and the profits are spread around.

Newspapers will NOT run a letter to the editor complaining about a local car dealer because all the advertizing dollars spent.  The state won't do anything either because all the TAX money they generate.  Car dealers can screw you and there's NOTHING you can do.  In fact MANY states have those arbitration laws that the dealers MAKE you sign just so you CAN'T take them to court.  And WHO are the arbitrators?  Ex-car people.  Like the fox guarding the chicken coop.

I want my own country...

Quote from: RVertigoI did pick the right one...  I'd like to see someone fit a Marshall 4x12, an Ampeg 4x12, an Ampeg 8x10, a 40 lbs Marshall amp, a 65 lbs Ampeg Amp, a 35 lbs Ampeg amp, five drums, six cymbals and stands, three mic stands, four guitar cases, and one bass case in a Century, Grand-Am, or a ZX2.

I can take all that in my 2 door civic, while hauling 2 motorcycles with a trailor, and a queen box spring and mattress on my roof rack.  It does require taking out the passenger seat and cuts the freeway mileage down to about 20mpg, though.  The convenience of doing it without the hassle of a trailer, etc, is not worth the bad gas mileage and parking issues I'd have to deal with the other 27 days per month.  I used to drive a chevy s10 before I got the civic and I've never looked back.  It was fun back when it was legal to carry ten of my friends in the truck bed, though.

I thought it was a sales promotion that saturn came up with first, and then other car companies have been copying it... unless saturn is also under the GM umbrella.

Quote from: conflicttheoristI thought it was a sales promotion that saturn came up with first, and then other car companies have been copying it... unless saturn is also under the GM umbrella.

Yup, they're GM

Quote from: conflicttheoristI can take all that in my 2 door civic, while hauling 2 motorcycles with a trailor, and a queen box spring and mattress on my roof rack.  It does require taking out the passenger seat and cuts the freeway mileage down to about 20mpg, though.

:lol:

I'd LOVE to see ALL that in a Civic...  Considering the 8x10 bass cab is 48" x 26" x 16" and weighs about 200 lbs...  I can't really picture getting the bas cab in the door by itself, much less TWO guitar cabs that measure 30" x 33" x 14"...  THEN a drum kit...

I just can't picture it.  

Did I mention that I can still carry a passenger?  

Jettas are good for carrying big loads too.


http://www.snopes.com/photos/lumber.asp

Quote from: CasiCUAAnybody get anything GM recently, or know anyone who did?

my business partner is picking up a heavy duty (superduty?) truck tomorrow. msrp is about $36k but with 'employee discount' and rebate he's paying $25k.

Quote from: RVertigo

I'd LOVE to see ALL that in a Civic...  Considering the 8x10 bass cab is 48" x 26" x 16" and weighs about 200 lbs...  I can't really picture getting the bas cab in the door by itself, much less TWO guitar cabs that measure 30" x 33" x 14"...  THEN a drum kit...

I just can't picture it.  

Did I mention that I can still carry a passenger?  

I'd fold the back seat down and either get it in trough the trunk or temporarily remove both front seats to just get it in.  I used to have a 2x15 bass cab that I could fit in.  At least one of the guitar cabswould be laid on top of that behind the front seats.  The heads from the drum set would have to be removed so you can inset them and those would either be in the back seat area or, if not there, then in the passenger seat (or that area if I decide to remove it.  The second guitar cab may be a problem, But probably not since I used to take all that with a PA system as well.  If I had a PA I might have to make a second trip for the queen mattress and box springs and put the cab on the roof rack.  The amplifier heads weigh a lot but aren't that big and would fit no prob.
Of course, if I wanted to bring the band with me I could rent the 4x8 uhaul trailor for ten bucks for 24hrs and just put everything in there.
Point is... I have hauled a motorcycle and a scooter in my civic.  I have hauled band equipment with my civic.  I have moved an entire two bedroom apartment in one trip with my civic from chicago to san diego.  I still can't justify the waste of a suv or truck the other 27 days a month.

Quoteme thinks "sales gimmick"

it is exactly that, as you prolly remember, they were offering several thousand off in dealer rebates and incentives, all they did was change the name on them to draw in more people

Quote from: conflicttheoristI have hauled a motorcycle and a scooter in my civic.  I have hauled band equipment with my civic.  I have moved an entire two bedroom apartment in one trip with my civic from chicago to san diego.  I still can't justify the waste of a suv or truck the other 27 days a month.

If I had any money, I would PAY to see you fit my band's equipment in your car...  I honestly can't picture it, but I imagine it has to be the funniest thing I've ever seen...  Not just on size alone... How wide is a Civic?  Is it even 4' on the inside?   (I was trying to find the interior cubic measurements of a Civic...  But, didn't have any luck.) Also on the light suspension of that little car...  THEN the weight placed on those poor little tires...  The bass cab is near 200 lbs on it's own...  Add another 150 for the three amps...  About 120+ lbs each for the two guitar cabs...  30ish lbs each for the four guitar cases and one bass...  and on and on...  It's an insane amount of weight for a Civic...  My Exploder is designed to haul way more weight than that, and even it has some issues accelerating and stopping...  The suspension is hardly affected by the weight, but it still causes issues with cornering and bumps...

Frankly, I don't see how you could get all that stuff in and still drive the car...  Add in the fact that you'd have to "remove the seats" to get it in...   :lol:  Then...  Doing that 4+ times a month?   :lol: I just can't picture it.  

And...  On the "other 27 days," I ride my GS.

Quote from: RVertigo
Frankly, I don't see how you could get all that stuff in and still drive the car...  Add in the fact that you'd have to "remove the seats" to get it in...   :lol:  Then...  Doing that 4+ times a month?   :lol: I just can't picture it.  

And...  On the "other 27 days," I ride my GS.

Removing the seats is just eight bolts- real quik with a ratchet.  My suspension was totally bottomed out when I moved, but not with the band equipment, nor with the bikes.  You fully underestimate the civic.
It aint no geo.
 You can't compare it to other sedans.  My 2 door civic fits more than my brother's four door saturn.  The 2 doors are larger, so you can fit more in, and "trunk port" with the seats folded down was wider so I could fit more surf boards.  It outruns every other economy sedan, including the Jetta and blows away v8 trucks (when not hauling).  Honda really understands HP to weight ratio.  It has also proven itself to outlast every other car in the market.  The japanese simply got it right with the civic.
Right on with the other 27 days.  

when I need a truck.... I take one home from work... F350 with 14000lb trailer... FREE... other than that.... my 2 little gm cars hold more than enough for me

Quote from: conflicttheoristYou fully underestimate the civic.

I still wanna call on it, 'cause just I can't picture it.  My SUV is taller inside, it's longer inside, wider inside, and has continuous flat space...  Basically a big-ass box...  And it's FULL FLOOR TO ROOF, FRONT TO BACK when I get all that in there... But, I'll just have to take your word for it and leave it at that.  

Quote from: conflicttheoristThe japanese simply got it right with the civic.
Right on with the other 27 days.  

  on both accounts.