Not me I have a 05 GS500F and I love it.  But my nephew just finished his MSF course and wants to get a GSXR600 well any sportbike thats a 600.  Whats bad is that an instructor at the MSF class told him that he could start out on a 600 as long it was an older one.  Now it seems thats all he's interested in.  What are some good arguments I could use to maybe change his mind?

I looked up the power of some 1993 600 a CBR I believe and it was still almost 100 horsepower. It was somewhere in the 90's I think. I don't know the weight though. So that's not that far off from how they are today. I'm a newb so take what I say with a grain of salt. It's just something I remember reading lately.

If they would just make smaller bikes that looked as good as a 600 and up, more people would start smaller and therefore more people would stay riding. That's just my guess though.

Insurance cost convinced me not to get a modern 600, maybe it'll work for him.
If you can't deter him from 600 "Sport Bikes"  maybe you can suggest a SV650 with full fairings as a compromise.

If they made small displacement bikes that looked as good as the bigger ones, the companies would lose 1000's of dollars. Unfortunately.

I would go with the insurance-cost route if you want to talk him into something smaller. He is obviously fairly young if he is your nephew right?  A 600 is going to have a pretty hefty insurance cost for sure. And he could skirt it with just getting liability, but then ask him what will happen when he drops it? He won't have anything to ride. And I bet anyone would rather ride a 500 than nothing at all. Atleast with a smaller bike he would be able to have comp/collision so if something does happen, he will have something to ride and won't be SOL.

Yeah just tell him he's on his own insurance wise, that will make him change his mind.

Tell him you really don't feel like watching him wreck in front of you, or cleaning up the mess, cutting short a nice day to ride, and having to drive him home on the back of your bike.

Quote from: blue05twinWhats bad is that an instructor at the MSF class told him that he could start out on a 600 as long it was an older one.

Where the &^%$ did they get that guy?

They said the same thing at the MSF I took.. Couple long time riders were teaching the class.

They miss a chance of teaching a rather good lesson, which is that the balance of a bike's weight, power, handling, and braking is what's important in selecting a bike, not displacement.

I know my MSF instructor said most 600cc sportbikes are too much for a new rider.  He said that if you want to go 600 or maybe a little more you should stay with a cruser or standard motorcycle.  Myself I just wanted to ride for a long time and figured I would start small and slowly work my way to a 600 or 750 maybe.  Not to mention insurance is aweful for anything that is considered a sportbike (sadly this is what the GS is considered to be but much less than any 600cc).

Quote from: Roadstergal

Quote from: blue05twinWhats bad is that an instructor at the MSF class told him that he could start out on a 600 as long it was an older one.

Where the &^%$ did they get that guy?

I took the MSF at a sort-of-rural tech school.  The instructors had to be open-minded, because much of the class was children and wives of riders, and they were going to do their own thing after class no matter what the instructors said.

When the instructors said that we needed a helmet, one of the ladies borrowed her friend's husband's spare helmet, because "she was only going to wear it for the class anyways"   .  The instructor didn't bother commenting; he was busy discussing footwear with a teenage girl:

instructor: "you have to wear leather shoes that come above the ankle"
girl: "can I wear fashion boots?"
instructor: "as long as they're leather and cover the ankle"

Sure enough, she showed-up for range day in leather platform boots, like she was going clubbing.

Quote from: zleiInsurance cost convinced me not to get a modern 600, maybe it'll work for him.
If you can't deter him from 600 "Sport Bikes"  maybe you can suggest a SV650 with full fairings as a compromise.

Why would and sv650 be better?
I have ridden a 1987 cbr600f and found it very easy to ride, the sv650 would be just as fast. I don't think the sports bike are dangerous it's the nut riding them thats the problem. If he is sensible he should be o.k. but if he is a nut then there may be a problem.

um....sv650 vs modern day 600 supersport = no difference??....dude.....put the crack pipe down.....HUGE DIFFERENCE....k??....

first lets just look at the engine.....SV is a v-twin....not an inline 4.....SV gets about 75 horses......SS 600 gets about 105 horses.....

....SV isn't a track tuned machine available in a streetbike model.....its a whole different monster entirely.....the SV is a great starter bike, it is a great middle of the road bike, it's a great bike for swapping out parts and then taking to the track.....

but there is no comparison between the SV and a SS 600......

additionally, the SV will save you TONS in insurance over something like a CBR600rr or GSX-r 600.....my rates are now $375 for the year (full coverage).....which is part of the reason I got the SV.....my ins comp classified my '00 Kat 750 as a SS bike, my ins went from about $700/yr to almost $4k yr......

....until you've actually been on a stock SV, please refrain from making ignorant comments about what kind of bike it is....

The top post said old sports bike not modern day sports bike. I have not ridden a sv650 but I have ridden an old sports bike and found it easy to ride so it was not really an ignorant comment.

A new person isn't going to use anywhere NEAR the capability of a 600 supersport.  If they are..they are GOING to wreck.  period.  It took me 2 years to outgrow the GS and that was after 12,000miles and a couple of track days.

A friend of mine wanted a ninja 1000 for his first bike.  We were finally able to talk him down by comparing the 0-60 of say...a GS500 to a corvette...which I don't have the numbers on the top of my head..

ukchickenlover has got it right.

Quote from: mastrindum....sv650 vs modern day 600 supersport = no difference??....dude.....put the crack pipe down.....HUGE DIFFERENCE....k??......

not so huge between an OLDER sportbike and an SV.

Quote from: mastrindfirst lets just look at the engine.....SV is a v-twin....not an inline 4.....SV gets about 75 horses......SS 600 gets about 105 horses......

87-89 cbr600 had 83 hp. not much more than an SV and the SV will feel faster to a newbie because of the vtwin.

Quote from: mastrind....SV isn't a track tuned machine available in a streetbike model.....its a whole different monster entirely.....the SV is a great starter bike, it is a great middle of the road bike, it's a great bike for swapping out parts and then taking to the track......

the SV isnt a great starter bike for everyone. it still has too much power IMO. However, I have been known to recommend the SV, as well as the older cbr's to certain riders, particularly those that have ridden dirt bikes lots.

Quote from: mastrindbut there is no comparison between the SV and a SS 600......

damn straight. but we're talking older cbr's. Although the 90+ cbrs were still pulling nearly 100hp it was in a heavier, slower package than todays 100hp cbrs. Still fast. too fast for most to start on.

Quote from: mastrindadditionally, the SV will save you TONS in insurance over something like a CBR600rr or GSX-r 600.....my rates are now $375 for the year (full coverage).....which is part of the reason I got the SV.....my ins comp classified my '00 Kat 750 as a SS bike, my ins went from about $700/yr to almost $4k yr......

my insurance from the gs500 to the cbr600RR went up $150/yr for full coverage...

Quote from: mastrind....until you've actually been on a stock SV, please refrain from making ignorant comments about what kind of bike it is....

please refrain from making an ass of yourself before reading the post thoroughly.

Oddly I dont consider that higher power as a serious risk ... its the fact that that power curve is rather steep and at a high rpm ... if it were gradual and smooth ... it will scare you straight right when you dont have it wound out for you to refrain from going and looking for it ... New 600 sport bikes make you wind it out looking for that power ... and when you find it its waaaaay too much ... an SV shows ya what it can do right in the lower rpms's ... sorta like a regular villain instead of the Norman Bates thing ...  :lol:  ... Like "come here I am so eclectic and cool" ... and then Bam ... "I am my mother and I stab ya 18 times ... "
Cool.
Srinath.

pablo.....still not buying it.....87 cbr has 85 hp.....stock does sub 11's qtr mile.....SV is about 12.5 secs (oh and 99-02 SV come 68 hp, 03+ SV come 72 hp stock) .....the power from the SV is right there with that low end grunt (thanx to the v-twin).....

but lets be realistic for a second here.....person is looking for something like a gsxr-600 for a first bike right.....do you really think said person is going to want an 18 year old bike for their first bike??....when I think of a "older 600cc SS bike" I'm thinkin mid nineties ninja or CBR......

...either way I still think it's *wrong* to comment about about how the SV is just as fast as the CBR when (1) this is just factually incorrect , & (2) the person hasn't ridden an SV, therefore is really incapable of making any sound judgement call about it's rideability or speed....

....now this person could have said, "hey, I had an 87 CBR600 for my first bike, and it was fine....", but chose not to....

....I may come off as arrogant, but Pablo, when someone basically misrepresents a CBR600rr (especially when they haven't ridden one) don't you get a little pissy??....or do I simply have too much pride in my bike??....

Quote from: mastrindbut lets be realistic for a second here.....person is looking for something like a gsxr-600 for a first bike right.....do you really think said person is going to want an 18 year old bike for their first bike??.........

no, you're right. most likely he's a lost cause. the fact he's in MSF tells me either he HAD to be there or just might be convinced of a smaller bike due to some sort of good judgement, but unlikely.

Quote from: mastrind...either way I still think it's *wrong* to comment about about how the SV is just as fast as the CBR when (1) this is just factually incorrect , & (2) the person hasn't ridden an SV, therefore is really incapable of making any sound judgement call about it's rideability or speed....

First, I never said it was AS fast. I said it was almost as fast. Reread my post to verify. Second, I HAVE ridden an sv650., first gen. AND, I've ridden an 87 cbr600 hurricane. Its a piece of crap really. Faster than an SV for sure (not by much really-only at the top end) but still 18 year old tech.

Quote from: mastrind....I may come off as arogant, but Pablo, when someone basically misrepresents a CBR600rr (especially when the haven't ridden one) don't you get a little pissy??....or do I simply have too much pride in my bike??....

You have too much pride. you made bad assumptions about me and you misinterpreted the original post reading into it that it was a new supersport when they mentioned an older model. So, yeah, I think your being arrogant.

Back to topic, the MSF instructor should have steered new riders toward smaller bikes but I can understand how they might try damage control, knowing full well a gs500 isnt going to fly with this guy. I've been there. Sometimes you can see it isnt going to make a dent and I try to at least get them not to buy a brand new, or several year old sportbike. MSF instructors are just like you and me, after all. They are prone to the same personality issues and bad judgement (if in this case we can consider recommending a sportbike at all as bad judgement).

Quote from: pantablo
You have too much pride. you made bad assumptions about me and you misinterpreted the original post reading into it that it was a new supersport when they mentioned an older model. So, yeah, I think your being arrogant.

....ok....I can accept that I have too much pride.....I love my bike.....so be it.....but:

1.  did I really misrepresent the original post??....
       seems to me the only bike mentioned was a GSX-R 600.....which didn't come into production until 1992, and had 106 ponies at inception....other sport bikes from that time ranged from 95 hp on....and of course these are sport designed track bikes sold as street legal racers (not that I'm saying anythings wrong with that).....

2.  what "bad assumptions" did I make about you??....really, I don't know.....

....