Quote from: mastrind1.  did I really misrepresent the original post??....
       seems to me the only bike mentioned was a GSX-R 600.....

the tenor of the original post was that an older 600cc sportbike, as recommended by the MSF instructor, was alright. The mention of a gsxr 600 was by the author of the post stating what his friend originally wanted. Most posts following were addressing the older 600 sportbike. So I still think you mininterpreted the first post.

Quote from: mastrind2.  what "bad assumptions" did I make about you??....really, I don't know.....
....

when you said " the person hasn't ridden an SV, therefore is really incapable of making any sound judgement call about it's rideability or speed...." you were assuming I didnt have any experience on an SV and the underlying assumption was I didnt have experience on an older sportbike.

And I dont get pissy when people misrepresent or otherwise give my honda grief. I present what I know and let the others decide for themselves...not everyone likes hondas. not everyone likes sv650's (really).

Meh.. as it were. Before it strayed off topic (be nice guys..).

My opinion on the matter is:

If said individual lives in a big city with lots of distractions, misc moving objects, suv/cellphone freaks, delivery people, bad/worn out roads, or major terrain changes, I would tell the kid to get real. There is no way in hell I would let him jump on that bike. He would be a splat in no time at all.

If he lived in the countryside with nominal distractions, slow moving cows, flat/low curve angle roads and highly predictable terrain and traffic changes.. well. That would change things slightly, but I would still push a smaller bike.

Show him some crash videos of before and after shaZam! like my dad did to me. That combined with ramming a 250 Honda rebel into an air conditioning unit cause the choke broke was enough to scare the bajeezuz so that I waited at least a 2 1/2 years to move up to a larger / heavier 550cc bike.

Just remember to tell him what my parents both told me after the air conditioner incident, they have been riding for 35+ years.

Mom: "There are two types of riders. Those that have gone down, and those that will go down eventually...."
Dad: "...so it the most important thing is how much experience you have before that day arrives, because it will really be what saves your ass from a gravel sandwich, not your leather."

mastrind, I really don't understand what your point is? yes a cbr600rr and an sv650 are not the same type of bike, but take into account that they build power totally differently. low down power can be very dangerous in the hands of a newbie, who wouldn't have proper throttle/clutch control. We all know that a cbr has more top end, but torque can really screw up a newbie. and before you call me ignorant, Yes I have ridden an sv650, I owned an 03, and on a light to light challenge, it surely wasn't losing much to any cbr600.

Pablo.....well.....you greatly took what I said out of context, especially because the remark was not directed towards you.....I've seen you on the socalsvriders site and I know that you've ridden the sv before.....perhaps you should reread what I've written......

so, for clarification here let me put to bed what my points are....

1.  I love my SV...so I tend to take things a bit more personally when it comes to what people are saying about my bike.....perhaps the poster didn't intend for his/her comments to be received the way I did, and perhaps I read too much into the comments.....such is life.....when you're passionate about something, that's what happens...

2.  if you haven't ridden said bike, then it is *wrong* to (1) comment on how the bike handles, power is delivered, etc.  (2) advise others on the worthiness of said bike (3) compare said bike to another that you have owned/ridden....

**I do think it's quite humorous that you chastise me for misinterpreting the initial post, but it's quite allright for you to misinterpret my post**

Blah blah blah blah....

Anyways, suppose the kid DOES get a newer, quick sports bike as his first bike. As long as he keeps both wheels on he ground, keeps it within the speed limit, wouldn't he be ok? I mean if you crash going 55mph on a GS500 it will hurt just the same as if you're on a Heyabusa going 55mph, right? ANY motorcycle can kill you or seriously hurt you, not to mention if you wreck and get run over by a car in the road. Stuff like that has no relevence to the bike your on.

I've never ridden a faster sportsbike, so I guess I am ignorant and I can accept that for now as I have a lot left to learn! But if the kid rides the GSX-R  supersport the same Granny way i rode my bike when I first got it, wouldn't he be just as safe? The supersport has a higher top speed but that is irrelevent under 65mph. And it gets up to speed faster, but only if you give it more throttle right? What if he granny rides it?

If he doesn't have the sense to granny ride a gixxer then he doesnt't havr the sense to granny ride a gs500?

:dunno:

it hurts your pride the same. your wallet, no.  that's totaly different.

I always though there were more problems with the sportier bikes for a newbie than just power.

There's the previously mentioned delivery of power, but there's alsy the different brakes and handling that can get a newbie in trouble.

I've been told that the sport brakes are harder and could get a newbie in trouble since they will grab better potentially leading to low/high side situations.

There's also the mental aspect.  Getting on a sportier bike seems to cause a higher desire to ride it like you stole it", at least it did for me.

Just my $.02

Maybe the kid wanted a liter bike and the instructor talked him down to a 600?  The problem with the sports replica bikes is the throttle response.  Flick the throttle and they TAKE OFF... FAST.  A liter bike will rip itself out of your hands.  A 600 will just streatch your arms a bit.  It IS easier to get into serious trouble with a SS bike.  They WILL bite you if you give them the chance.

What would "I" do?  I'd talk him into taking my GS and then I'd buy the 600!

Seriously, talk him into a GS or maybe a Ninja500 and have him ride that for a least a year.  THEN he can move up.  Unless of course he is super mature and will ride the 600 reasonably... yea right...

Quote from: PhaedrusBlah blah blah blah....

Anyways, suppose the kid DOES get a newer, quick sports bike as his first bike. As long as he keeps both wheels on he ground, keeps it within the speed limit, wouldn't he be ok? I mean if you crash going 55mph on a GS500 it will hurt just the same as if you're on a Heyabusa going 55mph, right? ANY motorcycle can kill you or seriously hurt you, not to mention if you wreck and get run over by a car in the road. Stuff like that has no relevence to the bike your on.

I've never ridden a faster sportsbike, so I guess I am ignorant and I can accept that for now as I have a lot left to learn! But if the kid rides the GSX-R  supersport the same Granny way i rode my bike when I first got it, wouldn't he be just as safe? The supersport has a higher top speed but that is irrelevent under 65mph. And it gets up to speed faster, but only if you give it more throttle right? What if he granny rides it?

If he doesn't have the sense to granny ride a gixxer then he doesnt't havr the sense to granny ride a gs500?

:dunno:

^^^^^^^^^^
um one thing...how long can a sane person granny ride? ya I started that way but after 25miles I opened the throttle up and scared the crap out of me....then it was another 30miles before I got the guts to pull on the throttle again...NOW I ride with the throttle wide open :lol: [it took 2yrs] When I get my katana on the road.....ya your going to see the slowes granny sporkbiker there ever was. If I get "stupid" and pull the throttle my a$$ is hitting the road and my beloved bike is going to get a beauty mark. I think a good headed shoulder person can handle the 600 sportbikes, but they need to understand one crash one kill concept

Quote from: PhaedrusAs long as he keeps both wheels on he ground, keeps it within the speed limit, wouldn't he be ok?

Well, yes, but a new rider, statistically, won't do either of those.

Quote from: mastrindPablo.....well.....you greatly took what I said out of context,


1.  I love my SV...so I tend to take things a bit more personally when it comes to what people are saying about my bike.....perhaps the poster didn't intend for his/her comments to be received the way I did, and perhaps I read too much into the comments.....such is life.....when you're passionate about something, that's what happens...

2.  if you haven't ridden said bike, then it is *wrong* to (1) comment on how the bike handles, power is delivered, etc.  (2) advise others on the worthiness of said bike (3) compare said bike to another that you have owned/ridden....

**I do think it's quite humorous that you chastise me for misinterpreting the initial post, but it's quite allright for you to misinterpret my post**

Well M, I would find it humorous with you except I dont see how I misinterpreted your post. Its very simple. This was said:

Quote from: ukchickenlover
Why would and sv650 be better?
I have ridden a 1987 cbr600f and found it very easy to ride, the sv650 would be just as fast.

and you go off on your tirade defending the SV. I think you took it very personally and arent taking into account that other people might have different opinions about the worthiness of an SV as a first bike. Its not my first recommendation as a first and many would agree. I'm sorry you are taking offense to that.  I can't see anything else it could be that has gotten you so worked up. People can have opinions (and sometimes even correct opinions) about things without directly experiencing it themselves, really. They may not speak with 100% authority on the subject but might not be talking in the dark either.

Do I think the Sv is a good first bike? Frankly NO. Do I think it makes a better first bike than a new 600 SS? Absolutely. You are entitlied to feel the SV is a good first bike, just dont jump down anyone's throat if the other poster disagrees.

Pablo.....basically we've gotten to the point where nothing's going to get resolved....I don't think you're really reading my posts.....or trying to hear what I have to say.....I gave the best attempt at an apology that I'm willing to give while saving face above....I'm not offering anything else....

....I've not questioned your judgement of the SV as a first bike because (1) you've ridden it and (2) I feel that you are qualified to make a decent judgement call....

QuotePeople can have opinions (and sometimes even correct opinions) about things without directly experiencing it themselves, really. They may not speak with 100% authority on the subject but might not be talking in the dark either.

...i agree, and there is validity to this, but ther is something to be said about expertise/experience someone has within a field that they formulating the opinion about.....

Quote from: mastrindPablo.....basically we've gotten to the point where nothing's going to get resolved.....

agreed. I'm done here, for fear I might have to put myself in the tard farm...

Quote from: Roadstergal

Quote from: PhaedrusAs long as he keeps both wheels on he ground, keeps it within the speed limit, wouldn't he be ok?

Well, yes, but a new rider, statistically, won't do either of those.

I agree...  I can't even manage those on the GS.  

Quote from: pantabloDo I think the Sv is a good first bike? Frankly NO. Do I think it makes a better first bike than a new 600 SS? Absolutely.

Yep and yep.

Before I post this, let me just say that I'm not in anyways suggesting that anyone start on anything bigger that a 500.

I've been ridding  small bikes for over a year now (ninja250, gs500)
I've been pushing it a little for the last 4000 miles or so.

I got the chance, this weekend to ride three different 600 super sport bikes.
I was a little bit intimidated at first. But here is where it gets weird:  the bike actually felt much easier to ride, throttle was amazingly crisp, and handling was effortless, and the perception of speed was far less at any given speed compared to the GS.

My conclusion is that every bike as a limit...with the gs, you reach that limit a lot faster so you are really learning how far you can take it before things get hairy, you get to understand the forces and physics exerted on the bike etc..
Somebody starting on an SS has no idea what the damn thing is capable off and wig out or find out the hard/costly way.

Ok so that being said, assuming that you have some experience in the bag, wouldn't a brand new SS be much safer than a mid 90's SS since, it is lighter, outhandles, outbrakes, out everything the older 600's?

or maybe I'm just smoking crack...

In regards to changing your nephew's mind about starting on a 600, GOOD luck...you won't because to him a 600 hundred is 1000times cooler than a GS.  Fortunately, people crash, steal, mistreat 600's a lot, and will be practically uninsurable for an 18 year old ...


Possible the longest post I have ever written in my life...I'm out

Quote from: VersOneand the perception of speed was far less at any given speed compared to the GS

That's one of the things that makes them dangerous.

QuoteRoadstergal
Posted:

That's one of the things that makes them dangerous.

Exactly. Any idiot can ride fast in a straight line, but you get that same idiot out onto a tight twisty stretch of road, and he will very quickly learn just how much he sucks at riding fast. even though a SS600 or even an sv650 don't have litre bike power, they still have the ability to do much more than most new riders and sometimes experienced riders can handle. Most new riders have to learn that the hard way. in the last week I have seen 2 brand new wrecked bikes. 1-r6 owned by an idiot newbie who ran wide on a turn(still with dealer plates) and 1 Aprilia tuono(he hit sand) (sure he did, likely story) also still with dealer plates. get it straight kids, you are not going to be the exception to the rule, you are going to learn the same way everyone else does. either with patience and maturity, or with blood and money.

Thank you for all the advice I'm going to show this post to my nephew later today.

Remind him that he does not have to keep the gs forever just learn to ride on it and then sell and then if he still wants a sports bike then get one.