I've had my '92 for almost a year now, and this sounds pretty much how my bikes runs as normal.

Sometimes, I need to keep the choke on 'til I'm on the road, then shut it off, and he's fine.

Sometimes I, too, have trouble finding the power, and then VROOOOOOOOOOOOOOM. The first time this happened, I just about went off the back of the bike when the power kicked in.  :lol: He has very little power in 1st or 2nd anyway, so we just keep shifting as fast as we can 'til we *find the power*...muahahaha!

Mine also gives a few backfires now and then. He *really* was backfiring when we put hotter plugs in, so it's back to the normal plugs.

When we changed the plugs, we also discovered that he was running rich on one side and lean on the other.

It looks like we're going to have a LOT of fun working on him this weekend!

pandy  :mrgreen:

Quote from: Rinowhat is happening is. . .

when starting the bike i need to keep the choke on.  if i turn off the choke the bike dies.  (I think i need to up the idle)(haven't had time to work on it lately)

When in first and second gear it seems i don't have any power.  i give it gas and nothing then a few seconds later it's like i have a turbo boost.  i then shift to 2nd. and the same thing once i get into 3rd and above no problem.  power and smooth riding.

Could this be the idle?  dirty carb?  

just put in new spark plugs at the end of the season last year and rebuilt the carb before the season.  

I could run more carb cleaner through?

when it backfires(mainly in 1st, a few times in 2nd) i think there's a fuel problem.  and when you need to leave the choke on to keep it running, definitly a fuel thing.

thanks

Quote from: scratchUse the throttle to keep the rpms up for now. Set the idle to 1300 after a good long ride, when the engine is nice a warm (hot). You may still need to use the throttle to keep the rpms up when it's still cold in the morning and warming up, but it's better than having the engine idle at 3000 rpm when warm.

i do keep the choke in and then when i am going turn it off. i went for an hour ride then stopped at a stop sign and dead.  had to start it, with the choke on, and go.  what i have to do is keep the engine reving in 1st when i stop then drop it and go.  it's a pain to do, and loud, but if i didn't it'd die.

Quote from: scratchAt what rpms are you at? There is no real power below 4000. Keep your rpms above 4000. How does it rev in neutral?

Right now it is idling at 500 and then dies.  not that there's no power above 4000.  if in 3rd gear and above i never feel that "chug" u know where u almost go over the handle bars then there's a sudden kick of power.  that is in 1st and 2nd.  i could be giving it full gas in first and be at 1000 rpms and nothing then 3 seconds boom i'm at 5000 rpms and have to shift into 2nd then it drops again to 1000 and sit and sit then boom.  


i just don't want to put the idle up and have a rich gas mix.  this could cause more probs.  it could just be an old bike but i'd think you could fix it. any thoughts?

Quote from: RinoRight now it is idling at 500 and then dies. if in 3rd gear and above i never feel that "chug" u know where u almost go over the handle bars then there's a sudden kick of power.  that is in 1st and 2nd.  i could be giving it full gas in first and be at 1000 rpms and nothing then 3 seconds boom i'm at 5000 rpms and have to shift into 2nd then it drops again to 1000 and sit and sit then boom.

Pull the carbs, take them apart, and really clean them. Jets are clogged and the bike isn't getting any fuel, that's why you need the choke. Furthermore, it's not carbureting well, because the jets are clogged. http://www.gstwin.com/carb_work.htm

could the jets have been clogged in a year?  is there any preventative maintenance that i can do?

run some carb cleaner/ achacol through her.   (see sig line)

Quote from: Rinocould the jets have been clogged in a year?  is there any preventative maintenance that i can do?

Yes. http://gstwins.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=34764#34764

i ran some carb cleaner through.  after which i let the engine run, then went on a ride.  maybe i need to make it richer.

pull the airbox off, if she's too lean she won't start at all without the restriction of the airbox.  then the next thing to do whould be to pull the float bowls off and inspect them for crap.

Quote from: Rinoi ran some carb cleaner through.  after which i let the engine run, then went on a ride.  maybe i need to make it richer.

What exactly does *that* mean ("i ran some carb cleaner through")? :dunno:

Carb cleaner only works if you LEAVE IT IN THE CARBS for a while. The LONGER you leave it SITTING, soaking the carbs clean FROM THE INSIDE, the better it works, so simply adding it to your gas and then running the tank empty doesn't do much good at all. From what you've written, I don't think you let the bike SIT for long; you simply added the carb cleaner, ran the engine, and rode the bike WITHOUT letting the carbs soak themselves clean(er) at all. Carb cleaner works SLOWLY; it takes TIME for it to have a noticeable effect.

Since you don't seem to be making much progress, try this:

First, DRAIN the carbs completely. Make SURE the float bowls are empty before you go any further. Then remove one float bowl at a time, and clean it out, to ensure that no crud was left behind. Reinstall the float bowls when you're finished.

Next, drain the gas tank. Don't take it off the bike UNTIL you've drained it. Just open the petcock (set it to PRIme), and drain the gas. Try to get ALL the crud out of the crap pockets, and when the tank is EMPTY of gasoline, remove the tank. Next, remove the petcock, and flush the tank with a garden hose. Then clean the fuel screen on the petcock; see THIS SCHEMATIC for details:

Make sure the petcock and fuel screen (number 9 on the schematic) are not damaged, and start the reassembly. MAKE SURE you get all of the lines installed properly, and be SURE that the PETCOCK valve (the little screw-head thing near the bottom of the petcock) is not obstructed, so that gas can flow through the petcock freely. Just use a flat-blade screwdriver to turn it back and forth (don't break it!), and be sure it is working properly. Be careful; make sure it is FULLY OPEN when you re-install it, or NO GAS will come out of the tank.

When you're POSITIVE your tank is clean, and that the petcock and fuel lines are working properly, put everything back together, and put the tank back on the bike. PAY ATTENTION to the routing of the various lines and hoses; don't rush, or you're bound to do something wrong, like pinch off a fuel line or a vent hose.

Next, put in a gallon of CLEAN, FRESH gasoline; there's no telling how much rust and sediment are floating in the stuff you drained, though if you let it sit in a clean container for a while, you should see some of the crud settle to the bottom.

Now, add some carb cleaner to the tank. I prefer PJ1 Octane Plus, which is the BEST product I've ever used for this purpose, though any carb / fuel injector cleaner should work. Here's a LINK, so you'll know exactly which product I'm referring to. You should be able to find it locally; just call around to your local shops and ask if they stock it. If you can't find it on a shelf somewhere, then buy a can of the cheapest carb / fuel injector cleaner you can find, and use that instead.

Here's the link to the graphic itself:

You'll notice that the white plastic cap on the PJ1 can doubles as a measuring cup. The directions tell you to add from one to three ounces of the stuff to a gallon of gas; I prefer to start with two ounces per gallon. If you add TOO much, the bike won't start until you dilute the PJ1 with more gasoline, or drain it out and replace the mixture with fresh gasoline.

That isn't a joke; too much of the stuff will actually affect the runability of your engine, so use it as directed, or don't be surprised when you kill the battery trying to start the motorcycle. If that happens, you won't know if the problem is from TOO MUCH Octane Plus, or from some other problem entirely, so don't say you weren't warned. If you can SMELL the PJ1 Octane Plus in the exhaust fumes, you've used too much, and you might want to dilute it a bit by adding some gas to the tank. Don't worry, it doesn't STINK, but it DOES add a distinctive odor to the exhaust fumes, which is easily detectable when you use too much; of course, as I previously mentioned, if you use a LOT of it, the bike won't even start. If you DO smell it in the exhaust, that will tell you to cut back on the amount you use in the NEXT gallon (or tankful) of gas.

Once you've got everything hooked up and ready to go, set the fuel switch to PRIme, and try to start the bike. Once the float bowls fill, the bike should start; once you've got it running, set the fuel switch to ON; do NOT leave it on the PRI setting!

After the bike runs for ONLY a minute or two, SHUT IT OFF, and go grab a beer; you're through for the night. The next day, start the bike again, let it run for a couple of minutes, shut it off, and let it sit overnight again. Doing this will allow the carb components to sit and soak in the PJ1 octane booster (or whatever product you used) long enough to get most of the crud out of the various orifi (orifices / holes) in the carbs and jets. You might be tempted to run the engine longer, but DON'T do that; you only want to run it long enough to burn the stuff in the float bowls, and refill them with fresh gas / octane boost mix from the gas tank.

Keep this in mind; your engine is air-cooled, so if the motorcycle isn't moving, you're going to over-heat the engine if you run it too long.

By the third day, you should notice that the bike works better at no-throttle (idle) and part-throttle settings. Keep enough gas and carb cleaner in the tank to do this for a week; you can ride the bike in the meantime, but don't forget to add more octane booster / carb cleaner to the tank each time you refuel. You should notice an improvement in rideability within just a few days, and the PJ1 will actually clean your spark plugs while you ride. Not only that, but it ALSO acts as a fuel stabilizer (same as Stabil), which keeps the aromatics in the gasoline from flashing off too quickly, and keeps the gas from turning to varnish (the nasty, foul-smelling green stuff) you find in carbs and tanks that have been sitting too long.

The old-timers among us realize that the "fuel" you get at the gas station isn't like the gasoline of thirty years ago; sometimes, I'm amazed that it burns at all. The octane booster WON'T turn pump gas into race gas, but it WILL improve things for you, and it should make diagnosing the problems you're having a LOT easier. You should also notice that the motorcycle starts easier (as long as you don't use TOO MUCH octane booster), and that lessens the strain on the engine, the starter, and the battery.

I fully admit that this is the LAZY way to clean carbs, but dammit, that is what carb cleaner is FOR! Soaking the jets (and everything else) clean from the INSIDE takes time, but I've ALWAYS gotten good results with this method, and if nothing else, it makes rebuilding the carbs a LOT easier, if you have to resort to that.

Give this a try; from what you've written so far, you don't seem to be making much progress using your methods. It might be an unusual technique, but back in the day when I got paid to spin wrenches, this is the method I used on Fridays for any bike that was due for a carb-cleaning on Monday. Letting the carb soak itself clean from the inside all weekend made life a lot easier on Monday morning, and it also makes trouble-shooting runability problems simpler as well.

Good luck; keep us posted.

sounds like a weekend project.  

You said first clean out the carbs then clean the gas tank.

Don't I need to pull the tank off to get to the carbs.

Also.  I did run the carb cleaner through and took it for a ride.  But I let it sit and soak so hopefully that will help break it up.

I will try this, since I don't know what condition the gas tank is in.

Quote from: Rinosounds like a weekend project.

Feel free to begin whenever you can, the sooner, the better, as long as your schedule allows time to deal with this.  

Quote from: RinoYou said first clean out the carbs then clean the gas tank.

Don't I need to pull the tank off to get to the carbs.

Actually, I said:

First, DRAIN the carbs completely. Make SURE the FLOAT BOWLS are empty before you go any further. Then remove one FLOAT BOWL at a time, and clean it out, to ensure that no crud was left behind. Reinstall the FLOAT BOWLS when you're finished.

Hope that clarifies things for you; you DON'T need to clean the CARBS, only the FLOAT BOWLS, and you don't need to remove the tank to clean the float bowls. The idea is that you will have to look at the float bowls BEFORE you start this long-soak process. Next time you remove the float bowls, I'm hoping you notice a visable difference; if nothing else, that should help convince you that cleaning the carbs the lazy way is having an effect.

I specifically recommended the PJ1 Octane Plus because I've tried other products, and the PJ1 worked better and faster than anything else. I didn't want you to DELAY doing this, which is why I also suggested you could use whatever carb cleaner you had handy. It will probably take longer to get the desired results, and they might not be as good as you'd get by using the PJ1, but I doubt the carbs need to be operating-room sterile; most likely, they just need to be cleaner than they already are.

Good luck with this; keep us posted, and be sure to let us know if you see an improvement, or if things get worse. If you hit a snag, let us know right away.

Kick that thing's ass, Rino

although it is alot easier to get the screws out if you take the carbs off the bike.

Good point; I'd completely forgotten that I've modified my float bowls (notched the corners) so that the float bowls can be removed within seconds. IOW, I've modified the float bowls by cutting away the outer corner of the screw holes, which means I only have to loosen the screws, NOT remove them fully, in order to yank the float bowls off. I've done that to so many bikes over the years, I'm always surprized to see float bowls that HAVEN'T been modified.

Sorry about that, Rino; davipu is right. It probably doesn't help that I'd been up working on a project for more than 24 hours when I began typing that (more than 37 hours now); with any luck, I'll be able to sleep for a few hours soon.

I have been running it everyday for a few minutes then shutting it off.

I turned up the idle and it has no problem running without the choke.  I think when the carbs were worked on it wasn't set back.

I had a friend listen to it and he asked if the carbs were synched.

I was thinking that if the idle was wrong then maybe the cylinders aren't firing in sequence.??

What do you think?

Can i do this or do i have to take it somewhere. Or should i keep starting it to clean out the carbs?

(i need to look at those spark plugs)

Quote from: RinoI have been running it everyday for a few minutes then shutting it off.

I turned up the idle and it has no problem running without the choke.

I had a friend listen to it and he asked if the carbs were synched.

That is good news; it tells us that your idle circuits are working, which means that the Lazy Man's method of soaking the carbs from the inside has worked once again, but there IS more work to be done, as your friend suggested.

I think your friend is right; your carbs probably need to be synchronized, which simply means that they need to be adjusted so that they both flow the same amount of gas and air at the same time. You don't want one carb to be rich, and the other one lean. They have to be balanced so that both cylinders do equal work, and you don't damage the engine from a lean condition. For now, let's forget about syncing the carbs, and move on; we'll get back to that subject soon.

Quote from: RinoI was thinking that if the idle was wrong then maybe the cylinders aren't firing in sequence.??

What do you think?

Since you only have two cylinders to work with, if they AREN'T firing in sequence, then you'll be running on ONE cylinder. Believe me, it isn't possible for the cylinders to be firing OUT of sequence, unless someone does some MAJOR surgery to your GS while you sleep.

Think about that; what IS the firing sequence? First one cylinder gets a spark, then the other one gets a spark, then it happens all over again. If you had a ONE-cylinder engine, there IS no sequence. If that one cylinder doesn't get a spark, the engine doesn't run.

Don't worry about being wrong about this stuff. The IMPORTANT thing is, it shows that you're THINKING about it, and the knowledge and details will follow. If you weren't thinking about this stuff, you'd NEVER understand it.

Quote from: RinoCan i do this or do i have to take it somewhere. Or should i keep starting it to clean out the carbs?

(i need to look at those spark plugs)

To learn more about your carbs, check this link:

http://www.gstwin.com/carb_work.htm

Reading that should answer a lot of your questions, and teach you even more than you've already learned so far.

There is no sense in trying to sync the carbs UNTIL they've been PROPERLY cleaned and rebuilt, so that article will help you to understand what you'll have to do to rebuild them. What WE did to your carbs was mostly just good enough for you to get the engine running at idle and part-throttle settings, so you could ride it normally and figure out what OTHER problems it might have. Of course, if your carbs were synced just before the bike was put away last year, they probably wouldn't need to be synced anytime soon.

Bottom line is, I wouldn't worry about syncing the carbs just yet. Your first priority should be to get the bike into good condition, and make it safe to ride. After that, you should consider rebuilding your carbs; just follow the tutorial link I posted in here and you shouldn't have any problems. If you do, you know we're here to help you.

Once your bike is safe and working properly, and you've rebuilt the carbs and KNOW they're in perfect condition, THEN you can move on to synchronizing the carbs. Keep in mind what I mentioned earlier; syncing the carbs BEFORE you rebuild them is a waste of time, so do this by the numbers, and you'll be MUCH happier with the end result.

Well, now the rest is up to you. You'll need to test-ride the bike and find out if there are any other problems to be dealt with. Do the normal maintenance as needed; oil change, brakes, chain adjustment, and so on. Get the bike into good working order, and then move on to the more complicated tasks.

Promise yourself this: Every time you touch the bike as a rider, you'll ride it to the best of your abilities, without exception. Every time you touch the bike as a wrencher, you'll wrench it to the best of your abilities, without exception. That means no stripped threads, no broken bolts, no smoked electronic delicacies, no carelessness or blatant stupidity (brain cramps are a part of life).

One more thing; I want you to keep learning. Follow my advice, and you'll build your skills in a natural progression; skip around from one thing to another, and you'll have gaps in your knowledge that leave you helpless when the shaZam! hits the fan, and as we all know, sooner or later, the shaZam! ALWAYS hits the fan.

Good luck with this; let us know if you have any more questions about this problem. If not, let's move on; take some rides and figure out what needs to be done next (chain adjustment, steering-head bearing replacement, brakes, clutch adjustment / replacement, wheel bearings, front and rear suspension; the list is almost endless).

Sorry this has nothing to do with Carbs, jets, re-jetting, or carb cleaner, although I may be trying some of this Carb adjustment stuff myself as my bike's idle is way too low, and if I turn in the screw to bring it up, the throttle gets stuck around 3500 RPM and won't come down. Therefore, I have to turn the screw way out which means that the idle is really low and sometimes dies when stopping at lights. (2004 F, with about 700 miles and just had the 600 mile service.)
Anyways, what I really wanted to say was ajgs500 sweet avaitar! I am a huge James Marshall Hendrix fan!!!!

WOW.

Did I see a difference.  

I have been starting it up every day or every other day.  I have noticed I have to keep turning the idle down.  must be breaking some stuff up.  now it runs great and I can get the RPMs up if i need to without killing it.  t still has some hesitation.  I am going to try to find some time to clean the carbs manually.  (spray or a brush??)

think it's okay to drive or should I clean out the carbs first?

Would it be good or bad to drive it?

Should I get the RPMs up or is that bad?

If you feel comfortable riding it, go for it. And, to answer your question in your previous post: spray; but make sure you remove and don't spray any rubber parts.

Quote from: aevans17Sorry this has nothing to do with Carbs, jets, re-jetting, or carb cleaner, although I may be trying some of this Carb adjustment stuff myself as my bike's idle is way too low, and if I turn in the screw to bring it up, the throttle gets stuck around 3500 RPM and won't come down. Therefore, I have to turn the screw way out which means that the idle is really low and sometimes dies when stopping at lights. (2004 F, with about 700 miles and just had the 600 mile service.)

Actually, your problem is with carburetion. Your carbs are completely stock.
http://gstwins.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19319&highlight=

http://gstwins.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12930