Quote from: newriderWas told by the dealer that a GS500 would not have enough power, and that I would get "bored" with it quickly. He suggested a SV650 or Kawasaki Z750S.  

Probably, the dealer has lots of experience having customers buy too conservative then looking to trade up a short time later at which point the customer is crushed or enraged when informed of the severe depreciation of his original purchase.  They know what they're doing, they're not all criminals, and sometimes they just want to have a satisfied customer.  

To be honest, I love my GS. I loved my last one, and I'm already in love with this one. The power isn't phenomenal, yes, but if you can increase your skills enough to ring the f%$k out of a GS, then you've become a better rider. If you can use every ounce of power the GS has SAFELY and consistently, then you might have enough skill to trade up. For those guys who start out on the big bikes, or the strung out peaky 100HP 4-cylinders, they don't have (and probably will not acquire) enough skill to squeeze every inch of potential out of their bikes.

I hope that isn't too confusing...

Summary: Being able to rag the hell out of a GS = skill

Side note: I've NEVER had a problem getting around cars, even at high freeway speeds (75-80mph). Albeit, I'm a flyweight, 5'10" and 140, but I've also got the extra weight of the plastics still on my bike. All the same, the GS is a wonderful starter bike.

Quote from: RoadstergalThe GS, with me on it, has the same power/weight ratio as a BMW E36 M3.  Take a look at the car the salesperson is driving, and express shock that he would drive something so dangerously underpowerd on the freeway.

I traded my GS on an SV, and then went back and got another GS for the street.  If you get bored with it, you're likely not using it to its potential.

Yeah, what Roadstergal said.  

Boredom is a condition of an uncreative mind.  If the GS500 is beginning to feel underpowered, kick down a gear and use more RPM's -- you would be under-riding the potential of a GS500.

There's also a lot to be said for developing good riding habits on a bike that allows more minor mistakes than an SV650 or Z750S.  Think about it and consider another dealer...

I tell people that all the time ... but only cos I'd think that it was better for them to get a cruiser ... like a Virago 535 or Shadow 500 etc ... lower ... for shorter people ... the GS is oddly tall You must agree ... I also suggested a Nitehawk 650 for a 6ft 3 dude that had decent lower body strength ... no problem on it for him ... The GS sucks as a starter bike ... atleast 10 better bikes ... KZ305, 440, 454 LTD, 500 vulcan, 500 and 535 virago, 500 and 600 shadows, 650 savage, 400 maxim, Cb and cm 400-450's, GS 450's, rebel 250/450, nitehawk 250 ... etc ... Sporty starter - OK GS ...
Cool.
Srinath.

Quote from: seshadri_srinathfor shorter people ... the GS is oddly tall You must agree ...

I'm 5'4" (my boots add about another inch to my height), and I can very easily flat foot it on my GS? Are later GS's taller?  :dunno:

pandy

Quote from: seshadri_srinath... atleast 10 better bikes ... KZ305, 440, 454 LTD, 500 vulcan, 500 and 535 virago, 500 and 600 shadows, 650 savage, 400 maxim, Cb and cm 400-450's, GS 450's, rebel 250/450, nitehawk 250 ... etc ... Sporty starter - OK GS ..

The thing about a lot of those bikes is that reliability, parts, and information on them isn't nearly as thorough or as easily accessible as it is on the GS. Also, my personal opinion is that cruisers aren't generally the best bikes to start on. While I admit the low seat height is an advantage, you can lower the GS fairly easily as well. The foot forward controls feel unnatural and awkward to me. A "standard" like the GS is much more comfortable, much easier to steer. Yet another thing is that since the pegs on a cruiser are so low, and the hard parts also so low, the lean angle is decreased significantly. As soon as you start dragging hard parts, things start getting tore up and the bike typically loses traction and slips. When I took the MSF Basic Rider course, by the end of the day the pegs were already dragging through turns, and I was coming very close to the bike's handling limits. I have yet to drag pegs on my GS (with the exception of when my last one crashed  :lol:  :lol: ). That being said, I think that the GS trumps many of the bikes you listed. Also, the GS has enough torque over a very wide range, yet is still supple and gentle enough to be safe. This means that if you don't have reaction time to downshift two or three times and go full tilt on the throttle just to get somewhere as fast as necessary, as you might have to with a smaller engine (for example, a Nighthawk 250) then you don't have to. You can just whack it open in the gear you are in and it will pull just fine.

And I haven't noticed MY GS being exceptionally tall (although I'm 5'10). Stats might be a bit false though, as I have a 30 inch inseam, and the GS's seat height is 31 inches, yet I can flatfoot with many inches to spare.

Some of those bikes are standards ... and dragging parts wasn't a problem on the cruisers I have owned ... savage, virago 5 and 11, vulcan 750, maxim 7, They can be leaned over a heck of a lot before dragging ... surprisingly ... a 535 virago will wipe the floor with the GS in tight twisties ... The GS has the disadvantage of being rev happy, the 535 makes power and torque down low ... in tight turns it will be able to carry better speeds and accelerate better, no need to rev to 7K ... oh yea the tires available for it are nowhere near as sticky as GS stuff ... Anyway ... learners aren't dragging pegs on anything real soon ... the diff between GS and many of those are so little in that area ... its hardly worth it ... Now flatfooting a GS is fine, we swap out rear shocks and then say its taller ... Big deal ... the lower, longer bikes are harder to wad ... they take more time to fall ... in a turn low or highsiding ... heck I have highsided ... almost ... a cruiser more than I have lowsided it ... the length makes it slower to change direction ... The CG and longer length help ... newbies aren't too comfy with 7K revving motors ...
Cool.
Srinath.

It was pretty darn easy to drag pegs on my Savage.

The '01+ GSs had annoying wide seats that sucked for short people, yep.  Shaving is necessary.  On the other hand, sitting up lets you see over traffic better than sitting down.  That's where I think the GS has the advantage over both crouched sportbikes and squatting cruisers for real-world riding.

I LOVE revving.  But that's a personal thing.

Quote from: AlphaFire X5Also, my personal opinion is that cruisers aren't generally the best bikes to start on. While I admit the low seat height is an advantage, you can lower the GS fairly easily as well. The foot forward controls feel unnatural and awkward to me. A "standard" like the GS is much more comfortable, much easier to steer. Yet another thing is that since the pegs on a cruiser are so low, and the hard parts also so low, the lean angle is decreased significantly. As soon as you start dragging hard parts, things start getting tore up and the bike typically loses traction and slips.

My wife started on the Vulcan 500 and still isn't comfortable leaning in the corners.  After riding it myself I can kinda see why.  The lean feels a lot less natural with your feet way out in front of you.  I find you also really have to countersteer to get the cruiser to turn.  First time out I scraped the kickstand in a corner and didn't even feel like I was aggressively turning.  I keep trying to get her to give my GS a shot, but she's not comfortable with the tip-toe thing... don't blame her.

I've put 7000km on my GS as a new rider.  Do I ever find myself wishing for a faster bike?  Sure I do.  But only when I'm already going $300 over the speed limit  :mrgreen: .  Cheap to run, cheap to insure, forgiving.  Love it  

I agree with the others.  I've had my GS (first bike) for two years and 6500 miles later I'm having a blast.  Then again, I enjoy the hell out of my 4 cylinder Mustang for the same reason.  It's not about the zero-to-sixty (which is quite good on the GS, not so good on the 'stang ), it's about enjoying the hell out of the twisties.

I've passed beefier sportbikes in the turns, just by being a better rider.  If only I could imagine the look on their faces when they hear those two cylinders buzzing by them.

What i haven't seen here is the $$ (non insurance) side of the story. At 210 lbs, you're PROBABLY (not definitley, mind you) going to want to upgrade the suspension on the SV and GS soon after buying. That can cost anywhere from $150 up depending on what parts you use.

Since you've ridden dirtbikes, and if you are confident in your experience with riding, have a license and all, you might be better off on an SV. If you're buying new, the SV all the way. If you want a great used starter bike, the GS rules. Buy it, mod it, love it, make mistakes on it, sell it in two years. I think the hit on selling a GS you buy new is greater than the hit you would take on an SV, considering you'd outgrow the GS sooner and look to deal it on a bigger bike.

At that size, he's going to want to change the suspension on the SV, too.  The nose dives under hard braking - not as much as the GS, but if I can notice it at 130, he's going to notice it!  Bikes are set up for yer average rider, so if you're shorter than average (ahem) or bigger than average (here), then you'll need to muck with it a little.

And a GS is very easily and cheaply DIY-muckable.

Quote from: GisserProbably, the dealer has lots of experience having customers buy too conservative then looking to trade up a short time later at which point the customer is crushed or enraged when informed of the severe depreciation of his original purchase.  They know what they're doing, they're not all criminals, and sometimes they just want to have a satisfied customer.  

sounds like a good argument for buying used.

you do have a point though.  the dealer's attitude could be based on previous experience with customers who got bored with the bike quickly.  these people were likely not very good riders who couldn't use the potential of the smaller bike and sought to compensate with horsepower.

okay... i had a gs... put some miles on her... I was faster than the people i ride with...  k1200rs, k1200r, s2r, zzr1200... MUCH faster... all because i started on a bike that FIT me.  I'm at about 200lb...  the GS was quicker than just about ANYTHING on 4 wheels.  

What made me buy a new bike was that my riding skills were outgrowing the bike.  Had I started on an sv650 I'm convinced I would not be as good of a rider as I am now..

IMHO your first bike should be something you are planning on selling in a year or two.  Buy something USED..  and something that runs decently.  That way if you do decide to sell then you can almost always get your money back.

1/4 of the reason I bought a GS above what srinath recommended was for looks.  I wanted something sporty-er.  The fairings on the 04 can be removed while you're learning so if it's dropped not a huge deal.......

Quote from: seshadri_srinathSome of those bikes are standards ... and dragging parts wasn't a problem on the cruisers I have owned ... savage, virago 5 and 11, vulcan 750, maxim 7, They can be leaned over a heck of a lot before dragging ... surprisingly ... a 535 virago will wipe the floor with the GS in tight twisties ... The GS has the disadvantage of being rev happy, the 535 makes power and torque down low ... in tight turns it will be able to carry better speeds and accelerate better...

I agree with Srinath here, as I started on a cruiser, a 650 Maxim, which could be leaned waaay over (47 degrees) and still not scrape anything! The power made down lower makes it much easier for a newb to stay in one gear and concentrate on cornering. Having that power on tap down low (or torque) makes for a smoother transfer of power through the drivetrain to maintain traction. And, a lower-stressed motor that doesn't have to be revved to nervewracking, angry-bee-hive-sounding rpms allows the rider to also be less stressed and less likely to become flustered. His senses aren't overloaded with sight, sound, and sensation, or feeling.

Also, the seating position reduces the amount of handlebar pressure that a sportbike would induce. A sportbike, with its lean-to position, puts pressure on both sides of the bars. The rider, without anybody otherwise telling them, has to experience for themselves what it's like to fight themselves trying to turn the bars when their weight is being applied on both sides of the bars; one side is trying to turn and the other is trying to hold up the upper body.