....whats the road behind me like?

First off, I have NOT YET taken MSF.  I'm sure this topic will be covered when I do take it (tentatively this labor day weekend if i can sneak into a no-show's spot).

While riding on the highway at 70+ (according to my speedometer which i'm pretty sure is showing speeds ~15-20% higher than my actual speed), there is enough wind/crosswind that it makes sitting up in normal riding position uncomfortable.    The problem with tucking in and putting my chest on the tank is that I can't see jack out my mirrors from this position if they'd previously been adjusted for my normal position.  Since turning your head to check your blind spot is much hairier on a motorcycle at 60+mph than in a car, I decided to set the mirrors  for freeway travel.


How do you other riders handle this?  Insofar, I haven't found a single mirror position that gives me satisfactory views at normal and tucked riding positions.  Right now I have one mirror set for freeway, and the other halfway between normal position and tucked (My reasoning being that i can duck my head at side-street speeds to check the mirror much more easily than lifting my body to check the mirrors and catching the wind whilst on the highway.

As a side note:   What do cruiser riders do about the wind when riding at the same speeds?  Granted, those bikes are typically heavier, but you can't really put your chest on the tank on those bikes and safely ride.
Or can you?

i normally pop up enough to see my mirror and then just look behind me and then i'm off.

No, you can't just lay on the tank because you'll be staring at your guages on a cruiser. Usually they do pull-ups, that's how they get so big and buff.

Otherwise, I do what my00forest does.

I don't have the MSF yet either, but I'm just letting you know that you're about to get it. People can get fiesty towards those without the course training. You get a lot of these:  

Good luck. I really have no solution for the mirrors. I have started to just lean in slightly rather than gut-to-tank. And I just pop up now and then to see behind me. That's about all I can tell you.  :dunno:

Dave  

I have my right mirror set for the lane behind me and the one to my right.  at freeway speeds.  which for me I'm usually sitting straight up with my feet on the hwy pegs, and my left mirror set for leaning foward and seeing behind me and the lane to my left.

For the record:    

Out of curiosity, have you tried doing the opposite to deal with wind, i.e. sit up straighter rather than lean forward?

Personally, I don't think wind blast is as much of a problem as people make it out to be. But when you get up to 70, 80, 90 mph it is definitely noticeable. I find that squaring my chest and sitting up straighter takes my head above the main wind blast coming over the gauges. So the wind go over my shoulders and is actually quieter in my helmet.

I tried leaning down on the tank, but with my arms bent like that and the reduced visibility it seemed like a dangerous way to ride. Rather than allow the wind to force you into a strange body position with impaired visibility and handling, why not just slow down to a speed where you can ride safely and comfortably?  

Thinking on it more, I suppose crosswinds are different. I have felt the need to lay on the tank, e.g. when crossing long, high bridges. Still, there you're talking about doing it for 30 seconds and then returning to a normal position... not such a big deal.

They make these clear things that fasten on the bars...I think they call them "wind shields" or something, and they come in all sizes and shapes. It takes the pressure off your head and chest and deflects bugs, gravel, rain, etc. I like mine, it's a National Cycle Street Shield. It's blacked out a little bit around the bottom so it looks sort of cool on a 2001 otherwise stock, 75mpg machine. I think the shield might also up the gas mileage, but of course we Americans don't really care about that.

Actually, now that I think of it, I do have my mirrors outward so much that if I do lean forward I can get a pretty decent view straight behind.

I do what milo does currently during the summer, when I prefer to ride 'naked', without a shield. And for the rain, I prefer no shield, but when it's cold, that's when I need a shield.

I'd recommend parking it until MSF; you might be practicing to stop with the wrong foot down, wrist too far down, fingers covering brake lever, etc., which could make it harder for you in class.

Quote from: Rema1000I'd recommend parking it until MSF; you might be practicing to stop with the wrong foot down, wrist too far down, fingers covering brake lever, etc., which could make it harder for you in class.

Pretty sure he should be covering the brake lever, no?  :dunno:

D  

Quote from: MountaineerThey make these clear things that fasten on the bars...I think they call them "wind shields" or something, and they come in all sizes and shapes. It takes the pressure off your head and chest and deflects bugs, gravel, rain, etc. I like mine, it's a National Cycle Street Shield. It's blacked out a little bit around the bottom so it looks sort of cool on a 2001 otherwise stock, 75mpg machine. I think the shield might also up the gas mileage, but of course we Americans don't really care about that.

Hmm.  I'm new, so you (clearly) haven't seen a pic of my bike.  It has a windscreen *and* fairings on it... so I should arguably be experiencing less wind drag than my naked colleagues. Here's a photo for you.

Quote from: miloFor the record:    

Out of curiosity, have you tried doing the opposite to deal with wind, i.e. sit up straighter rather than lean forward?

Actually, yes.  I probably spend about half the time on the highway sitting up on the bike.  But the increased (albeit slightly) force from gusts when I approach the median speed (meaning slower than the fast cars and faster than the slow cars) can make me uncomfortable... or I might feel like I have better control over the lateral movement of the bike if I don't have to exert force to 'pull' myself closer to the handlebars.

I have taken only 2 trips on the highway (4, if you consider to and from seperate trips) thus far.  Maybe its my being green, but although its not (typically) quite as intimidating as I imagined it would be... I find that I have to be a fair bit more cognizant of car positions, velocity, road conditions.  To me the tricky part is finding the correct mix of concentration on where you're currently going vs predicting where you should position yourself in the next 30-60 seconds vs being clairvoyant as to the habits, behavior (and in some cases deficiencies) of the vehichles around you.  In that circumstance, being knocked around (albeit minutely) was an extraneous concern... so i tucked in in order to not be distracted by it.   I usually gradually prarie dog as I approach cars in the adjacent lane that I may or may not end up passing in order to get a good look at my immediate environment  (though being more visible is a good thing too).

As for MSF.  I still plan to take it.  There's a waiting list here at the moment.  I'm looking very forward to learning some proven good habits to stay safe.  I think having ridden my bike somewhat (*with a responsible experienced rider there to give pointers*) is advantageous because I won't have to focus on basic motorcyle operation (like how to start off and shift).  I'm most looking forward to (safely, relatively anyways) pushing one of their bikes to the brink of lowside so that I can get a feel for approximately how much is too much, which I can add to my mental file of 'things that feel wrong' should a similar situation be iminent while i'm out riding.

In the meantime, I have been making calculated trips to expose myself to different types of traffic.  The closest encounter I have had with a car was a lady cutting in front of me at the merge for a construction zone at about 4 miles per hour (bumper to bumper traffic).  I got the feeling that she saw me and would have done the same thing anyway even if I'd been in a car.  My closest call so far was a ~10-15mph left turn into my subdivison.  The road leans slightly and there is a bit of sand/rocks so I did not want to lean my bike over too far.  I didn't turn my head quite enough into the turn.  Luckily, I realized this early enough and only ended up pulling onto the street about 2 feet closer to the curb than I had planned  (I was only about 1 ft from the curb).  I've adjusted my turning radius estimations accordingly and am much improved in this area.

Quote from: milo
I tried leaning down on the tank, but with my arms bent like that and the reduced visibility it seemed like a dangerous way to ride. Rather than allow the wind to force you into a strange body position with impaired visibility and handling, why not just slow down to a speed where you can ride safely and comfortably?  

Thinking on it more, I suppose crosswinds are different. I have felt the need to lay on the tank, e.g. when crossing long, high bridges. Still, there you're talking about doing it for 30 seconds and then returning to a normal position... not such a big deal.

There is a lot to be said for being visible.  The only other main disadvantage I see with with the tucked riding position is the lessened ability to quickly change your center of gravity to swerve quickly... this is probably best mitigated by not putting your bike in as-risky positions and lessening the chances of having to swerve.

Crosswinds are definitely different.  It got cloudy when I was out, so I rode the bike home early to avoid any possible rain.  The cloud cover was thicker as I approached home and there were more gusts.  Traffic was fairly light, and I experimented with tucking even at lower speeds to reduce the exposed surface area.  My conclusion was that riding through gusts to escape the rain isn't very fun.  Its probalby the only time I have felt that having larger vehichles in proximity made riding easier.

Second the windshield it makes a HUGE difference.  As I found out when I thought mine wasn't and I took it off.  On the Interstate it is at least 5 times better with the windshield than without.

at 70 - 85mph, I take the wind beating like a man. no more hiding behind mommy's dress.

No, you don't cover the brake. Reason: when you panic, you'll yank it and highside, loop over the front, or otherwise cause bad things.

Much better to cover the clutch, and reach for the brakes if/when you need them.

What I do: first, wear ear plugs. Riding the highways is about 1000x more pleasant with them on. Then, just look. A mirror is never going to show you your blind spot, because it is, by definition, where your mirrors can't show you.

2 observations:

1) Given your inexperience, this might just be a comfort issue. The more you ride, the more your body will will get used to the activity (less wrist fatigue, more able to withstand bar vibrations, stronger back muscles, more fine-tuned throttle and clutch control, etc) and the more your mind will be comfortable with phenomena associated with riding, e.g. high winds. So, you might find that you are less bothered by this over time.

2) Ah! You have a faired model! More support for my theory that the F's windscreen actually makes wind blast worse, rather than better. If wind was deflected a foot higher than it is, I wouldn't be able to sit up with my head above it. In this case I'd be more tempted to duck down under it (and, ducking down would itself be more effective).

(Obviously that's a controversial theory.)

A windsheild helps dramatically but the wind is just something you have to get use to.  Sometimes it sucks more than others.  A second to the earplugs.  If the wind is really bothering you find an alternate route on a state road or national highway for a little bit.  The speeds tend to be slower and there usually are more windblocks, building, and etc to help you out.

As far as cruisers, if you don't have a screen, yeah you just sort of hang on. Yes, there are some cruiser you can lay down on, I've done it, but it can get spooky and if you get into trouble, that's it.

And what exactly is th MSF? is that a motorcycle safety course? I am just asking cause we don't have that here. You have to take a basic test to get the motorcycle endorsement, just like a driving test, but you are not required to take a safety course. In Oklahoma, you can get a motorcycle license at 14, just read the book, take the written and the riding test and your good. I did it 15 years ago, been riding ever since. Course, now that I have kids, I think its maybe a little reckless letting 14 year olds ride a motorcycle (125cc or smaller) before they can drive a cage. remember how stupid you were at 14?

at 14 I thought I was invincible. What the Heck....I still do!! Thats why I bought a motorcycle

MSF, i.e. MSF BRC = Motorcycle Safety Foundation Basic Rider Course. They have 'em all over the country. Many people (myself included) think it came from On High and nobody should be on a bike without having first taken the BRC. Others, often older riders who started riding before the course existed, think people like me are wusses. Somehow, my ego survives.

The     is because one of the tenets of MSF instruction is that you shouldn't so much as touch a bike before you take the course. Tarzanboy's attempts to expose himself to various riding conditions before taking the course may seem admirable, but many instructors would be very critical of it - the idea being he's going to pick up bad habits which he'll then have to unlearn in the course, making his instruction that much more difficult.

Ok I think this is   .  If Tarzanboy has someone who has tons of exp. and has taken the course to guide him and help him through these experiences I don't see a problem.  I didn't take the MSF until this May and I got my bike last August.  In my class, I got the second highest score( I went too slow through one part) and they didn't harp on me for bad habits.  And I had never ridden a bike before, ever.  However, I do think that taking the MSF is a great thing and some of the stuff I learn in it has proven to be invaluable.  The highway takes a lot of getting used to and the only way to do it is ride, ride, ride.