ok, seeing how this is quickly becoming a very gloomy doomy thread, I figure i'll throw a few positives into the mix...

1. first of all, recent events have seemed to really throw the topics of energy consumption and environmental concerns into the spotlight. Now that people are more able to understand how easily things can be unsettled, maybe we can "really" begin to take on the challenges that face us in a realistic manner.

2. This is actually good for us. Many changes have been taking place over the last few years that will greatly make an impact on our overall way of life.
Many cities have looked to urban redevelopment projects in order to stimulate local economies, stimulate business growth within existing urban areas, and gain local income from increased property taxes. This in turn brings business and services closer to residential areas which allows people to be less dependent on motorized transportation. This in turns brings people out into their local communites, which can greatly improve the fabric of local areas not to mention the health and well being of the residents.
Urban redevelopment is currently gaining steam in part not only due to many younger single and married professionals having a need to be closer to events and entertainment, but also due to many baby boomers who themselves have a need for less space and less responsibilities. As the baby boomers age, they are less willing to want to care for and maintain large suburban homes, so we are in turn seeing many returning to the city in order to take advantage of the new development of condos and townhomes. Another thing to consider is that as the baby boomer generation ages, their ability to transport themselves by car will greatly diminish, so it is important for them to be closer to the services that they will require, sush as healthcare and emergency services. This new interest in building communities that contain housing, business and entertainment will go a long way in bringing down our usage of fossil fuels.

3. We still have a long way to go before we have a critical situation on our hands. There is plenty of time for us to evaluate our priorties and learn to be a bit more flexible. We as a country have always been at our best in times of hardship, and this is no different. If we begin to take these challenges more seriously, we can surely come up with creative ways to deal with problems in a way that doesn't hinder our way of life, but broadens it.

Ok, i'm done. Just remeber this - our government will not ever give us anything we don't demand, it's up to us to stay on their @$$e$, no matter what party they claim, that is OUR job.

peace all

Quotethere was this interesting trend..when bush got into office...the price of gas went up like no other.

Seemed like a good correlation to me.

The various reasons given for the war in iraq (at least the quieter agendas) was to get cheaper gas...what happened??

We have dead people now and it seems like everything is going crazy.

HAHA banner, I would like to say that I find it utterly hilarious that you have put a correlation between gas prices, the president, and a huricane. Oh yes, of course... gas goes up, and it causes a hurricane to kill people... It's ingenius! How did I not put 2 and 2 together!

Just pay whatever you have to at the pumps. Thats all we (as pawns) can do.

 -Anti  

QuoteThe Antibody
HAHA banner, I would like to say that I find it utterly hilarious that you have put a correlation between gas prices, the president, and a huricane. Oh yes, of course... gas goes up, and it causes a hurricane to kill people... It's ingenius! How did I not put 2 and 2 together!

hum? well since YOU seem to have a problem adding 2 and 2 together let me give you a hand. First, let's discuss Katrina. bush certainly didn't cause this hurricane, but he is directly responsible for the absolute blunder that has followed.
1. 2001, Bush names his choice for director of FEMA. Joe M. Allbaugh. A buddy from texas with relativley no experience in the field of disaster management. Then FEMA director Allbaugh  takes FEMA in a direction away from  disaster prepardness in order to save what is now becoming a dwindling budget.
2.The new DOHS absorbs FEMA and now takes 3/4 of all FEMA grants for use in counter terrorism.
3. 2003, Deputy Director Micheal Brown becomes Under Secretary of FEMA(Director), another previous acquaintance of Bush. Brown, a previous lawyer and professor has no previous experience in disaster management prior to his time in the Bush admin.
4. Brown, during a television interview thursday night, claimed that FEMA had no knowledge of the thoudands of people stranded inside the convention center of new orleans before that day, and that's why they had not received any aid. This was not taken well by journalists who explained to him that they had been reporting on those stranded there for days.

The lack of FEMA to coordinate or respond to the Katrina disaster falls squarely at the feet of the current admin. The president is directly responsible for the poor management and operation of the agency designed to manage disasters.

Now lets get to the oil.
This one is easy.
1. The Bush administration has failed to encourage conservation, regardless of current wartime conditions.
2. Administration fails to plan accordingly for the war in Iraq which greatly effects a major source of petrol.
3. Due to investor worries over the war and possible terror attacks to Saudi oil facilities and pipelines, Barrel prices soar to an all time high.
4. Due to reckless foreign policy, countries such as Venezuela are less willing to accomodate our needs, driving prices even further.

All of the above have greatly influenced the price of oil. Again, directly due to the actions of the current administration.

Wow, I guess Banner wasn't to far off in his post.
Anti, Pick up a newspaper once and a while, then maybe when you pick on someone else you can back up your opinions with a few facts.

Actually, you are wrong about it being Bush's fault. Fema is an assistance group, providing the man power and logistics to aid in disaster relief. The leadership of the state and local governments are rquired BY LAW to have plans set in place for such disasters. FEMA, while a little slow, is actually doing their job. this became a mess before the storm even hit because the IDIOT LA govenor mishandled the evacutation and didn't even bother to help the poorest people, who are the ones whoe got trapped. There were no buses, car or trucks sent to get the people out of the projects. How is that Bush's fault? It isn't. And to those who are thinking this is a race issue- most of the leadership in louisina is african-american. Nagin, the NO mayor is black. There were 2 disasters here the hurricane and then the levees broke, 2 seperate but related disasters, which helped to create massive disaster that has likely killed New Orleans from ever being what was again. Which for most people in the prject sat least is probably a blessing as they will now get a chance to start over and they will federal money to help rebuild thier lives even thoguh the were in the projects and didn't own land, they might now have a chance at a fresh start. The director of FEMA didn't know until thursday about the people at the convention center. Yeah, that is crap, it was however the state's fault for telling those people to go there in the first place because they were disorganized and had no real leadership. It wasn't until things got so bad that FEMA and the National guard had to take over. As far as the national guard, only the governor can call them in and then the governor has to lay out the plan. That was never done and now we have a huge mess. if your looking for someone to blame, it lies with the state of louisiana first and foremost. I'm lucky, I live in a state where we have dealt with stuff like this every year, not on this scale, but we have the best prepared rescue teams in the nation and other states call us to help whenever there is a disaster and our teams train other state teams on how to be efficient and thorough and quick all at the same time. I live in Oklahoma.

QuoteActually, you are wrong about it being Bush's fault.

Quote

Sorry, but I am going to have to disagree with you. The entire reason FEMA was created was to plan, prepare and assist BEFORE, during and after a disaster. In the past, FEMA has been responsible for such projects as using federal money to relocate families living in flood prone areas in order to prevent further need for assistance in the event of a disaster. That kind of  pre planning has proved to be very succesfull. The current FEMA leadership has failed to properly plan for such disaters which is why it took so long for help to respond. LA  and NO officials were asking for national guard troops to be sent from day one, and they were promised them, but it took until friday until we started to see a substantial number arrive. Again, a federal issue. I am certainly not going to say that LA and NO officials shouldn't share in the blame, but LA is the poorest state in the nation, they are working with a miniscule budget and lack of resources. Federal Emergency Management, that is what we expect FEMA to do, but without proper leadership or a proper budget, especially in a time when we are under constant worry of terrorism, is irresponsible. If Bush fails to place competent people in positions of responsibility, then he himself has failed us. I'm not looking to blame Bush because of who he is, but I have to lay blame where blame is due. The management and operation of FEMA is critical at this point, and this test of the system has proven to be a huge failure. If his people fail, he fails.

you are entitiled to your opion, however wrong it is. Its is the state's responsibility to direct the leaders of FEMA where to go and what to do. FEMA began preparing for this disaster as soon as it was realized it was going to hit. The second disaster of the levees breaking compounded the problem. I agree FEMA took a while to get in full force, which is part of the problem but it is not the federal governments responsibility to lead the efforts. During the OKC bombing, Gov. Frank Keating did a bang up job coordinating the effort on search and rescue and the aftermath. Same thing after the May 3rd tornados in which several cities were comepletely destroyed and you have no warning with tornados.
9\11 it was Mayor Guilliani who took command and lead the efforts following the attacks. FEMA is an agency that prvodes ASSISTANCE not leadership. the leadership is supposed to be provided by the states elected officials. Yes FEMA trains and helps the STATE develop disaster plans, but they don't know the layout of every city in america, thats ridiculous! It is the responsibility of each state to have the plans in place and FEMA helps them execute those plans. A lot of people messed up on this one, but it all started with the state. I don't care how poor a state is, they still have the responsibilty to plan for natural disasters. Oklahoma isn't a rich state, its at the bottom end just like LA, but we have the absolute best planning and S&R teams in the country. Oklahomans went out to New York to assist the efforts there and Mayor G specificically thanked the efforts of the Oklahoma teams. Have you seen the govenor of louisiana? a couple of times in the first day and now she's nowhere to be found? That's bullshit. Where is the state leadership? its non-existent. what message is that sending to the rest of the country? now FEMA and other agencies have HAD to take over where is not there job. If LA had quality, intelligent leadership, this would have never happened. The national guard CANNOT  be sent in by the president. the National guard is controlled in these situations by the governor. HMMMMM, where is she? The state agencys sent people to the superdome, where the directors (past and present) of FEMA had told New orleans to NEVER SEND ANYBODY THERE IN CASE OF AN EMERGENCY because it is not properly set up for that situation and it is vulnerable itself. What happened, it had to be evacuated as soon as it was filled because it was putting people in jeopardy. Not to mention the scum that lives in NO. There 3 murders and numerous rapes IN THE SUPERDOME, not to mention the convention center and other various areas of NO. Believe me, the fault is not Bush's or FEMAs it all started at the state level.

these prices are killin me my durango gets 14 miles per gallon, i hardley ever rode my gs anymore but i guess ill start breaking it out all year around now. Oh yea i work for Halliburton and they love the gas prices i just wish the cash flow would trickle down to me out in the field lol .

WTF happed to my thread? I never indended this to be a Bush bashing session.

PS gas is now 3.09 a gallon.

here in sd 3.30 is average (albeit on the cheaper side).


:x  :x  :x

my driving/riding is seriously curtailed....

WOW, that was just a waste of time reading all that 5 pages. To think of it, why am I even writing, just wasting more time. But Hey, its Labor Day!

buick, I'm getting tired of this post now, so this is going to be my last post on the subject. you seem to be saying the same pointless opinions over and over, but you still haven't addressed any of my main points
1. why is a man with no previous disaster experience running FEMA?
2. why did it take until friday for substantial numbers of NG troops to finally start getting to New Orleans?
3. why is FEMA operating on a fraction of their previous budget?

yes, yes, yes, we all know that local and state officials seriously botched this up, nobody is arguing otherwise. the fact of the matter is that FEMA, and this administration were sadly slow in responding. You can't tell me that FEMA did a good job here, they didn't. I really wish people would stop letting this guy away with his inept management. By the way, the situation in both OK and NY are greatly different than the one in New orleans, you can't compare them to one another. If NY city or OK city were under water, you don't think that FEMA would have played a much larger role?
I'm done.

the director of FEMA has previous experience. He was a city manager in Oklahoma city overseeing disaster planning. I am not arguing he's the best man for the job. He isn't.

Terrorism has caused a lot of changes in this country, budgets get changed.

The troops have to be ordered by the state governor. nobody else can do that.

and by the wya, FEMA played huge roles in both OKC and NY, and they aren't that different. In both OKC and NY, there was no warning. Besides that, you seem to be taking everyhting I am saying and twisting it. I have said all along that the blame falls on everyone, but it all started and has continued with the state officials

Not to get this thread even further off-track, but an important point to be made: natural disasters are MUCH more dangerous, cause MUCH more damage, and occur MUCH more frequently than terrorist attacks. Putting aside the current blame game, gs2sv makes the point that diverting resources from disaster planning to antiterrorism is an insane move. Note that this is coming from someone in a city that is the nation's #1 target for terrorist attacks and all but immune to natural disasters. I understand that for the country as a whole, even if not for me personally, diverting huge amounts of resources to antiterrorism is simply bad policy. A certain wing of the Republican party has benefitted greatly from the recent focus on terrorism, but soon the majority of the country is going to realize that they aren't targets, and that their real needs aren't being addressed. Then this shortsighted political move is going to turn around and bite the GOP in the ass.

gs2sv, there is no reason to be smug about this. Insulting my intelligence is easy over the internet. Many people (including you) are throwing out all of this information expecting people to believe you. For instance... price gouging on the part of gas stations. WRONG! some maybe but not many. Different prices different days of the week. WRONG Bush responsibe for Katrina disaster. WRONG The govenor says it is a racist situation because NG didn't get there until Friday. The water didn't recede until then. The Mississippi was feeding the flooded areas. One can't fix a problem until it stabalizes. All this talk about FEMA is just another way to take the blame away from The City of New Orleans's poor planning. There are about 700,000 people that live there. I didn't waist my time checking numbers, but thats not too far off. Over 100,000 families had no transportation. The city had no way to evacuate them. Bush has nothing to do with it. He is the Nations Pres. Micromanaging the states is not HIS job.

Oh, and not going to war because you are afraid of gas going up a bit is a bit silly isn't it. "I'll set all of this aside and forget the problems of the world as long as my gas stays lower."   sheesh.

 -Anti  

Quote from: vfrocketPS gas is now 3.09 a gallon.

I paid $2.79 yesterday.  

2.99 here

$2.99 is about the average here...  But, I was down in Olympia.  They have lower (local) taxes down there.

We're still at 2.80-ish. I need to fill the bike and car up before it goes over $3.

Dave  

Here's my plan to beat gas prices...

1.  Buy a house somewhere really sunny.
2.  Install solar panels on every available sun-facing surface (and build more if needed).
3.  Install windmills to support the electric generation at night.
4.  Design and build gas to electric engine conversion kits for my cars and GS.[/list:u]  

In about 35 years, I should break even!