I try to keep the engine in the proper gear for the speed I travel, I don't lurch the bike or anything. The main reason being I want to be able to accelerate if anything goes wrong.

I prefer to rev match in my car as I can use the right side of my right foot to blip the throttle. This is second nature for me, but I am having trouble converting this to a bike skill. The GS has such a long throttle pull I can never get quite right. May be I should try a 1/4 turn throttle.

Sounds like we've really got 3 things here.

Conventional braking,
Clutch braking &
Engine braking.

Conventional braking wears your brake pads and rotors.
Downshifting and slipping the clutch untill your bike slows down to match the engine is wearing your clutch plates.
Downshifting, matching Revs, releasing the clutch lever then dropping your revs to slow down uses the engine compression to slow you down.
This last technique shouldn;t really be damaging to anything, except perhaps increasing the wear on your chain and sprockets.

I try to use engine braking with as little clutch braking as possible, but I'm not that great at it yet.

Quote from: phireMy downshifts are quick. I don't slowly release the clutch lever because that would IMO destroy the clutch quicker since it takes longer to make complete contact with the flywheel or whatever bikes have. Of course, I'm no mechanic and am new to the motorcycle world so what I say isn't a certified opinion.  

Important to note that motorcycle clutches ≠ auto clutches.  Cars have dry clutches, most m/c's have wet clutches.  They behave differently.  Motorcycles are much more tolerant to operating in the friction zone.  I'm no expert, but it is possible that you're putting more stress on the chain & drive bits, and possibly risking stutterring the rear wheel in order to spare the clutch unnecessarily, unless you're really good at matching the engine speed (in which case you really don't need the clutch at all anyway).

Related question:  I've heard that m/c trannies like to be loaded between shifts, and therefore you should always let out the clutch as you head down rather than bump down multiple gears...is there anything to this?

It's not hard to match revs....When I downshift that's what I do.

Quote from: porsche4786It's not hard to match revs....When I downshift that's what I do.

And if you do, it doesn't matter if you let out the clutch slow, fast, or don't use the clutch at all, right?  

'course one might have a problem if one should inadvertently drop more than one gear...then snapping out the clutch is going to provide a generally unpleasant surprise.

Yeah, I only go 1 gear at a time, unless I am going very slow, haven't done more than 1 at a time on the bike yet, but in my car I might go from 4th to 2nd if i've slowed a lot.

from the many discussions on the topic i've read lately (a little off topic):
downshifting/engine braking when coming to a stop INCREASES fuel mileage... at least on modern cars.  the engine is kept spinning by drawing from the kinetic energy of the car moving forward, not the energy from igniting gasoline.  the computer realizes this and cuts fuel to near zero when engine-braking.  this may be the same case with carbs through some trick of vacuum/velocity, but i'm not sure.

i just started riding a month ago, but i pretty much always downshift through the gears, letting out on the clutch as i go through them (engine braking) as i come to a stop.  what else do you do?  clutch in, then kick it down to first from 5th/6th or whatever?  what if you are in traffic and need to go from 50 to 15 then accellerate again?  i like my method better (for now at least).

That may be true for cars, but there's no computer on the GS so I don't think the theory applies. But what do I know?  :dunno:

Dave  

Quote from: ShadowFire
"its always cheaper to replace brake pads than to replace a clutch...."

unless you dont use a clutch...

I downshift both without a clutch or when slowing down agressively (like the rear getting loose agressively) I will use the clutch to prevent further rear lockage. But the latter is more the braking you would see on the track.

when you shift without using the clutch and slowing down, do you just hit it down 1 at a time without letting the engine over rev? or do you rev it up also? I find it hard on a bike to brake smoothly while downshifting. like in a car you can heel toe.

Quote from: porsche4786like in a car you can heel toe.

Do you still have all of the fingers on your right hand?  Use the first 2 on the brake, the others blip the throttle.  

Practice, practice, practice.

it's kinda hard to rev it while braking i think

Quote from: porsche4786when you shift without using the clutch and slowing down, do you just hit it down 1 at a time without letting the engine over rev? or do you rev it up also? I find it hard on a bike to brake smoothly while downshifting. like in a car you can heel toe.

You have to give it gas for it to downshift if you aren't in the right rpm range... if not it just simply wont let you downshift, you'll hit down and it wont do anything... try it at low to mid rpms (4-5k) pull the throttle a bit and gently press down on the shifter, you will find it will eventually just slap into the other gear, with a little practice you can make it a smooth transition.

As for upshifting, do as you would normally when using the clutch but just dont use the clutch, if you are at the right rpm and released the throttle at the right time the shifter will just slip into the next gear... once again a bit of practice can make it seamless. If it doesnt make noise or crunch, and just shifts smoothly, you arent breaking the engine.

How many of you shift like that normally? What's the point of the clutch then? It's kinda like a sequential transmission.

Quote from: porsche4786How many of you shift like that normally? What's the point of the clutch then? It's kinda like a sequential transmission.

You can do the same with -any- manual transmission.  If the engine is spinning at the right speed for the gear the clutch is essentially optional.  The point of the clutch is to allow you to ease the drive together to give it time to arrive at the correct speed.

People have told me that this is something that, if not done all the time, should at least be occasionally practiced on the motorcycle...as it would be a really big help if you need to get home after snapping the clutch cable.   :dunno:

I went for a ride and shifted up and down without the clutch, easier to shift up gears than down. So it's still better to use the clutch though, right? In a car it's harder to do, usually you will just grind the gear.

Well yes its harder to downshift than upshift, simply because upshifting your shifting into a lower rpm range, the other way around its harder to make a smooth transition into a higher rpm range gear.

But really the clutch is still necessary for take off.

Most racebikes with some decent money will have a shift kit on it which allow for full throttle clutchless upshifts, and a slipper clutch for smoother downshifting without any chances of locking the rear wheel.

For simple street riding, clutchless riding can be practiced and used, however sometimes you just need the clutch. I usually use the clutch when im in a really big "babying" mood. Oh and yes I also find it harder to do in a car without grinding gears.

Quote from: gs500fromnbBut really the clutch is still necessary for take off.

It is possible to get underway without it, it's just not pleasant or practical (but probably better than waiting for a tow if your clutch cable breaks).  That is: start in neutral, blip the gas, kick it down and jerk to a start.  Not pleasant...but technically speaking, the clutch is not "necessary".

Quote from: Badger

Quote from: gs500fromnbBut really the clutch is still necessary for take off.

It is possible to get underway without it, it's just not pleasant or practical (but probably better than waiting for a tow if your clutch cable breaks).  That is: start in neutral, blip the gas, kick it down and jerk to a start.  Not pleasant...but technically speaking, the clutch is not "necessary".

Or start it in first... probably really hard on the starter but I've seen it work in cars plenty of times when the clutch was fried..