I've recently discovered the sheer thrill, unrelenting joy, and unrivaled pleasures of hanging off. I've noticed that when I hang off in corners the bike feels much more stable, much more planted than would otherwise be if I were sitting on it normally. And the more I hang off the better the bike feels.

Is this just an illusion, or does hanging off the bike alleviate the suspension, allowing it to soak up the bumps better? I'd think that with your mass off the bike the suspension doesn't have to work as hard; or am I just making shaZam! up? I noticed that when my ass is on the seat it feels rougher than that of when I'm hanging off half-way (ass half of the seat) which in turn is rougher than when I'm hanging all the way off, my skinny ass self hanging like a monkey from a tree. So, what is my suspension doing during all this?

Not having your rear on the seat reduces the communication of bike to rider.  Stand way up on the footpegs, and the bike feels smoother.

So it's just misleading, basically?

That was my take, but IANAROEAVGTR.

What the hell? That's not an acronym, that's you having a seizure and hitting your keyboard in the process.

It happens.

IAmNotARacerOrEvenAVeryGoodTrackRider

So you're not sure wether or not it alleviates pressure on the suspension?

Hm.  It redistributes it... you're going to create a lateral force on the suspension that isn't present when you're just riding straight.  I mean, your weight is not absent the system just because your rear is no longer on the bike.

Where's that post whore moderator?

I have no idea what that means.

For a given speed (X) and radius of curve (Y), the effective lean angle will be Z.  Z is only changes with speed or radius of curvature.

If you stay on the seat, with your center of gravity over the bikes center of gravity, and take Y curve at X speed, the lean angle of you and the bike will be Z.

If you hang off the bike, placing your center of gravity lower to the ground, the effective lean angle will be somewhere between a line drawn from your center of gravity to the contact patch and the bikes center of gravity to the contact patch.  Effectively, this reduces the lean of the bike and increases cornering clearance.  This means you can take a given corner faster without dragging anything.

To the best of my knowledge, that's all it does.  Well, other than look cool...  There are other factors involved, but that's the basics.  Draw a free-body diagram and you'll see what I mean.    

As I recall, the combined forces will always be equal to the weight of the bike - balanced system.  i.e. in a turn, the vertical component is reduced by x amount and the horizontal component is increased by x amount.  It helps to visualize the centripital force as a string pulling on the combined CG...

Yeah, I've done free body diagrams involving COG, and I know that lowering it allows you to corner faster, but I never got into the suspension workings during those diagrams. That was too advanced for my level. That and I am not exactly a suspension expert. I've got basic ideas, but nowhere near enough knowledge to evaluate this type of question.

But yeah. It does look cool.    

I'm thinking RG is right though. It only makes it SEEM like the bike is smoother because you personally have less body touching the bike, reducing the bike to rider communication. The suspension compresses the same amount, and since it's moving UNSPRUNG weight, rather than your SPRUNG weight, it's moving the same amount.

Right?

the suspension is meant to work vertically, not when bike is leaned way over so when you're haning off the suspension is in a better working environment and can soak up road better. has to do with lean angle as stated above.

Thank you, Pablo!

Is it squidly to hang off on public roads?

Quote from: AlphaFire X5I've recently discovered the sheer thrill, unrelenting joy, and unrivaled pleasures of hanging off.

thats how I take the on/off ramps and the few twisty roads here in Kansas.  Its way fun  

Quote from: AlphaFire X5

I'm thinking RG is right though. It only makes it SEEM like the bike is smoother because you personally have less body touching the bike, reducing the bike to rider communication. The suspension compresses the same amount, and since it's moving UNSPRUNG weight, rather than your SPRUNG weight, it's moving the same amount.

Right?

thats not quite right. whether you hang off or sit on the seat you are SPRUNG weight. unsprung weight is that which is between the suspension and the ground-wheels, bottom half of forks, etc. If you hang off you're still affecting the suspension. In fact, it only takes one time when you arent smooth in hanging off to see the effect it has on the suspension!

And yes, its squidly to hang off on public roads...welcome to how most of us ride! I hang off but I rarely touch down a knee. IMO, it looks most squidly when its done unneccesarily, like its being done at too slow a speed or too vertical a lean angle. When I ride the canyons I hit them pretty hard (harder than is prudent ) and hanging off helps. I know, I know...my bad.

Quote from: AlphaFire X5Thank you, Pablo!

Is it squidly to hang off on public roads?

I don't think so, it makes the bike more stable so is safer and very good to do on wet roads as the bike will be more vertical so the tyres will grip better.

it IS squidly IMO because you shouldnt be riding on public roads at such high speeds to need the added stability of hanging off...

You guys are making things WAY over complicated i think.

Having said that, feel free to correct me if you disagree.

As to your observation of the bike feeling more stable whilst hanging off.  My guess is that the 'stability' you feel is actually the reduced moment that your body exerts on the bike as a result of lining your mass along the combined vector of gravity and centripetal force.   The bike isn't really any more stable... its just that since you are lined up with the bike, the impusle exerted by your movements has less of an effect on the bike. (The same reason why a lever is easier to move at the very end than closer to the fulcrum).

As to the suspension... the only thing you're doing is shifting weight off the back wheel/springs to the front wheel/springs.  In order to correctly 'hang off' (and not eat pavement from a lowside), you have to shift  more weight forward towards the handlebars/front of the bike than in  typical 'normal' riding position.

As to why hanging off = tighter turns?  There are probably a few dozen ways to explain it via applied centripetal force and other physics terms.... but the easiest way (for me) to understand it is that by doing so you are decreasing the amount of mass and distance that  has to be traversed in the turn (a  portion of the mass goes the same distance it normally would,  while the hanging off portion doesn't travel as far).

Let me also say that hanging off is not a maneuver without risk!  Although it can be helpful to help one squeeze out a tight turn that one went into too fast....  it is really only useful in leaned turns at a pretty good rate of speed.  Hanging off in a low or normal speed turn stands a 1/3 chance of making you drop your bike on smooth pavement..... 1/2 chance of dropping your bike if you're on a bumpy patch of road.

If it seems like something that you want to try, then find a safe patch of deserted road/parking lot.... gear up (including case guards for your poor bike), find a more experienced rider and bring them with you.

Quote from: TarzanBoyYou guys are making things WAY over complicated i think.

damn tarzanboy-isnt that like the pot calling the kettle black! :nana: talk about complicated.

leaning off (or hanging off) can be done at any speed and with good throttle control will not give greater chance of crashing at low speeds. Funny aside, I can get my knee down on the street at low speeds much easier than at higher speeds-I mean at like 30mph knee down vs 75mph.

normal riding position vs hanging off-same weight distribution front to back. You should control that with throttle, getting on the throttle in a turn so you weight the rear wheel, irrespective of where you are on the bike.

Bottom line-hanging off gets your center of gravity lower with the result that for a given speed the lean angle when hanging off will be less than the lean if you were sitting bolt upright.

I guess I disagree... :dunno:

Alpha when you are hanging off the bike you are making it more stable and the suspension is able to work better. It has to do with a combination of simple physics and movement. Your bikes suspension absorbs bumps in the up and down motion, as you notice when you are straight up and down going down the road, the forks go straight up and straight down, as you lean the motorcycle is still aborbing these up and down bumps, but the forks themselves are now at an angle and no longer straight up and down. So essentially the more the bike is leaned over, the rougher the ride because the forks do not give in a side to side movement, which is the way a mid corner bump wants to push them when you are leaned over, the side wall of the tire pushing towards the other sidewall. a mid corner bump still pushes straight up, however the forks no longer are are able to absorb bumps as well due to the lean angle, in that they themselves are not facing straight up and are no longer directly over the tires, they are now to the sides of the tires. The greater the lean the more rigid the bike becomes, as the suspension can not do its job the same.

As you discussed earlier hanging off lowers your center of gravity. This helps you keep the bike more upright in turns, which increases contact patch as well as helping the suspension keep an angle that can better absorb the road (as upright as possible). Another advantage of hanging off is that you can use your knee to help you figure out the lean angle. Using this as a tool in riding. If you keep your body position the same in every corner, you will know the exact lean angle of the bike during the corner, using your knee as a feeler gauge. It is important to  get off the bike and have a standard body position being off the bike as much as possible, and go to that position every time, which keeps your feeler gauge accurate. For this reason, I don't find it squidly to hang off on the streets, I do it to help me remember the body position I use in corners on the track putting my butt in the same spot it would be in if I was entering a corner on the track. Its all about consistency and familiarity. Just because I'm hanging off does not mean I have to take a corner at a high rate of speed and put my knee down, it just helps me stay in practice of the body position I use when I am going fast. If you know how to properly counter steer, and how to properly take a turn, and are familiar with how the bike handles when you are hanging off, then there is no more danger than if you are riding your bike in the familiar ass over the seat position the rest of you use, even if it is a slow turn.

I'm not that great at explaining things, but I hope the parts about the suspension's working mid corner bumps helped. That should help explain the better ride by hanging off.

-Patrick