Now that I have your attention (or at least Pablo's)....

The world was wet this morning when I started my morning commute. When I would downshift setting up to turn a corner, my back tire would lose traction. This was at slow speed, shifting down into first... It happened a couple of times on the surface streets (no white paint or oil slicks that I could see).

Now, is this because new stock tires suck (I have slightly over 1K miles on the tires now...out of break-in baby!! w00t!), or is this rider error? I was going quite slowly, and I don't think I was downshifting too quickly, but  :dunno: ...

Any comments--useful or otherwise--welcome (except from JetSwing...I'll simply tolerate his comments!  :lol:  :kiss: )

Thanks!!  :mrgreen:

Were you letting the clutch out fast?

I spin my tire on dry pavement when I let the clutch out too fast.

You need to match revs when you downshift.  Give it throttle to make the revs match the rear wheel speed for the new gear when you release the clutch. Otherwise the engine will try to make the rear tire spin at a speed that is not the bike's speed.  Better traction conditions will cover up not rev-matching, so rain is good practice.

Easing clutch out slowly and carefully, especially after the first time.  

It was only a slight non-gripping by the tire, but certainly enough to get my attention!

I do it 'cause it's fun.   :lol:

I was about to say, but RG beat me.

Rev matching people!

Takes practice, but once you get used to the character of the bike, it becomes second nature.

Roadstergal is right.  Rev-match.  While you are letting out the clutch lever slowly, "blip" the throttle (give it a little gas) while you're in neutral on the way to first gear.  If you practice and master this, this will really smooth out your downshifts.

Quote from: RoadstergalYou need to match revs when you downshift.  Give it throttle to make the revs match the rear wheel speed for the new gear when you release the clutch. Otherwise the engine will try to make the rear tire spin at a speed that is not the bike's speed.  Better traction conditions will cover up not rev-matching, so rain is good practice.

So, if I'm understanding correctly, I'm probably not giving *enough* throttle after the shift? My mind tells me that I should ease off on the throttle because I'm going faster than the back tire...? Let me know if I have this wrong.... my mind isn't wanting to grasp this concept too well (yes, it's getting the matching revs to rear wheel, but it's not wanting to wrap itself around the more-throttle part)....

On the GS, I found that I *did* downshift too fast sometimes, and the back end would wobble (now THAT will wake you up), but I thought I was cured of that on the SVS, especially since his controls are more sensitive than the GS's.

I guess I'm going to have to do more wet-pavement riding if the dry pavement has been hiding my mistakes!  

Quote from: xtalman.. If you practice and master this, this will really smooth out your downshifts.

Uh...my downshifting isn't the most graceful at times.... it sounds as though I have some rev-matching practice to do!  

Quote from: pandySo, if I'm understanding correctly, I'm probably not giving *enough* throttle after the shift? My mind tells me that I should ease off on the throttle because I'm going faster than the back tire...? Let me know if I have this wrong.... my mind isn't wanting to grasp this concept too well (yes, it's getting the matching revs to rear wheel, but it's not wanting to wrap itself around the more-throttle part)....

If you're downshifting, the engine will be spinning more slowly than the rear wheel.  Think about it as going x mph at 4000rpm.  When you go down a gear, you're still going x mph, but that corresponds to 6000rpm in the new, lower gear.  So if you just let out the clutch, the engine will want to spin the rear wheel at what 4000rpm is in the new gear, which is less than x mph.  Since the bike is still going x mph, the speed of the bike and the speed of the rear wheel will not be the same, and the rear wheel will slip.

If you blip the throttle to 6000 rpm, however, everybody will now be on the same page, and the shift will be smooth.

This is especially important on the SV, because it has more torque than the GS and will spin the wheel at the engine speed more forcefully if you don't rev-match.

It's a matter of practice - you can't memorize all of the proper RPM, so you eventually just get a feeling for how much to blip.

More throttle. When you downshift your engine needs to go faster to match the rear wheel. Shifting gears doesn't magically make the rear wheel slow down, it just alters the gear ratio between the engine and the rear wheel.

Ok! This makes perfect sense to me! Thanks for 'splaining so clearly...my mind isn't resisting the "more throttle" idea now...it makes sense! I was thinking that the back tire was what was going more slowly (why would it? I don't know, but that's what my mind was thinking!  :lol: ) I guess I was thinking about it more as a front-end vs. back-end speed when it's actually a bike speed vs. engine speed...yes?

Thanks!  :mrgreen:  

Quote from: RoadstergalIf you're downshifting, the engine will be spinning more slowly than the rear wheel.  Think about it as going x mph at 4000rpm.  When you go down a gear, you're still going x mph, but that corresponds to 6000rpm in the new, lower gear.  So if you just let out the clutch, the engine will want to spin the rear wheel at what 4000rpm is in the new gear, which is less than x mph.  Since the bike is still going x mph, the speed of the bike and the speed of the rear wheel will not be the same, and the rear wheel will slip.

If you blip the throttle to 6000 rpm, however, everybody will now be on the same page, and the shift will be smooth.

This is especially important on the SV, because it has more torque than the GS and will spin the wheel at the engine speed more forcefully if you don't rev-match.

It's a matter of practice - you can't memorize all of the proper RPM, so you eventually just get a feeling for how much to blip.

Quote from: pandyit's actually a bike speed vs. engine speed...yes?

Ig-zactly!  

In a car you would pull in the clutch, shift to neutral, let go of clutch, blip, pull in the clutch, down shift, let go of clutch but since there's only one neutral point in a bike it would be difficult to do so...

Am I correct on a bike you pull in the clutch, shift down, blip, let go of clutch? Is that correct?

Quote from: pandy
.. My mind tells me that I should ease off on the throttle because I'm going faster than the back tire...?

If you are going faster than the back tire, you have done a stoppie and catapulted yourself off the bike, and should probably practice your braking, too.   :lol:

Seriously though, everyone else here has explained it pretty well.  Try it on dry pavement.  Get going in 3rd gear, then try downshifting to second:

1)Clutch lever in
2)Click down one gear with the shifter
3)Blip throttle, raising RPMS about 1000-2000 higher
4)Slowly release clutch lever

I think I got that right, but I don't even think of the steps anymore.

Quote from: RoadstergalIg-zactly!  

You 'splained it in nice, simple, step-by-step, no-more-than two-syllable words, so even my simple brain was able to grasp the concept!  :lol:  :kiss:

Quote from: xtalmanIf you are going faster than the back tire, you have done a stoppie and catapulted yourself off the bike, and should probably practice your braking, too.   :lol:

pandy doing a stoppie....  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:    :lol:

I got a good workout just from laughing at this vision!  :kiss:  :lol:

Quote from: toole2goIn a car you would pull in the clutch, shift to neutral, let go of clutch, blip, pull in the clutch, down shift, let go of clutch but since there's only one neutral point in a bike it would be difficult to do so...

Am I correct on a bike you pull in the clutch, shift down, blip, let go of clutch? Is that correct?

Yeah, you're right, I made a mistake earlier with the "neutral" remark.  In a car though, you can do the same thing, you don't necessarily have to be in neutral to blip the throttle.  You can just have the clutch in also.

Quote from: toole2goIn a car you would pull in the clutch, shift to neutral, let go of clutch, blip, pull in the clutch, down shift, let go of clutch but since there's only one neutral point in a bike it would be difficult to do so...

You don't have to double-clutch with synchros.  On my cars, I always just blipped with the clutch in while I was shifting.  Faster.

In cars I much prefer to downshift like this...  Press in clutch, shift, pop clutch.