Is it acceptable to crash?

Bike, Car, or Software? :dunno:

This is a loaded question. If one says it's ok to crash, one might be seen as condoning careless behaviour.

If one says it's NOT ok to crash, one might be seen as heartless and without compassion, because accidents DO happen.

The question seems to say, "Is it acceptable to crash on purpose, whenever you want, or absolutely, positively never, ever, for any reason whatsoever?" There's no gray. Where's the "depends" option!?  :dunno:  

Quote from: pandyWhere's the "depends" option!?  :dunno:  

I never lost bladder control in my crash.

Our motorcycles.

This is stemming from a topic in General, and instead of bastardizing that thread I thought it would be prudent to move the discussion of wheather or not it is acceptable to crash our motorcycles to a dedicated thread.

"It happens."
"There are two groups of motorcyclists, ones that have crashed,and ones that have yet to crash."

In my opionion, these two statements surrender our choice of crashing to more of a "when". If we can change our mindset, will it change the outcome?

What is our first priority then? Identifying the problem; this is of course assuming we have a problem. Do we have a problem with crashing? Why?

acceptable...never...



.....inevitable  :lol:

If its due to squiding about or just general foolishness, then NEVER.  

Other times I guess it depends on the circumstances  :dunno:

So answer the second (or third) part...  I do believe it's not about "if," it's about "when."  But, that's why I wear gear...  If I thought I was never going to crash, I'd wear the legal minimum and not give a damn about the rest.

The answer to the first question is: depends...  

1. If you were pulling a wheelie going 60+ MPH and you crash...  Or you're going 75 MPH down a 35 MPH city street and you crash...  Well, it's not alright and you deserve what you get for being a f%$king moron.  Risk your own life as you see fit, but when you f%$k up and end up in a wheelchair don't expect me to feel bad...  (Kinda like the guy I know that blew his hand off 'cause he was being a moron.)

2. If you crash through no fault of your own

(up for debate), then why would that be "not alright?"  You did what you could to avoid it (up for debate) and still managed to crash...   :dunno:  shaZam! happens.

3.  If you crash due to lack of experience...  That's a tough one.  On one hand you have people that are so afraid to crash/drop that they never ride, never get better at riding, and are more likely to crash/drop...   On the other hand you have people that just jump on a bike with no training and think they're superstars...  And crash.  Both of those people fall into the stupid category if you ask me...  'cause right there in the middle are the people that have little experience and some training...  Practicing where they can practice and risking a crash/drop every time they try something new.[/list:u]

So...  I think crashes happen...  But, I think we should do our best to avoid them.  And with that answer, I can't vote.   :dunno:

It's okay if you don't vote, but the true purpose of this thread is to debate/discuss and to reason to an end, the acceptability of crashing; that is why no grey area was selected. While circumstances may indicate otherwise, almost everything else points to rider error. I'm not saying it's unacceptable to the point you're going to be alienated or ostracised by the general riding public, and I am by far not perfect, but what I am trying to to is see if there's a possibility to change our outlook on crashing to the point where someone could go their entire riding career without crashing due to things they could have avoided.

Should I change the poll, or start a new poll, asking "If it was socially unacceptable to crash, and you crashed, would you feel like you would be socially ostracised?"?

Another thing I would like to accomplish in this thread is a solution to crashing. We all know education would likely be the key as it was pointed out here:

Quote from: gsmetalI'm a little lost on these posts from new riders who get their license - while it's a license to drive on the street, it does't mean you automatically have the wisdom and skills to be ON the street.

In my opinion the DMV is way to generous on granting licenses. I don't even need to argue my point because you made it for me - by crashing.

I've taught plenty of people over the years that have taken and passed the MSF course and have no clue about getting out of first gear or what to look for while riding on the street.

We see these posts from new riders crashing all the time here. Whatever happend to developing your skills in a parking lot?

Lucky for you, you crashed into a barrier and not another car or a person crossing the street on foot.

Well, I suppose that I consider a "drop" to be in the same category as a "crash."  I dropped my bike due to rider error and being an totally irresponsible ass.       That's not acceptable IMO.

But, my sister "crashed" (very minor damage) twice due to inexperience.  Once she snatched the front brake and dropped...  and another time she was trying to avoid a dog and hit a curb...  And that was after the MSF course.

So, is there something wrong with screwing up like my sister?  I don't think so...  She was trying to practice in a lonely parking lot and on empty suburban streets.  She took the MSF course... She was wearing her gear...  Yet, she got nervous, screwed up and crashed due to rider error...  But, she was trying to practice riding.  How else is she supposed to learn?   :dunno:

As with the thread this came from...  The guy was out practicing and screwed up.  I assumed he took the MSF course and was wearing his gear...  He didn't hurt anyone but himself and his bike...  

Is he at fault?  Is it unacceptable to screw up?  

How can anyone expect to learn without screwing up?

I don't think crashing is inevitable.  I had my hit before I took the MSF.  Now, it was the other gal's fault; she was cited, etc.  But looking back - with more experience, I could have avoided it.  I've been in closer calls since then with more clueless cagers.  My intent is to make that one hit my only one, and to go crash-free for the rest of my life (not counting a lowside at a track day - there, it's intentionally pushing your limits off of the street (safe environment) to learn them).  I think that intent has altered my mental approach to riding.  I never let myself be a passenger.  Ever.

Yes, yes, how would we learn if we didn't make mistakes? We learn from our mistakes. But, now couldn't we learn from other's mistakes? Could we educate ourselves to the point of MSF course instructors?

On the road? never! On the dirt? ALL THE TIME

Quote from: scratchIs it acceptable to crash?

it is acceptable to acknowledge and sympathize with someone for crashing.

it is acceptable to acknowledge our own shortcomings as human beings and own up to contributions to one's own crash.

It is acceptable to consider the possibility and protect yourself as much as possible with gear and smart riding.

It is not acceptable to deny the possibility of a crash.

Its not acceptable to think you're going to crash every time you get on the bike, except as far as it adjusts your mindset before you depart. If you do, you shouldnt be riding.

It is acceptable to flame someone for squiddly behavior ending in a crash... :nana:

I tend to think it's never acceptable to crash. As a motorcyclist, there's always something that could have been done on our part to avoid it. It's a matter of having more preparation every time we get on our bikes and being more defensive as we ride around.

Quote from: RoadstergalMy intent is to make that one hit my only one, and to go crash-free for the rest of my life (not counting a lowside at a track day - there, it's intentionally pushing your limits off of the street (safe environment) to learn them).  

pushing limits in track = lowside = crash = inevitable  :mrgreen:

I think it's acceptable to crash, but only if you learn from your mistake and take precautions not to repeat it!

Babies fall taking their first steps.
Kids fall trying to ride their bikes without training wheels.
Hundreds of thousands of teenagers have crashed learning how to drive    Ooops, that was a bad analogy!  

Gear up, get educated, don't be stupid.  We can't be perfect all the time, just need to minimize what happens when we aren't perfect.

mistakes, accidents...we do all the time in every aspect of our lives. why wouldn't it be ok on motorcycle?

if it didn't kill you, it can only make you stronger.