Hey all,

I had a teeny tiny little accident on Sunday (read about it here), so I need a new starter relay.  For some odd reason, even though I went down on the left side, the relay went out.  Anyone with a spare working one?  I'd rather not have to buy a new one.

--A

Forgive me ... I can't remember your wrenching history ... but what tells you that the relay has gone out?

no problem kerry, here's how i arrived at it:

after i went down, the bike wouldn't start.  it bump-started fine, but no juice was going to the starter motor.

today i rounded up the usual suspects.  i disconnected the terminal that leads from the starter relay to the starter motor and gave it a shot---no click.  then i reconnected the terminal and bridged the gap with a screwdriver---the bike started right up.

i'm guessing that means a bad relay, but it does seem odd to me.  i went down on the *left* side, so why should the relay be busted?

BTW, the sidestand/neutral switches all check out okay.  maybe i'm wrong?

Hmmm.  There really should be an audible "Click", but I don't know if I would toss a relay just because it was quiet.  

I'll wager that no voltage is being applied to the relay because of something being broken on the left side of the bike.  See if the plastic tab is broken off inside the clutch-activated switch housing.



If everything else checks out, and 12 volts are definitely being applied to the starter relay, try the resistance test shown in this old post.

I'm going with Kerry on this. The starter relay would be really hard to kill. The most likely culprit is not energizing the relay. John Bates' simplified starter circuit is a great resource for this.

Here it is.

wow, thanks for the diagram...i thought it was a little strange that my starter showed signs of being toast after going down on the left side.

i'll check out the clutch switch and get back to y'all.  could that be the culprit even if bridging the contacts on the relay started the bike up?  i don't see how having a broken circuit in the clutch switch would allow the bike to start if the starter relay contacts are bridged.

oh, and BTW, any chance of moving this thread to General Discussion??? :mrgreen:

Quote from: AR5ENALwow, thanks for the diagram...

Care for another one?  

Quote from: AR5ENALcould that be the culprit even if bridging the contacts on the relay started the bike up?

Absolutely!

Quote from: AR5ENALi don't see how having a broken circuit in the clutch switch would allow the bike to start if the starter relay contacts are bridged.

Let's see if I can talk this one through.  First, find the following portion of the full diagram that I linked to above:



The lower red wire and the solid black wire are the ones you saw when you exposed the terminals on the starter relay.  By "bridging" those contacts you are effectively bypassing the relay entirely, and connecting the + terminal of the battery directly to the starter motor contact.

In normal operation, the relay is all that stands between the battery and the starter motor.  The vertical black bar in the diagram (to the right of the "Starter relay" label) is an "internal bridge" within the relay housing.  When it moves to the right and contacts the two white circles, it will close the circuit just like your temporary "bridge".

What makes it move to the right?  A magnetic field that is set up when the relay coil is energized by voltage that's applied via the yellow-green and black-white wires in the diagram.  How is that voltage applied?  By closing all of the interlock switches:

• ignition switch
  
• engine kill switch
  
• clutch switch
  
• sidestand switch
  
• start button[/list:u]So, if power doesn't make it through all of the "gates" the relay won't operate.  But if you skip the relay entirely and connect the battery directly to the starter motor you're in business.
  
  Make sense?  :dunno:
  
  

  Quote from: AR5ENALoh, and BTW, any chance of moving this thread to General Discussion???

  Done.  

Aha...makes total sense now.  And BTW, you were right.  I disassembled the clutch switch, cleaned up the contact a bit (all the pieces were intact), put 'er back on, and she started right up.

The only thing better than getting your GS running again is getting your GS running again for free.  Thanks again for your help!

If Kerry charged for his services, he could have retired by now.  

What a great thread!  

Quote from: Kerry on July 13, 2005, 11:05:51 PM
So, if power doesn't make it through all of the "gates" the relay won't operate.  But if you skip the relay entirely and connect the battery directly to the starter motor you're in business.
Make sense?  :dunno:

Sorry, but I'm not getting how I can skip the relay. Is it a change in wiring? Or do I just keep a screwdriver with me to bridge the connection that way?



Scott

Yes.

Quote from: Kerry on July 13, 2005, 11:05:51 PMThe lower red wire and the solid black wire are the ones you saw when you exposed the terminals on the starter relay.  By "bridging" those contacts you are effectively bypassing the relay entirely, and connecting the + terminal of the battery directly to the starter motor contact.

You just keep a screwdriver with you.

Not really meaning to resurrect an old thread...but putting it here I guess would be better than starting another one...


Anyway...When I use the screwdriver to try to start it, it will crank a little, but not start. Then after a few tries it sounds like the battery is dead (or dying).
The bike seems hard to push start at times as well; maybe 3 or 4 tries when it's at almost full choke (twice as long when it's cold).
Is this just a tuning issue? Do I need to clean my carbs?

Count one confused newbie

Scott

I wish Kerry would come back!!!

Quote from: skoebl on January 12, 2006, 08:01:17 PMAnyway...When I use the screwdriver to try to start it, it will crank a little, but not start. Then after a few tries it sounds like the battery is dead (or dying)...

I believe you have found your probable problem...the battery.

There are several posts regarding batteries dying if you wish to dig through a search for them.

Things to check:
1) Fluid level - use distilled water if necessary to fill to the correct level (this assumes you have a serviceable battery, sealed batteries don't have access).
2) Connections - at the battery, at the lower part of the engine (that's where the large black cable from the battery terminates), at the stater motor, none should have corrosion or dirt on them.
3) Battery charge - if #1 and #2 are fine, the age/use of the battery may be at end of life. Take it to an chain auto parts store and have it tested.

If all the above is ok, try jumping the battery from a car battery (with the engine of the car OFF). If it starts up fine, it still points at the battery or possibly the charging system. The battery/system is my bet with the information you've given.

Actually turned out being a combination of both...The starter relay went out...and the battery needed a good charge. Both are fixed now, so my only problem is needing the carbs cleaned and balanced (I think  )