Ok so i looked up the procedure for cleaning and lubing the chain. One thing that struck me was that a few places hinted on the rear wheel rotating freely whilst on the centre stand in neutral.

If the GS is on it's centre stand in neutral should the rear wheel turn freely with little or no effort or is it normal for it to take some force to get it to rotate. My GS takes a bit of effort to get the wheel to turn (in the direction of forward travel)

i have also noticed that whilst my bike is on it's sidestand in neutral, if i give it some revs it very very slightly tries to roll forward. I am talking millimeters but i am sure this should not happen, could this be a problem with the clutch, could the two problems be related?

Any advice would be really appreciated.

My 94 GS has the same thing, when i have the clutched pulled in and give it some revs, i get the same tiny movement forwards, maybe the clutch cable is on its way out, any thoughts...

I haven't tried this with the clutch pulled in (disengaged) but thinking about it it would make at least a little more sense for this rolling to occur if the clutch was engaged. 
The way i fugure it though is that the clutch should have no bearing on drive if the bike is in neutral, unfortunately I don't know enough about transmissions to come up with a possible cause.

I have not inspected the clutch cable as of yet so that is something to go on the todo list.

I don't think the wheel rotating while in neutral is a problem. I have had this happen on 3 of my bikes but this was only with the rear wheel in the air. Maybe the oil is a little sticky around the gearbox? I don't know but it has not caused me any problems.

I think your rear wheel being stiff is proberbly due to the rear brake dragging. Try getting some brake cleaner and cleaning the brake caliper pistons.

most bikes do that, according to improper adjusting of the clutch cable, soon as there is pressure on the tire, it won't move, my '05 does that, my buddy's 05 kawi 636 right out of the factory showroom does it, pretty normal!! and no there should be some pressure when you rotate the rear tire as you are turning the chain and sprocket also!! not a lot but some, the best was to grease chain is put it on centerstand put it in first gear while idling and slowly release the clutch, then grease the inside rollers on you chain as it will move outwards, this is by far the easiest way to grease your chain!!

Quote from: chefod on February 20, 2006, 08:02:01 AM
, the best was to grease chain is put it on centerstand put it in first gear while idling and slowly release the clutch, then grease the inside rollers on you chain as it will move outwards, this is by far the easiest way to grease your chain!!

I would recommend that you turn the wheel by hand, using your method and accidently touch a moving part or get your clothing trapped you risk serious injury. You maybe happy doing it this way but I would advise other people not to.

Sorry chefod

DO NOT LUBE YOUR CHAIN WHEN THE BIKE IS IN FIRST GEAR AND THE WHEEL MOVING!!!!

It is a really good way to lose a couple of fingers. Trust me when i say this that many people have lost fingers cuz something gets caught in the chain, like a rag or something and pulls there whole hand in. In fact someone on this very board lost a finger doing excalty this.

Just spin the wheel by hand slowly(!!!) and spray or apply the lube, your hands will thank you.

EDIT: ukchickenlover beat me too it

Thanks you guys, where would I be without this site?

I'll be inspecting the clutch adjustment and cable, lubing the chain (with engine OFF!!) and cleaning the back brake then.

just to mention though, i said the bike rolls ever so slightly forward when revved, well this is whilst i am sat on it and it the back wheel is on the ground, maybe the oil in the transmission isn't warmed enough and is causing a little bit of drive to the gears  

thanks again!!

what are you talking about, when i had dirtbikes, dual sport, etc, i didn't even have a centerstand, just leaned the back on the stand so the back wheel is off the ground and grease the chain while it's spinning, been doing it for years!!! but i guess if you're not comfortable with that to each their own!! also if the bike is just idling, it won't take much to stall it!!! for example i've stalled it out with the plastic straw on the end of the can of lube!! cause it's almost ready to quit anyways idling in first gear!

Quote from: chefod on February 20, 2006, 09:51:32 AM
what are you talking about, when i had dirtbikes, dual sport, etc, i didn't even have a centerstand, just leaned the back on the stand so the back wheel is off the ground and grease the chain while it's spinning, been doing it for years!!! but i guess if you're not comfortable with that to each their own!! also if the bike is just idling, it won't take much to stall it!!! for example i've stalled it out with the plastic straw on the end of the can of lube!! cause it's almost ready to quit anyways idling in first gear!

It's highly unsafe and not worth the risk. It doesn't take THAT much effort to move the rear wheel, and lubing the chain while the bike is running is downright foolish. The rear wheel spinning at idle has enough power to move me and the bike with my feet on the pegs (no "power walking"). That means there is MORE than enough power to pull some flesh off your bones. You said you stalled it with a plastic straw? I highly doubt that.

I say DON'T LUBE YOUR CHAIN WHILE THE BIKE IS RUNNING.

Before this becomes an internet war, you have your way and we have ours.  Leave well enough alone.  You made your points.  In gear is really easy (as long as you recognize the potential dangers).  By hand is really safe.

Back to the original subject.....

The wheel should turn smoothly and easily while in neutral with the engine off. Chain too tight, uncleaned chain, dragging brake, misaligned axle, worn sprockets, worn chain, dirty oil....all can be causes for drag.

The wheel will turn a little while the engine is running and the rear wheel off of the ground. This is due to the wet clutch and the friction of the oil in the plates. Completely normal.

  Is it OK if your wheel doesnt turn while in neutral on the center stand?

Yes.

Quote from: Richmore on February 20, 2006, 03:56:22 AM
Ok so i looked up the procedure for cleaning and lubing the chain. One thing that struck me was that a few places hinted on the rear wheel rotating freely whilst on the centre stand in neutral.

If the GS is on it's centre stand in neutral should the rear wheel turn freely with little or no effort or is it normal for it to take some force to get it to rotate. My GS takes a bit of effort to get the wheel to turn (in the direction of forward travel)

i have also noticed that whilst my bike is on it's sidestand in neutral, if i give it some revs it very very slightly tries to roll forward. I am talking millimeters but i am sure this should not happen, could this be a problem with the clutch, could the two problems be related?

Any advice would be really appreciated.

That seems a little excessive to me.  I'm no expert except that I rebuilt the tranny in my Kat which works on the same principles.  After rebuilding the tranny, when in neutral, the output shaft would spin almost freely while the driven shaft was locked by the clutch.  Once the oil seal is in place though it puts enough drag on it that it won't spin freely but still turns easily. 

In neutral, you should  be able to turn the wheel while on the center stand quite easily (unless the brake is dragging).  but as you have noted the bike will move forward while on the sidestand and in neutral if you give it some revs.  Seems to me that there must be a lot of dirt/metal debris in your transmission which is causing you a problem.  With my GS, there is enough drag in the tranny gears that the engine will turn the wheel while in neutral when the bike is on the center stand but it certainly is not enough to move the bike.  This effect has nothing to do with clutch cable adjustment.

Maybe you could try running some lighter weight oil in it for short period to try and flush out the dirt?  Dont' leave it in there long though.  Try flushing it a couple of times with the lighter oil. 

Anybody else have a a suggestion short of disassembly?


See the pic of the Kat transmission shafts here:

http://ca.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/robjhowe@rogers.com/album?.dir=/1d8f&.src=ph&.tok=phNpByDBPwyAq9du

He said the bike wants to edge forward momentarily when the rear wheel is on the ground and in neutral.  I think you're all over analyzing.  Mine does this merely due to rotational forces.  With the bike running and you rev, the crank is spinning and makes the bike move forward ever so slightly.  It's the same thing that makes your car rock when you give it gas (RWD).  It's from our bikes MASSIVE torque. 

But really, don't scare the guy.  I'd bet my paycheck that that's all it is, and it's completely fine.

I'm gonna haveta agree with oramac. Both my GS and a 185 I had do the same thing. I'd rev it up while adjusting the carbs, and the bike would start to move. Scared the heck outta me till I realized what it was =P

threadjack: all this talk of the bike creeping forward when it "shouldn't" brings up a question i didn't want to ask for fear of sounding like total newb:
when i knock it into first (when running) with the clutch in when cold, the bike wants to jump forward a bit.  when warm, it doesn't do that.  Similarly, I found that the non-running bike will have lots of resistance to getting pushed around in gear with the clutch in (if cold).  i figured this was something to do with the wet clutch, etc.  that's normal, right?

Yes.

Quote from: Slowe30 on February 22, 2006, 08:52:35 AM
threadjack: all this talk of the bike creeping forward when it "shouldn't" brings up a question i didn't want to ask for fear of sounding like total newb:
when i knock it into first (when running) with the clutch in when cold, the bike wants to jump forward a bit.  when warm, it doesn't do that.  Similarly, I found that the non-running bike will have lots of resistance to getting pushed around in gear with the clutch in (if cold).  i figured this was something to do with the wet clutch, etc.  that's normal, right?

Try adjusting the clutch lever free play. When you pull in the clutch is will feel loose at first then tension. The loose part is the free play, if you reduce this you will be able to pull the clutch open more. You can do this at the clutch handle and at the side of the engine. It will be described in the haynes manual.