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You have three options:

Option #1 is to drill as you describe with a hand drill.  Yes, it can work, but only if you're feeling very lucky and have plenty of practice doing it.  Even then it's likely you'll have to heli-coil.

Option #2 is to attempt and extraction.  If I were to try this I would use one of these:



Order info

They're supposedly self-centering, and look like they have half a chance of working.  I have a set here, but I've never had the need to try them.  As a mechanic I've used the spiral extractors many times.  The small sizes tend to break very easily.  Plus, having a taper, they tend to introduce a clamping force which can make it harder to remove the fastener.

If you decide to use a traditional extractor I suggest a type designed like this:



I have a set similar to those.  Instead of twisting the extractor in, you beat it in with a hammer as you turn.  These have completely replaced my spiral - type extractors.  Irwin tool company makes a set like this which you might find in a local hardware store.

Now, option #3 is to take it to a machine shop and let them have at it.  What they're going to do is drill it out, except they will have a milling machine or jig bore at their disposal along with very rigid drills.  The downside is to do this you'll have to remove part of your engine.  The upside is that they will get it out.

One word of caution:  Don't break off an extractor in your seized bolt.  They're made out of the same steel as drill bits and endmills.  They don't machine very well.   

Geep.
Interesting comments, I agree with them all and have to say I have not seen the Self- Centering type, maybe they have not made it across the pond yet
We tend to avoid extractors if machining is a viable option, the broken remenent will still be lodged just as tight as before and you are just as likely to shear the extractor as a result and that really complicates things. We have had some nasty experiences with broken extractors in the past. If, depending on size and practicality we can get the component part jigged in a suitable machine we will tool the broken part out, if not we bring in the spark errosion contractors... this a black art to me so I cant really comment, plus the contractors wont tell you anything when you do ask them questions.  Another thing to consider and I am sure you will agree with me is that extractors, when they grip the remenent internaly in the pilot hole can cause it to swell on the o/d, which in effect makes it even tighter.
To summerise I think sometimes eagerness and determination to overcome what seems like a simple problem leads the individual concerned to forget about the possible outcome and resulting rectification costs if the attempt goes pear-shaped. We have all agreed that this is a risky and a far from simple task and personaly, and knowing what I do I wouldnt attempt to do it by hand in my own garage, I would pay someone who has the  experience and equipment to do it. At least if it did go pear-shaped I would refuse to pay. 

Quote from: sledge on March 26, 2006, 12:25:57 PM
I would pay someone who has the  experience and equipment to do it. At least if it did go pear-shaped I would refuse to pay. 

Alright, I've decided to let a pro do it. But what kind of professional should I take it to? I mean what would it be under in the phone book? Any ideas?

The resident pro will pay you to take it off your hands, leaving you free to snag that other one that is by you. You can give me that things carbs while I pick yours up, so the resident pro will get its carbs squared up as well. But If I were to charge someone to do it, It would be $200 minimum and 4 week turn around time minimum. And no I wont do it unless you drop it at my house and pick it back when done. In all honesty its one of the hardest things I have done, and I have slapped a 04 fairing set on an 89, and no I didnt use any of the tools he posted ... I used drills and leftie drills after the welding nut aspect failed.
BTW mecahnics will ask for 1/2 if not more up front just to not have to deal with you not paying up ... routine stuff they will do wihtout it, but this ... nope.
Cool.
Srinath.

Quote from: seshadri_srinath on March 26, 2006, 03:38:44 PM
The resident pro will pay you to take it off your hands, leaving you free to snag that other one that is by you. You can give me that things carbs while I pick yours up, so the resident pro will get its carbs squared up as well. But If I were to charge someone to do it, It would be $200 minimum and 4 week turn around time minimum. And no I wont do it unless you drop it at my house and pick it back when done. In all honesty its one of the hardest things I have done, and I have slapped a 04 fairing set on an 89, and no I didnt use any of the tools he posted ... I used drills and leftie drills after the welding nut aspect failed.
BTW mecahnics will ask for 1/2 if not more up front just to not have to deal with you not paying up ... routine stuff they will do wihtout it, but this ... nope.
Cool.
Srinath.

Driving my bike to NC  and leaving it there over the course of a month isn't too appealing. I think I"ll shop around town first. Sorry

QuoteWe tend to avoid extractors if machining is a viable option, the broken remenent will still be lodged just as tight as before and you are just as likely to shear the extractor as a result and that really complicates things.

Yep!  I much prefer machining if it's an available alternative.  Plunge milling through tool steel screw extractors wastes lots of time.  If extraction is the only available way I like to "condition" the fastener however I can.  Heating the area around the fastner, dry ice on the fastener, lubrication, and impact are all available options.  As we know, the extractor isn't designed to break the fastener loose.

QuoteAnother thing to consider and I am sure you will agree with me is that extractors, when they grip the remenent internaly in the pilot hole can cause it to swell on the o/d, which in effect makes it even tighter.

Agreed.  That's why I dislike the spiral-type extractors.  A significant portion of the driving torque is converted into a wedging force inside the pilot hole.  It's still worth a try, but you have to know when to stop and drill it out.

Look for a local machine shop and ask them if they will do it.  Make sure to get *in writing* that they will cover the replacement cost of your head if they scrap it.  Some machine shops have a "Well, we tried." policy.  Let us know how it goes.   

Quote from: tussey on March 26, 2006, 04:16:11 PM

Quote from: seshadri_srinath on March 26, 2006, 03:38:44 PM
<snip>

Driving my bike to NC  and leaving it there over the course of a month isn't too appealing. I think I"ll shop around town first. Sorry

I wasn't suggesting you bring it here, I was suggesting you buy Blaargs bike and sell me yours. If you get his and its not running right, yank its carbs off and give it to me while I am there and I'll clean and jet it. Heck if your carbs are good, swap them with his. I wont care.
Cool.
Srinath.

Oh. Where is Blaarg's bike? Couldn't find it in the For Sale section and search didn't turn up anything either.

Call an exhaust/muffler shop first; if they can't help you they can probably recommend a good machine shop.  Keep in mind that good condition used heads regularly go for <$100 on e-bay.  If it's going to cost you more than that to get the bolt out then you might as well go ahead and replace the whole thing.

-M

Quote from: tussey on March 26, 2006, 09:28:52 PM
Oh. Where is Blaarg's bike? Couldn't find it in the For Sale section and search didn't turn up anything either.

Man - you replied to it too ... a few days ago. Here it is though.

http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=24968.0

Cool.
Srinath.

Anybody got advice on the "heat the block, cool the bolt" method?  Any success?  I've got a similar problem - pics are below.  Vise grips, EZ-out, extractor... to no avail.  The slit in the bolt/block was the previous owner, not me.

Also, is there any real harm in running with 1 bolt per flange?  The previous owner evidently did and I've been doing it for a while now with no noticeable bad effects.

That is a bad one, best thing to do with that is take it to a specialist engineering shop or engine-reconditioners and get their advice. The only real chance you stand of getting it out and saving the head is to have the broken remenant machined out and the hole helicoiled afterwards.

Sanjay,

I have the exact same bolt that snapped on me.  I center punched it, drilled a hole throught the bolt with a cobalt bit and soaked it in PB for 2 weeks before trying to extract it.   
When I turned the easy out 1/4 turn it "felt" like something was wrong.  Sure enough, that bolt is in so tight that the extractor twisted on me!!!   So now I'm searching for a bike shop that will drill it out and heli coil it for me.

Good Luck


Chris

I had a jetski i broke the bolt of in the exhaust on .  I pulled it apart took to car quest the drill and helicoiled for 45$.

thread res for berto:

Hey here is what ended up happening. My header bolt snapped off flush with the engine. I ended up paying several hundred dollars to have a motorcycle shop remove it (it was a ripoff, don't even go there with me).

Once removed I bought all new header bolts from bikebandit.com and I covered then with anti seize which is a type of copper paste. Use it liberally then wipe the excess once you're screwed in. This will prevent future seizes.

If I could do it all over again I would do it differently. I know much more now. I would take off the front tire, spray the area with lube or whatever let it saturate then drill a pilot hole and use and EZ out. I didn't know what EZ out was then but I do now.

Anyways hope that helps you.

Thanks for the follow up.

I was lucky because mine came out easily but I knew it was very possible for a bolt to have snapped and put me in this same nasty situation. It's always nice to have information on "what to do if..."

Just wanted to also recommend the fluted extractors GeeP posted about:



IMO, fluted extractors are FAR superior to the spiral extractor design; I first used a set about fifteen years ago, and I haven't used a spiral extractor since then. They won't work in ALL situations; sometimes, you simply have to resort to HEAVY artillery, but they've saved my bacon enough times to keep a set in my toolbox at all times. In fact, I hate to loan them to anyone, because as soon as I do, someone else will ask me if I can remove a broken bolt from something...

Regarding the pics i posted above, the bolts never came out.  I sold the bike to the new owner with 1 working bolt per header pipe (and told him about it).  Not sure if he ever got them removed or not, but I tried EVERYTHING short of getting it drilled out by a shop.  Sometimes it's that bad. 

Like Tussey, I always use anti-seize when I remove/replace the header bolts on the new bike.  No problems since.

Also, I second the fluted extractor recommendation over the spiral ones.  I have both and the fluted ones work much more reliably.