I think the front brake disc design is awesome.

haven't ridden one yet, but i might get a chance soon, so i can report back.

jake

The physics of motorcycle dynamics is far from simple, but a higher CG means faster lean ins, and a lower lean angle for a given radius and speed. A shorter wheelbase does help with the absolute turn rate, in theory. Mass centralization is a whole other topic.

Lots of good technical papers here:

http://pdmec4.mecc.unipd.it/~cos/DINAMOTO/indexmoto.html
http://www.mecc.unipd.it/~cos/DINAMOTO/torquewww/steeringtorque.htm

This is a motorcycle university. If I win a million dollars, I'm going to learn Italian, and move to Trento, one of my favorite towns in the world, and just study motorcycles, eat Italian food, and drink wine... well when I'm not riding in the Dolomites. Paradise?!

Unfortunately, the Buell seems to have a slow roll rate, and is very pitch and suspension setting sensitive due to the short wheelbase. It sure doesn't seem to benifit much from all it's "radical" features, all of which have been used many times over the years. The rim mounted disk doesn't work very well from the tests I've seen.

The Aprilia Tourno will eat the Buell alive in every circumstance, as will the SV1000. The Aprilias have a far better reliability record than Buells in the long term tests. And Aprilia can actually design competitive racing motorcycles (250 GP is dominated by them, and Edwards is looking pretty good on the MotoGP bike this season)

I really liked the Tuono when I first saw it but now it looks too "busy" for me. Still, much better performance for less money. Fewer repairs but more expensive maintainence . . .

Hmm, it still doesn't smack me up-side the head like the Buells do.

To quote a co-worker "Eww. It looks like something Superman would ride."
To which I responded "Hell ya."

Hello!  -  SV1000 baby!

QuoteI was really hoping for the V-Rod motor but I guess until the sales of the V-Rod slump there won't be enough spares for Buell

The V-Rod motor is far too big to put in a Buell. They would have to make a much larger frame, and then you are sort of defeating the object of a Buell.
They might do it eventually, but it will be years yet.

I would definately have a Buell, but they still have the worst gearchange since 1930. When they can sort that out, I may splash out  

My feelings are very mixed, indeed... Like all Buells past and present it looks cool at first glance but after thinking about it for 10 minutes I just go "Ugh".  They look good, I like the magnesium-brown finishes, but in person the details just look WEIRD and I can't forgive them for their choice of power.  I've yet to see an American-built vehicle of any kind, two wheels or four, that really tittilates me through and through.

QWKDTSN - (is that "quick Datsun"? - just curious), While I don't share your lack of enthusiasm for American made vehicles in general, I must agree with your assessment of the Buells in particular. MrSlush and I have a riding buddy with a Buell. Cyclone, I think. Anyway, it's a cool looking bike and a real wheelie monster but that motor! It vibrates so much at any rpm that stuff literally shakes loose and falls off on a regular basis. I tease this guy occasionally about his bike reminding me of someone putting a flat head Ford V-8 in a Dodge Viper. A curious combination indeed.

actually his bike is a '99 S3 Thunderbolt.

Is it quick datsun? Yes indeed it is  :mrgreen:

http://www.geocities.com/nionwolf/Z.html

wow, you guys really know how to run off on tangents...and a pretty bright bunch as well. Impressive indeed.

I agree with most of whats said here (except for the tech stuff...over my head )

I think the Buell has agressive styling that sets it apart and would love to have one...with a different motor and with better quality. Like many things american it is overcomplicated for its own good.

I too would LOVE a Tuono and would take one over a Buell (which I would NEVER buy) any day. Z1000 looks great at first but quickly wore off-BUT the performance is a different matter...maybe John can speak up about his?

The Buell is really short wheelbase and should handle great but everyone talks about it not doing so. Anyway...I consider it eye candy. I don't think Aprilias are necessarily more expensive to maintain (maybe, but until someone that owns one speaks to that we're all talking out our ass-no offense intended). Especially considering how OFTEN you'd have to maintain the Buell.

Anyway, I'm glad to see this take on a life of its own. Nice to hear all your opinions too. I just put it up to start this very type of discussion.

They should have pulled the TL/SV 1000 motor and put that buell around it...but then it wont be a buell it'd be a bimota...but I dont like hand built...They have to be mass produced and have millions of parts available easy. Which will totally kill SV1000 sales...then I guess it should have the now dead superhawk Honda motor.
Cool.
Srinath.

Lots of opinions on Buell, the bike and the man.  

Here's one more.

I have owned a 97 Buell S3 for about 4 years give or take. The only complaints I have had are with the paint not holding up too well on the tank (show me a bike that does and lives outside 24/7/365 in AZ) and the constant need to replace rear tires.     Aside from fluid changes, brake pads, fork seals, normal wear and tear items I have had to repair absolutely nothing on the bike (ok ok, the neutral indicator switch wire came loose once and had to plug it back in, but thats it)

Fitting a V-ROD motor into a Buell wouldn't be that big of a stretch. The motor came out of the VR-1000 to begin with. Sort of an out of the race bike into the cruiser and back to a sport bike kind of evolution.

I know this is picking nits, but the output of the XB12R is 103hp and 84 ft/lbs of torque , not a "massive 80 hp"

Just the demented ramblings of a happy Buell owner.  

Quote from: Wrencher

I know this is picking nits, but the output of the XB12R is 103hp and 84 ft/lbs of torque , not a "massive 80 hp"

I think he was referring to the XB9R I think.

I don't see how Buell (and HD for that matter) can brag about power production with any of their bikes.  Most of the Milwaukee V-twins make between 55 and 75 HP, but their ads boast about the ground pounding power.  Even the torque figures of most of their bikes are outperformed by other bikes of less than half the displacement.  Then they overcharge you for it.  I just don't see the appeal.

A guy that used to shoot in our pool league bought a Buell Lightning a few years back.  He bought it brand new and never got a scratch on it.  Then one day the rear sprocket just exploded into a million pieces as he accelerated away from the bar.  After that, the rest of the parts just kept vibrating loose.  He said it wasn't too bad.  According to him, he just had to tighten all of the bolts and nuts before each ride.  EACH RIDE!

He seemed quite happy with his decision to buy an American sport bike.  He wasn't happy when a guy on our team beat him in a drag race on his old CBR-F2.

buell owned&run by hd, does build some of the most dependable engines in the m/c industry. i know of several hd engines with upwards of 180,000 miles. and those comparing buell/hd to the italian/japanese bikes are comparing apples to oranges. the hd engine vibrated due to the design. the split rods move up and down w/ pistons together. essentially its like one huge piston. nice for torque (some can even pull cars!) but like i said you have to take care of them. warm ups properly. usually severely slows down the rate of oil leaks. jap/italian bikes can be ran without the routine. (Porper warm-ups etc.)still have to but not as long. nother point, show me any jap/italian bike maker that can hold its value like hd.
heck, even some hd models can sell for twice their value in japan. besides, used hd/buells can be had fairly reasonably, and in a lot better shape that their japanese counterparts.   if i have my way, ill get an hd, and keep the gs for commuting/short trips.

Quote from: pantablo

Quote from: Wrencher

I know this is picking nits, but the output of the XB12R is 103hp and 84 ft/lbs of torque , not a "massive 80 hp"

I think he was referring to the XB9R I think.

The Buell site lists all the specs of all the bikes. Even the XB9R is 90hp and 70 ft/lbs.

Doesn't matter much to me, just clarifying.

I just think its funny that people are bashing buell and hd for their bikes falling apart, when I can go through this message board and find multiple posts asking about possible problems, or about how to fix certain problems, on their GS.  Granted, the GS is MUCH less expensive than hd's or buells, but like yamahonkawazuki said, their resale value is also much higher (much higher).  Anything mechanical is going to have problems.  

HD has improved leaps and bounds over their previous engines.  Supposedly their engines have been improved so they can last for tens of thousands of miles without serious problems.  However, one thing you have to understand is that HD owners used to love to work on their bikes.  That was part of the appeal.  It kept them linked to their machine in a way that just riding it didn't.  Why do you think people got so attached to their Harley?  Why do you think they'd buy such an expensive bike over and over again, knowing that they'd have to work on it?  It's all part of the lifestyle.  Nowadays, most people (remember I say most) don't work on their own vehicles (or maintain them correctly).  Therefore, that lifestyle is hard to understand for most.

I like Harleys.  I always have.  I also know that they are way overpriced and less reliable than Jap or Euro bikes, but that won't stop me from buying one.  As far as torque and horsepower go; specs are one thing, riding the bike is a whole different thing.  My dad owns a 77 sportster 1000.  Supposedly its bored out to 1200, but I don't know if that's true.  Anyway, I've ridden it and you can't tell me that bike doesn't pull hard.  It'll fly right out from under you if you don't respect it.

I guess what I'm saying is:  don't playa hate, 'preciate.  Because, as was stated before, it is an apples and oranges comparison.

John L.

also, i forgot to mention, when the engine is warming up,  the three sections crank-case,cyl.,&head expand at different rates. (why proper warm-up is crucial. hd/buell, and jap./ital. bikes are built differently. for different purposes. the japanese bikes handle great, but i wouldnt want to take one of their sport-bikes on a long trip. and hd's would not be as well suited to doin' twisties as the import bikes are. my philosophy is "if it has two wheels, (and an engine) and you can keep up, welcome to ride along!"  

The XB9R is only 90 hp on the Buell site. When everyone else dynos it, it is about 76 hp / 57 ft-lbs. Maybe Buell is reporting crankshaft HP, not rear wheel? The XB9S comes out at about 92/86. Still alot of cc's for these numbers, but much better than Harley manages.

I just don't get Harleys I guess - outrageous prices, mediocre at best performance. The reliability has got a lot better than the AMF days, but the two British magazines I read both had the Buells die on them in the long term test. Not a large sample size, but not great anyway.

The GS500 is a starter bike, so there are a lot of basic maintenance questions asked here.

There are lots of Japanese sport bikes that work great as touring bikes. The VFR is obviously a great all-rounder. Nick Sanders has used an R1 on his last two round-the-world trips, in fact most of his last tour group used Japanese sport bikes of one sort or the other. That's what I would take for sure, even though I love old BMWs.

http://www.nicksanders.com/mwc2002.htm

A few Harleys and one Buell have made it through the Iron Butt over the years, but so has a 1946 Indian Chief and a Suzuki 125.

http://www.ironbutt.com/intro/ibrfacts.html

I'd just take Harley riders as motorcyclists with a strange passion, if they'd just put some goddam mufflers on them! There are way too many of them that seem to think straight pipes are great for riding through residential neighbourhoods. Just too much posing.

HD keeps it's resale value because of marketing and hype.  Telling people that don't know any better that American motorcycles are the only "real" motorcycles.  Longevity has nothing whatsoever to do with a Harley's resale value.  No one has ever paid $12,000 for a HD with 50,000 miles on it and said to themselves "that's not too bad, it has a hundred thousand more left in her".  

And as far as the GS having similar concerns of vibrations, that is your "apples & oranges" situation.  I paid $3300 brand new for my '01 GS.  If a bolt vibrates loose, I don't think much of it.  If I had a $20,000 Fat Boy and the air cleaner vibrated loose constantly (a friend of mine's does this monthly, even with red loc-tite on the bolt) I would be highly concerned to say the least.