Quote from: Wrecent_Wryder on April 11, 2006, 03:20:27 PM

Quote from: scratch on April 11, 2006, 02:57:42 PM
When you roll on the throttle on a Motoguzzi, the bike likes to roll to the right.

Well, that would be enough to disqualify a bike from my consideration...

It's not that much.

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Oh, and the Goldwing crank is parallel.

How do you get a flat 6 into a bike with the crank rotating parallel to the frame?

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Parallel with the frame, lengthwise.

Torque effect on Guzzi's and Beamers and Gold Wings and what not is pretty minimum.  It doesn't interfere with anything, but in a neutral standing you'll be able to notice.

Quote from: AlphaFire X5 on April 11, 2006, 10:37:54 AMass tires.

Where do I get these ass tires you speak of?

Quote from: phire on April 11, 2006, 06:03:16 PM

Quote from: AlphaFire X5 on April 11, 2006, 10:37:54 AMass tires.

Where do I get these ass tires you speak of?

Perhaps?

   Nice soft tail.

Gotta get me some ass tires.

I think it is the width of the wheels. People have mentioned the big bikes being harder to turn, they have fatter wheels. I think also the length of the bike has an effect because scooters turn very quickly.

Quote from: ukchickenlover on April 11, 2006, 10:40:13 PM
I think it is the width of the wheels. People have mentioned the big bikes being harder to turn, they have fatter wheels. I think also the length of the bike has an effect because scooters turn very quickly.

Exactly. Skinny ass tires.

Some of you have touched on rotating mass...that's the biggest contributor to a loss of "flickabillity".  My TL, for example, has 3" and 6" wheels with much beefier hubs and spokes, bigger brakes and, of course, bigger rubber.  This added weight to the spinning assembly is tremendous at speed and increases the gyro effect (the gyro effect is what causes the wheels' resistance to tilting).

The second largest drain is crankshaft size and configuration.  A 1000cc I4 crank is going to be bigger and heavier and have a more dramatic gyro effect than the crank in 400cc I4...but the crank in my TL1000S (996cc 90* V-Twin) is smaller and lighter than the one in a 600cc I4.

Next we have the engine's location.  Having the crank mounted above the axle line will create a lot of dead weight at speed and will make the bike easier to "fall in", but more difficult to recover.  The increased weight of the engine assembly acts as a lever against the gyros (wheels), but returning to upright you have to fight the same lever.  Mounting the crank below the axle line will make the bike require more effort to fall in, but returning to upright will be sharper.  Most manufacturers of sport bikes try to mount the engine so as that the crank is on the axle line with a propperly setup suspension so as to neutalize it's effect on leaning.

Lastly you've got COG and other rotating parts (cams, tranny assemblies, gears, etc).

Steering geometry and all that has nothing to do with how a bike leans.  My rat bike with 2.5"/3.5" wheels, lightened rotors and race rubber will flop back and forth faster than you can blink...but, with a 80" wheelbase, it doesn't turn for shaZam!.

If you want to see something crazy-flickable...find a bandit 400 with lightweight wheels, aluminum sprockets and lightened rotors.  My TL will lightweight wheels and rotors is almost as flickable.

4d

What Honda did to eliminate torque effects on the Gold Wing: they have the alternator rotor rotate against the crankshaft with twice the RPM at half(?) the weight. That compensates crankshaft inertia issues.

Made BMW and Guzzi look pretty lame when they came out with it.

[4

Quote from: AlphaFire X5 on April 11, 2006, 10:37:54 AM
It's a combination of things. Light weight. Upright bars that you can put a lot of torque on, and skinny ass tires.

light weight? 

Quote from: JetSwing on April 12, 2006, 08:01:08 AM

Quote from: AlphaFire X5 on April 11, 2006, 10:37:54 AM
It's a combination of things. Light weight. Upright bars that you can put a lot of torque on, and skinny ass tires.

light weight? 

Well, compared to a cruiser or a big Bandit or something. It's all relative.

Quote from: Wrecent_Wryder on April 12, 2006, 04:32:03 AM

Quote from: scratch on April 11, 2006, 04:12:57 PM

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How do you get a flat 6 into a bike with the crank rotating parallel to the frame?

Parallel with the frame, lengthwise.

Ok- so the Wing crank is rotating on the same plane as the Guzzi or BMW boxers, then.

Yes.

I'm so lost. So are the cranks on BMW's, Guzzi's, and Wing's set up perpendicular to the frame? And ours is parallel to the frame? Am I in the neighborhood here? Hello? I'm Dave C?

The engines in Moto Guzzis, Beamers, some Triumphs, Goldwings, Runes and all the like are longitudinally mounted...that means that the ends of the crank are pointing at the wheels.  GSXR's, CBR's, ZXR's, YZFR's  and the like all have transversely mounted engines (self explanatory).

The altinator thing on the Goldwing isn't that spectacular.  Most of the longitudinal bikes are cardan-drive and the majoraty of the transmission assembly and shaft all rotate opposite the motor.

Quote from: makenzie71 on April 12, 2006, 10:13:36 AM
The engines in Moto Guzzis, Beamers, some Triumphs, Goldwings, Runes and all the like are longitudinally mounted...that means that the ends of the crank are pointing at the wheels.  GSXR's, CBR's, ZXR's, YZFR's  and the like all have transversely mounted engines (self explanatory).

Huh? I'm lost. So the engines on a CBR and whatnot are set up so if you look down from the seat, the frame and crank (if it were visible) would create a cross or a t? But they're an inline-4, and...

Wait, so the cylinders are in line with each other, not the frame. Ok, and so that explains why the exhaust valves are oriented like that, with the 4 at the front of the bike...

Did I just talk this out? Or am I was off again? I'm self-taught when it comes to engines, AKA I don't know shaZam!.

Yes!  An inline 4 is four cylinders across in a transverse mounted engine (that is transverse mounted in relation to the frame and/or line of travel).

Quote from: scratch on April 12, 2006, 10:48:14 AM
Yes! An inline 4 is four cylinders across in a transverse mounted engine (that is transverse mounted in relation to the frame and/or line of travel).

An inline engine is just that...piston configuration bears no reference on how it's mounted.  It can be mounted longitudinally or transversely.

The Rocket III, for example: