Quote from: 3imo on June 15, 2006, 02:06:57 PM
Anyone can bend the #'s to prove their point. The NRA says the # of actual deaths pales in comparison to deaths prevented by private gun ownership .  who knows? ... Firearm accidents at home are 100% preventable, hows that for a statistic.  My father knew there was a chance us boys would try to find and play with his guns. He made sure we could not find them. 

I agree that anyone can bend statistics or use just what they want to make their point. However, I'm not trying to make any point with statistics; I'm just a sicko who likes to read and compare them for the sake of doing it! 

I didn't grow up with firearms, either. I never even touched one until I was in college, but I found that I enjoyed shooting and that I was good at it. I had a friend who was in the police academy at the time, and he brought over his firearm to show my son. My son was fascinated, and it was a safe environment for him to examine the weapon up close, hold it, and learn more about it.

I haven't been shooting in a few years... I don't think my boyfriend will take me, because I think he thinks I'll shoot better than he does! 

I'm hoping that this goading will get his testosterone moving, and then we can go shooting...I have no doubt that he's a better shot than I am, but I'm certainly not going to admit THAT to him! 

Yeah...I bet he thinks that I'll show him up!   

Here's some info on guns in the home and suicides:
http://www.ichv.org/suicideandguns.htm

The third fact on the page reads:
"FACT: Access to lethal means, especially firearms, greatly increases the likelihood that someone will commit suicide. A gun in the home is 11 times more likely to be used to attempt or commit a suicide than to be used in self-defense.
- Arthur Kellerman, Journal of Trauma, August 1998"

That's a pretty big number -- 11X as likely!!!

Again, I support the second amendment.  It's purpose is to insure that citizens have the means to take up arms against an oppressive government (and we appear to be rapidly getting there, but that's a different thread!), but I choose not to have one in my house. 

I was just thinking,

I wouldn't want to shoot someone who attempted to steal my bike....

that would be a too nice an ending for them.

I'd rather teach em a lesson with my cricket bat 

Like I said.. I wouldn't shoot em unless necessary. That's why I have one of those extending batons like police use. I used to carry it in my car, under the seat. Easier to carry than a baseball bat, but just as effective, if used properly. And 100% legal.


And trumpet guy, I know 11x is a lot. But what I'm saying is that if those guns were properly secured and/or hidden.. that could never happen. A trigger lock is $10 for a cheapy... best $10 you can spend for your gun!

http://www.beast-enterprises.com/ccw.html

We can throw stats at each other all day.   The link is for Concealed Carry Weapons (CCW).  Now these #'s are staggering.

Remember #'s can be bent to show whatever you want.

IMO THose who want to kill themselves will find a way (gun or not) Those who attempt suicide just for attention...shouldn't be dumb enough to use a gun.

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2. Anti-gunners cite "studies" they claim show that firearms kept at home are "43 times more likely" to be used to kill family members than be used for self-defense. (Other "studies" claim different ratios.) The 43:1 claim, based upon a small-scale study of Kings County (Seattle) and Shelby County (Memphis), is a fraud, because it counts as self-defense gun uses only those cases in which criminals were killed in the defender's home. Approximately 99.9% of all defensive gun uses are not fatal shootings, however -- criminals are usually frightened off, held at bay, or non-fatally wounded. Also, many defensive firearms uses occur away from home. Further, suicides were counted as "family member killings" in the "study," elevating that number more than 500%. Unfortunately, some of these "studies" are funded with taxpayer dollars, through grants from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, a division of the U.S. Dept. of Health and Human Services.
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Quote from: trumpetguy on June 15, 2006, 08:35:11 PM
"FACT: Access to lethal means, especially firearms, greatly increases the likelihood that someone will commit suicide. A gun in the home is 11 times more likely to be used to attempt or commit a suicide than to be used in self-defense.

I don't question the statistic.  It could mean that suicide is 11x more likely than a break-in or attack.  In the cases where a gun is present, it is used.  Or it could mean something else.  Which is to say it means nothing.  Like most other statistics.  Remember, if we believed statistics has an effect on our life, we wouldn't be riding motorcycles, which are 10x more likely to be involved in an accident than automobiles.

Either way, suicide attempts are more lethal when guns are involved.  Not a risk I'm electing to take with my family.

All statistics are not meaningless.  When citations are present, the reader may read the entire study and ascertain flaws in the method.  Statistics mean something when the method used to obtain them is sound.

As far as risk goes, I ride with gear and a helmet all the time.  If I had a gun, I'd keep it unloaded and locked all the time.  Would kind of spoil the "Rambo effect," I admit.

Reasonable minds may differ.

Unloaded, locked always, period.

Suicide? I'd prefer a blaze of glory personally (GS off a cliff at 100mph) into a helicopter's blades, with a rope tied around my neck and to a tree at the top of the cliff and three military guys with squad-automatic-weapons (SAWs)  pumping me full of 5.56 NATO rounds.

With C4 set to detonate just as I pass the helicopter's blades.


(Yes, I'll wear my helmet and riding jacket.)

A single bullet is just so 1990's

Quote from: CirclesCenter on June 24, 2006, 09:31:26 PM
Suicide? I'd prefer a blaze of glory personally (GS off a cliff at 100mph) into a helicopter's blades, with a rope tied around my neck and to a tree at the top of the cliff and three military guys with squad-automatic-weapons (SAWs)  pumping me full of 5.56 NATO rounds.

With C4 set to detonate just as I pass the helicopter's blades.


(Yes, I'll wear my helmet and riding jacket.)

And you would save your family a ton of money on casket costs....

Quote from: CirclesCenter on June 24, 2006, 09:31:26 PM
Unloaded, locked always, period.

Suicide? I'd prefer a blaze of glory personally (GS off a cliff at 100mph) into a helicopter's blades, with a rope tied around my neck and to a tree at the top of the cliff and three military guys with squad-automatic-weapons (SAWs)  pumping me full of 5.56 NATO rounds.

With C4 set to detonate just as I pass the helicopter's blades.


(Yes, I'll wear my helmet and riding jacket.)

A single bullet is just so 1990's

uhh...I don't think it will work. According to my calculations, the GS (@400+lbs) going 100mph will most definitely overshoot the helicopter.

If NOT.... the blast from the C-4 will force you upward over the helicopter, the rope around your neck being cut by the blades just as you reach terminal velocity, which by then you will be going too fast for the SAW (M249 Light Machine Gun) gunners to hit you.

Their 5.56 Nato rounds cutting into the cliff causing a landslide, that builds up enough of a cushion below to break your fall.
Although that landing could kill you, You would ultimatly be saved by your helmet and riding jacket. 

But could have abit of gravel rash from the flip flops and assless chaps!