scrap is up to about 7.00 a hundred

take the cat off first....

and you should clear 200-250

Yeah it's a bummer but get used to it 'cos it aint going back down anytime. Governments and the big oil companies twitter on about wars in Nigeria and instability in the middle east which do have a bearing but currently production is high in the middle east despite those concerns.

Like everything else the biggest factor affecting price is supply and demand and two new emerging giant economies, China and India are creating huge demand also the surrounding smaller countries plus the countries that used to be "Eastern European" or former "Soviet republics" are catching up very quickly and their populations can afford vehicles and travel that even ten years ago were beyond the dreams of most "ordinary" people.

The concept of the "New American Century" which embraced "securing" energy supplies is a non-starter, getting involved in the middle East has not stabilised supply, without getting into the morality and politics, Iraq is hardly a model democracy, Iran is looking very difficult and is not likely to be "secured" and what happents when the people of the fuedal kingdoms including the West's freinds in Saudi-Arabia, Kuwait and the Emirates start to yearn for the true democracy that we talk about so much, imagine the affect of Islamic revolution in Saudi and the potential to spread to the neighbors.

What's the answer, use less perhaps, maybe it's follow the Brazilian example, they don't have oil but have become not just self sufficient but export both fuel and the technology for bio fuels. Whatever the answer is i think we can count on an upward trend for many years to come unless someone can talk China into stopping its industrialisation which in turn will put up prices in Walmart in US, Tesco and Aldi elswhere. In UK we have come to accept that we were the first industrialised society and now we are the first post-industrial society, all things are now influenced globally and eventually we just gotta live with that.

I wonder if we could turn the Afghan poppy crop into bio-fuel ? ? ? ?

One last (honest) thing after that diatribe, the biggest user and waster of energy in modern countries is our homes not our vehicles. With better building regulation and standards we could do something about that at least but it won't be cheap so don't hold your breath.

Homes are also the easiest place to fix that. Since they are stable. Whether thats solar heaters on the roof or geothermal heating and cooling in the ground. Lots of options, expensive ones mostly. But they are there.

Quote from: mike_mike on July 15, 2006, 02:32:21 PM
we pay way more than that up here in canada

3.30/gallon is a steal here for gas. we haven't seen those prices in a long time.

You really cannot compare gas in other countries to gas prices in the US. For canada, you pay more, because you are helping to pay for your healthcare. We in the US, thankfully, do not have a public healthcare system.

yes we do, it call wellfare and medaicad, i use both. any one can

This is my possible solution. I'm seriously thinking of getting one of these to commute back and forth to work. I have a bike trail that runs most of the way to where I work and really only need the battery assist for the hill on the way home.

http://www.rmartinbikes.com/

Jake

Quote from: porsche4786 on July 17, 2006, 08:21:09 AM
We in the US, thankfully, do not have a public healthcare system.

Yes, because our system that is only affordable for the relatively well-off is much better.  f%$k the poor.  They don't deserve the same level of health care as anyone else.  They deserve to live in pain if they can't afford meds or surgery.  They shouldn't have been bent over like that scrubbing our floors if they didn't want back problems.  f%$king bums....

Quote from: rangerbrown on July 17, 2006, 09:45:15 AM
yes we do, it call wellfare and medaicad, i use both. any one can

okay, but it's not for everybody. in canada EVERYBODY gets free healthcare, and when you go to the doctor how long do you have to wait to get in? some of the more wealthy people in canada come down here and pay to go to the doctor because they can't wait to get in.

Right because when I call a doctor to get in. I get right in.

Wait no I don't

I get personalized service from my doctor since I'm paying for him. Not the state

No wait... I'm part of a medical assembly line

Sorry I'm having a hard time seeing the downside of it

But since it's free more people will go in for really small things that they don't need to go to the doctor for. Plus here in the US we have lots of illegals who would gladly use the system for us. When I need to go to the doctor (very rare) I get in pretty quickly.

That's simple enough to remedy with a co-pay system. 

Wow. Okay, in Canada, maybe a few people go to the doctor with things that aren't that serious because they can. But it's your health. If you are worried why shouldn't you be able to be seen by a professional? I would rather a few people get told they just have colds and to take it easy, then have someone with a serious illness out spreading it around because they can't afford to seek treatment.

And yeah... there are alternatives to high fuel prices, they just aren't easy.

I bought a condo that is close to downtown. Instead of having five bedrooms and four bathrooms and big lawn in the suburbs, for the same housing dollar I've got a smaller place located so that everything is in walking distance, plus I'm on a public transit line.  The only reason we have a vehicle is for our hobbies... camping, snowboarding, etc... and we bought a diesel Jeep Liberty that gets great mileage. In the summer when the fuel prices are highest we use the bikes for travel. But I have no real complaints about the cost of fuel. It's a limited resource that pollutes the world the more we burn it, so if high prices are what finally convince people to lessen the oil dependency that is not a bad thing.

Was helping a friend make a deal on a honda accord two weeks ago, and I saw the accord hybird.  The hybird cost 10K more then the most expensive accord they had on the lot.  I don't see why they can't see why they do not sell the hybird's at the same prices as the regualr ones.

Maybe I'm missing something but it seems stupid to buy a hybird to save on gas when you would be spending 10K+ on the car.

I do know they have the cheaper hybirds around but the accord hybird has the potental to really get people buying into hybirds.

Well the technology is really expensive on those hybrids. But as for cheaper hybrids. GM of all companies will be releasing some that wont be nearly as expensive as the Japanese systems. First will be on a Saturn Vue Green Line if I remember right. It will add a couple thousand to the price but not nearly the premium your paying with Toyota and Honda.

BTW the Honda Hybrid isn't about fuel economy. And the same goes for the new Lexus Hybrids. There actually setup to improve acceleration not improve mileage

"The Accord Hybrid not only gives you the inner satisfaction of driving a partial zero-emission vehicle, but it also lets you experience the exhilaration of driving a high-performance car. Because this Hybrid runs on a 253hp, V6 engine with Integrated Motor Assist, and coddles you with luxuries like an 8-way power adjustible driver's seat and a dual-zone hybrid automatic climate control system. Because Honda knows that being kind to Mother Nature can be quite thrilling indeed" - From the Honda website, I may have missspelled something, they will not let you copy and paste, I had to retype it. If they want better MPG then then why do they put more HP? A Hybrid CANNOT be a "high-performance" vehicle!!!


http://automobiles.honda.com/models/model_overview.asp?ModelName=Accord+Hybrid