It's time to replace one of our old clunker TVs and I'm interested in going to a flat panel for weight and space savings.  I've done some research, so I have some idea of what I'm talking about, but I'm no expert.  I know other types of TVs have better pictures and lower prices, but for now weight and space are important to me.

With a switchover to HDTV looming in the future (Dec 09?), I also figure it wouldn't be worth it to buy a TV that will be essentially worthless in 3.5 years.  From what I've seen so far, it looks like a 26" or maybe 32" HDTV LCD on sale would best fit my price range (Targeting $7-800, definitely no higher than $1k).  Am I just going to find junk at this price range?

For the immediate future the TV will be used for DVDs and DirectTV, but probably not HD DirectTV.  Maybe HD broadcast channels... idk.  In the future I hope to live somewhere where we can get cable instead of a dish... I hate that thing

Here are a few TVs I've come across with my initial thoughts.
HP Pavilion LC2600N (Sharp Aquos rebranded? looks pretty good,  am I missing anything)
Panasonic TC26LX50 (outdated? Is panasonic any good at TVs)
Polaroid FLM-2632 (cheap rebrand?)

One problem I'm having is that Cnet has not reviewed many of the TVs that I come across, so it's hard for me to get a feel for them.  Around here, I have Ultimate Electronics, Circuit City, Best Buy, Walmart, Target, and Costco to go shop at.  I haven't mentioned any TVs from the last three because I figure they're sub par.  But maybe there are some hidden gems? 

Let me know what you think of the sets I listed and by all means recommend some others.  Are there any features these are missing, or that I should be looking for?

Are there any words of wisdom for or against buying a factory refurbished set?  Not what I really want to do, but I have considered it due to my low price range.  Also if anyone knows of a trustworthy place to get a good TV cheap, post it or PM me. 

What types of accessories will I need to buy to support this TV?  Cables, better DVD player....?

A lot of questions I know, but I like to be thorough and I don't know a whole lot about this stuff... yet

Thanks

We bought a polaroid FLM-3232 and it works great.

John

Stay away from HP.. my $.02

Panasonic does pretty damn good in the TV business, I've only had a problem with 2 of their sets that I ever sold.. and I probably sold close to 30 or 40.

Quite honestly though.. for roughly $500 - $600 more, you could be looking at a 42 to 46 inch DLP or LCD-Projection TV. Now, if your space won't allow it, your space won't allow it. Just something to consider.

As for reviews, try ecoustics.com... It's like consumer reports, but free. They do everything from electronics to appliances to cars.

The panasonic's not bad.. I own a 23" JVC LCD that I never would have bought if I couldn't have picked it up for $400 (hooray employee discount! ).. but it's actually a lot nicer than I would have expected.

The best brands in LCD televisions are (in order)

Sharp
Toshiba
JVC
Panasonic
Polaroid
Sony

Sony's on the bottom because I absolutely despise Sony, and will never buy, nor recommend one of their products ever again.

As for accessories, that all depends on what you have now. If you buy an HDTV, you'll want a DVD player that's progressive scan (don't accept knockoffs like "high scan" or any of that crap), and a set of component video cables (RGB, versus the standard RWY).

Aside from the DVD player, you'll want a nice, shielded co-ax cable for your standard cable. Don't buy the top of the line one, don't buy the cheap one, buy the mid grade. The mid grade and top-o-the-line are almost identical.. but one costs roughly 1/2 as much. You'll also need audio cables for the DVD player, the standard red and white, or if the TV accepts it, you can use Optical (few TVs have that anymore, there's no point).... Or, if you're going to use a surround sound receiver, you can use optical, or my personal preference, digital coax.

Finally, the MOST IMPORTANT PART OF ANY HOME THEATER SYSTEM. IF YOU READ NOTHING ELSE I TYPE, PLEASE READ THIS!!!!!!!!!!

A surge protector/line conditioner. DO NOT ACCEPT A CHEAP, $10 WAL MART BRAND POWER STRIP AS A TRUE SURGE PROTECTOR. You don't have to buy the $300 monster cable strip. Quite honestly, I WOULD recommend something similar. If you buy at a place like best buy or circuit city, tell em you want it, but that you won't pay more than $200 for it. Believe me.. those surge protectors cost the company less than $100. But buy something decent. You should probably spend close to $100 on a true line conditioner. A nice line conditioner will have built in filter banks, so you run your coax from the wall to your LC, from the LC to your TV, and the LC actually cleans up the picture, making it look better. That way, your TV is plugged into the LC, and your cable is too, protecting it from any sort of power surge. Aside from a lightning bolt coming directly through your window and hitting the screen. Most nice LCs will come with a lifetime warranty from the manufacturer. Mine has a $250,000 guarantee. So if I get my TV fried, they'll replace it, and anything else that was plugged into it, up to $250K.  Also, most nice LCs will have a built in capacitor. That way, they deliver a constant flow of power to your TV, and level out the peaks and valleys in the current. (AC = Alternating Current) the alternations shorten the life of your electronics.


Ok.. I think that's everything.. any other questions, feel free to PM me..

And just for anyone who's wondering, no, I'm not talking out my ass, I sold A/V equipment for a living.

i agree with you niceguysfinishlast.. but here is the deal.. i work for best buy.. and i hate it, partly because they push monster so much (well duh its got high margin for them).

However i disagree with you on a few things.

One I would put teh Sony XBR Wega 32 over the Sharp screen, one look on an HDTV signal would clear that up. I also rate Samsung over JVC.

THis is how i rate teh LCD manufacturers as per what we carry in best buy

SONY
Samsung
Sharp
Panasonic
Toshiba
Philips
Westinghouse (rebranded by someone else)
LG
MAGNAVOX

We dont carry JVC lcd's.

Now for the part about dvd's.. buy some decent component cables, or get a tv with atleast 2 HDMI inputs, and run the dvd on a HD Upconvert DVD player. its not much better than the progressive scan, but it works. Progressive scan is so much better than the regular dvd feed, so make sure you run it on component and progressive scan mode (change it in teh options - read teh manual).

As for teh surge, on the LCD"s its not that big a deal that you got to buy a 200 or a 500 dollar surge protector. The sales guy in BB will push for it, i rarely ever do. BUt then i just started, cause seriously monster stuff is OVER RATED!

If you want surge protection and some good backup get a UPS with 800VA atleast. THe problem of surge protection is more of a concern on DLP's and Plasma's. LCD"s are more reliant towards it, and yes there is a cooling fan in teh back to cool teh display (many models) but its not like the DLP thing where if you loose power or you get a surge teh DLP chip could be in trouble.

I find LCD"s are a bit more relilant.

With cables, dont have to get monster cables. Anytihng that is decently shielded would work fine. Monster is over priced and really not that much better than what best buy carries (Acoustic Research brand) which i still feel is over priced. The RF interference that people are talking about is rarely a problem these days, but as long as you got sheilding you are fine. But i would still get some decent cables, there are plenty of good cables out on the internet which you can get and a lot cheaper than monster. The Line Conditioner portion is useless, yes it does condition your incoming signal but in reality the only benefit is to make sure you dont get a surge thru the system. Infact i have noticed in teh past (worked for stargate) that line conditioners actually sometimes decrease signal strength.

As for HDTV signals, anything over 26 inches with the built in ATSC tuner should be able to play over the air HDTV signals, if you dont want to upgrade to direct tv HD. To do that it would cost you about 99 for the upgrade + install fees and what not (realistically looking at about 200) but it is worth it. Plus when you watch normal tv SDTV on a HDTV it will look fuzzy, that's normal..

oh yeah.. the WestingHouse 32" is on sale at Best Buy (not sure if its a national sale) for 849.99 right now. Sales run sunday thru saturday.

Its a good deal, tag on the 4 yr PSP.. the issue with the LCD"s has been blown pixels we had to send one of our samsung and sony units back to get it fixed (display had blown pixels)..

so just for that its worth getting it..

Yeah the Pixel issue is ghey.

Make sure you get a "Zero dead pixel" return policy.

Other than that brightness is HUGE for me, and color accuracy. And don't go by the display pictures they run the whole time, they're specifically used to make all the TV's look better.

Check viewing angles. Especially Above and below. Trust me definately important.

Also fast action is very difficult for some LCD's This is response time, listed in milliseconds. You want less than 16. Otherwise Arnold will be all ghosty.

This is just basic itsh PM me and I'll give you the full rundown.

I'm tired and lazy right now, just PM me and I'll go over the whole deal with you. (Don't listen to sales morons, they're so damn dumb.)
<--- Techno nerd.

Quote from: CirclesCenter on July 18, 2006, 03:11:00 AM
(Don't listen to sales morons, they're so damn dumb.)
<--- Techno nerd.

Uhh.... 



Ok, for the most part, you're right... But I'm different.. I swear...

I can accept that.

One guy in every store (ok maybe one, if you're lucky.) actually gives a flapping shaZam!.

Like me at Lowes.....

Oh wait nm, I hate them all.

Quote from: manofthefield on July 17, 2006, 02:02:10 PMWith a switchover to HDTV looming in the future (Dec 09?), I also figure it wouldn't be worth it to buy a TV that will be essentially worthless in 3.5 years. 

This is not true.  In theory all of the broadcast TV stations will be required to broadcast in digital/HD.  This has NOTHING to do with what you'll get through cable or satellite.  In fact, satellite already broadcasts in digital, the box in your entertainment center is for converting it to analog for regular TVs.  Satellite and cable service will remain the same, though undoubtedly they'll continue to offer more and more HD content.  So go for that HDTV, but don't worry about old TVs becoming useless! 

Quote from: NiceGuysFinishLast on July 17, 2006, 06:01:52 PM
...Also, most nice LCs will have a built in capacitor. That way, they deliver a constant flow of power to your TV, and level out the peaks and valleys in the current. (AC = Alternating Current) the alternations shorten the life of your electronics.

Please, please tell me you didn't use this line on customers.  AC does stand for alternating current, but if you think those "alternations" are detrimental then you need to go to EE school.  The "alternating" part of AC refers to the back and forth flow of the electrons - enabling efficient step up and step down of voltages for transmission and allowing the use of capacitors and inductors in electronic devices - like TVs.  What you've implied is that the very nature of AC is somehow dangerous to your TV, which of course is not true.  Try converting that AC to DC (direct curent with no "alternations") and see how well your TV runs on that    I expect that what you mean to be explaining is something that smooths out the voltage blips in the current - this may in fact be beneficial but it's got nothing to do with "alternations".

Sorry, it's a pet peeve of mine when scary sounding psuedo science (or just incorrect science) is used in the sales business. 

jeff

No, not like that.. BUT.. you can't tell me that any AC line in a home is delivering a steady current. There are peaks and valleys. It's just the way power is delivered. Kinda like there are peaks and valleys in the charging capability of the GS, depending on RPMs. Obviously, the spikes aren't AS dramatic. But they're still there. And still detrimental to the electronics.

Quote from: TheGoodGuy on July 18, 2006, 02:00:54 AM
oh yeah.. the WestingHouse 32" is on sale at Best Buy (not sure if its a national sale) for 849.99 right now. Sales run sunday thru saturday.

This is the one.  Get this one at this price.  This seems to be the best bang-for-the-buck and it reviews well.  Vizio and Syntax are also good in the budget category and Walmart does have some good deals.  Polaroid is o.k. but lacking in terms of contrast and refresh rate in comparison.  No QAM tuner and no adjustable backlight either.  QAM tuner will allow you to pull unencrypted HD broadcasts off your standard cable/dish for free.  Also bear in mind that Directv and the like are digital and digital looks much better on HDTV's than analog cable.  And, finally, 32" is about as small as you should go for a main TV--especially when SD 4:3 viewing is the norm.  A 32" 16:9 shrinks down to a 26" in 4:3 aspect; a 26" 16:9 shrinks down to a 21" 4:3.        

Hmmm... I hadn't considered westinghouse before, but that is a pretty good price.  I'll have to do some research on them.

The more I look the more I like the HP LC2600N.  I'm 99% sure it's a rebranded Sharp which seem to be near the top of the quality list.  Seems to have every type of connection you could want too.  Not sure I like the side mounted speakers, but they're detachable.  It seems that it came out last summer and is no longer in production, so i could get it for 750 no problem

I think I am probably going to go with the Westinghouse 32w6.  Now I just need to wait for it to go on sale again.  Manjul, you know when that will be?   Probably a good thing for me to wait anyway, so I can save up some more pennies


What do you think about this Surge suppressor?  (Monster HT800, ~$45 online, 70 or 80 @ BB)

Does the  Clean Power™ Stage 1 v2.0   do what it says?  Does it more or less do the same thing as a power conditioner?

I'm being a little cheap here, not going for a $200 line conditioner or UPS, but I figure I'm only protecting maybe $1000 of equipment, not a $2000 Plasma + $2000 worth of audio equipment.  In a few years when I'm not just getting on my feet I can get something that costs $200+

On the other hand, how could I be more cheap?  I've never liked paying a premium for a brand name when they all do essentially the same thing (ie. buying a Sony electrogizmo when I could get a RCA, Samsung, Panasonic, Westinghouse, whatever 30% cheaper).  I assume that Monster is like Sony in this respect.  But this is about all they had at this level when I was looking around at Best Buy the other day.  Anything comparable from Tripp-lite, APC, etc?

Quote from: Jeff P on July 18, 2006, 12:50:35 PM

Quote from: manofthefield on July 17, 2006, 02:02:10 PMWith a switchover to HDTV looming in the future (Dec 09?), I also figure it wouldn't be worth it to buy a TV that will be essentially worthless in 3.5 years. 

This is not true.  In theory all of the broadcast TV stations will be required to broadcast in digital/HD.  This has NOTHING to do with what you'll get through cable or satellite.  In fact, satellite already broadcasts in digital, the box in your entertainment center is for converting it to analog for regular TVs.  Satellite and cable service will remain the same, though undoubtedly they'll continue to offer more and more HD content.  So go for that HDTV, but don't worry about old TVs becoming useless! 

Quote from: NiceGuysFinishLast on July 17, 2006, 06:01:52 PM
...Also, most nice LCs will have a built in capacitor. That way, they deliver a constant flow of power to your TV, and level out the peaks and valleys in the current. (AC = Alternating Current) the alternations shorten the life of your electronics.

Please, please tell me you didn't use this line on customers.  AC does stand for alternating current, but if you think those "alternations" are detrimental then you need to go to EE school.  The "alternating" part of AC refers to the back and forth flow of the electrons - enabling efficient step up and step down of voltages for transmission and allowing the use of capacitors and inductors in electronic devices - like TVs.  What you've implied is that the very nature of AC is somehow dangerous to your TV, which of course is not true.  Try converting that AC to DC (direct curent with no "alternations") and see how well your TV runs on that    I expect that what you mean to be explaining is something that smooths out the voltage blips in the current - this may in fact be beneficial but it's got nothing to do with "alternations".

Sorry, it's a pet peeve of mine when scary sounding psuedo science (or just incorrect science) is used in the sales business. 

jeff

Not to mention that it is not just a capacitor in a votage conditioner Pure capacitance would throw your line current out of phase and then nothing would work. NGFL please look up ELI the ICE man before telling someone how electronics work.

You want to buy a TV from someone that will stand behind their product. The technology is new enough that an accurate picture of MTBF for components has not been clearly developed. New televions are one of the only items both consumer reports and Clark Howard recommend buying the extended warranty for. The local repair shop techs I have spoken to around here highly recommend the sharp aquos line, avoid RCA at all costs is what I am told I bought one less than a year old on EBAY and the guy jacked me and lied in his ad. When I had it looked at in a repair shop you already could not get the parts to reapair it. I did get my money back but it was a fight.

I remember ELI the ICE man from my circuits class   (I just don't remember what he means exactly, I'm an M.E.)   I do follow all of the other electrical jargon on this page, I just don't know exactly what specs I need to protect my stuff.  "We'll replace your stuff up to $xx,000" is easy enough to follow though.

The Westinghouse 32w6 is on sale at BB again this week, so I will probably make a purchase soon.  So is the BB extended warranty worth it?  $130 for 4 years (3 years after the mfg 1 year warranty).  So far it sounds like you guys are in favor of it.  Playing devil's advocate though, doesn't most stuff go wrong in the first month or two anyway?  Shouldn't all of the bugs have presented themselves within the 1st year?

ELI the ICE man.....damn, I haven't thought of that mnemonic in a while. 

ELI: The phase of the AC voltage (or (E)lectromotive force) across an inductor (L) leads the phase of the current (I) through an inductor (Leading means that it peaks sooner).   

ICE: The phase of the AC current (I) through a capacitor (C) leads the phase of the voltage (Electromotive force) across the capacitor. 

I was into the whole CB radio thing years ago, decided I wanted to know how linear amplifiers worked and build my own. Phase is easy in series circuits a 60Hz, at 28MHz the numbers start gettin kinda big and you start wondering if that decimal point is in the right place.