Haven't logged in for a while. Just wanted to let everyone know that the 2007 sv650 (naked and faired) will have available ABS. I've been seriously thinking about getting a sv650s this winter, now I'm convinced.

bleh...I'm glad it's not a standard issue thing.  ABS sucks.

^Agreed.

Why does ABS suck? I've only heard good things about it.

-James

The big Bandit is back with another 50 cc, water cooling, and ABS.

2007 Bandit 1250 ABS MSRP: $8,799.00

Thought it might be EU only, but it was just added to US Suzuki site:

http://www.suzukicycles.com/Products/GSF1250SAK7/Default.aspx

Quote from: gsJack on September 27, 2006, 03:33:32 PM
The big Bandit is back with another 50 cc, water cooling, and ABS.

2007 Bandit 1250 ABS MSRP: $8,799.00

Thought it might be EU only, but it was just added to US Suzuki site:

http://www.suzukicycles.com/Products/GSF1250SAK7/Default.aspx

But we don't get the naked version, unfortunately. I bet it'd make a killer sport touring mount though!

Quote from: arcsecond on September 27, 2006, 03:22:20 PM
Why does ABS suck? I've only heard good things about it.

People think they can brake in an emergency on any surface and traction situation better than a purpose-built electronically controlled braking system.  While it's true that a super-expert rider can outbrake ABS on a known road surface, it's likely that you are not a super-expert rider, and it's also likely you will not know the exact traction characteristics of the surface you are emergency-braking on.

Or, people have had a problem with a primordial dark-ages ABS system from 1986 and fail to realize that 20 years of technology has made ABS the life saver that it is.

Or, people think that riding a motorcycle should be as dangerous as possible, and that any device used to increase our safety makes us pansies.

Personally, I think ABS rocks, and despite how having all those extra hoses makes bleeding your brakes take four times longer, I wish I had it.  I've never needed it so far, but on the day that I need it and don't have it I'll be pretty disappointed.

So, don't let the luddies confuse you.  If I had the option on my bike I'd opt for it.

...while some of us believe it's a complicated system that virtually eliminates the physical connection between the driver/rider and the most important part of the vehicle.  In the performance world it's about as beneficial as fly-by-wire.  In the real world it belongs on minivans driven by soccermoms and commercial vehicles driven by idiots.

Quote from: Chuck on September 27, 2006, 03:40:38 PM

Quote from: arcsecond on September 27, 2006, 03:22:20 PM
Why does ABS suck? I've only heard good things about it.

People think they can brake in an emergency on any surface and traction situation better than a purpose-built electronically controlled braking system.  While it's true that a super-expert rider can outbrake ABS on a known road surface, it's likely that you are not a super-expert rider, and it's also likely you will not know the exact traction characteristics of the surface you are emergency-braking on.

Or, people have had a problem with a primordial dark-ages ABS system from 1986 and fail to realize that 20 years of technology has made ABS the life saver that it is.

Or, people think that riding a motorcycle should be as dangerous as possible, and that any device used to increase our safety makes us pansies.

Personally, I think ABS rocks, and despite how having all those extra hoses makes bleeding your brakes take four times longer, I wish I had it.  I've never needed it so far, but on the day that I need it and don't have it I'll be pretty disappointed.

So, don't let the luddies confuse you.  If I had the option on my bike I'd opt for it.

Well said,  I have only heard good things of abs.  Coming back from alaska we rode with this guy for a day and he had abs on his bike and I asked him about it, he said he only "needed" it once, but he is sure glad he had it or else he would have gone down.  In town riding with intersections with cars and gravel here and there with road conditions not always being the same, abs looks to be a good feature.

Quote from: makenzie71 on September 27, 2006, 03:57:32 PM
...while some of us believe it's a complicated system that virtually eliminates the physical connection between the driver/rider and the most important part of the vehicle.  In the performance world it's about as beneficial as fly-by-wire.  In the real world it belongs on minivans driven by soccermoms and commercial vehicles driven by idiots.

ABS has nothing at all to do with fly-by-wire.  It certainly is complicated, and it sounds like you don't know how it works.  That's no reason to hate on it.  ABS doesn't do jack unless it senses that your wheel is stopping faster than it ever could conceivably stop on dry pavement.  Until that happens, you are linked to the ground by hydraulic fluid just like you always were.  Where are you "in the performance world" anyway?  I'm in the real world.  ABS is not for racing.  I drive on the street, with water and sand and oil.  Have you driven a car with ABS in the past 5-10 years?

I'd like you to point out where I said ABS and fly-by-wire had anything to do with one another asside being similarly useful.

I'm fully aware of how ABS works, I have had numerous cars equiped with it, and when and where it's beneficial.  I've yet to encounter a situation where the benefit of ABS trumped the presence of common sense.

Quote from: makenzie71 on September 27, 2006, 04:21:31 PM
I'd like you to point out where I said ABS and fly-by-wire had anything to do with one another asside being similarly useful.

You said it "eliminates the physical connection between the driver/rider and the most important part of the vehicle."  That's about the definition of fly-by-wire.  You made the relation by juxtaposition.  I know what you meant.  You can't weasel out of your point by saying "well that's not exactly what I said."

Quote from: makenzie71 on September 27, 2006, 04:21:31 PM
I'm fully aware of how ABS works, I have had numerous cars equiped with it, and when and where it's beneficial.  I've yet to encounter a situation where the benefit of ABS trumped the presence of common sense.

I've yet to encounter a situation where the benefit of my helmet has been made apparent.  That does not mean it does not have benefit.  I've used my common sense to keep my noggin off the road, but I know that helmets and ABS have helped thousands of other people when the chips were down.

You might think that the cost of ABS outweighs its benefit, and that's fine.  That's the case for me.  I would have to buy a whole new bike to get ABS, and that's about as far out from the cost/benefit line as you can get.  But if you have ABS you are safer than without it.  No sh!t.  If you make a claim like "ABS sucks" you better have some scientific facts other than "I never needed it," because you're on the wrong side of decades of research and engineering.

ABS is a great thing on cars.  ABS is a nice thing on SPORTBIKES!  It is not essential.

I don't know much since I cheated in all my physics classes to pass but here's what I remember.

F=ma  Now the force we're talking about is the braking force, the m=mass=our bike mass, and a=acceleration.  So the larger the vehicle, the more force it takes to make it stop at a certain speed m=f/a.  The faster the vehicle is travelling, the more force it takes to make it stop with a certain mass.   Now would a bike benefit from ABS?  Yes it will.  However, we riders that regularly practice high and low speed quick stops implement our own ABS.  Our braking inputs are much more sensitive than a cars so we have to develope them properly.  What does that mean, if you didn't have ABS, you could learn how much force it would take to stop your car without yeilding a skid.  Although we travell at high speeds, our bikes are so light that it doesn't take much to get them to stop.  ABS, while it would help, would not be worth the extra money initially and down the road with maintnance. 

PS  Don't forget to leave yourself an out.  Do that, practice high and low speed quick stops, and you'll be good to go.  My opinion.  I am not a physisist by any stretch of my imagination so please set me straight if I'm worng.  I could see this being used on heavier cruisers and tourers, but not sportbikes.

v4

..... um
no more stoppies.....

QuoteYou said it "eliminates the physical connection between the driver/rider and the most important part of the vehicle."  That's about the definition of fly-by-wire.  You made the relation by juxtaposition.  I know what you meant.  You can't weasel out of your point by saying "well that's not exactly what I said."

"Exactly" what I said?  I didn't say they were the same nor had anything to do with one another other than being similarly useful.  Just to remind you...since you have a problem reading:

I said:

Quote...it's about as beneficial as fly-by-wire.

Now, lets try replacing "fly-by-wire" with any other useless noun...like "a lifetime subscription to Extreme Fidgeting".  Let's see how that looks:

Quote...it's about as beneficial as a lifetime subscription to "Extreme Fidgeting."

According to you, saying such a thing would announce that anti-lock brakes and the obscure publication, "extreme fidgeting", share a firm connection...but in the real world we just call that a simile.  Since you're unfamiliar with this concept:

~a figure of speech that expresses a resemblance between things of different kinds (usually formed with `like' or `as')
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Here we understand that the two nouns in a simile are not the same thing, and that they are not actually in any way related.  Such as saying "that man's as fat as a cow" or "chuck's being as big a pain in the ass as AJ."

So, no, it's not exactly what I said...because it's, simply put, not what I said.

QuoteThat does not mean it does not have benefit.

I specifically stated it has a benefit.

QuoteYou might think that the cost of ABS outweighs its benefit, and that's fine.

I'm not sure who here spoke of cost, but ABS is fairly inexpensively produced.  I avoid it because of it's complexity, weight, and sacrifice of braking performance...and, when it comes down to it, ABS has no idea whether what's going on is intentional or not.  It's the very reason ASC and ABS are disconnected anytime I'm on the track...no matter what I'm in or on.

I own both an ABS and non-ABS bike.  On the BMW I actuated it once in the rain on a hidden manhole lid while stopping. ABS kept the front wheel from locking up, and may have saved me from going down.  On the GS I locked up the rear wheel once during an emergency stop, had to stay on the brake and fight to stay up to avoid a high-side. ABS would have helped in that situation also.

In brief, I think that ABS is a great system on the street and especially in the rain.  Since my riding is 100% street (no off road or track) it fits my riding style and skills.  Sure it's more expensive, but so is going down.  Been there, done that, don't ever want to go back.

Quote from: werase643 on September 27, 2006, 05:20:19 PM
..... um
no more stoppies.....

Actually, easier stopies.

ABS would be great if you can turn it off for twisties.

I think that it may be better to have on a bike than in a car. In a car, when you lock up the wheels, it's easy to regain controll. On a bike the rear wheel isn't so bad if it locks up for a split second, but the front wheel  I've locked it up a couple of times without going down but it's scarey and once I did go down. Granted, I was hungover and if I wasn't I may have been able to save myself, but that's a whole other discussion  Of course it would be nice if you could turn it on and off as you desire.

Riding on ideal roads/track, yes it's most likely a hindrance, but as one who rides year 'round and has hit patches of ice, sand, gravel, oil, splattered raccon, etc. It could be nice at times. It would really be fun to try it out in the snow 

But aside from the whole ABS argument, It's too bad they don't list the power for the new bandit. It would be interesting to see how much it goes up with the extra 50cc and the liquid cooling. I wonder if they're trying to get up there with the FZ1? they certanly are with the price
have fun