You know upon further consideration I'm going to say that yeah, Pablo would probably kill me if this is his consistent cornering.

But I'd be damned if he'd walk away with it. (Until that CBR went ARARRARARARARARARARR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BRARARARAARARARRARARAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Down the back straight, as if he needed that extra edge on a track noob like me.)

have him sign up for a superbike school on a loaned bike, that should show him which bike he needs to get, he/she likely has an itch for speed and doesn't quite understand what he/she is getting into,

I take dings on my license on my slow ass GS.  When I rode around on a GSXR750 and twisted the throttle, I felt like I needed to be behind bars (with the laws around here).

With a 600 SS I would probably be shot on sight for the shaZam! I'd do....

Quote from: CirclesCenter on October 17, 2006, 11:15:43 PM


You know upon further consideration I'm going to say that yeah, Pablo would probably kill me if this is his consistent cornering.

http://media.putfile.com/powerpantablo_small
same turn in reverse. in particular look at my pass at 6:45. camera bike is an R1.

that IS my consistent cornering, regardless of speed, although that pic shows me at about 105mph...mmmm....same as yesterday....

GL with your friend, most people that have made up their mind already, won't be swayed.  BTW is he looking at new 06 / 07 1k's or older ones?  I'm just curious.

Best thing you can do make sure he takes an MSF course ( maybe he will listen to the instructors if they tell him he should get a smaller bike ), has the proper gear and wears them.  ( I see people riding bikes with Arai's, shoie's, AGV's on the passanger seat instead of on their head )  Guess they don't want to scratch it or something.

Are there any dealers in your area that allow test rides?  After he gets his license take him there and let him ride a few bikes. 

Quote from: pantablo on October 17, 2006, 10:37:46 PM
my biggest question is this: what point of reference is he using to say the 500 isnt powerful enough? he's never ridden so how can he possibly know how much is too much?

Honestly, I don't know where he get this idea.  My best guess is that when he goes to most motorcycle manufacturer's website, the 250s and 500s (if they offer them) are usually coined as "beginner's bike", especially in the sportbike department.  So he may think getting a "beginner's bike" is just waste of money.  I don't know, it's just my guess.

That's why I hope he'll get a better idea of the capabilities of motorcycles after taking MSF.  I know the MSF bikes are mostly 125s and 250s, but at least he'll get a reference point of what a 125 or 250 can do.

Quote from: blue05twin on October 18, 2006, 09:38:23 AM
Are there any dealers in your area that allow test rides?  After he gets his license take him there and let him ride a few bikes. 

I don't know about test rides in this area, but I'll try to find out.  It'll be great to be able to test ride if I'm going to get a newer bike later when I'm ready. 

Quote from: pantablo on October 18, 2006, 01:07:02 AM

Quote from: CirclesCenter on October 17, 2006, 11:15:43 PM


You know upon further consideration I'm going to say that yeah, Pablo would probably kill me if this is his consistent cornering.

http://media.putfile.com/powerpantablo_small
same turn in reverse. in particular look at my pass at 6:45. camera bike is an R1.

that IS my consistent cornering, regardless of speed, although that pic shows me at about 105mph...mmmm....same as yesterday....

thats cool can't keep up to you

he was keeping up...he'd have been doing better if he'd been working his brakes and gas a little better.

Pablo how long's this guy been tracking the R1?  There was spot or two he was actually coasting along...

Liter bike, definetly ... 
Any thing like a Virago 1100, shadow 1100 its all good. I recomend those a lot ...  ...
750 CC to over 1 liter minimum ...
Cool.
Srinath.

Take him to the dealer and talk with the sales rep. The interesting thing is, they are often pretty savvy. The guys I talked to said "start small" and "you can always move up next season" The brilliant thing is that they are thinking of two sales. Every shop I went into said the same thing. Who knows.

Bob

p.s. If I started on a liter bike, I'd be dead today

i didn't read all this but it can be hard to convince anyone to do something if they have already decided that they want to do one thing.  I tried to get my friend to not get a daytona 675 as his first bike but the normal replies of i don't want to have to get another bike later when i out grow it or why by two bikes when i can just be careful on this bigger better bike.  Just show him what can happen, explain that it is hard enough to watch for others making mistakes and that it would be better for him to learn on a bike that won't rape him the first time he panics and grabs a lot of brake or a lot of gas.  in the end if none of that works be supportive and kick him somewhere that hurts real bad if they start doing something retarded.  Above all if he does get the wrong beginner bike go gear shopping and tell him what he needs.  I did that with my friend and he listened, cause he will go down at some point no matter what bike he gets and having that right protection is a good thing.  If he says, but it will be hot and uncompfy then gently remind him that the rash he will have if he doesn't were it will be a lot more uncompfy than wearing all out winter gear on a 110 degree summer day.  and MSF course - take it and offer to do it with him if you have the money, that has worked for me many times and i have taken the course 5 times now.  good luck man

Quote from: makenzie71 on October 18, 2006, 12:52:39 PM
Pablo how long's this guy been tracking the R1? There was spot or two he was actually coasting along...

he's done quite a few trackdays but it was his first time at this track, only my 3rd in the reverse configuration here, but I'd been to this track at least an additional 6+ times. I had the advantage of knowledge, he of horespower. He kicks my ass at California Speedway when we go though (next up-Nov 25th).

Even if we had equal knowledge of the track a liter doesnt really have a big advantage unless there are one or more long straights where the HP differential becomes an issue. I can hold lots of corner speed-look again at the video and see the gap between us open up as I exit the corners. Its because I'm not braking as much as him. Liters are Point-and-shoot where the 600's are more about corner speed. This track has enough tighter sections that I can make up distance lost on the front straight. Not so at Cal Speedway where there are 2 long straights separated by only a few tighter turns. Streets of willow is another tight track where the liters dont have any advantage.

Quote from: pantablo on October 18, 2006, 01:07:02 AM

Quote from: CirclesCenter on October 17, 2006, 11:15:43 PM


You know upon further consideration I'm going to say that yeah, Pablo would probably kill me if this is his consistent cornering.

http://media.putfile.com/powerpantablo_small
same turn in reverse. in particular look at my pass at 6:45. camera bike is an R1.

that IS my consistent cornering, regardless of speed, although that pic shows me at about 105mph...mmmm....same as yesterday....

2 things:

1) Did you stick your leg out at him as he passed at about 1:35? Looks like you were trying to trip him. Rascal.

2) His speedo read 0, but it looks like he's going at least 20 mph.

1) haha, I think thats just a sunlight reflection off his red bodywork...dont think I wouldnt though...mwuahahaha
2) he doesnt want to know his speed so he disconnects his speedohealer which zero's out his speedo without disabling the rest of the instrument panel. I prefer to see mine...

Quote from: pantablo on October 18, 2006, 04:48:44 PM
Even if we had equal knowledge of the track a liter doesnt really have a big advantage unless there are one or more long straights where the HP differential becomes an issue. I can hold lots of corner speed-look again at the video and see the gap between us open up as I exit the corners. Its because I'm not braking as much as him. Liters are Point-and-shoot where the 600's are more about corner speed. This track has enough tighter sections that I can make up distance lost on the front straight. Not so at Cal Speedway where there are 2 long straights separated by only a few tighter turns. Streets of willow is another tight track where the liters dont have any advantage.

Nah if he had good knowledge of the track he could have been right on top of you the whole way...the only R1 that was a real dog were the Gen 1 models but they can be tossed around, too.  Also remember that liters aren't all the same...I've seen SP2's walk 600's all day (high class riders on all).  Seen a few TLR riders do it, too, but that's a bit harder to find (it's hard to find the propper combination of TLR + rider who can handle the pig).

But yeah I wasn't really trying to compare the bikes...he just looked really inexperienced or unfamiliar.  He spent a lot of time not even carrying the bike up to the curves...just cut the throttle and coasted.  First time plotting the track explains it, though...eveyrone looks like a noob if they don't know where they're going.

Quote from: makenzie71 on October 18, 2006, 06:46:30 PM
Nah if he had good knowledge of the track he could have been right on top of you the whole way...

I agree with you...mostly. On a tight track where the liters dont get a chance to open up the 600 can, with some serious work. keep pace well. Dont get me wrong-I break a serious sweat keeping up with the liter bikes...but its worth it.

Oh I wasn't saying the 600's were outclassed...on a tachnical course I'd rather be on a 600 or a big twin as opposed to anything else...mostly the twin for the slight power edge.  I've ridden a few ZX6RR's and CBR600RR's, as well as an old CBR1000 and an '03 R1 and I got tired of having to wrestle the bike in comparison to the 600's.  It takes a rider in amazing physical condition to maintane pace with a good rider on a 600 if the straights aren't favorable.  This is one of the reasons I became so fond of the twins.


twin + full exhaust + no jug/block gasket + .75mm headgasket + TLR compression + TLR head + remap + mags all that other go fast stuff = here I go again with the twin bullshit 

next time he says he wants a liter, scream and point to the sky "look! and eagle!" and while he's looking, kick him really hard on the crutch, and then tell him "that's nothing compared to road rash... get a 250"


or something like that.

HAHAHAHHA... were you referencing that old salmon commercial?