So a buddy of mine rides a KLR and on his latest oil change the new oil was dirty after about 200 miles. any ideas why that might happen?

thanks, I know its not GS discussion but I told him I'd ask around.

Blowby?  Lots of residual oil that didn't drain during last change?  Elves?

-Turd.

I was thinking residual oil or elves.

whats blowby?

combustion by-products that get past the rings ......... oil dirty=doing it's job   

thats what I was thinking but 200 miles? should he just change every 200 or so until it starts to stay clean for longer?

Naw Just Keep going with the Oil thats in it.Just because the Oil Looks Dirty doesn't mean  it's Bad and Not Doing it's Job.Take a Diesel Tractor for Instance.If you pull the Drain Plug and let Absolutely Every Drop of oil Drain out and Flush the Motor Completely out with Diesel Fuel and then Pour Completely Clear oil in it.After you use  it for 3 Hours the Oil is going to be As Black as it was Before you Changed it.Of course I  am Comparing a Diesel Engine to a Gas Engine but it's still the Same Basic Principle as an Internal Combustion Engine.As Ajaxgs Says if it's Dirty it's Doing it's Job.
Also you can do More Damage to an Engine by Changing the Oil Too soon than not soon Enough.I have a Neighbor that Changed His oil in his Car and Truck Between 500-3000 Miles and Absolutely Trashed the Engines in Both of them.Yes I'm sure you think I'm full of shaZam! but it is the Truth.As a Engine RUns there are soo many Metal Molocules from the bearing Surfaces that Build up in the Oil to keep everything from Wearing out.When you Change the Oil within the 500-3000 Mile time frame you are Flushing out the Molocules causing Permature wear.
How do I know that It trashed out both of His Motors?Well I was the one Getting Paid to Trash them.He is a Dumb Ass and Kept telling me that he had over 5000 miles since the Last time I had Changed it.I started Keeping a Record of how many Miles his Vehicles had on them.His Car was a 92 Plymouth Sundance that he Bought New.the Last oil Change that I done before it Finally Quit Running was 60,000 Miles.His Truck which was a Late 80's Ford F150 with a 300 6cyl faired a little bit better and Actually got 120,000 miles on the first Engine and Close to 20,000 on a Low Mile Used Motor.
On the Other hand Right now I have a 90 Dodge Dakota with a 3.9L.I haven't treated it like $h!t but I have let the Oil Changes go from 8,000 to 10,000 on my last one.I'm the Fifth Owner and My cousin was the Second,My Uncle the Third and My Dad the Fourth.We have all Used the same Oil as the Other Guy Did in His 2 Vehicles.Only we Have Changed it at 7,000-10,000 Miles.Right Now the truck has 286,000 Miles on it and  still goes like it did from Day#1. :thumb:The rest of the Truck is Falling Apart though.

How many miles/hours are on the bike? Has it been sitting unused for a long time? If it's been sitting, it could be corrosion and congealed oil deposits that are being flushed out of the oil. In that case do a couple of oil changes and it should clear up. When changing the oil, drain it through a paint strainer with a magnet set in it and cut your filter open to inspect for chunks of crud.

No matter how many miles are on the bike, you should be able to get at least 1000 miles out of an oil change (unless you hardly ever ride it, then time would be more of a limitation than miles).

If it dosen't clear up after an oil change or two, then you could have an oil analysis done to see how bad it really is. If the oil is just dark with no chunks in it, it isn't too bad. You could run a diesel oil which has more detergents (chevron delo, shell rotela, etc) it will get just as dark but can handle it better

I don't know about the total miles or hours but I do know it doesn't sit and it is probably just a couple of weeks since the last change. he rides almost every day. I think i'll advise he do a change with a filter and magnet to see if there are any chunks in there and if not just ride with it. I don't know what brand of filter he uses but its a permanent one, its never supposed to need changing you just drain it I guess, maybe wipe it down. its made out of metal so he can't really cut it open.

I'd never heard anything like that story about ruining an engine by keeping new oil in it. I've always been told to change it early and often.


I guess we'll go with dirty = doing its job.

they guys that changes is oil every7k-10k your one lucky sob . your supose to change your oil every 3k plan and simple .. i use to work at a ford dealer so yea .. its supose to be done... you may get by with that now .. on them older cars but it wont happen on the newer ones .. oil is gonna be dirty yes .. but i dont think it sould after 200miles .. i put lucas and havolin in the 01 eclipse .. and after 5k it still looked good . if you friend really wants to try and change how dirty his oil looks . see if  there is a dealer around there that sales some motuel (i think thats how its spelled)  run that a time or two and see how it dose .. there was a guy that use to work at killeen powersports(honda suzk. dealer here in texas)  and he uses motul in his bikes .. says when you do the first oil change with it . it will be as black as diseal oil ( if you have not seen it its back as paint) but after that .. he changes it like every 2k and still looks new when he uses it .. i'd get it but i want to wait tell i buy a new cluch cuz i'v heard of some ill affects with switching oil types in the middle. and i'v ran one oil change on full semy. and the cluch slipage is a bit more then i liked .......

lucas the worst thing to use with oil

Quote from: FearedGS500 on October 19, 2006, 12:07:01 PM
they guys that changes is oil every7k-10k your one lucky sob . your supose to change your oil every 3k plan and simple .. i use to work at a ford dealer so yea .. its supose to be done... you may get by with that now .. on them older cars but it wont happen on the newer ones .. oil is gonna be dirty yes .. but i dont think it sould after 200miles .. i put lucas and havolin in the 01 eclipse .. and after 5k it still looked good . if you friend really wants to try and change how dirty his oil looks . see if  there is a dealer around there that sales some motuel (i think thats how its spelled)  run that a time or two and see how it dose .. there was a guy that use to work at killeen powersports(honda suzk. dealer here in texas)  and he uses motul in his bikes .. says when you do the first oil change with it . it will be as black as diseal oil ( if you have not seen it its back as paint) but after that .. he changes it like every 2k and still looks new when he uses it .. i'd get it but i want to wait tell i buy a new cluch cuz i'v heard of some ill affects with switching oil types in the middle. and i'v ran one oil change on full semy. and the cluch slipage is a bit more then i liked .......

Yes 3000 according to Dealer terms.I am Assuming that this is for cars that are still under Warranty.Also the Dealer Says 3000 miles because they are the Ones getting paid to Change the oil.Ford Etc. also  state this to Cover they're Ass in case something Goes Wrong.At anything Under 5000 Miles you are just dumping Good oil and Money down the Drain.Do I like to go to 10,000 Miles.No I don't usually 7000-7500 Tops.
Not trying to Argue Just My Opinion at what Has Worked for me in the Past.I've worked on just about anything that has Came Along from Cars and Trucks,Motorcycles,Farm Equipment,All brands of Lawn Equipment,Logging Equipment and even the occasional Road Tractor or Dump truck.

For new cars, usually it's more like 6,000 miles for normal driving and 3-4K for "severe" use. The waranty on my mom's new car just says that you have to have to follow the maintnance scedule, which says 6,000mi. The only reason some dealer warantys say 3,000 is just so that you think you have to bring the car back there to get serviced, but they can't require you to bring it to them for the service, it's illegal to require that.

But this KLR obviously isn't new or under waranty, so it dosn't matter

your right .. i forgot about the severe .. state of texas is concerted severe

For the definative answer get in touch with these people.
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/motorcycle.html.
The company I work for provide a similar service but for industrial applications. You will be amazed at what oil analysis can reveal.

nice link, whats the cost of something like that? I doubt if he'll go that route but still good to know.

Something Else I am Comparing Cars to Motorcycles.There's No way I would Let a Motorcycle Go as Far as a Car.Motorcycles do see Higher RPM's the Oil Also Bathes the Clutch and the Gear Cluster and see's much Higher Pressure on the Molecules.Being Air/Oil Cooled it also has a lot more Abuse than a Water cooled Engine.
And an Additive such as Lucas or STP would Probably be a Bad Mistake since it is So Thick.A buddy of mine Had a Suzuki DR200 one time that Smoked just a Little when he first started it up.Of course it was the Valves Seals but someone told him it was the rings and told him to add a Quarter of a Bottle of STP.He ran it a couple of Hours and After He parked it it really wasn't worth using for a Boat Anchor.

i dont use lucas in my bike . only in my car .

Quote from: Jughead on October 19, 2006, 11:03:08 AMAlso you can do More Damage to an Engine by Changing the Oil Too soon than not soon Enough.I have a Neighbor that Changed His oil in his Car and Truck Between 500-3000 Miles and Absolutely Trashed the Engines in Both of them.Yes I'm sure you think I'm full of shaZam! but it is the Truth.As a Engine RUns there are soo many Metal Molocules from the bearing Surfaces that Build up in the Oil to keep everything from Wearing out.When you Change the Oil within the 500-3000 Mile time frame you are Flushing out the Molocules causing Permature wear.

Where do you get this idea from?  Particulate contamination of lubricants is a leading cause of wear in all forms of machinery, including IC engines.

Quote from first article:

"Lubrication oil contamination is the primary cause of wear. From studies it has been shown
that the highest rates of engine/transmission component wear are due to contamination
by particles as small as or slightly larger than the oil film thickness between working parts.
These particles are known as 'clearance size' particles. Larger particles cause less wear
damage because they are unable to get into the clearance between the working parts.
A combination of water and particulate contamination results in oil oxidation, and increases
acid levels. Unless lubrication systems are well filtered they will continue to generate metallic
particles and increase wear rates still further. It follows that lubrication fluids function most
efficiently and last longer when water and clearance size particles are controlled."


http://www.risbridger.com/filtration.htm

http://www.maintenanceworld.com/Articles/noria/clean-oil-fuel-consumption-poa2.htm

http://www.maintenanceworld.com/Articles/reliabilityplant/Machines-Wear-Out.htm

http://www.natrib.com/publications/articles/1199white.php

Oil changes are important for several reasons.  Spin-on oil filters are incapable of controlling all clearance-sized particles, and dilution is relativly low due to the low sump capacity of road-going IC engines.  Additive packages degrade.  This changes the pH of the lubricant accelerates the rate of corrosion within the engine.  Failure of certain additives increases oil aeration and reduces film strength.  Even the base oil begins to oxidize, resulting in a loss of viscosity.  Carbon contamination is also detrimental to a lubricants ability to properly separate the moving elements of a machine.

Particulate oil contamination must be controlled, and replacement of the lubricating fluid on a regular basis is crucial to the life of a road-going internal combustion engine.  Changing the lubricant on a shorter than normal cycle DOES NOT cause premature wear.  Running old, contaminated oil does.

As to the original question...

"Dirty" is comparative.  If the oil was clean when poured in and the filter was changed at the time the oil was changed, then it is likely that the color is normal.  The new oil will mix with a slight amount of old oil left in the sump.  Some engine oils, especially recycled oils, have a dark appearance.  This is normal.  Is it possible the oil was changed but not the filter?  If it is a high-time engine I might point the finger at blow-by.  If it is a relatively low-time engine I would look for a rich mixture. 

Regardless, oil analysis is the only reliable way to determine what is going on.  For a small engine such as a car, truck, or motorcycle it's rarely worth the trouble.  An oil analysis program requires regular sampling and testing.  (Generally during an oil change.)  At $15- $20 a sample the cost adds up quickly.  It's cheaper to change the oil regularly and follow the manufacturer's maintenance instructions.  9 times out of 10 there will be no need for action, the engine will have a long life with no serious intervention.  Save the money you would have spent on expensive oil, oil analysis, and snake oil which *might* add 10% to the life of the engine for your overhaul kitty.

Interesting comments, however I must dissagree in part with the suggestion that oil analysis is not of any real benefit. It is true that a regular programme of sampling and reporting is required so that a trend can be established and monitored. We do a similar thing with large industrial gearboxes and compressers that can weigh several tons and have a very high capital value. However I feel a one-off analysis can prove to be a very good indicator as to the overall condition of the engine. A test often reveals potential fault conditions that could only be detected normaly by dismantling and inspecting and highlights issues before they become serious. You could look at it at being similar to a `Blood-Test` If I was buying a high value bike 2nd hand from a dubious source  I would have the oil tested as a one off without hesitation. In the link I posted there are some sample reports that make for interesting reading......along with prices!

Does his KLR have a dry sump?
If so, did he drain the tank, the sump and change the filter. 
I think there are some dry sump engines that have a couple of sump drains.

Missing any would carry over previous oil.