Quote from: vtlion on August 14, 2006, 08:59:09 PM

Quote from: AlphaFire X5 on August 14, 2006, 08:48:46 PM

This topic is still under debate isn't it?  I agree that whey is a safer choice in terms of clinical evidence, but I don't think that high dietary soy has been demonstrated to be harmful even in large quantities.  In fact, many asian cultures swear by it 

Yes, true. But look how short the Asians are. And look at their penises! 

Gee, you say that with such enthusiasm.  Do you really enjoy peeking at other men's penises that much?   Well, then, I've got just the link for you... 

http://www.academicintl.com/italy/gallery/florence5.jpg

No, that won't indulge your asian man fetish, but, this statue guy sure doesn't seem to have much...uh, swing.  Is that your typical white guy?    To be fair, though, that Michelangelo character was something of a homo and his ideal male creation probably had to be sized to fit his own butthole without ripping him a new one...literally.      Tofu had nothing to do with it!

Quote from: Blingmasta on August 14, 2006, 04:48:36 PM

Quote from: Onlypastrana199 on August 14, 2006, 02:17:47 PM
Are you trying to gain weight or  using it as a supplement? When I was trying to gain weight I'd take heavy cream, carnation instant breakfast, 1 cup peanutbutter, 1 banana, two scoops icecream and chocolate syrup and mix in a blender. I never had any chalky, clumpy grossness. 

Definitely gain weight. I was down to 152 and if I went under 150 I'd feel bad about myself.  Also as a supplement though, as I've started working out every day and also taking creatine. I'm not trying to get too big, 180-190, I just wanna be built. Also, I'm 5'10". So...there.

rofl im 5'10" myself but im diabetic as well, so no matter what i do i cannot gain wa\eight     

To the OP:

You can get special shaker mugs.  I got mine from BodyBuilding.com for like $2.00, my wife got one from GNC for about $5.  These special mugs have a round insert that goes over the top (but still inside the mug) that's kind of like a screen.  It helps break up the chunks as you shake the drink.  I only shake for about 30 seconds and I never have chunks.  I also use Optimum Nutrition Gold standard whey.  It includes lactase which can help you more efficently digest the protein (and cuts down on the protein farts).  It's also instantized, so it mixes better.

As for creatine, I wasn't aware of any studies that suggested negative effects on the size of your manhood or aggression.  Links?  Are you sure you're not thinking of steriods?  Creatine is a naturally occuring substance that our body makes about 1 g a day of.  Creatine supplimentation adds 3-5 g a day.  It also occurs in red meat, which may be one reason some people swear by eating it.  There also was no evidence of kidney damage linked with creatine, although some studies showed that those with pre-existing kidney damage found that creatine did aggravate the condition.  There are literally thousands of scientific studies supporting both the effectiveness and safety of creatine.  It has more research behind it than billion-dollar FDA approved prescription drugs.

Quote from: BaoQingTian on August 15, 2006, 03:46:35 PM
As for creatine, I wasn't aware of any studies that suggested negative effects on the size of your manhood or aggression.  Links?  Are you sure you're not thinking of steriods?  Creatine is a naturally occuring substance that our body makes about 1 g a day of.  Creatine supplimentation adds 3-5 g a day.  It also occurs in red meat, which may be one reason some people swear by eating it.  There also was no evidence of kidney damage linked with creatine, although some studies showed that those with pre-existing kidney damage found that creatine did aggravate the condition.  There are literally thousands of scientific studies supporting both the effectiveness and safety of creatine.  It has more research behind it than billion-dollar FDA approved prescription drugs.

No links, just info I was told from my nutritionalist friend. I also red up (but it was on WebMD, so reliable source?) that there wern't many long term studies done on it, only short term.

Put liquid in blender, turn on blender, pour protien powder and any other stuff in the liquid, add a few ice cubes for texture and your done...quick and easy. 


Chris

At this point I'm just wondering about what sort of weight and muscle gains I'll get in a couple months, I work out HARD HARD HARD 45 minutes a day, 3 protien shakes a day for a total of about 160 gs of protien just in the shakes and 2 creatine drinks a day as well. I'm hoping to  get back to 170 at least, if not more in 2 months. I'll be continuing afterwards, I'm jsut all about instant results as well tho..

And BTW. I've been doing this for a week and a half and I've already got a six pack. yippeeeee

Quote from: Blingmasta on August 15, 2006, 06:49:26 PM
And BTW. I've been doing this for a week and a half and I've already got a six pack. yippeeeee

I'd NEED a six pack or two to get through your workouts! 

Congrats on the fast progress already! 

Working hard and eating right beginners can see about 1 lb of lean body mass per week.  Patience, you must have.  It's easier to lose fat than gain muscle.

What kind of routine are you doing?  For starting out, I really recommend Mark Ripptoe's Starting Strength program.  His trainees pack on 20-40 lbs on muscle, on average, over 6 months time.  He suggests only compound lifts for the first 6 months to a year:

Workout A:
Squats: 3x5
bench press:3x5
Deadlifts: 1x5

Workout B:
Squats: 3x5
Standing Military Press: 3x5
Barbell Rows: 3x5

You alternate workouts on alternating days: Mon-A Wed-B Fri-A.  Add 5 lbs to each exercise each session. Eat like 3500 good calories a day- no ice cream, pizza and such crap. 

I have very little fat to lose, and already have average muscle mass. All the other times I worked out, I was put off by the lack of muscle I put on, so I quit after 2 or 3 months. I've already seen improvements in my physique after only about a week and a half. I'm having to work out at home because my gym is remodeling til Saturday, but I'm pretty happy with my routine already. I work back, then abs, then biceps, then whatever wrist curls work out, triceps, chest, shoulders, chest again, then the whole thing one more time. I just do reps will I can't do them anymore, which usually is about 20 for each thing. Right after I'm done, creatine, then in 30 minutes, protien shake. the whole workout takes about 40 minutes. I'm sweaty and my heart rate is way up there after I'm done, so I feel I'm doing well, and I'm sore a few hours after each workout. It's really all about muscle mass and total weight for me. I wasn't out of shape by any means when I started, but my entire life has been spent being a little smaller then the average guy. I just want to change that.

Also BTW, I would go more weight with less reps, but I'm maxing out with what I have at my disposal at my home. Once I get back to the gym, I'll go bigger weight with less reps, I know that's the right way to do it.

Oh you want the Ghey section, 2 doors to the left ...  ... Its a Common mistake, they wander in here all the time. I think its cos they think its GayStwin.com. Yea ... 
Cool.
Srinath.

Quote from: Blingmasta on August 14, 2006, 08:13:22 PM

Quote from: Blingmasta on August 14, 2006, 04:48:36 PM

Definitely gain weight. I was down to 152 and if I went under 150 I'd feel bad about myself.  Also as a supplement though, as I've started working out every day and also taking creatine. I'm not trying to get too big, 180-190, I just wanna be built. Also, I'm 5'10". So...there.

Yeah, I'm working out pretty hard, creatine, protein shakes, and I've just purchased two shakers, (one for protein one for creatine) and I'm currently drinking my first well shaken protein shake and it's MUCH more palatable than it was before. Thanks for all your advice everyone. And hey, after a couple months I'll report back with my results on here so we can all be amazed together!

In my opinion, the best way to get built if thats what you want to do, only requires 2 things.

1- Food(good diet, eat more if you thing you need it)
2- Dedication(time, work out, a lot)

if you eat enough and work out a lot that is all you need, the protein shakes and creatine will do NOTHING for you if you dont work out, food does the exact same thing and it tastes better, if youre getting enough fuel into you, then you will be gaining the fat and mass you need to turn into muscle. if you have extra weight on you, it is easy to turn into muscle, rather than a very skinny person needing to gain the weight and turn it into muscle.

I'm 6'0 and 210 lbs, 17yrs old.  i got this weight from simply eating, playing sports and working out, the sports insured that iwould not gain to much fat and that i will also keep my stamina up, plus i looooove all sports
With 45 minutes of workout a day, you really dont NEED the protein and creatine, it is jsut a supplement for food, all you need is fuel and working out,
i have also heard that creatine is pretty harsh, it can apparently give you all the sideaffects of steroids but on a toned down level, if i were you i would just eat a lot and work out a lot, goof luck

Quote from: ChaosGS500 on August 16, 2006, 07:04:36 PM
I'm 6'0 and 210 lbs, 17yrs old.  i got this weight from simply eating, playing sports and working out, the sports insured that iwould not gain to much fat and that i will also keep my stamina up, plus i looooove all sports

There's one more thing to factor in: genetics! 

I guess I'm not getting my point across to anyone here, which I guess i never should have brought up in the first place. I am eating alot, working out alot, taking creatine, protien shakes, all of it. I'm not just going to see how big I can get and then stop after a few months, I will continue for a long time. I just wanted results as quickly as possible. Thank you everyone for your help..

Quote from: ChaosGS500 on August 16, 2006, 07:04:36 PM

In my opinion, the best way to get built if thats what you want to do, only requires 2 things.

1- Food(good diet, eat more if you thing you need it)
2- Dedication(time, work out, a lot)

if you eat enough and work out a lot that is all you need, the protein shakes and creatine will do NOTHING for you if you dont work out, food does the exact same thing and it tastes better, if youre getting enough fuel into you, then you will be gaining the fat and mass you need to turn into muscle. if you have extra weight on you, it is easy to turn into muscle, rather than a very skinny person needing to gain the weight and turn it into muscle.

I'm 6'0 and 210 lbs, 17yrs old.  i got this weight from simply eating, playing sports and working out, the sports insured that iwould not gain to much fat and that i will also keep my stamina up, plus i looooove all sports
With 45 minutes of workout a day, you really dont NEED the protein and creatine, it is jsut a supplement for food, all you need is fuel and working out,
i have also heard that creatine is pretty harsh, it can apparently give you all the sideaffects of steroids but on a toned down level, if i were you i would just eat a lot and work out a lot, goof luck

Absolutely right on your two points, pretty wrong on the rest.  Creatine is not a steriod, or even close to one.  It is an amino acid.  There is about 2g of it in 1 lb of raw meat.  Your body makes a gram of it a day.  Therefore, someone who eats a steak and a couple burgers is going to have minor 'roid rage? Give me a break.

People keep saying "I heard" about creatine.  If it's dangerous, there should be some scientific studies proving so, so post them.  Here's some pertaining to its safety:

Kreider RB, Melton C, Rasmussen CJ, Greenwood M, Lancaster S, Cantler EC, Milnor P, Almada AL. Long-term creatine supplementation does not significantly affect clinical markers of health in athletes. Mol Cell Biochem. 2003 Feb;244(1-2):95-104.

Lehmkuhl M, Malone M, Justice B, Trone G, Pistilli E, Vinci D, Haff EE, Kilgore JL, Haff GG. The effects of 8 weeks of creatine monohydrate and glutamine supplementation on body composition and performance measures. J Strength Cond Res. 2003 Aug;17(3):425-38.

Groeneveld GJ, Beijer C, Veldink JH, Kalmijn S, Wokke JH, van den Berg LH.
"Few adverse effects of long-term creatine supplementation in a placebo-controlled trial."
Int J Sports Med. 2005 May;26(4):307-13]

Major Research Reviews Include: Gastelu, D, "Creatine Research Update 2005", Supplementfacts International LLC, 2005. Greeenhaff, PL. The nutritional biochemistry of creatine. J Nutr Biochem 1997;8:610-618. Juhn, MS and Tarnopolsky, M. Oral creatine supplementation and athletic performance: A critical review. Clin J Sport Med 1998;8:286-297. Kreider, RB, Leutholtz, BC and Greenwood, M. Creatine. In Nutritional Ergogenic Aids, CRC Press 2004:81-104. Lemon PW. Dietary creatine supplementation and exercise performance: why inconsistent results? Can J Appl Physiol. 2002 Dec;27(6):663-81. Persky, AM and Gayle, AB. Clinical pharmacology of the dietary supplement creatine monohydrate. Pharmacological Reviews. 2001;53:161-176. Turpin, AA, et al. Systematic and critical evaluation of benefits and possible risks of nutritional ergogenic aids. In Nutritional Ergogenic Aids, CRC Press 2004:469-504 Walker, JB. Creatine: biosynthesis, regulation and function. Adv Enzymol Relat Areas Mol Biol 1979;50:177-242 Williams, MH and Branch, JD. Creatine supplementation and exercise performance: An update. Journal of the American College of Nutrition 1998;17(3):216-234.

As for whey protein, not all proteins are created equal.  Whey contains protein that can be processed quicker and more efficiently than other proteins, for example cottage cheese.  First thing in the morning your body is in a semi-catabolic state, wanting to use its own muscle for energy.  The faster you can get nutrients where they count, the better.  Whey protein is optimal for this.  Same situation with a post-workout.  Other times, lean protein found in egg whites, chicken breasts, etc is great.  Lots of carbs and EFAs are necessary too.

The human body is a lot more complicated than saying, "Just eat a lot" makes it seem.  This is even more important for us guys that are not genetically inclined to put on muscle mass easily.  Putting the science in and the old wives tales out helps us actually progress.

Quick update: my weight has gone up to 171 from 152, and my bench has gone from 160 to 210. Still goin up tho.

If you want to be involved in weight lifting for a long time, pace yourself in regards to the amount of weight you add to your work-out. 

A few years ago, I was a hard-core gym rat, often lifting twice a day.  One of the things I learned to my dismay is that my muscles' capacity to handle the weight increased far faster than my joints' ability.  I let ego get in the way and wound up doing some damage to my shoulders and elbows.  Yes, I got large quickly, however my long-term ability to stay with the sport was compromised by my lack of sound judgement.

Take it slowly.  Your body will grow at its own pace.  I started seriously lifting at 17, but didn't begin to truly "bulk out" until my mid twenties.

Chilly

just FYI also

to getting your body weight in protein grams (170ish it sounds like) YOU NEED RECOVERY TIME!!!! THIS MEANS 8-10HOURS OF sleep and 1-2 days off from heavy lifting. Muscles have to recover and rebuild (this is where you build mass aka-bulk)

Creatine really is useless untless you take it before working out and using NO to supply the creatine. For the regular person that's over the top. I wouldn't suggest using either one unless your a college athlete already on sterioids and have nothing to loose, and or your profession is taking on the strongest man title.....

you should spend some time @ www.muscleandfitness.com and get a split routine going. If you over train you'll be tired all the time, you lose workout intensity (FYI the amount of sweet does not equal intensity level) and you generaly will reach a weight/strength plateau much sooner, in which case your muscles will need something new to be stimulated to. O yea also see www.prosource.net

I'm not certfied IFBB personal trainer but did work at a local gym during my freshman and sophmore years in college just never sat down and took the certification test but I did take a number of anatomy and health science classes

If your looking to buy supplements check out  www.dpsnutrition.net They have awesome deals 100x better than GNC.  They ship fast too, I ordered three day shipping and got my order the next day. btw, they don't pay me to say this, I'm just a happy customer. Especially after a GNC clerk started insulting me to try to get me to buy more stuff i didn't need

I've been doing creatine for two months now. I started the first month with creatine monohydrate - not much help. This past month I got creatine ethyl ester (CE2).  It absorbs much better than the other version and doesn't cause as much fat gain as the monohydrate version.  I also did a loading cycle (twice the normal reccommended dosage for a week) at the beginning of this month. Its helping, I don't fatigue as quickly and my gains are getting better. 

For whey protien I recommend Optimum Nutrition 100% whey. Its sold at GNC but you can get it at DPS cheaper.  Its cheap, it tastes great (really, just like chocolate milk), and it has come reccommended by a few of the trainers I've talked to.  I tried all kinds of nasty protien before, thick chalky junk. Finally a guy who was promoting sly stalones new fitness line was talking to me and said "off record, give this stuff a try, its not what I sell but its what I use and its as good as the stuff that costs twice as much."  I actually look forward to the shakes now.. mmmmm... protien.

Multivitamins are good too. Gotta have one of those.
Of course all of the supplements are worthless without enough rest and enough work and focus in the gym.