Thanks for all the good information. 

The clock was rounding 11 pm when I noticed that the torque wrench I had only went down to 10 ft/lbs. I need 35-53 in/lbs so I put the plates back in the jumbo zip lock baggy full of motor oil (10-40) and left it for the night. Today I called AutoZone for the Loan-a-Tool program but they only had ft/lbs so I bought a in/lbs torque wrench at a place called Habor Freight for $30.

The plates that came off the bike don't look to bad and I'll check them with a mic. The only noticeable difference between the new and the old is the old steel plates have pin sized dents in them with noticeable burn marks while the new have no pin pricks in them. The new friction plates have a half moon notched taken out of one of the tabs. The instrutions that came with it say nothing about nor does the Clymer manual. Not sure if I should align all of the notches or align them clock wise around the clutch hub?

So I'll tighten everything back down to spec, replace the gasket, and fill it back up with oil. We'll see if all of this helps.

Thanks. 

Quote from: NiceGuysFinishLast on November 26, 2006, 10:17:59 AM
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/clutch.htm

Wow thats a great site, thanks NGFL !

I thought this one is pretty cool too! 

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/rotary-engine1.htm     

No problem guys.. I love howstuffworks, always some entertaining reads..

Quote from: davidcl on November 26, 2006, 01:30:40 PM
So I'll tighten everything back down to spec, replace the gasket, and fill it back up with oil. We'll see if all of this helps.

Don't forget the related adjustments--not just the cable but also the screw/locknut clearance adjustment in the sprocket cover.  Without clearance, you won't have full clutch engagement.    

Quote from: Gisser on November 26, 2006, 06:07:16 PM
Don't forget the related adjustments--not just the cable but also the screw/locknut clearance adjustment in the sprocket cover.  Without clearance, you won't have full clutch engagement.    

Should I mess with all of that considering I never touched it nor do I know of anyone else touching it? I guess I could go over the needed (?) adjustments in the Clymer manual and make sure they are correct. I've never touched the cable and the screw/lock-nut clearance with the sprocket cover. I am also not sure those would go out of adjustment as the plates became smaller. Thanks for the heads up though.

In other news, I was all ready to put it back together but when I was tightening the bolts on the pressure plate I applied to much torque (not sure how that happened since I was using the right torque wrench) and one bolt snapped and one almost broke. Luckily I go the broken bolt out with little hassle. So tomorrow it is off to the hardware store, local bike shop, and/or Suzuki dealership to see if I can't pick up some new bolts. Otherwise, I'll have to order them off of Ron Ayers and wait a week. 

Thanks. 

Quote from: davidcl on November 26, 2006, 11:39:59 PM

Quote from: Gisser on November 26, 2006, 06:07:16 PM
Don't forget the related adjustments--not just the cable but also the screw/locknut clearance adjustment in the sprocket cover.  Without clearance, you won't have full clutch engagement.    

Should I mess with all of that considering I never touched it nor do I know of anyone else touching it? I've never touched the cable and the screw/lock-nut clearance with the sprocket cover. I am also not sure those would go out of adjustment as the plates became smaller. Thanks for the heads up though.

The clearance there is measured in the thousandths (inch).  There is no standardized factory setting.  It varies engine to engine. 

The adjustment is incredibly simple and just takes a few minutes.    You wouldn't want to risk burning up a new clutch.   

Quote from: davidcl on November 26, 2006, 11:39:59 PM

Quote from: Gisser on November 26, 2006, 06:07:16 PM
Don't forget the related adjustments--not just the cable but also the screw/locknut clearance adjustment in the sprocket cover.  Without clearance, you won't have full clutch engagement.    

Should I mess with all of that considering I never touched it nor do I know of anyone else touching it? I guess I could go over the needed (?) adjustments in the Clymer manual and make sure they are correct. I've never touched the cable and the screw/lock-nut clearance with the sprocket cover. I am also not sure those would go out of adjustment as the plates became smaller.

Are you kidding me? you replace the clutch without ever bothering to fiddle with its adjustment? You might well find that the only thing you needed to do is adjust clearance.

Be it as it may: after replacing the clutch you will have to go over that adjustment. It would be a rare coincidence if that were correct after the swap.

Quote from: MarkusN on November 27, 2006, 04:29:51 AM

Quote from: davidcl on November 26, 2006, 11:39:59 PM

Quote from: Gisser on November 26, 2006, 06:07:16 PM
Don't forget the related adjustments--not just the cable but also the screw/locknut clearance adjustment in the sprocket cover.  Without clearance, you won't have full clutch engagement.    

Should I mess with all of that considering I never touched it nor do I know of anyone else touching it? I guess I could go over the needed (?) adjustments in the Clymer manual and make sure they are correct. I've never touched the cable and the screw/lock-nut clearance with the sprocket cover. I am also not sure those would go out of adjustment as the plates became smaller.

Are you kidding me? you replace the clutch without ever bothering to fiddle with its adjustment? You might well find that the only thing you needed to do is adjust clearance.

Be it as it may: after replacing the clutch you will have to go over that adjustment. It would be a rare coincidence if that were correct after the swap.

Its a 1990 GS500(bought used I'm sure), I don't think David ever said how many miles are on it, but there's a lot of things that I would be replacing for piece of mind, and for the learning experience.

The saga continues... Bought stainless steel bolts to replace the broken bolts (the bolt is 6X40 STD thread for anyone who needs that information). Went to torque the bolts down again at 35-53 in/lbs and broke a bolt again.  So I no longer used the torque wrench and tightened the bolts to where I felt they were secured tightly. I had a feeling for this after snapping two.

My second snag was that when I went to put back on the signal generator I could not align the rotor with the alignment pin...because it was gone. When I removed it previously I did not see a very small pin nor did it talk about it in the removal procedure. Anyway, do I need this pin for the signal generator to function properly or is its purpose to help in getting the alignment correct? Wanting to finish, I put the signal generator on anyway but used a pen and made a mark on the signal generator (where the pin should stick out) and made a mark on the rotor.

And my third snag was that I did indeed need to adjust the clutch cable, as it was very loose. I read over the procedure in the Clymer manual and it seemed easy enough. The only problem is I can not get at the clutch release cap. The horrible Phillips screws are stuck and the heads want to strip, easy. A) Can I adjust the clutch by taking the sprocket cover off and getting at it that way and B) what tips, tricks, or advice do you have to get that cap off. The only thing I can think of is have a machine shop drill and tap the holes, but maybe you have a better method.

To recap: do I need the alignment pin if I aligned the rotor correctly, how do i adjust the clutch cable with out being able to get the cap off, and do you have a method for getting the Phillips screws out? 

I've provided pictures for more clarity about what I'm talking about.





Thanks for any help that you can provide. Greatly appreciated. This is starting to become frustrating. 

Oh, FYI, the bike has > 24,000 miles on the clock.

Quote from: davidcl on November 28, 2006, 06:11:35 PM
A) Can I adjust the clutch by taking the sprocket cover off and getting at it that way and B) what tips, tricks, or advice do you have to get that cap off. The only thing I can think of is have a machine shop drill and tap the holes, but maybe you have a better method.

No, the sprocket cover has to be on and screwed down to set the actuator clearance.  No other way.  I take it you didn't use an impact driver when attempting to remove the plate screws?   It's probably not too late as an impact driver can remove screws in pretty poor condition.  If you work on your bike you need one so if you don't have one get one (< $10 @ Walmart).  As for drilling, only the screw heads would have to come off and no tapping.   

There are three points where you can adjust clutch free play:

The knurled screw up at the clutch lever under the rubber boot.
At the end of the clutch cable sleeve at the sprocket cover (the adjuster with the counter nut)
Behind that cover with the two phillips screws.

They basically all do the same: The move the position of the clutch pressure plate relative to the clutch handle movement. So if you can't open the clutch adjuster cover, just adjust at one of the other two points.

Did you have the clutch actuator screw out of its nut? Thats the part on the inside of the two-phillips-head cover. If you inserted it in the wrong thread (it is multi threaded) its position can be way off.

Quote from: MarkusN on November 29, 2006, 09:07:15 AM
There are three points where you can adjust clutch free play:

The knurled screw up at the clutch lever under the rubber boot.
At the end of the clutch cable sleeve at the sprocket cover (the adjuster with the counter nut)
Behind that cover with the two phillips screws.

They basically all do the same: The move the position of the clutch pressure plate relative to the clutch handle movement. So if you can't open the clutch adjuster cover, just adjust at one of the other two points.

This is not quite right.  The screw/locknut behind the phillips screw plate sets the pushrod and actuator clearance independent of the cable.  If there's no clearance at this juncture then slack in the cable won't help. 

Quick tutorial: Loosen locknut...back out screw a couple turns...turn screw back in until resistence is felt then back off 1/4 turn and secure adjustment with locknut.   

Amazing the OP could break bolts with 50 inch lbs.  Are you reading that torque wrench right?   

Um yeah, 50 inch pounds is like 4 foot pounds.  Hope you weren't going for 50 foot pounds or you're lucky to have a clutch basket still.

regarding torque:

Since I tighten all my bolts by hand, I try to make them "tight, and then some". Do the lbs. numbers correlate roughly to the amount of force necessary to lift that amount of weight?

i.e., 35 lbs torque = 35 lbs weight lifted? Obviously this is guesstimating by hand, but that's what I sort of envision as I'm wrenching them down.

I wish I was reading it wrong.  I did have a torque wrench in the shop before I started but the project was put off because the torque wrench (very long) went from 20 ft/lbs to ?. So I went out and got a in/lbs torque wrench (very short). Maybe it's cheap (it was $30). I read the entire directions and I am sure that it doesn't take much skill to set and operate. Also, it says inch pounds right on the handle so no mistaking it. And I broke the bolts at 40 in/lbs.

I will use an impact wrench. I have a large metal one shaped like a gun that I use to take the lug nuts off my truck. Maybe this is overkill. I was using an air ratchet with 50 ft/lbs breaking power, but this did not work. If I drill and remove the head I'll have to use a left handed drill bit to get the threads out correct? I guess this is an easy out kit. Although, I don't have great luck with these as they are hardened steel, very brittle, and seem to break easy making it impossible to drill out.

Anyone have any comments on the signal generator rotor pin?

Also, it is interesting that you mentioned that. I did in fact take the sprocket cover off and did remove the two Phillips screws and did take the actuator out of it's nut. The nut has ball lined threads. I don't remember how it was. The flange that holds the nut has a lip on one side. The nut has one folded tab on one side and four or three folded tabs on the other side. I put the side with the lip and three or four folded tab into the hole (I put it in facing the stuck cap cover). The flange also has a small side and a big side (it's off set). Since it can be screwed in both ways, does the big side face the front of the bike (if the cover is installed) or the back (if the cover is installed)? I did notice that when you pull on the handle the actuator screws out from the nut and looks like it presses on a small protruding rod out of the crankcase. Pushing on this rod disengages the clutch? Since I don't remember how the flange should be attached it also makes it difficult to determine how the actuator should be screwed in or what angle or level it should sit at installed. Is there a guide to this?

Thanks. 

Quote from: davidcl on November 29, 2006, 06:21:33 PM
I will use an impact wrench. I have a large metal one shaped like a gun that I use to take the lug nuts off my truck. Maybe this is overkill. I was using an air ratchet with 50 ft/lbs breaking power, but this did not work.

  What we have here is a failure to communicate.  Impact driver:
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_36882_36882

Quote
If I drill and remove the head I'll have to use a left handed drill bit to get the threads out correct?

Hopefully, once the heads are off the cover plate can be removed and the screw threads removed with pliers.  Oops, those screw heads are countersunk, there may not be much thread left to grab.  Impact driver first.

QuoteAnyone have any comments on the signal generator rotor pin?

A temporary solution until another pin can be had.  It may slip if you rotate the crank using the hex nut and the governor will then be out of position.

QuoteThe nut has one folded tab on one side and four or three folded tabs on the other side. I put the side with the lip and three or four folded tab into the hole (I put it in facing the stuck cap cover).

Looks right.  The adjusting screw threads into one side and that should be self evident.

QuoteThe flange also has a small side and a big side (it's off set). Since it can be screwed in both ways, does the big side face the front of the bike (if the cover is installed) or the back (if the cover is installed)?

There's a reason for everything.  You'll figure it out. 

What kind of oil are you using?

Quote from: Gisser on November 29, 2006, 02:41:02 PM This is not quite right.  The screw/locknut behind the phillips screw plate sets the pushrod and actuator clearance independent of the cable.  If there's no clearance at this juncture then slack in the cable won't help. 

Quick tutorial: Loosen locknut...back out screw a couple turns...turn screw back in until resistence is felt then back off 1/4 turn and secure adjustment with locknut.   

True, didn't think of that. However, I never had the need to adjust at that point, but with the cutch wearing down the need may arise.

I am using 10W-40.

OK, glad we cleared that up. I will use an impact driver. 

I'll order the pin and replace it as soon as possible. If the rotor does become malaligned I assume the tachometer will give a false reading?

Quote from: davidcl on November 30, 2006, 06:34:15 AMI'll order the pin and replace it as soon as possible. If the rotor does become malaligned I assume the tachometer will give a false reading?

Nope, ignition timing will be off. (Not a good thing. In fact, a quite bad thing.)