Ever since I painted the frame of my motorcycle, I have noticed that over time bits and pieces of the electrical system have stopped working.  I went back and checked each and every wire to make sure that they were hooked up correctly.  I'll list off the various parts that don't work

Rear brake does not stay light
Rear brake does not light up during braking (the left but not the right light USED to though)
Speedometer does not light up (Used to as well)
Tachometer does not light up
Turn signals do not work when indicated or in P mode nor does the indicator light

Now the weird thing is that the following things do work

horn
ignition/starter/spark plugs/etc
headlight and highbeam
high beam indicator light
oil press light
neural light

so my first thought was that there is not a good ground becasue of the painted frame BUT the ground goes to the engine AND all that other stuff works.  I know that the bulbs arent dead because I hooked the turn signal up to the auxilary line and they lit up fine.  Any thoughts as to whats going on???

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f191/eimoytiana/wire.jpg

*edit**Changed to linky

Rear brake, speedo, tach and turn signals only have on thing in common.

  The ground. shown as predominantly black with white squares in the diagram.

I suggest you pull a bulb and see if you have 12V present.  if so, check your ground with an ohm meter for continuity.

If an open ground is found, follow the ground wire until you find the break. Use the ohm meter at different points until you find a point where you have a good connection to ground.

Most likely you have a bad or poor connection at a plug, that junctions the rear brake, speedo, tach and turn signals.

I recently repainted one of my GS's and went through this dilemma. Fortunatly for me I am a trained Electrical tech for the Army.

okay that makes a good amount of sense to me, but I'm not too sure what you mean specifically.  When you say to see if you have 12V present, how would I go about doing that.  I'm assuming I need some sort of meter here but I do not know how to physically do the measurement

could it also be possible to create a new ground, say run a wire from the negative terminal of the batter to the frame of the bike or engine.  Would that be unsafe?

Sorry,  I'm no trained tech here...

going over the schematic, and your posted symptoms, I think your best course of action would be to remove your headlight and double check all those connectors.

If you can determine whether you lost your 12v or your ground at your rear brakes, speedo, tach and turn signals. We can get a better understanding of what your problem is.

TO measure your 12V you will need a Voltmeter.  Any Multimeter can read volts and ohms.  You can purchase cheap multimeters from any autoparts store or Walmart. $10

you don't *need* a multimeter. 

You can run a wire from the battery (NEG) to your turn signal.  Remove the cover to access the bulb.  Leave the bulb in place. the cyclindrical case the bulb screws into is your ground. Touch this case with the ground wire you ran from your battery. If the bulb lights up, then you will know for sure that you have 12v present and are missing your ground.

Before you do anything, remove your headlight and double check all those connections.

Missing or sketchy grounds are very common and very frustrating to deal with.  You will love yourself if you buy a cheap multimeter for this issue.

good luck.

Quote from: 3imo on January 12, 2007, 01:41:53 PM


Missing or sketchy grounds are very common and very frustrating to deal with.  You will love yourself if you buy a cheap multimeter for this issue.

good luck.

+1 A simple line tester works wonders too.  Both are must haves when dealing with vehicles.  If you don't know how to use a multimeter, google it, and you'll find some good how to's.

http://www.doctronics.co.uk/meter.htm

http://www.acmehowto.com/howto/homemaintenance/electrical/multitesteruse2.php

http://www.bobvila.com/HowTo_Library/Testing_with_a_Multimeter-Electrical_Tools-F2240.html


Google is the shizznit. Fo rizzle my nizzle.

rrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, so I stepped outside to go try to do the things 3imo said...and lo and behold my bike has been knocked over, which really sucks.  10 months of riding and I have yet to drop it even once, and then it is knocked over while I sleep.  Luckily it fell onto the grass in the sidewalk and the only thing that really hit the curb was the engine, chipping a few fins off.  The tank, frame, and plastics are all 100% still...just a little mud in the handlebars.




Okay, here is what I did.  I removed the cover over the turn signal ran a wire to from the neg terminal to the "thing you screw the bulb into" and it didnt light up in either P mode or if the turn signals were activated

I then removed the headlight and double checked the wires.  I removed the neg wire for the turn signal and connected that to the wire from the neg terminal from the battery again with no results.

I then took the positive lead from the turn signal, connected that to the positive aux lead and connected the negative lead from the turn signal to the wire that I ran from the neg terminal of the battery.  This caused the light to turn on.

I kept the positive auxilary and turn signal leads connected but moved the neg lead from the turn signal back to where it came from in the headlight and the light still worked.  So it seems that the ground IS working that the turn signals etc are connected to, but the + wire is not providing any voltage (i think???).

Oh and I also bought a cheap multimeter from radioshack...when you say "
If you can determine whether you lost your 12v or your ground at your rear brakes, speedo, tach and turn signals. We can get a better understanding of what your problem is."

from what i gathered from the links, if the circuit is closed, the resistance will change from infinity to zero, correct?

Quote from: vsboxerboy on January 14, 2007, 02:05:58 PM...from what i gathered from the links, if the circuit is closed, the resistance will change from infinity to zero, correct?

Yes.

Is your cheap meter a digital type or needle-scale type?

Geez we need to make that schematic above smaller.
3imo, dude can you make a link to it rather than the whole thing?

I guess we really need  thumbnail of it to act as the link path.
Kerry may already have that on his site.  

okay so update, feel pretty stupid saying this but as it turns out, the rear lights were burnt out, yes both of them.  I replaced them and they work both with the key turned and under braking as well.  However, the turn signals and the gauge lights still do not work.  I checked the turn signal lights including the back ones and they are all in working condition.  I have not checked the gauge lights to see if they are burnt out or not.  On a random side note, the speedometer stopped physically working, although I'm sure thats a completely unrelated coincidence for another thread and another day.

oh and the multimeter is the cheap digital type, i think its a little too cheap to the point of being a POS, but i'm not sure.

Ok, turns signals we've got cold. Here' a link to a TS thread CLICK HERE.

Scan down the page and John Bates had a great idea for checking the TS relay.

For a simplified schematic of the turn signal circuit, here's mine

Your gauge lamps are fed out of the area behind the headlight. I have a simplified light schematic also.
...

Also check out THIS THREAD for an experience similar to yours
had by red_phil.

As for the speedo cable...it is not electric. Check the mechanical connection at the wheel and the speedo itself.
You may have not tightend it up or it broke while working with the gauge section.

Quote from: vsboxerboy on January 14, 2007, 01:53:47 PM
  So it seems that the ground IS working that the turn signals etc are connected to, but the + wire is not providing any voltage (i think???).

Follow Starwalts schematic. Follow the 12V from the battery through the Turn Signal Relay and you should find your bug.  My money is on the relay.I am sure there is a How-too on rebuilding the TSR somewhere, but if your having trouble with a Multimeter, you might want to stay away from a soldering Iron.

Mental note: I should do a write up on how to check the relay, sometime.

Quote from: starwalt on January 14, 2007, 02:25:27 PM
Geez we need to make that schematic above smaller.
3imo, dude can you make a link to it rather than the whole thing?

I guess we really need  thumbnail of it to act as the link path.
Kerry may already have that on his site.  

Fixed!!  Thanks for chiming in Buddy 

Okay, so update time...I used a piece of wire to bridge the connection that should have been going to the TSR, this caused the turn signals to light up, but obviously not flash.  The turn signal indicator as well light up on the dash.  So I'm assuming this means that my TSR is bad and needs to be replaced.

I would be able to check that with the multimeter though if it wasn't such a piece of crap.  If the two probes aren't touching anything, it reads a resistance of 0.000, if i touch them together it reads 0.000 and if I run them through a circuit I know is closed, it still reads 0.000.  Not a doctor, but i think something is wrong with that.

edit:  wow does a TSR really cost $35?!?

20-1: RELAY ASSY,TURN
[RELAY ASSY,TURN]                    495879-001                             $35.10

images stolen from Starwalts site.



It may be possible to repair the TSR yourself.  Wouldn't hurt to give it a shot.  Try cleaning the contacts with emory cloth or a superfine grit sandpaper



Schematic courtesy of Starwalt as well. 

as it turns out, the fuse in my multimeter had blown, which is why I was having so many problems (durrr).  So now I am getting a reading from the TSR itself.  I'll try using wire to connect the TSR to the bike instead of plugging it in and if that doesnt work, I guess the TSR will go under the knife.

Yeah, that TSR is a piece of electronic voodoo.

Notice that the relay is ON (closed contacts) when you put power to it. It turns off (contacts open) as part of the charge-discharge cycle. The fact that your lights do not come on suggests what my pics show, the contacts are dirty (carbon/arced) and need cleaning.

It is a very old school way of doing it and it seems to have been replaced by the electronic type as mentioned in another thread CLICK HERE.

Drop down about 3/4 of the page to see my comments and some links to the new style relay. You can go with a Warner, but I think it is round and requires ty-wraps instead of the rubber boot holder. (One day I am going to find Kerry's how-to that shows how to display just the reply post so that you don't have to scroll through the thread -- I saw it long ago.)

3imo - I may nick the Haynes print and reduce it to small enough to use as a thumbnail.
Linking sure made reading the thread easier.  Thank you! 

Geez, I had forgotten how fuzzy those were!

Your pics are fuzzy, but I think they are priceless.  I know I have said it before but your site is a wealth of information even without any write ups.
I have another GS rebuild scheduled sometime real soon. I hope to compile a huge collection of detail pictures, and post them up in the wiki.

Starwalt?
I am I right in adding that when cleaning the contacts its vital to remove as little as possible from the contact face. Some switch contacts generaly have a conductive coating on them that prolongs their life. If to much is taken off there is a risk of this thin coated surface being removed and the arc generated when the contacts open/close causing the base metal  to "weld" together.
This is a common practise when overhauling high-voltage AC and DC switchgear. Ok the bike system is only 12v but the contacts are tiny and it is DC which means a stronger spark than AC